U.S. Women [#1]: The Contenders Unmask Themselves

[ЭPiKUilyam]

Maybe Gracie is enjoying the accomplishment of just being there. She doesn't owe anybody a happy face while she's skating.

Well, looking sullen and miserable isn't quite the expression I expect from someone who "is enjoying the accomplishment of just being there". YMMV. And I don't want some slapped on fake smile either. You don't have to be all smiles and sunshine all the time. I'm not, to say the least, because I can't stand phoniness. No one is saying Gracie needs to be all sunshine and smiles. Just show that maybe she isn't torturing herself each time she goes out there?

 

[overedge]

@ErikWilliam If you don't like her facial expressions while she is skating, nobody is forcing you to watch her.

 

[ЭPiKUilyam]

@ErikWilliam If you don't like her facial expressions while she is skating, nobody is forcing you to watch her.

Which is why I try not to. No one forces me to do anything. Anywhere. Anytime. Please do not ever think I feel "forced" to do anything. Mmkay? Thx. And besides, making snide sarcastic comments like you are just because my opinion is not positive only brings down the discussion level here. I know you are better than that. Be better.

 

[overedge]

@ErikWilliam Get off your high horse. If you make comments, expect to get responses to them.

 

[ЭPiKUilyam]

Thanks Over. I don't think it helps a discussion to be an AH. If someone here says "Anna's dead/lazy free foot bothers me and needs improvement" I'd say the same thing to you if you told them: "You don't have to watch Anna skate. No one is forcing you." That sounds like what a total AH would say, since it doesn't advance the subject matter, and it only shows your ability to be petty. Think about it. I like your posts. Most of them.

With that, I'm out. Over!

 

[Holy Headband]

I agree, but here's why. Imagine Alysa is more than 30 points ahead of the 7th place person after the SP. She decides to go for the 3axel since she has really nothing to lose, and has a terrible fall where she cuts herself badly and then has to withdraw. Ooops, no one counted on that... Now the US only has two spots and for what? An unnecessary attempt on a difficult element? So I agree with Vag. If she fails at Nebelhorn, she hurts the US team and not just herself. Just for this competition I want her to play ultra-safe (Ultra-S, maybe? lol). Let's get that third spot first, and then look ahead to the Olympic team and 3axel to her heart's content.

She could fall and hurt herself while attempting any number of jumps, but that’s not a reason not to include them in her programs.

It’s a triple Axel FFS, not a quad Axel. She underrotates it slightly; it’s not like she does a Pogosplat every time she tries it. It’s an element in development for her, and as someone else said, treating it as this big scary thing that should only be unleashed under special circumstances will just mess with the skater’s mind. It’s much better to incorporate it into her repertoire as early as possible. I think advising her to the contrary would be to underestimate her.

The risk of Liu getting a season-threatening injury or losing an Olympic spot at Nebelhorn because of an unsuccessful 3A is frankly a paranoid fantasy.

 

[ЭPiKUilyam]

She could fall and hurt herself while attempting any number of jumps, but that’s not a reason not to include them in her programs.

It’s a triple Axel FFS, not a quad Axel. She underrotates it slightly; it’s not like she does a Pogosplat every time she tries it. It’s an element in development for her, and as someone else said, treating it as this big scary thing that should only be unleashed under special circumstances will just mess with the skater’s mind. It’s much better to incorporate it into her repertoire as early as possible. I think advising her to the contrary would be to underestimate her.

The risk of Liu getting a season-threatening injury or losing an Olympic spot at Nebelhorn because of an unsuccessful 3A is frankly a paranoid fantasy.

I'm not a risk taker, what can I say. Alysa does not need the 3a for this competition. And if the third Olympic spot was not on the line I'd say go for it. But that third spot IS on the line. And how stupid would everyone feel if she went for it and cut herself or sprained her ankle or WHATEVER and couldn't continue? The 3a is her only unreliable jump. Why risk that third spot on something you don't need. I wouldn't even want her practicing it there. I'm not saying she might get a career threatening injury. I'm only thinking about this one competition. So, I say she shouldn't risk it. Anything could suddenly happen and change. It's not paranoid fantasy, it's assessing risk/benefit and having a sound gameplan. Highly successful people I know assess risk/benefits, prepare for the unexpected, and avoid unnecessary risk. I don't call them paranoid. I call them prepared. I also would have one or two extra Americans being there just in case a surprise poz Covid test happens. But I suppose you think that is also a "paranoid fantasy"? Whatevs, you do you.

 

[Coco]

Many of us have been posting about the US taking alternates for Nebelhorn to Europe, so go stoke your drama elsewhere

If she's feeling good and warms up well, go for it. She may pop her 6th or 7th pass, in which case she'll really need that extra ~5 points from the 3a attempt.

