ISU has cancelled 2021 Europeans, ISU Grand Prix Final, World Junior Synchro; Stockholm Worlds still on for now

[Vagabond]

Do they? I mean how did Tran participate the Worlds? He never had a Japanese passport. You sure it's not Olympics and the OC rules?

This is where I got that information:

For Pairs and Dance, at least one has to be a citizen or resident and use that passport or a different passport with a residency visa permit, but if both do, they have to use that passport when they check in for the event. This came up when a lot of us wondered why Mishe Ge had to spend so much time sweating about visas when he could have just used a Russian or Chinese passport, which we assumed he had because those are his parents' nationalities and he was born into at least one, to be told that the ISU required that he use his Uzbeki one and to show he had the right to be in that country as an Uzbeki citizen.

That would mean that Tran wouldn't have needed a Japanese (or American) passport, but Messing would need a Canadian one.

 

[Deleted member 221]

IINM, ISU regulations require Messing, as a representative of Canada, to travel to Sweden on his Canadian passport. Still, Messing trains in the United States, so this isn't really a problem. He can get back into the U.S. with his U.S. passport.

This can't possibly be true, as it would create situations that run afoul of the law. E.g., Imagine a dual U.S. and Belgian citizen who trained in Canada (which I believe Alice Sue Claeys was at one point). The ISU could not require her to enter the U.S. on a Belgian passport, or she would be arrested and jailed.

Similarly, a U.S. skater with dual European citizenship MUST enter the European Union on the EU passport. It is a serious offense, again subject to arrest and prosecution, if they enter their country of dual citizenship on the American passport. It's also technically illegal, though less likely to be caught, if they enter another EU country on the U.S. passport. It creates a potentially serious international conflict, should the person commit a crime or otherwise get in trouble, because the EU has "supremacy" while an EU citizen is in an EU country. The U.S. State Department has very limited rights and ability to help a dual American-EU citizen on EU soil.

Other countries have similar rules - I know of dual Australian - UK citizens who were detained and questioned for hours when they tried to enter Australia on their UK passport. The whole airport was shut down with alarms, etc. when they scanned their UK passports in the self-service machines.

The ISU may require skaters to present to competition officials a passport or ID of the country they're representing, but they cannot require skaters to travel on it. In Messing's case, it won't make a difference, but in other cases, it will.

Dual citizens, travelling between their two countries or a related country (in the case of EU/EEA), need to travel with both passports. Use Passport A to check in with the airline. Then use Passport B for exit checks. Then Use Passport A for entrance checks when you land. Then Use Passport B with the airline on the return flight home (remember to change the Advance Passenger Information). Then Use Passport A for exit checks. Then use Passport B for entrance. It seems shady and wrong, but it's the only legal way and will keep dual citizens out of trouble. Otherwise, you end up like my Australian-UK friends....

I suppose the "passport rule" is that when the country hosting the event sends out invitations to skaters who need visas e.g. somebody representing Uzbekistan in a skating competition gets an invitation accordingly. Not something he could present in inviting country's consulate in Russia with his Russian passport. Those who do not need visas can present what passport whey wish when crossing boarders.

Yes, this is right, subject to laws I mentioned above.

Isn’t this passport thing what caused Misha Ge huge issues because visas were harder to get with his Uzbekistan passport? He has other passports, but had to use that one for travel for skating comps.

What passport / citizenship does he have that's easier? Russian? Chinese? (I don't think China allows dual citizenship?) Neither of those seem much better than Uzbekistan, but maybe I'm wrong.

 

[TAHbKA]

This is where I got that information:

That would mean that Tran wouldn't have needed a Japanese (or American) passport, but Messing would need a Canadian one.

That leaves us with Roman Serov who never had an Israeli passport (hence he ended up not going to the Olympics).

 

[starrynight]

What passport / citizenship does he have that's easier? Russian? Chinese? (I don't think China allows dual citizenship?) Neither of those seem much better than Uzbekistan, but maybe I'm wrong.

I always thought it must have been the Uzbeki passport that was the issue as poor Misha missed competitions due to visa issues and none of the Russian skaters have had such problems that I can recall. I think getting into France was always a problem for him.

 

[Amy L]

What passport / citizenship does he have that's easier? Russian? Chinese? (I don't think China allows dual citizenship?) Neither of those seem much better than Uzbekistan, but maybe I'm wrong.

He was born in Moscow so I assume he has/had Russian citizenship. I think some of his problems involved getting visas as an Uzbek citizen, i.e he had a lot of issues communicating with embassies and getting the necessary paperwork on time.

Just for comparison, a Russian passport is listed as #24 in passport power, Uzbekistan is #59.

Passport Index website

 

[Deleted member 221]

Just for comparison, a Russian passport is listed as #24 in passport power, Uzbekistan is #59.

True, but the visa-free countries for Russia but not Uzbekistan are not exactly skating hotbeds, so I'm not sure the rank is that meaningful.

