ISU has cancelled 2021 Europeans, ISU Grand Prix Final, World Junior Synchro; Stockholm Worlds still on for now

MacMadame

Staying at home
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40,644
Something to keep in mind about Worlds:

2020 Worlds was canceled because the province canceled the permit. IOW, it was the hosting government who said "No," not the ISU. I can't see the ISU canceling if the host country allows it. And right now Sweden is allowing so many things, I can't see it not allowing Worlds.

The only other issue which was not an issue last year is whether enough countries will allow their citizens to travel to Sweden. Given all the people on FSU and my FB who are freely traveling to other countries, I don't see that as an issue either but I haven't researched every country that is a skating powerhouse so maybe I'm wrong about that.

I still think Worlds will happen and the worst that will happen is that it gets postponed to April or May just to insure that more skaters can make it.
 

skategal

Bunny mama
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7,570
The Government of Canada is still warning people not to and strongly discouraging people not to travel internationally.

I guess technically athletes could travel
to Sweden but they would be going against the government’s advice to do so.

And I don’t know how much Skate Canada wants to do that when a good chunk of their funding is from the Federal level.

We will see....
 

Karen-W

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,076
The Government of Canada is still warning people not to and strongly discouraging people not to travel internationally.

I guess technically athletes could travel
to Sweden but they would be going against the government’s advice to do so.

And I don’t know how much Skate Canada wants to do that when a good chunk of their funding is from the Federal level.

We will see....
Because if Canada can't/won't send their athletes then Worls must be canceled. Tell me, how are Canadian skiers doing with the World Cup happening in Europe right now? That's a legit question btw because I don't follow skiing so I don't know if Canada has any skiers on the circuit though I do know it's happening because I remember a blurb over the weekend on NBC or NBCSN about Mikaela Shiffrin winning again.
 

skatingguy

Golden Team
Messages
8,290
Because if Canada can't/won't send their athletes then Worls must be canceled. Tell me, how are Canadian skiers doing with the World Cup happening in Europe right now? That's a legit question btw because I don't follow skiing so I don't know if Canada has any skiers on the circuit though I do know it's happening because I remember a blurb over the weekend on NBC or NBCSN about Mikaela Shiffrin winning again.
I'm not clear - are you saying that Worlds must be cancelled if Canada can't/won't compete, or are you saying that @skategal was claiming that. Either way I don't think Canada should send a team, and that decision should not affect whether the Worlds goes ahead. That will be up to the ISU & the government of Sweden.

There are Canadian skiers competing on the FIS World Cup, and in many other different sports around the world. I think it's the difference between sports where the federation is in control, like figure skating, and sports where the athletes are more independent.
 

Seerek

Well-Known Member
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5,435
Sweden has the following senior winter sport events upcoming

  • Cross-Country ski (Falun, late Jan)
  • Slalom alpine ski (Are, March)
  • Ski Cross (Idre Fall for both a World Cup in January and the World Championships, February)
  • Snowboard Cross (World Championships, February)

Swedish Hockey League also continues its regular season into March
 

skategal

Bunny mama
Messages
7,570
Because if Canada can't/won't send their athletes then Worls must be canceled. Tell me, how are Canadian skiers doing with the World Cup happening in Europe right now? That's a legit question btw because I don't follow skiing so I don't know if Canada has any skiers on the circuit though I do know it's happening because I remember a blurb over the weekend on NBC or NBCSN about Mikaela Shiffrin winning again.
Pretty sure I never once said anywhere that Worlds should be canceled because Canada can’t go.

I’m just relaying the situation here because of the previous post talking about what the Big Federations are planning to do.

I have no idea what Skate Canada and the Government will work out amongst themselves or not for Worlds should it go ahead.

I don’t follow skiing so have no idea what is happening there?
 

