Survivor: Winners at War

[tony]

'You can BET' was part of the paper explaining the battle back- can it really be something having to do solely with fire tokens?

Scratch that- the preview for next week has the 14 Edge players on some kind of rope challenge with Natalie, Parv, Yul(?), and Wendell out in front from what I can see. Since everyone else on the screen seems to be at the same starting point behind them, I would guess this is how the challenge starts after advantages are used.

 

[Erin]

ETA- both tribals and the summary of the season went on way too long. I know they want the finale to be packed with drama, but the battle back should've really been this week seeing they had 20 minutes of filler.

This!! I thought for sure everything was wrapping up sooner so that they could do the battle back, but instead just the filler. I was only half paying attention to this episode and doing other things and I don't think I missed anything.

 

[Jenny]

I didn't mind the summary at the end, but yeah Jeff really dragged out the TCs.

Still not sure about the idea of someone coming back this late in the game. Yeah yeah they had to "survive" on Edge, but it's nothing compared to the kind of survival faced by those still in the main part of the game. Plus, it's worth being reminded that every person on Edge was outplayed - in Tyson's case twice - so why should they get a second chance when those remaining in the game have made it through just as many challenged AND way more TCs?

And it's looking like Natalie now has this stacked in her favour - but is that right if she gets there pretty much on the strength of her investment in the fire tokens aspect of the game? When she was the first person eliminated and hasn't had to navigate the social game for the past month?

Assuming btw that those still in the game can also purchase advantages with their fire tokens? Could be interesting if they can now turn it on the Edgers who have been messing with them all this time.

Also wondering if there will be a built-in jury bias for the Edger who gets back in, having spent all that time bonding kumbaya style rather than having to cut each other's throats like the other finalists.

Tony needs to win this. He's the only one who in my mind deserves the title of winner of all winners, for dozens of reasons.

 

[Prancer]

Assuming btw that those still in the game can also purchase advantages with their fire tokens? Could be interesting if they can now turn it on the Edgers who have been messing with them all this time.

I am pretty sure Jeff said that they had to use all their fire tokens on the last episode, which is why Denise bought rice. They all looked at the menus, but that's the only purchase that was mentioned. I don't think anyone had any tokens anyway; Nick spent all of his and Michelle's on the disadvantage, Tony spent all of his on the extortion thing, and I don't think Ben had any.

 

[Jenny]

I thought Michelle had 3 and Nick only needed 2, leaving her with 1, and then she won Immunity so she got 2 more, no? Right about Tony spending his, and Ben did say he'd never had one, but he actually gave 1 to Tony, along with Nick and Jeremy. Denise did buy rice, but do we know if that cost all her tokens? And what about Sarah?

They've been putting them up on screen with their names, but I wish there was a chart out there for this.

Same with who has idols or other advantages and how long they're good for. It's so hard to keep track! Tony has one, Ben has one. Rob said he had one. Natalie said she was going to buy one (I think). The Edge return competition is going to be weird enough, but then so is the next TC if that's the expiry for everything.

Mind you, I have faith that Tony will somehow control it as he has for the last several TCs, down to the exact votes.

 

[Prancer]

I thought Michelle had 3 and Nick only needed 2, leaving her with 1, and then she won Immunity so she got 2 more, no? Right about Tony spending his, and Ben did say he'd never had one, but he actually gave 1 to Tony, along with Nick and Jeremy. Denise did buy rice, but do we know if that cost all her tokens? And what about Sarah?

I guess that's why they were all looking at menus. But I am sure that Jeff said last night was the last time the tokens could be used.

Natalie said she was going to buy one (I think).

She had one already and she bought one and gave it to Tyson, plus an advantage and a jar of peanut butter and maybe something else. She had 14 fire tokens.

I could not believe that she and Tyson ate that entire jar of peanut butter all at once .

 

[tony]

Still not sure about the idea of someone coming back this late in the game. Yeah yeah they had to "survive" on Edge, but it's nothing compared to the kind of survival faced by those still in the main part of the game. Plus, it's worth being reminded that every person on Edge was outplayed - in Tyson's case twice - so why should they get a second chance when those remaining in the game have made it through just as many challenged AND way more TCs?

