From Russia with Love [#35]: Winter 2019

But posters point out Eteri's inability to coach a skater past puberty because that's her track record. Numbers don't lie.

Can someone please tell my why "puberty" is suddenly so important? It is not an official "criteria" in sports. Age and scores/medals are.

Coaches have never before been evaluated on "puberty" factors of their skaters.... until Eteri's success.

Many coaches don't have skaters over 25, over 30. Yet there are skaters over 25 and over 30 who want to compete and win, but can't because of "younger skaters".

There are skaters who want to compete, but have plans to go to college when they turn 18. They do want to win as much as possible before 18. We have many such names in USA as well.

If the factor of "puberty" as a "criteria" introduced in sports, then females would have to go through physical examinations, quite invasive, for several years, because "puberty" for each female happens at a different age and the start and end of it is relatively subjective.

Coaching a skater to gold after puberty is NOT a legitimate measure of evaluation. The legitimate measure of evaluation is success by Jr and Sr. categories.
 
Loook this has nothing to do with Eteri, there are just certain standards that Russia supports and those it doesn't. Female athletes are little more than pieces of meat if you cannot take the aggravation you do yourself a solid like Lipnitskaya and just tell them where to get off and move on with your life. Look at their singles, pairs and dancers. Look at Sinitsina in 2014 and look at her now. Look at Stepanova in 2017/8 and look at her now. Look at how a number of their singles girls are persecuted for loking like real women. I am so happy for Kostornaia, but what's gonna happen if she doesn't survive puberty? Russian women, though beautiful are not all waifs. Let them all enjoy it while it lasts. There just needs to be a more humane and classy way to make your exit from the sport.
I suspect you are correct, but I hope the "piece of meat" approach is not universal in Russia. I look at Boikova and see a strong healthy teen girl. I worry about Kostornaia as well. But I have learned not to get attached to any Russian skaters.
 
People tend to get impatient and condescending when they don't have answers. You don't need to help me :rofl:. In any case, all the best to Alina. I will miss her beautiful face.
Are you talking about yourself, because that is what it came across?

A 17 year Olympic and World champion, who has won everything to win is taking a break and you are going after her coach for the wrong technique. For your record, she reached the GPFs, which is still a top 6 athlete. With your comments you are trying to push your agenda, that is all.
 
I suspect you are correct, but I hope the "piece of meat" approach is not universal in Russia. I look at Boikova and see a strong healthy teen girl. I worry about Kostornaia as well. But I have learned not to get attached to any Russian skaters.
There is no "piece of meat" approach in Russian sports anymore than in any country. Elite athletes in most sports knowingly and willingly submit themselves and their bodies to extreme physical stress, and injuries.

You can not compare "pairs" and "singles" in terms of bodies, different requirements. Boikova is larger than Savchenko, and half of the North Am. and European ladies in pairs. Zabiako is exactly the same height and weight as Boikova (just different body forms). Boikova size is not a criteria, and what you consider "healthy look" is subjective. Savchenko was always small but always healthy.

"Teen girls" can also be post-pubescent. Kostornaya is small-built, she was born this way. Her mother is "small-built". She is not less healthy (due to her size) than Sasha Cohen or Tara Lipinski.
 
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People tend to get impatient and condescending when they don't have answers. You don't need to help me :rofl:. In any case, all the best to Alina. I will miss her beautiful face.
Your argument is that Alina is retiring because she is no longer competitive due to poor technique. As opposed to Tuktamysheva. This makes no sense given their results last and this season. Alina is burned out, she is probably both physically and mentally exhausted. And she won Olympics and Lisa never even made it to Olympics - this is the main reason she is still competing and is motivated.
 
There is no "piece of meat" approach in Russian sports anymore than in any country. Elite athletes in most sports knowingly and willingly submit themselves and their bodies to extreme physical stress, and injuries.

You can not compare "pairs" and "singles" in terms of bodies, different requirements. Boikova is larger than Savchenko, and half of the North Am. and European ladies in pairs. Zabiako is exactly the same height and weight as Boikova (just different body forms). Boikova size is not a criteria, and what you consider "healthy look" is subjective. Savchenko was always small but always healthy.

"Teen girls" can also be post-pubescent. Kostornaya is small-built, she was born this way. Her mother is "small-built". She is not less healthy (due to her size) then Sasha Cohen or Tara Lipinski.

Interesting way of rationalizing things, must be universal.
 
Your argument is that Alina is retiring because she is no longer competitive due to poor technique. As opposed to Tuktamysheva. This makes no sense given their results last and this season. Alina is burned out, she is probably both physically and mentally exhausted. And she won Olympics and Lisa never even made it to Olympics - this is the main reason she is still competing and is motivated.
Ah, but you see..... Tuktamysheva is not with Eteri, her body is not "small and slinky", she has not won anything major much lately, she said/did some rude and provocative things on social media.... And the best part about her - she is clearly beatable by top others even with 3A and quads, and not a shoe-in for the podium.. In the eyes of "some" she is a "adorable underdog" and everything that happens to her is "right".