Theatregirl1122

Needs a nap
Messages
23,854
I think it's kind of weird to expect that there will be a sudden influx of skaters from small countries who would not normally have been able to to send skaters in this particular year. I think we're much more likely to have small fields due to skaters having had almost no training, not being able to travel from their countries, not meeting testing requirements, etc.
 

MacMadame

Staying at home
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40,644
It is? Did you read the restrictions?
The "things" that are allowed in this case means "Elite Athletic Competitions". Look at @Seerek's list. That's a lot of events that are going on in Sweden. Plus, it was reported earlier in this thread that a lot of the restrictions have exceptions for elite sports.
 

Sylvia

Looking forward to U.S. club competition season
Messages
64,780
Beverley Smith's article on Madeline Schizas winning Skate Canada's Challenge virtual event includes this part about 2021 Worlds:
The International Skating Union meets at the end of the month to talk about it. If it decides to go ahead with it, Skate Canada will make its own decision in February about whether or not it is safe to send a team.
...
Nobody has a lot of information yet on the protocols that will be offered in Sweden at the event. Schizas doesn’t know how she would feel about boarding a plane right now: she’d have to know those protocols. But she very much wants to go to the world championships and hopes Skate Canada would assign her to it, if all goes ahead.
“But all I can do is keep training, as if I am going to worlds,” she said. “Worst case scenario, I’ll be just in really good shape. All of these things are out of my hands at this point.”
(Link to the full article is posted in the Canadian Women's news thread here: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...women-news-updates.107272/page-4#post-5939021)
 

Carolla5501

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,270
So here's the real truth.

They say "yes we are having worlds" Half this forum goes into cardiac arrest, DEMANDS to know EVERY detail of the ********* protocol so they can scream about how bad it is and generally works themselves into a state of high hysteria attacking everyone who is glad the event is going on.

They say "no, we are not having worlds" Half this forum goes into cardiac arrest, produces all kinds of creative ways they still could have done this event and generally works themselves into a state of high hysteria attacking everyone who is glad the event is cancelled.

Should be great fun for us if not for the skaters either way
 

tony

Well-Known Member
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9,695
I think it's kind of weird to expect that there will be a sudden influx of skaters from small countries who would not normally have been able to to send skaters in this particular year. I think we're much more likely to have small fields due to skaters having had almost no training, not being able to travel from their countries, not meeting testing requirements, etc.
You sure about that? The European-based competitions, where a lot of the ISU member nations are based anyways, have had plenty of B-level skaters who, without minimums, would probably jump on the opportunity to compete at a Worlds. It may be their only chance.

Men from countries like Hungary, Spain, Poland, Croatia, Slovakia, Ireland? have all competed this year within Europe but wouldn't have gone to 2020 Worlds. That's 6 additional entries alone. I'm sure Donovan Carrillo would also want to go. Finland and Belarus would likely send someone, too.

I think you're looking at obscure 'small' nations only and not realizing how many semi-decent skaters from a wide range of countries don't make the TES minimums.
 

Tinami Amori

Well-Known Member
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20,157
Men from countries like Hungary, Spain, Poland, Croatia, Slovakia, Ireland? have all competed this year within Europe but wouldn't have gone to 2020 Worlds. That's 6 additional entries alone.
And Italy, lets not forget. The country is holding local competitions every few weeks..... :).
 

tony

Well-Known Member
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9,695
And Italy, lets not forget. The country is holding local competitions every few weeks..... :).
Italy already had entries for Worlds in the mens event, the six countries I mentioned above would be additional numbers to an event without TES restrictions, 7 with Mexico. I'm sure there are more I am forgetting.
 

hoptoad

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,646
I think it's kind of weird to expect that there will be a sudden influx of skaters from small countries who would not normally have been able to to send skaters in this particular year. I think we're much more likely to have small fields due to skaters having had almost no training, not being able to travel from their countries, not meeting testing requirements, etc.
That's my initial reaction, too, but it's also the year when you REALLY don't want an extra-large field.