And it's looking like Natalie now has this stacked in her favour - but is that right if she gets there pretty much on the strength of her investment in the fire tokens aspect of the game? When she was the first person eliminated and hasn't had to navigate the social game for the past month?

I forget if you said you watched 38 but it was the same predicament then. In that case, it was another early out (maybe 4th or 5th) coming back at the last minute with an advantage. And then you had a big group of ornery people all talking about this ‘journey’ that the Edge put them through together, and some of them had never even had a conversation with the other finalists before final tribal. The wrong person definitely won then and regardless of who came back, the cards would’ve likely been stacked in their favor.

Tony completely deserves this win, but honestly we may see a 38 all over again in the sense that the returnee realizes that a huge move would be to go head-to-head on fire-making with the clear favorite and then uses that as their one and only highlight of their resumé. That is, if Tony’s still there and not the immunity winner. But he’s just being built up way too much to have that perfect ending I think.

I can’t see anyone voting for Ben if he’s in the finals, and I’m not so sure about Michele either even though I still want her to do something big. If Natalie or Parv or Yul or Tyson or a whole handful of them gets back into the game in that scenario, I think it’s theirs for the taking.

 

[Jenny]

I could not believe that she and Tyson ate that entire jar of peanut butter all at once .

That was the other bizarro for me - when did they become such buddies? Did he share his sekret pb with her too?

That along with why so many seem to think Jeremy was/is such a big threat. From what I've seen he's been playing catch up the entire game, and only made it this far thanks to others. I would be equally disappointed if Michelle won - sure she's been scrappy enough to make it this far, but compared to others who are actually shaping the game, she's nothing.

And no @Tony Wheeler I didn't see that season. I was hard core for many years, then ended up skipping a few of the more recent seasons. I did see Tony's previous runs though, and let's be honest, other than a few characters and a few highlights, I really don't remember much of the seasons I actually watched either!

 

[BaileyCatts]

I can't believe the finale is tomorrow night already. It seems like it just started. All I can say is ….. go Tony!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[smurfy]

Great comments. I love discussing the show with everyone here.
One thing I noticed in last weeks episode at Exile, and in previous episodes -
when did either Danni or Adam speak? They are just in the background.
And last week- Natalie and Paravarti got a bunch of screen time, along with Tyson. Not as much Rob as I thought there would be. Clues as to who gets back in?
It will be strange when it ends - it is the only show I have been watching live lately, other than the news.

 

[Kasey]

Well, I think there's no way Natalie doesn't get back in, with three challenge advantages, but someone here will have to root for Wendell for me, since I'll be at work!

 

[alexikeguchi]

Two thumbs up for the decision to show content for the entire three hours and not waste time on a reunion show. I'm really satisfied with getting to see enough of the final strategizing and seeing more of the interpersonal relationships. Natalie totally deserved to get back in, and I think she has built as credible a resume as possible for someone who was out of the main game almost the entire time. Everyone in the final four can at least make a plausible case, even Michelle who showed her scrappiness and pulled out a couple key immunity wins to last until she could get help from Natalie. I'm satisfied Denise and Ben went out in that order since their gameplay was below the level of the others. I think it's still Tony>Natalie>Michelle, but they're all solid.

 

[tony]

Great ending- I'm really surprised that Tony was able to pull it off based on it being his show the entire second half. I also had the sense that Tony was going to kick Sarah's ass on fire because of her comments about how he wasn't in the right mindset.

Poor Michele though. After thinking she's not good enough, she just couldn't find an in no matter what she did this year and comes away with 0 votes. Not surprising, but you could see the sadness in her face not only in the final tribal but during the vote reading. Sometimes you can only do so much with no result, and sometimes you have to do very little to win. It's the game.

BTW- to Tony's credit, not only did he not have any votes but when it was 6 and he was convinced Natalie had an idol, they really should've just played all their votes on Denise like he suggested. Worst case is a tie there, but idols still in tact. I know Ben knew he couldn't win and that made his decision easier (on top of constantly making clueless statements all season), but Sarah's whole 'I've been doing so much' was a little late seeing how she was constantly pissed at Tony for doing his own thing and not letting her in on it, and this is coming from a huge Sarah fan. So no matter how I look at it, while he was the clear favorite and I like the underdog story, I have no qualms with his win.