Compare passports of Russia and Uzbekistan

Places where Uzbeks need visas but Russians do not:
Argentina
the Bahamas
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Botswana
Brazil
Brunei
Chile
Colombia
Costa Rica
the Dominican Republic
El Salvador
Fiji
Grenada
Guatemala
Guyana
Honduras
Hong Kong
Israel
the Republic of Macedonia
Mongolia
Montenegro
Morocco
Panama
Paraguay
Peru
São Tomé and Príncipe
Serbia
South Africa
South Korea
Saint Kitts and Nevis
Saint Lucia
Swaziland
Taiwan
Trinidad and Tobago
Tunisia
the United Arab Emirates
Uruguay
Vanuatu
Venezuela
Vietnam
Angola
Bangladesh
Egypt
the Marshall Islands
Nauru
Oman
Saudi Arabia
Tanzania
Tonga
Zambia
Bahrain
Mexico

 

[starrynight]

At any rate, I'm interested to see what kind of safety measures they try to put into place at Worlds and if they'll be followed.

Watching the international tennis players in Australia act like a bunch of pelicans over containment measurements really isn't giving me a lot of hope. It makes me think that many sporting events overseas are just a free for all.

Although skaters are much, much more modest people than tennis players, so it's probably not a fair comparison. But I'm just about exhausted of sports acting like they occupy a higher status level than all other occupations and activities.

 

[Elka]

He was born in Moscow so I assume he has/had Russian citizenship. I think some of his problems involved getting visas as an Uzbek citizen, i.e he had a lot of issues communicating with embassies and getting the necessary paperwork on time.

Just for comparison, a Russian passport is listed as #24 in passport power, Uzbekistan is #59.

Passport Index website

If he did not have a valid multi-entry visa to EU, (training in USA at that time?, he probably did not have), he presumably received an invitation from the FFSG for getting a one-entry visa for the competition as representing Uzbekistan. He then should present that invitation in the consulate department of the Embassy of France in Tashkent for getting the visa. Depending of his status in USA (residence) he could present it in the French consulate in USA. If not a resident that would be problematic. Anyhow such a situation would mean delays.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

Is there one post lately that you can get through without it being the end of the world? Good lord.

Say whatever you want now, but these were your words:

You 'think it's kind of weird' with your always cheery disposition. And what did I do? I pointed out that it's not weird when there are quite a large number of countries with skaters that don't quite have TES levels that would almost certainly take the chance to get to a Worlds. If they've been competing throughout Europe all autumn, I don't see why they wouldn't take the opportunity with the minimums being dropped. I even provided a suggested list of countries that have sent skaters to compete this year.

You ignored that part, and then decided to quote a later post, after half-reading it, and not noticing the word potential. Speaking of telling people what they meant..

Big countries already earning spots having to potentially drop out and these smaller countries that have skaters who have competed 4 times already this year are a big difference. So no, I still don't think it's kind of weird.

You literally tried to dictate what my point was. And now you’ve decided to personally attack me. But yeah, I’m the one whose disposition is a problem here. You get that there’s no law that says that I’m required to reply to all of your posts in sequence, right?

Literally read the post you are literally quoting. I know that might be hard for you since you’ve decided what it means already and now you’re going to make snide comments about something I didn’t say all over the thread. It does not say the reduced fields will come specifically from smaller federations dropping out. Just from “skaters” dropping out.

If you can’t read for information, that’s not my problem. But stop personally attacking me for disagreeing with you.

 

[allezfred]

The ISU may require skaters to present to competition officials a passport or ID of the country they're representing, but they cannot require skaters to travel on it.

This is correct.

 

[tony]

You literally tried to dictate what my point was. And now you’ve decided to personally attack me. But yeah, I’m the one whose disposition is a problem here. You get that there’s no law that says that I’m required to reply to all of your posts in sequence, right?

Wow, this is fun. I'm 'literally' reading what you initially wrote, and you passed by my initial responses to focus on something I didn't even say, so here we going with the gold medal projecting.

Going from 36 entries to potentially 47-50 is a huge difference,

I'll share it again:

I think it's kind of weird to expect that there will be a sudden influx of skaters from small countries who would not normally have been able to to send skaters in this particular year. I think we're much more likely to have small fields due to skaters having had almost no training, not being able to travel from their countries, not meeting testing requirements, etc.

Literally read the post you are literally quoting. I know that might be hard for you since you’ve decided what it means already and now you’re going to make snide comments about something I didn’t say all over the thread. It does not say the reduced fields will come specifically from smaller federations dropping out. Just from “skaters” dropping out.

If you can’t read for information, that’s not my problem. But stop personally attacking me for disagreeing with you.

'Literally' read the post I am 'literally' quoting. 'I know that might be hard for you since you've decided' to tell me what it should mean rather than what it says. The bolded part says that you don't think countries who wouldn't have normally had spots would send skaters to Worlds--- end thought, after we saw a good 10+ additional countries in both ladies and men send skaters to international competition 2, 3, 4+ times this year. It's a pre-Olympic season, and I think its 'kind of weird' to assume that these countries would NOT send skaters in the event of a TES drop. I suggested this was wrong, was not rude in the slightest, and you chimed in later after not having read correctly, and now here we are.