Maybe they should just allow anyone without min scores to apply and submit whatever competitive evidence they have to a selection committee. The committee could rank the applicants and fill up the field with the most qualified and select alternates in case of withdrawals. It's not going to be perfect, but they need some kind of structure. Even if beyond some point they just offer spots by lottery.
 

tony

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9,695
Just out of curiosity, I looked at the ladies event from Worlds, which was scheduled to have 36 competitors, and matched it with competitions that have taken place this season:

At the very least, I would suspect Denmark, Slovakia, Lithuania, Turkey, Cyprus, Serbia, Armenia, Israel, etc to at least consider sending someone. They have had skaters competing internationally this year.

Belgium would also have Hendrickx coming back.

That's 9 extra entries potentially just there. I'm sure Spain has someone that they would consider sending, and Mexico as well. It's inching closer to the 50 entries that we saw for a while. It's not as out of the question as some of you may think.
 

kwanfan1818

RIP D-10
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33,539
From what I could tell watching Eurosport during winter months working and traveling in Europe in the 00's and their coverage of ski jumping, cross-country, speed skating, and biathlon, the same is true for many winter sports. A large number of the competitors were on the European rosters week-in and week-out, and I assume they primarily traveled overland in packs for much of the season.
 

olympic

Well-Known Member
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9,862
Random thought (Sorry. FS on the mind since it's been filled w/ nothing but Nationals this weekend) - Since YKW has completely screwed up international competitions for roughly the last year, why can't the ISU extend the length of time one year further back to allow those who need the minimum? Then again, as someone posted, if ISU abolishes minimums altogether, then it may not be as overwhelming. As someone posted re ladies who would now be eligible, it may only expand the field by a bit.
 

kwanfan1818

RIP D-10
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33,539
If they're going to give GP spots to split couples, at least one of whom had to have certain results to qualify, and return skaters, who missed a season, and not require GP minimums or use the ones they had with their old partners, I don't see why they can't do the same for Worlds. Since junior requirements are more restrictive, I don't see why they also couldn't allow ISU junior scores -- JGP/JGPF, Jr. Worlds -- to count as well, even if the RD's aren't the same. This is not your average season.

They've raised the minimums in the past to get the number of participants they want.
 

tony

Well-Known Member
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9,695
Random thought (Sorry. FS on the mind since it's been filled w/ nothing but Nationals this weekend) - Since YKW has completely screwed up international competitions for roughly the last year, why can't the ISU extend the length of time one year further back to allow those who need the minimum? Then again, as someone posted, if ISU abolishes minimums altogether, then it may not be as overwhelming. As someone posted re ladies who would now be eligible, it may only expand the field by a bit.
I think you're confusing what I meant my point to be: upthread, someone suggested that there wouldn't be an influx of countries trying to compete by removing TES- but I think there actually would. If a skater has always been close (or even not so close) to the minimums and never had their chance to go to Worlds, they are likely getting sent this year without minimum requirements-- especially if it's a European nation IMO. Going from 36 entries to potentially 47-50 is a huge difference, and the 50 number was what we were hovering around for several years before the ISU stepped in with preliminary rounds and then ultimately TES minimums.

I can remember watching the entire mens SP at 2009 Worlds, which had 50 entries IIRC, and I believe it was nearly 9 hours long. There were even more ladies competing that season, too. 50 entries likely means 5-5-5-5-5-5-5-5-5-5 with each group taking probably 45 minutes to complete, and four ~15 minute ice resurfacing in-between. That's a long day no matter how much you love figure skating. Even if you were to do 5-5-5-5-6-6-6-6-6 and save one group, you still need four resurfaces.
 

danafan

Canadian ladies über
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7,619
A compromise would be to allow a country to fill their quota with any skater/team provided they have at least one skater/team who had the required minimums (perhaps going back to the 2018-2019 season). It would suck for someone from a country with no one with the minimums, having had no chance to earn them this year, but it would lead to similar size field to last year.
 