 

[victorskid]

Quite satisfied with the results and the way it was handled

 

[tony]

PS- 16 or 17 year old on Survivor? They are looking for their next Michael Yerger, who has had huge success since the show although he already had established a career before he was on.

 

[Jenny]

Well I'm certainly a happy camper today! A couple of points had me on edge - the firemaking challenge for sure, and that one was a nail biter, but also that Tony didn't make the point that he ran at least the last 8 TCs - not only who's going, but every person's vote. I suspect though that enough of the Edgers knew, because they were there when it happened and could go back and think "Tony said this would happen" or "thank god Tony had it right and I made it through one more."

However, once I saw most of the jury laughing at Tony's stories I knew he had them. I thought someone might call him out for spying, but then him saying that he did it the first two seasons too was smart - as in "y'all knew I was gonna do this, and yet you let me get away with it again." Funny to think way back to Sandra's first season and what a key moment it was when she spied on some other players too, no?

So some questions. I can see Parvati's bond with Natalie and imagine her ability to talk Ethan into voting for her too. There's something I feel like they didn't show us with Tyson, because to me at least it was out of nowhere that she shared her peanut butter with him (again, did he share his sekret pb with her?), and then for a strong, all round player like him not to vote for Tony? Clearly I'm missing something. As for Jeremy, I think he might have been the sole Bitter Juror this time around. Wonder if Michelle was hoping for a sympathy vote from Wendell, glad he took the game seriously and voted for the right reasons.

Another question. There were hints that some jurors wondered why Natalie didn't take on Tony herself in the fire challenge. Is that even an option? And are we to assume she's that good at it? I wouldn't take the chance personally - seems no matter how good you are, that one bit of breeze or falling sticks or dry bits that burn too fast can change everything - but it certainly would have guaranteed her the win. I think she put too much on breaking up that strong alliance - every smart player knows that by the end, a strong alliance usually breaks itself up, because it has to.

Anyway, I truly enjoyed this season, like @smurfy it's the only show we've been watching live in our house, and I'm sad it's over.

ALL HAIL KING TONY!!

 

[sk8pics]

Another question. There were hints that some jurors wondered why Natalie didn't take on Tony herself in the fire challenge. Is that even an option?

Yes. There was another season where the winner of the immunity challenge took on one of the other players in the fire challenge. I forget who it was though....

I was glad Tony won. He played so hard the whole game, and for the most part, he played well. It was amazing that Natalie made it back into the game, but to me, she played a whole different game and didn’t deserve to win. I’m glad she got some votes, but also glad she didn’t win. And I never liked Michele much, not sure why. It was sad that she got no votes. I hope she will not let that bother her in the future, like she let comments about her previous win get to her.

 

[Erin]

As for Jeremy, I think he might have been the sole Bitter Juror this time around.

Jeremy and Natalie had been pretty close before this season. The whole reason that Natalie was voted out first was because people were trying to split up close twosomes, and she and Jeremy were considered dangerous. I don't think he was bitter - I think he was just voting for his friend.

Another question. There were hints that some jurors wondered why Natalie didn't take on Tony herself in the fire challenge. Is that even an option? And are we to assume she's that good at it? I wouldn't take the chance personally - seems no matter how good you are, that one bit of breeze or falling sticks or dry bits that burn too fast can change everything - but it certainly would have guaranteed her the win.

It's always an option for someone to give away the immunity necklace to someone else. So she could have given it to one of Michele or Sarah and told them to take the other one to the final.

I stopped watching for a few seasons, so I forgot how the final four worked, where you picked one person to go to the end and the other two do a fire challenge. I'm not really a huge fan of that format and I feel like this season kind of showed the flaw in it. If it had been done like the old school vote, there was a chance we could have seen both Sarah and Tony make it to the final and that would have been a really interesting final 3 with Natalie.