Alina is part of "evil Eteri's Empire"..... :D
 
Screw the puberty. We want skaters who we can fandom and follow for more than 2 years. Tutberidze has 10 champions and 0 skaters with a seniors career longer than 2 years. All the skaters who have a longer career are not champions. So duuh.
I want another Kostner/Asada/Kim please. Skaters who would stick around for more than 2 years and win. Both. Not one or the other.
 
Screw the puberty. We want skaters who we can fandom and follow for more than 2 years. Tutberidze has 10 champions and 0 skaters with a seniors career longer than 2 years. All the skaters who have a longer career are not champions. So duuh.
I want another Kostner/Asada/Kim please. Skaters who would stick around for more than 2 years and win. Both. Not one or the other.
Well, Asada and Kostner never won Olympics but thought they could so they kept going. You still have them in the form of Medvedeva and Tuktamysheva. Kim won and lost interest immediately, and that's Sotnikova and Zagitova. Not much changed really. Those who win leave, those who loose stay.
 
Screw the puberty. We want skaters who we can fandom and follow for more than 2 years. Tutberidze has 10 champions and 0 skaters with a seniors career longer than 2 years. All the skaters who have a longer career are not champions. So duuh.
I want another Kostner/Asada/Kim please. Skaters who would stick around for more than 2 years and win. Both. Not one or the other.
Selfish. Athletes don't owe anyone longevity. It's their lives.
 
Russia Channel #1 - 24 minute "silent" documentary "Behind the scenes at GPF - Kostornaya, Shcherbakova, Trusova". (another translation "The unseen footage"). Requires no translation, just visual episodes.


The queen retires, long live the Queens
 
Yes the psychology of skating is that you win once and then there's little point continuing.

However, I certainly think there's a lot to be said for winning and then continuing and maybe winning more. I think for example, Hanyu ascended up a notch for winning two Olympic Gold Medals.

While I understand completely Zagitova's decision to retire, separate from that, it's frustrating that there is such high turnover in ladies skating.

The Olympic Gold - which is just one competition- in ladies is often just down more to your birthday and being as young as possible at the perfectly right time.

I feel like in ladies skating, that one medal is not necessarily everything - there's much to be applauded for those ladies who have long careers too.
 
Well, Asada and Kostner never won Olympics but thought they could so they kept going. You still have them in the form of Medvedeva and Tuktamysheva. Kim won and lost interest immediately, and that's Sotnikova and Zagitova. Not much changed really. Those who win leave, those who loose stay.
Asada, Koatner, Kim won the worlds several times after I remembered their names (aka their career was longer than 2-3 years in seniors).
Will give Tuktamysheva a benefit of a doubt.

Sotnikova/Zagitova/Medvedeva/Tsurskaya/Lipnitskaya - all showed up and disappeared after 2 years (am sceptical about Medvedeva making it to the team, never mind winning the Olympics).
 
I saw someone make a list of how it would be if men retired as young as women in skating. The world would never have seen a lot of very important achievements of Hanyu, Chan, Fernandez, Chen etc.

am sceptical about Medvedeva making it to the team, never mind winning the Olympics

As long as Medvedeva wants to fight, I would not count her out. Who would have ever believed a couple of years ago that Tuktamysheva would jump a 4T3T combination? I think the key is genuinely wanting to fight.
 
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Asada, Koatner, Kim won the worlds several times after I remembered their names (aka their career was longer than 2-3 years in seniors).
Will give Tuktamysheva a benefit of a doubt.

Sotnikova/Zagitova/Medvedeva/Tsurskaya/Lipnitskaya - all showed up and disappeared after 2 years (am sceptical about Medvedeva making it to the team, never mind winning the Olympics).

Kim and Kostner (not sure about Asada) never had this kind of competition internally (i.e at Nationals) though and never had to deal with quads or increasing technical difficulty every season.

Competition is way tougher than what it was. Not sure how much longevity they would have had if they had to deal with such challenges.. In the last few years we went from having 2 triple triples being considered technically difficult to backloading and 3 lutz-3 loop being considered technically difficult to quads and triple axels. This is since 2016-2017.

Kostner has zero competition at Italian Nationals still. Heck she could come back and skate at Olympics in 2026
 
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Yes the psychology of skating is that you win once and then there's little point continuing.

However, I certainly think there's a lot to be said for winning and then continuing and maybe winning more. I think for example, Hanyu ascended up a notch for winning two Olympic Gold Medals.

Yep. This really puts into perspective how amazing it is he's still competing and at the top after TWO Olympic wins.
 
Yep. This really puts into perspective how amazing it is he's still competing and at the top after TWO Olympic wins.

The arms race in mens was insane. It went from two quad toes giving you a huge advantage to having men jump 4 different kinds of quads in the free. But interestingly, this arms race has been with the same group of men.
 