Theatregirl1122

Needs a nap
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23,854
I think you're confusing what I meant my point to be: upthread, someone suggested that there wouldn't be an influx of countries trying to compete by removing TES- but I think there actually would. If a skater has always been close (or even not so close) to the minimums and never had their chance to go to Worlds, they are likely getting sent this year without minimum requirements-- especially if it's a European nation IMO. Going from 36 entries to potentially 47-50 is a huge difference, and the 50 number was what we were hovering around for several years before the ISU stepped in with preliminary rounds and then ultimately TES minimums.

I can remember watching the entire mens SP at 2009 Worlds, which had 50 entries IIRC, and I believe it was nearly 9 hours long. There were even more ladies competing that season, too. 50 entries likely means 5-5-5-5-5-5-5-5-5-5 with each group taking probably 45 minutes to complete, and four ~15 minute ice resurfacing in-between. That's a long day no matter how much you love figure skating. Even if you were to do 5-5-5-5-6-6-6-6-6 and save one group, you still need four resurfaces.

Right, but you're completely not counting that being offset at all by people who can't attend.
 

tony

Well-Known Member
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9,695
Right, but you're completely not counting that being offset at all by people who can't attend.
And how many do you think won't be able to attend? Remember, Canada only had one mens entry as a result of 2019 Worlds, and Australia the same (but I think Kerry is in Europe anyways).

Also, your talking point was not about that-- it was you stating you didn't think there would be countries sending skaters this year (with no TES minimum) that weren't able to go before. If you look at the competitions that have happened throughout Europe already this season, my opinion differs.

Also, you'll note the word 'potentially' in the one post you quoted, but check the other where I directly quoted you ;)
 

Dobre

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9,810
And how many do you think won't be able to attend?
I don't think we know. Do we have any idea what China & South Korea are likely to do? (I've asked twice whether China is sending out athletes in other sports, and no one has answered).
 

tony

Well-Known Member
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9,695
I don't think we know. Do we have any idea what China & South Korea are likely to do? (I've asked twice whether China is sending out athletes in other sports, and no one has answered).
I have no idea what they will officially do, but I would imagine China wants to send a team regardless. South Korea, I'm not sure. But Young You is in Japan, or no?

But still, that doesn't take away from the assumption earlier in the thread that there wouldn't be more countries sending skaters with the TES dropped. We've seen plenty of federations sending out skaters to European events this season. Now if said poster would've argued originally 'Well, a lot of countries probably would send skaters if there are no requirements, but it might be balanced out by countries that are not able to attend', then that's a different story.
 

skatingguy

Golden Team
Messages
8,290
So here's the real truth.

They say "yes we are having worlds" Half this forum goes into cardiac arrest, DEMANDS to know EVERY detail of the ********* protocol so they can scream about how bad it is and generally works themselves into a state of high hysteria attacking everyone who is glad the event is going on.

They say "no, we are not having worlds" Half this forum goes into cardiac arrest, produces all kinds of creative ways they still could have done this event and generally works themselves into a state of high hysteria attacking everyone who is glad the event is cancelled.

Should be great fun for us if not for the skaters either way
And? This is what happens when Eteri announces what she's having for lunch.
 

Sabine-Yuna

Well-Known Member
Messages
246
Because if Canada can't/won't send their athletes then Worls must be canceled. Tell me, how are Canadian skiers doing with the World Cup happening in Europe right now? That's a legit question btw because I don't follow skiing so I don't know if Canada has any skiers on the circuit though I do know it's happening because I remember a blurb over the weekend on NBC or NBCSN about Mikaela Shiffrin winning again.
There are Canadian cross country skiers, biathletes, ski jumpers, bob crews and probably even more athletes from other sports right now in Europe at world cup competing. I have not heard about any govermental restrictions. There is probably an advice that almost every country has installed, but if you need to travel to do your job and there is no other chance for sport professionals you go.
 

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