 

[Jenny]

Ah, OK, I didn't see the first episode so missed the Natalie-Jeremy relationship. Saw the rest though

Interesting point that Natalie could have done the fire challenge. Since several seemed to think she could have done it, she must be good at fire, so why then when she'd been so determined, so bold, didn't she do this one last thing that could have assured her the win? Sarah would have got quite a few votes I think (not the least of which would have been Tony talking everyone into it ), but ultimately being the one to take down Tony in a very risky way would have been rather spectacular.

Agree @sk8pics that Natalie played a different game, not just that she was out of the main play for most of the game, but that nearly her entire strategy was in amassing fire tokens. That might have rubbed a few players the wrong way, or at least made them think "fine, but that's not the real game here." It seemed that not all embraced the idea, or maybe thought they were fun, but not the true game. Only Natalie did, power to her for seeing that they could be important, but like you said, she was playing a different game. Might have also annoyed some who maybe are mad at themselves for not taking it seriously enough to see that the ONLY reason she got back in is because she had THREE advantages, and even there, barely.

Two other things - glad there was open discussion about good winners vs bad winners. As fans we've all said this going back to Vecepia, but it's like Jeff and the boys wanted us to think they were all the same. And, much as I get tired of Survivor wanting to be all politically forward all the time, and I cringe when Jeff tries to sounds sensitive to gender issues, I did like that he acknowledged that in the past he's treated men and women differently. Again, fans have been saying this for years (going back to his first bromance Colby), and bravo to Sarah for hitting it home and telling him to call her Lacina.

 

[Prancer]

There's something I feel like they didn't show us with Tyson, because to me at least it was out of nowhere that she shared her peanut butter with him (again, did he share his sekret pb with her?), and then for a strong, all round player like him not to vote for Tony?

She gave him a hidden immunity idol for the final challenge, which moved him to tears. I knew she had his vote.

An article for the Boston Rob fans

 

[tony]

@Jenny in season 38, the first EOE experiment, the returnee came back and had a similar run that Natalie had last night. He won the final immunity, knew he was never going to win unless another player was taken out of the game, and gave up his necklace to face off with that player. He then could use that on his short resume, and it worked. I still don’t agree with his win, though, regardless of that happening.

The fire-making challenge was put in place so that the person who was either the favorite or the biggest threat going into final 4 still had a chance to make it to the end rather than be the easy vote out for the other 3 (if said person doesn’t win immunity). I get the concept, but I also think we will see a lot more of the move where one player decides to take the risk and give up immunity to knock that other player out just as a big last ‘look what I did’. And then over time is it really strategy or just common, expected gameplay?

BTW- Sophie during that final council. That is the stuff that memes are made of.

 

[smurfy]

Yes very satisfying and lots of interesting twists and turns. After 40 seasons - I am still surprised.

Natalie - is awesome! Unless edited out, when they were praising Tony and Michelle for Individual Immunity wins - excuse me - Natalie won 2 of the 3 she competed in. That was very impressive. But I so loved her listing off all the things she won on Exile - that was hilarious.
And Jenny - I think the issue that Rob brought up about Nat not doing the fire challenge against Tony - was a key factor in Rob's decision. I get why he thinks that - someone did that a few seasons ago and did win the whole thing.
But why risk it? And I think Rob is listened to by the jury.
I think Natalie really bonded with folks on Exile. I have been a fan of Nat and her sister - the Twinnies from the Amazing Race. Some people did not like them on AR - they are very enthusiastic. But she played a great game the season she won Survivor - she gave up a reward that she won and she is creative.
The question about her isolating herself on Exile - interesting that she knows that about herself and I liked her answer.
She is from my hometown - and I have seen either her or her twin in Costco.
I do know how close she was with Jeremy in their season together. And Jeremy was close with Michelle - so I could see how they bonded well when Nat got back in.

I would have been happy with any of the 3 winning - I think that is a first for me. They each played differently and successfully - which I love that - and no Goat.
I love Tony calling himself the King. Did you notice in the Zoom pic - Sandra had a tiara!
I really thought in the beginning that Tony was shown for comic relief - good distraction by the editors.
And I so love how he talked about making himself financially stable - not save the world type comments.

It is interesting how Amber and Michelle shared how they felt they did not deserve their win . Whether or not that is true is up for debate - I do think some people have been rude to them - and that is so sad. It is a tv show - and I enjoy it - it is entertainment and fun. Even if I ever met someone from the show I was not a fan of - I would be cordial to them. I hope they stay off the forums (as I hope skaters do also).

