U.S. Women [#1]: The Contenders Unmask Themselves

[AxelAnnie]

The concerns raised in reference to Mia Kalin (and really to all the American women) can come across as a lot of hand-wringing but I think they are legitimate.

Even with all the quads she attempted, Mia was nowhere near the podium in Kosice. It is odd to see a young talent who can rotate quads but not triples. It's also concerning to see her get such low levels on her non-jump elements. Her current team seem to have the wrong priorities.

There is the sense (about the American women) that they are falling farther and farther behind the Russians. The US program has not been producing champions for at least 20 years. I think it's time for US Figure Skating to assess where they are going wrong in reference to developing their female figure skating talent.

I see needless politics and favoritism from the federation (one day you are in and the next day you are out...) instead of a focus on getting these young women whatever it is that they need to succeed.

I think of it as a pendulum. Hopefully someone will make an adjustment to weight artistry a bit more heavily.

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

I think of it as a pendulum. Hopefully someone will make an adjustment to weight artistry a bit more heavily.

I think we'll see adjustments after the Olympics. ISU is going to assess who is winning and for what reason. Junior ladies usually have 2 seasons when they can do the 3A's/4's. Sometimes that overlaps to seniors and they get a few medals. But, who aside from Tuk has kept these elements? Let juniors do these things while they can. But, start seniors at at least 16yo. It's just not interesting (to me) to see kids winning for a few competitions then being replaced by the next child/athlete.

 

[her grace]

Trusova’s kept her quads for four seasons. We’re only now seeing whether the ladies who learned quads as kids can maintain them as they become adults.

 

[Frau Muller]

Trusova’s kept her quads for four seasons. We’re only now seeing whether the ladies who learned quads as kids can maintain them as they become adults.

Trusova has a blessed body type (past puberty)...not all young women do. By “blessed,” I mean only for sport/ballet type of endeavors.

 

[BittyBug]

My original point was that for those who are trying earnestly to master quads and 3A in the here and now, in order to be truly competitive with the Russians element for element someday, there is likely to be un-evenness along the developmental path. That is all.

I think there is a lot of push from parents and sometimes the skaters themselves to measure success by jumps, perhaps because it is a visible measure of progress, but the focus on jumps is often at the expense of skating skills, which are the fundamental building blocks of skating. It's a delicate balancing act, but it's very hard to go back and and improve speed and use of the blade after the fact. Yes, it can be done, but it takes a LOT of effort and focus and it's really the exception when a skater significantly improves their blade skills later in their development cycle. On the other hand, revolutions can be added later if the technique for the basic jump is sound (see Tuktamysheva, Liza).

Patrick Chan got to be Patrick Chan because his coach relentlessly drilled him on basic skating, day in and day out, from a very early age.

 

[Lemonade20]

I think there is a lot of push from parents and sometimes the skaters themselves to measure success by jumps, perhaps because it is a visible measure of progress, but the focus on jumps is often at the expense of skating skills, which are the fundamental building blocks of skating. It's a delicate balancing act, but it's very hard to go back and and improve speed and use of the blade after the fact. Yes, it can be done, but it takes a LOT of effort and focus and it's really the exception when a skater significantly improves their blade skills later in their development cycle. On the other hand, revolutions can be added later if the technique for the basic jump is sound (see Tuktamysheva, Liza).

Patrick Chan got to be Patrick Chan because his coach relentlessly drilled him on basic skating, day in and day out, from a very early age.

Oh man, I really miss him now.

 

[Willin]

I get the sense that you have some sort of personal axe to grind with this skater or her team? I don’t know who you are or what your affiliation is with the club there, but your tone very clearly reflects some sort of negative sentiment.

I am simply a skating fan with an appreciation for all that these youngsters are doing to succeed in a sport that has evolved dramatically since the age of Kristy Y, Brian B. etc.

My original point was that for those who are trying earnestly to master quads and 3A in the here and now, in order to be truly competitive with the Russians element for element someday, there is likely to be un-evenness along the developmental path. That is all.