 

[ЭPiKUilyam]

No drama here. I think it's funny though, if someone is cautious they are labeled paranoid and bringing drama. Hmm. I've done well for myself, and the main reason was my sound judgment. So laugh at me all you want. I really do not care. I'm living the best life. Due to my sound judgment.

 

[VGThuy]

I just hope that the commentators set controlled expectations for the American women. American audiences need to understand what the competition truly consists of and the Ladies field is simply much more competitive than it was during America's days of dominance from the 1950s-1990s, and that the Russians have technical jumps that are a few generations ahead of the most of the rest of the field at the moment.

 

[sheetz]

My guess (hope?) is that USFS has already told both Alysa and Vincent what strategy each should adopt and that both will follow their instructions to the best of their abilities.

 

[tony]

My guess (hope?) is that USFS has already told both Alysa and Vincent what strategy each should adopt and that both will follow their instructions to the best of their abilities.

I doubt the USFS is doing that as opposed to their coaching teams (that see their skating daily) making the calls.

Alysa could double or << half of the triples throughout the competition and likely still qualify. But what good does that do her? They are getting her out there for many international assignments already this season, and to suddenly water everything down doesn't make much sense to me.

Vincent is in a similar boat. Obviously he's not the most consistent, but luckily for him, he doesn't have to deal with a SP cut-off.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Just returned back home to LA, what’s going on in this thread? What’s happening? what did I miss? Where is Amber Glenn?

 

[Sylvia]

ANL, I've mentioned Amber twice in this thread recently :

You saw that Amber got her ISU Challenger assignment, right?

I've seen glimpses of Karen, Amber & Mariah at the NBC/Team USA Winter Olympics promo shoot in Irvine, California this weekend (assume Bradie is there too and that Alysa will get her own session after she returns home from Europe).

Karen shared one photo from the shoot: https://www.instagram.com/p/CTus1NFpBVt/
Mariah (also Nathan & Vincent): https://twitter.com/TeamUSA/status/1437912409600143362

I believe Amber also worked with her choreographer Misha Ge when she was out in LA.

Upcoming U.S. women's assignments before Skate America (listed on USFS' International Assignments page as of Sept. 10):

CS Autumn Classic International in Pierrefonds QC Canada (Sept. 16-18): Karen Chen, Starr Andrews
U.S. Classic in Norwood, MA (Senior B, Sept. 15-18): Gabriella Izzo, Paige Rydberg, Sierra Venetta (ETA) and Maxine Marie Bautista (added 8/27)
JGP #4 in Krasnoyarsk, Russia (Sept. 15-18): Kate Wang, Maryn Pierce (her JGP debut)

CS Nebelhorn Trophy in Oberstdorf, Germany (Sept. 21-25): Alysa Liu
JGP #5 in Ljubjlana, Slovenia (Sept. 22-25): Lindsay Thorngren, Ava Ziegler

JGP #6 Gdansk, Poland (Sept. 29-Oct. 2): Clare Seo, TBA

CS Finlandia Trophy in Espoo, Finland (Oct. 6-9): Karen Chen, Amber Glenn
JGP #7 in Linz, Austria (Oct. 6-9): Isabeau Levito, TBA

CS Asian Open Trophy in Beijing/Olympic test event (Oct. 13-17): Mariah Bell, Gabriella Izzo

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

ANL, I've mentioned Amber twice in this thread recently :

I believe Amber also worked with her choreographer Misha Ge when she was out in LA.

Are you trying to tell me Amber Glenn was here in my hometown and did not alert me so I can go Incognito and play the role as a figure skating spectator?

 

[Coco]

@ErikWilliam I didn't "label you." I was referring to your own statements accusing others of thinking you were paranoid.

 

[Frau Muller]

I just hope that the commentators set controlled expectations for the American women. American audiences need to understand what the competition truly consists of and the Ladies field is simply much more competitive than it was during America's days of dominance from the 1950s-1990s, and that the Russians have technical jumps that are a few generations ahead of the most of the rest of the field at the moment.

I agree but you know that NBC marketing will be casting Alysa Liu as “Going for the Gold!” because the idiotic general public won’t tune into “Go for 5th Place!”

 

[gkelly]

I agree but you know that NBC marketing will be casting Alysa Liu as “Going for the Gold!” because the idiotic general public won’t tune into “Go for 5th Place!”

They could split the difference and say "Aiming for a medal."

 

[Coco]

Which would be the US' first in this discipline since 2006.

4th in 2010, 2014...9th in 2018.

Looks quite stark when you see it in print!