Asada, Koatner, Kim won the worlds several times after I remembered their names (aka their career was longer than 2-3 years in seniors).
Will give Tuktamysheva a benefit of a doubt.

Sotnikova/Zagitova/Medvedeva/Tsurskaya/Lipnitskaya - all showed up and disappeared after 2 years (am sceptical about Medvedeva making it to the team, never mind winning the Olympics).

Adelina Sotnikova competed 4 seasons in seniors.:swoon:

Medvedeva & Liza are doing what they can. They are attempting to have full careers in the sport and to continue progressing. Whether they make the podium in a couple years, who knows? But what I've seen from them is certainly not disappearing.

The arms race in mens was insane. It went from two quad toes giving you a huge advantage to having men jump 4 different kinds of quads in the free. But interestingly, this arms race has been with the same group of men.

And interestingly the bronze medal at the GPF was just won by a man with a single landed quad toe.
 
Yes the psychology of skating is that you win once and then there's little point continuing.
It depends on a skater, what one's goals are in life.
Tara Lipinski won only once WC at 14 and Olys at 15, and has not been off TV since... She is a media/host/commentator celebrity, with her own shows and a steady career.... that's longevity for you.. :lol:

Sarah Hughes won only once, at 15 and given her family's back ground and history, would not think to live her life without great education and a respectable career. She finished high school with honors, and went to Yale, majored in Poli-Sci and then to University of Pennsylvania Law School... :D Had she stayed and kept banging her body on ice, who knows what her future might have been.

And yet i've seen a lot of negativity against Lipinski and Hughes, not because they were young, but because many fans wanted "the other girl to win".. After 2002 "those fans" even started spreading rumors about Hughes' mental condition handicap she supposedly had from birth. And some fans of "that same girl" still finding faults with Lipinski after her every public appearance..

However, I certainly think there's a lot to be said for winning and then continuing and maybe winning more. I think for example, Hanyu ascended up a notch for winning two Olympic Gold Medals.
Plushenko went to 4 Olys, and has 2 Golds (1 singles and 1 team), and 2 silvers. Skated from 1990's into 2014. But... not many were happy about it, especially on english-language FS chats and forums. Found every possible excuse to find "something wrong with him" and critiqued him for "taking up space of the younger guys and holding back progress".

So basically, there is NO truth in pro or con "longevity in skating" argument. It is all about skaters' choice.
And weather it is good or bad, all depends if one likes a person/skater or not, and the "rhetoric" is adjusted accordingly... :lol:

While I understand completely Zagitova's decision to retire, separate from that, it's frustrating that there is such high turnover in ladies skating.
It's not about "you". It's about a skater, whose legal obligations are to show up and skate one's best at the assigned competitions, to conduct themselves properly in public while competing. The rest is optional.. :D

The Olympic Gold - which is just one competition- in ladies is often just down more to your birthday and being as young as possible at the perfectly right time.
One's birthday is administratively determining factor, in terms of cut-off dates, in many aspects of life - school, university, jobs, government programmes, quotas. Sometimes people do miss once in a life time opportunity or a major financial benefit because of it. That's life.

I feel like in ladies skating, that one medal is not necessarily everything - there's much to be applauded for those ladies who have long careers too.
It does not matter "what it is" to you or to me. it's about what a skater thinks "is everything" to him or her.

I think this whole thing answers the question of why everyone overreacts when a lady has a bad skate and the same thing doesn't happen in mens.
:D not too many men had a "good skate" lately... they lowered the bar on their gender.. :slinkaway:biggrinbo
 
And how did Hanyu's fans react this week? ;)

LOL ha ha yes fair point.

I should have been more specific. No one is overreacting in saying that Hanyu's career is over and he is doomed. His is more of a fan wars on steroids kind of thing.

I meant that in mens its quite accepted that a skater can have a nightmare skate one week and then absolutely crush it and succeed the next.
 
Well, this is certainly sad news, but I hope Alina can go out on her own terms. She’s already won everything, and I think she will have a bright future ahead of her in life. She’s a smart, well-spoken, beautiful young woman and the world is her oyster.
 
Russia Channel #1 - 24 minute "silent" documentary "Behind the scenes at GPF - Kostornaya, Shcherbakova, Trusova". (another translation "The unseen footage"). Requires no translation, just visual episodes.


The queen retires, long live the Queens
Do you remember your posts when you wrote that Zagitova will compete until Beijing included? :D
 
Coaching a skater to gold after puberty is NOT a legitimate measure of evaluation. The legitimate measure of evaluation is success by Jr and Sr. categories.

But you can't deny that being able to coach a skater through puberty, male or female, and help them adjust to their physical (and mental) challenges is important to being an all-around good coach.
 
New article on Zagitova's decision

Reads: "Alina Zagitova announces that she will suspend her career indefinitely"

To translate, go to settings in Google Chrome
 

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