I’m exiting this conversation and this forum for now. I really get a kick out of all these skaters, each with their strengths and weaknesses, and believe they should all get a lot of support for their hard work. The vibe here has gotten a little sour for my taste.

Lol I have no axe to grind with Mia. As a member of her club who's money helps fund her training (and someone who takes pride in Bay Area skaters) I really want to see her succeed and reach podiums. My axe to grind is with her coaching team who seem to not be using the great resources around them to help her grow. She obviously has the drive and determination to be great if she's landing quads, but her team isn't giving her the tools to win despite her hard work.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Alysa landed a quad at JGP Lake Placid two years ago for the first international quad for Americans.

Ahhhh i'm pretty sure Angela Nikodinov landed a quad lutz / triple toe with a transition into it a layback

 

[AxelAnnie]

Ahhhh i'm pretty sure Angela Nikodinov landed a triple lutz / triple toe with a transition into it a layback

 

[AxelAnnie]

And, there was no better lay-back!

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

And, there was no better lay-back!

Honorable mentions to Dorothy Hamill, Nicole Bobek and Sasha Cohen

Lol I meant to say quad in my joke but I’m still jetlagged

 

[AxelAnnie]

Thanks for mentioning Angela's name. I just watched several of her skates. I loved her. She was so great.

There are many skaters who go out and hit all their jumps. But for me, I would rather watch someone like Angela. She skated with her heart.

I hope we get to see skaters like that again.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Thanks for mentioning Angela's name. I just watched several of her skates. I loved her. She was so great.

There are many skaters who go out and hit all their jumps. But for me, I would rather watch someone like Angela. She skated with her heart.

Liquid gold - Dick button

 

[AxelAnnie]

Liquid gold - Dick button

Too true! The most gorgeous back and arms.

 

[Frau Muller]

Liquid gold - Dick button

Did Dick describe Angela as “liquid gold”? I just remember the “refrigerator break” quip. Maybe he felt guilty about that & made up for it with “liquid gold”!

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Did Dick describe Angela as “liquid gold”? I just remember the “refrigerator break” quip. Maybe he felt guilty about that & made up for it with “liquid gold”!

Yes he referred to her movement as liquid gold. Who is the refrigerator break in reference to? I can't remember anymore

 

[Frau Muller]

Yes he referred to her movement as liquid gold. Who is the refrigerator break in reference to? I can't remember anymore

Angela Nikodinov. Dick Button suggested that she was so dull that it was a fine time for viewers to take a refrigerator break.

It was one of Uncle Dick’s most notorious quips. Most fans in FSU (whatever it was called then) were upset and disagreed.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Angela Nikodinov. Dick Button suggested that she was so dull that it was a fine time for viewers to take a refrigerator break.

It was one of Uncle Dick’s most notorious quips. Most fans in FSU (whatever it was called then) were upset and disagreed.

I remember him saying that but he said that about our dear Angela? For real? I thought it was about one of the Russian women. Well after her transformation he referred to her as liquid gold

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Angela Nikodinov. Dick Button suggested that she was so dull that it was a fine time for viewers to take a refrigerator break.

It was one of Uncle Dick’s most notorious quips. Most fans in FSU (whatever it was called then) were upset and disagreed.

Oh dear as much as we love dick I wonder if he could get away with things he said today or if he would’ve been held up the cancel culture.

He called Sokolova cupcake and then said about Irina that all the old men like to pinch me and that’s not what she said in an interview years later she said “all” the men, not old men lol

 

[Frau Muller]

Oh dear as much as we love dick I wonder if he could get away with things he said today or if he would’ve been held up the cancel culture.

He called Sokolova cupcake and then said about Irina that all the old men like to pinch me and that’s not what she said in an interview years later she said “all” the men, not old men lol

LOL! And Uncle Dick sang “Thank heaven for little girls” on-camera when then-very young (12 or 13 yr olds) Sasha Cohen & Naomi Nari Nam first came on the scene.