I was a big fan of Sarah before - but she really lost me the last few episodes. I just could not root for Ben this season - and disappointed with what he did with Sarah.

So we will have to wait for the next season- whenever that is.
This season was successful - so we are going to see more returning players - which I know some do not like.

 

[Erin]

BTW- Sophie during that final council. That is the stuff that memes are made of.

Yes, I was wondering if she was still sick during that tribal council? She was just not wanting to be there.

Did you notice in the Zoom pic - Sandra had a tiara!

Yes!! I loved that!

 

[Jenny]

And I think Rob is listened to by the jury.

I had to laugh when Amber made a big show of looking conflicted when she went to vote.

The question about [Natalie] isolating herself on Exile - interesting that she knows that about herself and I liked her answer.

I appreciated that too. While I did appreciate that both Tony and Ben wanted to do things a little differently, I also get tired of all the crap about loyalty and friendships and integrity etc etc. It's a game.

And I so love how [Tony] talked about making himself financially stable - not save the world type comments.

Me too. Maybe he had wanted to say more - Jeff literally gave him time for half a sentence - but in these times, in that country, with two little kids and a job that puts you in danger on a regular basis, after taxes and all that, yeah that would be my priority too. So many winners have said they will save the world, and then they head straight to Hollywood anyway.

Another thing - I actually really loved Jeff's garage set up, and the way he revealed it. That was fun!

 

[tony]

By the way, Survivor is casting for season 43. Not 41 or 42, but 43. So are the next two seasons actually done?

I guess they could’ve already decided on the casts for the next two seasons but that might be a long time of them waiting..

 

[Habs]

Me too. Maybe he had wanted to say more - Jeff literally game him time for half a sentence - but in these times, in that country, with two little kids and a job that puts you in danger on a regular basis, after taxes and all that, yeah that would be my priority too. So many winners have said they will save the world, and then they head straight to Hollywood anyway.

I loved Tony's answer too. It was honest and refreshing. He played great all season and I'm happy he won - he's a very deserving 2-time winner.

My two all-time favourite winners are still Yul and Ethan. I was when Ethan mentioned the charity that he helped start with his winnings actually helped fund the treatment that saved his life.

 

[love skating]

I was in the minority rooting against Tony, but he deserved the win. Congrats to him - though I didn't care for most of his answers during final tribal - esp. saying he made no missteps. I was so mad that all season long people did not vote out Tony or at least break up him and Sarah. At least Nat did that in the end! Go Nat! It would have been interesting though to see how the votes would have gone if both Sarah and Tony were there in the end.

The one I really did not like all season long was Ben and then he was so stupid in the end. I don't understand why he wanted to go to the end with two of the strongest players with the strongest resumes with one of the tightest bond between the two of them. And then he tells Sarah you can vote him out?! What?

I'm also getting tired of the fire making challenge. At least this one was more interesting/suspenseful. But it's gotten too predictable - I'd like them to shake it up and think of some other challenges.

 

[Jenny]

At least Nat did that in the end! Go Nat! It would have been interesting though to see how the votes would have gone if both Sarah and Tony were there in the end.

Was it really such a big achievement though? She never went after Tony or Sarah directly - she went after the weakest link instead. And as I said, when you're down to only a handful, alliances break themselves up anyway. The only thing that doesn't break is a strong two person alliance - one everyone knew existed from before the game started - and yet Natalie, like everyone else, didn't attack it directly, and never wrote either of their names down. It's interesting to note that while Tony never got a single vote against him, Sarah's achievement is also remarkable all things considered - she had only two votes, by Rob and Adam each on the day they were voted out.

 

[BaileyCatts]

King Tony!!!!

 

[ryanj07]

I hadn't seen Survivor in years but made a commitment to watch this season since some of my old favorites like Parvati, Ethan, Sandra, Yul, etc. were on again. Once they all were voted out, I quickly lost interest. It's sad because I randomly stumbled upon Survivor as a kid when season 2 premiered after the super bowl and was hooked for practically a decade but I just don't enjoy it that much anymore.