 

[Frau Muller]

They could split the difference and say "Aiming for a medal."

Unfortunately, even that statement may be unrealistic but there’s always hope. Quirky things tend to happen at Olympics. Miracles can happen.

At least Alysa has two great programs, highly-improved PCS, and decent tech, including an ultra-C element, giving her a fighting chance to place well with three Russians, 2-3 Japanese and a Korean or two in the mix. Just to land in the final flight in Beijing would be a huge accomplishment.

 

[baramin]

Top 6 at the Olymics is always a great achievement, but if Liu is scoring like this so early in the season without her hardest jumps, she certainly has a shot at the podium. Liu is already competitive with the non-Russians, and there’s only ever 3 Russians at a competition. Despite their marks, the Russian ladies didn’t skate unbeatably at worlds last year, and it’s a lot harder to sweep the Olys than it is worlds—especially since Russia is also trying for gold in ice dance & pairs, spreading their politicking thin, and none of the Russians will have Oly experience and the event pressure gets to a lot of skaters. I wouldn’t be surprised to see whichever of the Japanese, US, or other top tier ladies has the best competition sneak in for at least a bronze.

 

[Maximillian]

Which would be the US' first in this discipline since 2006.

4th in 2010, 2014...9th in 2018.

Looks quite start when you see it in print!

They also might want to mention that only ONE U.S. lady has medaled at ONE Worlds since 2007.

 

[VGThuy]

Yeah, we’ve been paying for Kimmie Meissner’s world title for a long time.

 

[Sylvia]

Fan Zone article on Josephine Lee, 13, who made her JGP debut in Courchevel #2 and is scheduled to compete in the Junior Ladies event at the U.S. Challenge Skate (domestic invitational for novices & juniors being held in conjunction with the U.S. International Classic Senior B in Norwood, Mass.):

Josephine Lee: Ready for New Challenges - U.S. Figure Skating Fan Zone

Figure skating can be described in a variety of ways. To some, it is a sport. It's an avenue of growth, and the adversity that inevitably presents itself on the

usfigureskatingfanzone.com

 

[Bulletsdad]

Top 6 at the Olymics is always a great achievement, but if Liu is scoring like this so early in the season without her hardest jumps, she certainly has a shot at the podium. Liu is already competitive with the non-Russians, and there’s only ever 3 Russians at a competition. Despite their marks, the Russian ladies didn’t skate unbeatably at worlds last year, and it’s a lot harder to sweep the Olys than it is worlds—especially since Russia is also trying for gold in ice dance & pairs, spreading their politicking thin, and none of the Russians will have Oly experience and the event pressure gets to a lot of skaters. I wouldn’t be surprised to see whichever of the Japanese, US, or other top tier ladies has the best competition sneak in for at least a bronze.

I agree. Also, Alysa is training the 4Lz as we saw from her Instagram story a few months back. The 4Lz and 3A could get her on podium even if all the Russians skate clean.

 

[Lemonade20]

They also might want to mention that only ONE U.S. lady has medaled at ONE Worlds since 2007.

Has it really been that long?!? Wow!

 

[Maximillian]

Has it really been that long?!? Wow!

Crazy, right? I think because there have been quite a few 4th places during those years it feels like there should be more podium finishes than just one.

 

[olympic]

Crazy, right? I think because there have been quite a few 4th places during those years it feels like there should be more podium finishes than just one.

2008 - A bunch of ineligible Juniors and Kimmie’s body betrayal = no US medal

2009 - Flatt was never going to be higher than 5th, and Czisny 1.0 was never going to stay vertical

2010 - But for a bad 2A, Nagasu would’ve medaled, despite other disastrous jumping passes

2011 - But for a fall, Czisny 2.0 would’ve snagged bronze

2012 - But for the typical SP screw-ups, Wagner would’ve been fighting for a bronze

2013 - Eh. Yu Na was back and Mao was in good shape again. Wagner would not have been higher than 4th

2014 - Gracie just couldn’t deliver the LP but I don’t know if she would’ve medaled. Mao, Carolina and Yulia were high scoring

2015 - Field wide open with Yu Na, Adelina, Carolina and Yulia out of the picture, but Wagner screwed up the SP royally in what should have been great year for her after those performances at Nationals. Ditto Gracie taking herself out in the SP

2016 - Yay

2017 - I don’t think any one would’ve medaled, frankly.

2018 - Bleak

2019 - Bradie looking good but the competition was getting even tougher

2021 - Better than expected but no medals

 

[karmena]

Why Wagner's silver medal is forgotten?

 

[Lacey]

2008 -

2021 - Better than expected but no medals

Bless your memory, fantastic!