Royalty Thread #10 -Archie Phase 2 - Bold and Bald Still

[Jenny]

I think in some ways it's worse because it's happening now, there's no hindsight or perspective, it's all live and in motion and in front of us.

And of course times change. In the 80s there was no social media obviously, but further there wasn't a need for media and other outlets to have a continual stream of content that keeps people coming back (and thus boosting ad revenue etc etc). In other words, they need more, and in the absence of actual news, they do a lot of other things liking stretching things over several stories, repeating/repackaging/recycling old stories, relying on "sources" that in the past would have never passed the credibility test, and frankly making things up just to keep it going in a neverending loop.

Then there's us. It wasn't long ago that it was really easy to avoid tabloids. You simply turned away at the supermarket checkout line, or at most you glanced through the headlines, had a laugh and moved on. Now, it's harder to avoid - it's all over our social feeds, it's peppered into mainstream media that need those extra clicks just like everyone else, and there's so much coming at us (even in elevators and doctors offices at this point) that after awhile you don't even remember where you heard something, and you have no time to actually think it through, investigate the sources etc.

Kate is in the middle of it too, but let us remember that she came along in that very tentative period following Diana's death when everyone felt at least a little bit of guilt that the most famous woman in the world was killed running away from paparazzi. And they were in the relatively closed world of school, among their peers and before everyone started making videos on their phones. And William was still young, Harry even younger. And Kate didn't provide much in the way of storylines - just another well bred girl among the many others William and Harry dated, nothing interesting in her background, nothing really to go on. And of course even there, she's had some very rough spots too (topless pictures taken with long lenses lest we forget).

Anyway, so yeah it's not about which of the royal women has had the hardest time, it's not that simple.

 

[floskate]

How is what Meghan has been through worse than what Kate, Camilla, Fergie and Diana went through?

You see to me, this is part of the problem in regard to mental health. What does it matter who had the worst press? I'd argue that Kate herself gets off pretty lightly because she's a yes girl. Does what she's told, always looks amazing, isn't particularly articulate, would rather die than raise her head above the parapet etc. She's a courtiers dream.

Of course Diana and Sarah and Camilla must have suffered horribly, but your inference that they just got on with it so why can't Meghan just shut up - that's my impression of your subtext at any rate - is the kind of attitude that makes people keep quiet about their mental health issues. I wanted to post publicly about what I have been dealing with to set the record straight due to ongoing gossip about my continued absence from work (there were rumours that I had cancer) and everyone from fellow sufferers to my actual therapist told me NOT to do it. I'd never work again, I could be blackmailed....I just couldn't believe the reaction.

Those of us suffering in silence NEED Harry and Meghan to speak out and break the mould. They can pave the way. Their honesty should be admired not derided.

 

[Parsley Sage]

You see to me, this is part of the problem in regard to mental health. What does it matter who had the worst press? I'd argue that Kate herself gets off pretty lightly because she's a yes girl. Does what she's told, always looks amazing, isn't particularly articulate, would rather die than raise her head above the parapet etc. She's a courtiers dream.

Of course Diana and Sarah and Camilla must have suffered horribly, but your inference that they just got on with it so why can't Meghan just shut up - that's my impression of your subtext at any rate - is the kind of attitude that makes people keep quiet about their mental health issues. I wanted to post publicly about what I have been dealing with to set the record straight due to ongoing gossip about my continued absence from work (there were rumours that I had cancer) and everyone from fellow sufferers to my actual therapist told me NOT to do it. I'd never work again, I could be blackmailed....I just couldn't believe the reaction.

Those of us suffering in silence NEED Harry and Meghan to speak out and break the mould. They can pave the way. Their honesty should be admired not derided.

Your impression is wrong. There have been mental health issues in my own family and I lost a parent at a younger age than Harry and William did.

I've been seeing comments (not necessarily here) that what Meghan and Harry are experiencing is so much worse than what others have experienced and I wanted to know why. I remember when Diana and Kate would be dealing with swarms of paparazzi every morning when they left their flats to go to work. To me, that is worse than negative tabloid articles.

They should speak about their struggles but I don't think a documentary about a trip to South Africa is the place to do it.

 

[puglover]

The ugly press aside - who need to be called out - I can't see how public examination of family relationships is ever helpful. These are the most complex connections each of us have and it is almost impossible for those outside to really understand the dynamics. My husband, who had been the major emotional support for his younger brother for decades, finally gave him some tough medicine a few years ago. He was very concerned about his brother's decision making and cautioned him pointedly. It has caused a huge rift and he rebuffs all attempts to heal it - as well as voicing his feelings of being wronged to anyone who will listen. I believe the warning was issued out of love and concern but certainly not received as such. However, I feel my husband still feels he needed to say what he did. Thankfully they are not public figures as the royals are.

 

[floskate]

Your impression is wrong. There have been mental health issues in my own family and I lost a parent at a younger age than Harry and William did.

I'm sorry to hear that. I too lost my Father when I was only 4 years old. However everything we post on the internet is open to interpretation, positively and negatively. Jumping to a negative conclusion is one of my triggers so I always strive to ensure that what I'm trying to say is as clear as possible and difficult to misinterpret. Perhaps you would care to do elucidate on what the purpose of your initial post was?

 

[canbelto]

I can personally speak to mental health still being stigmatized even among people who should know better. I teach in a school and was teaching about the nervous system. I talked about how chemical imbalances can cause depression and other mental health issues.

The next day i was called into the principal's office. Said talking about mental health was "inappropriate" and I should have instead talked about the "power of positive thinking." Was given a written warning about my curriculum. This principal has two masters.