 

[Spiralgraph]

In semi defense of Dick Button, when he mentioned the refrigerator break I'm almost certain that was during her infamous mummy program which I loathed. The only thing I liked about that program was Angela's laybacks. That mummy program was ill conceived and did nothing to help Angela. It was after that program that Angela went through her transformation with better superior programs that showed off Angela's beautiful skating.

 

[Coco]

When criticism is accurate and given without malice, it can lead one to improvement.

 

[VGThuy]

I don’t think many people disagreed with the refrigerator break remark at the time. It was accurate. Then she had her transformation and nobody took a break during her skate again.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

In semi defense of Dick Button, when he mentioned the refrigerator break I'm almost certain that was during her infamous mummy program which I loathed. The only thing I liked about that program was Angela's laybacks. That mummy program was ill conceived and did nothing to help Angela. It was after that program that Angela went through her transformation with better superior programs that showed off Angela's beautiful skating.

Yeah if I had one program that I never go back to watch of my queen Angela it’s the mummy

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

In semi defense of Dick Button, when he mentioned the refrigerator break I'm almost certain that was during her infamous mummy program which I loathed. The only thing I liked about that program was Angela's laybacks. That mummy program was ill conceived and did nothing to help Angela. It was after that program that Angela went through her transformation with better superior programs that showed off Angela's beautiful skating.

Her transformation was so remarkable, the following year or after she joined team Elena. she was unrecognizable to me

 

[tony]

In semi defense of Dick Button, when he mentioned the refrigerator break I'm almost certain that was during her infamous mummy program which I loathed. The only thing I liked about that program was Angela's laybacks. That mummy program was ill conceived and did nothing to help Angela. It was after that program that Angela went through her transformation with better superior programs that showed off Angela's beautiful skating.

It was during 2000 Nationals free skate IIRC, so yeah it would’ve been The Mummy. Honestly, the majority of her programs pre-2001 season were kinda meh and that transformation she had was I still remember watching 2000 Skate America and being blown away at the difference.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

It was during 2000 Nationals free skate IIRC, so yeah it would’ve been The Mummy. Honestly, the majority of her programs pre-2001 season were kinda meh and that transformation she had was I still remember watching 2000 Skate America and being blown away at the difference.

Totally!!! Her transformation was a true transformation, with her skating and her appearance. And I’m so happy I got to meet her in person at the practices at Pittsburg State America. It’s so funny we both traveled from Los Angeles to Pennsylvania and that’s where I met her when we live in the same city lol

And on top of that she got the Gold medal

 

[LeafOnTheWind]

I don’t think many people disagreed with the refrigerator break remark at the time. It was accurate. Then she had her transformation and nobody took a break during her skate again.

And to be fair to Dick, the refrigerator remark was made out of frustration because he also went on to say she was a much better skater than that program. He actually held her in very high regard and just wanted to see her reach her potential. Probably better ways to say it but if anyone listens to the whole thing in context it was there.

 

[Sylvia]

Very impressed with Ava Marie Ziegler at JGP Kosice this weekend. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kTGhszlz90
She did a terrific job interpreting the music (Gravity by Sara Bareilles). The program flew by for me, probably because she punctuated it with so many lovely spread eagles and ina bauers. Sometimes music like this is background music in skating, but she took her time with and made it authentic and meaningful.

I hope she gets a second event and would love to see her skate seniors at nationals—I think she could do quite well there.

As hoped, Ziegler gets a second JGP assignment - re-posting here from the JGP thread in GSD:

Some changes for the US per the ISU website entries:

Slovenia [#5]: Ava Ziegler added for ladies (replaces Mia Kalin's placeholder spot), her second assignment

Ava has not competed at a senior event in any club competition that I know of this summer so I assume she is staying junior this season? We'll find out soon enough when qualifying season kicks off.

 

[Sylvia]

Olympics.com has an article on Alysa ahead of her ISU Challenger Series debut at Lombardia Trophy this week:

Alysa Liu: Youngest U.S. champ ever ready for senior international debut

The youngest skater to win the U.S. national championships, the now-16-year-old is ready for the step up to the senior ranks ahead of Beijing 2022, which has been her long-term goal.

olympics.com