Maybe the ISU won't open the TES up. Maybe they will make it super strict. Maybe we won't have to worry about any of this. But still eagerly awaiting the next condescending post from you.

 

[taz'smum]

P/C not doing worlds
https://www.sports-auvergne.fr/cler...s-cizezon-forfait-pour-les-mondiaux_13904907/

 

[layman]

Wait a minute...does this mean that Papadakis and Cizeron are skipping Worlds in Stockholm (even if the competition is held)?

 

[taz'smum]

Wait a minute...does this mean that Papadakis and Cizeron are skipping Worlds in Stockholm (even if the competition is held)?

Yep!

 

[Sylvia]

Translations re. P/C's WD are posted here: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...nçaise-part-quatre.107545/page-2#post-5941302

 

[VGThuy]

Ice Dance title is finally opening up...if there is a Worlds. Get that snake ready, and sing Hallelujah! Not sure what Russia and Canada will do (I guess the latter isn't sure either).

 

[clairecloutier]

It's interesting because it feels like, for various reasons (not, of course, all within their control), both the dance and pairs 2018 Oly silver medalists have had a very reduced presence in skating since Pyeongchang.

Papadakis/Cizeron appear to have skated in just 9 competitions over the last 3 seasons since 2018 Worlds.

Sui/Han have done even less, just 6 competitions total since the 2018 Olympics.

I wonder if either team will be as favored for the Beijing Olympics as was once expected.

 

[casken]

Stepanova/Bukin FTW I guess?

 

[Vagabond]

Ice Dance title is finally opening up...if there is a Worlds. Get that snake ready, and sing Hallelujah! Not sure what Russia and Canada will do (I guess the latter isn't sure either).

Russia will smile and come together. Canada will take a lesson from P/C and stay home (or maybe the other way around).

 

[thvu]

Stepanova/Bukin FTW I guess?

 

[Karen-W]

I asked this in the France news thread but... is the #2 French dance team capable of earning one spot for the Olympics or will we see P/C at Nebelhorn?

Furthermore, Canada would be stupid to not send two teams to Worlds because they can earn easily earn a 3rd spot now, IMO, with P/C out. And this could be a godsend for Spain in their quest to earn 2 spots.

 

[VGThuy]

I'm just now realizing what P/C have been doing for ice dance for the past 3 seasons-ish. I'm finding myself not really wanting any other team to win Worlds now. Not that I dislike any of them or anything, but after having years of having either P/C or V/M as winners, it's hard to...I don't know how to put it without offending...you know what I mean.

 

[aka_gerbil]

I asked this in the France news thread but... is the #2 French dance team capable of earning one spot for the Olympics or will we see P/C at Nebelhorn?

Furthermore, Canada would be stupid to not send two teams to Worlds because they can earn easily earn a 3rd spot now, IMO, with P/C out. And this could be a godsend for Spain in their quest to earn 2 spots.

They are not capable of 2 spots by themselves.

Canada can send 3 dance teams to this worlds if it happens.

 

[Debbie S]

Stepanova/Bukin FTW I guess?

S/K are prob more likely to win than S/B. (Did both teams have YKW?)

Go Snake!

 

[Colonel Green]

I asked this in the France news thread but... is the #2 French dance team capable of earning one spot for the Olympics or will we see P/C at Nebelhorn?

Lauriault/Le Gac in proper form wouldn’t have a problem securing that one spot, but they haven’t been in proper form in a while and I’m unsure that’s who France would even send.

More to the point, that’s rough for whoever France does send, because even if they did manage to qualify they know for a fact they have zero chance of getting to go to the Olympics.

 

[Karen-W]

They are not capable of 2 spots by themselves.

Canada can send 3 dance teams to this worlds if it happens.

I know they can send 3 teams but I don't think their #3 team is capable of top 10 yet in spite of being former Jr World Champs. You have 3 USA, 3 Rus, 2 Can, the Italians, Spanish, Brits, and then the Chinese and Japanese are improving, plus the Poles that FSU loves to hate on, lol. L/L are talented but they're probably not making a top 10 debut at Worlds.

 

[taz'smum]

S/K are prob more likely to win than S/B. (Did both teams have YKW?)

Go Snake!

Yes, both teams have had C19.
Most of the Russian National team has had it.

 

[Colonel Green]

My biggest takeaway from this is that I would guess this means the FFSG will be on Team No-Worlds-As-Olympic-Qualifier in whatever political games are going on within the ISU.

 

[allezfred]

Am thinking this is an indication that Worlds is more likely than not to get cancelled.

 

[taz'smum]

Am thinking this is an indication that Worlds is more likely than not to get cancelled.

Strangely I felt exactly the same way on hearing this news.
It pointed out the elephant in the room, that the psychological aspect of some skaters not having competed all season and the consequences of quarantines have not been taken into consideration.