But as for William saying he was "worried," this is how I actually think SOMETIMES overreaction to talking to the press can be as bad as oversharing. If he's worried he's worried, and if he tells reporters he's worried then he's also telling reporters that he cares about his brother. Now if he followed that up with doing nothing that'd be one thing. But if he follows up by taking steps to ensure Harry gets the help and support he needs there's nothing wrong with what he did.

As for who had it "worse," I agree, it's not a competition. People are wired differently. Harry saying even flashbulbs trigger him to me is a red flag that help is needed immediately, and it's not going to get better.

 

[Lorac]

@Lorac regardless of whether William has been in contact or not, the very obvious press leak yesterday over his being "worried" left a bad taste in my mouth. Damage limitation because Harry basically called him out over their rift in front of the entire nation.

We are clearly seeing this issue form different places. We have no idea who caused the so called 'rift' in the first place a - and enough has been written about how Harry reacted when William tried to talk to Harry about speed of his relationship with Meghan to speculate that Harry could be the main culprit there - but to assume it was William and that Harry 'called him out' isn't how I saw that part of the interview. Again we have no idea when the brothers spoke and if it was before or after sources spoke to the press about William being worried about his brother and Meghan.

To be honest William is pretty much in a no win situation with some people - if he spoke up he is accused of damage limitation, if he didn't he would be accused of not caring. Hopefully the brothers can work out their situation and that Harry and Meghan take care of themselves and Archie.

 

[easilydistracte]

Meanwhile in Japan, Emperor Naruhito has been officially enthroned:

Naruhito: Japan's emperor proclaims enthronement in ancient ceremony

The elaborate ceremony, conducted largely in silence, is thought to date back more than a thousand years.

www.bbc.com

More pictures here:

In photos: Japan's Emperor Naruhito's enthronement | CNN

In a centuries-old ceremony, Japan's Emperor Naruhito proclaimed his enthronement on Tuesday.

www.cnn.com

Thanks for this post! Wonderful pictures showing some awe-inspiring imperial regalia.

 

[Vagabond]

How is what Meghan has been through worse than what Kate, Camilla, Fergie and Diana went through?

In addition to everything that has been posted already in response to this question, I would like to add that none of those four women was or has been subjected to racist abuse.

 

[Jenny]

I might argue that Camilla had it just as hard but for different reasons that Meghan. It's Camilla who replaced the sainted Diana, who wrecked her fairytale marriage and broke up her family, who was the scarlet woman behind Diana's miserable life before during and after her marriage to Charles - an idea that to this day many - including the history books - will not forgive her for.

I think it's also worth remembering - not that this makes up for anything but it's a point within the broader discussion - that Meghan does actually receive a tremendous amount of positive support in the media, on social and blogs and among a large contingent of fans who love and admire her, are excited about her child, enjoyed her wedding thoroughly and are honestly interested in her, and who want her marriage to work. Has Camilla ever had any of that?

 

[mag]

Kate Middleton and Prince William Welcome Camila Cabello to Their Palace Home for a Special Reason

Kate Middleton and Prince William welcomed some truly inspirational teenagers and singer Camila Cabello into their Kensington Palace home on Tuesday morning.

people.com

 

[mag]

I think it's also worth remembering - not that this makes up for anything but it's a point within the broader discussion - that Meghan does actually receive a tremendous amount of positive support in the media, on social and blogs and among a large contingent of fans who love and admire her, are excited about her child, enjoyed her wedding thoroughly and are honestly interested in her, and who want her marriage to work. Has Camilla ever had any of that?

Camilla has had and continues to have a tough go of it. I heard an interview with a past member of the royal press pack who spoke about how hard Camilla has worked to get to know the press and to bring them along on her journey so that they see the real her and the work she is doing. She is very much a roll up your sleeves and get at it kind of person. This same reporter commented that there has been no attempt, as far as she know, by Meghan to get to know the press pack or engage with them in any significant way. Whether this was Harry’s doing or Meghan’s or a combination of the two, she didn’t know.

I think Meghan and Harry have tumbled so far down the rabbit hole that they can no longer see the positives. They appear to be thrashing around looking for someone or something to blame. At this point, I think they need professional help and support to get themselves sorted. Trying to decide who has had it worse, like life is some kind of competitive sport, is not useful and it doesn’t really matter. Harry & Meghan need help. It was hard to watch even just clips of their documentary. I hope they get the support they need to get healthy so they can make smart, informed choices for their family.

 

[puglover]

I believe I read somewhere that Meghan was so unfamiliar with the royal family that she really was somewhat uncertain as to who Harry was in the very beginning. I would think growing up in the UK, especially within the royal circle, would at least be some preparation and give one some idea of what to expect. If the media is to be believed, it seems that several of Harry's relationships with former girlfriends ended because they did not want to live in the fish bowl with it's associated pressures. The Canadian born Autumn Kelly, who is married to Princess Anne's son, seems to have really resisted the media and to have been somewhat protected from it by Buckingham Palace. I realize Harry is much more high profile and certainly members of her family have provided juicy fodder so I can truly believe she has been blindsided by it all.

 

[Winnipeg]

In addition to everything that has been posted already in response to this question, I would like to add that none of those four women was or has been subjected to racist abuse.

True, but Camilla was often compared to or referred to as looking like a horse. Not nice either.

 

[Winnipeg]

So, if Anne and Edward escaped all the press successfully, why can't Harry and Meghan?

 

[antmanb]

True, but Camilla was often compared to or referred to as looking like a horse. Not nice either.

Erm.....the nicest thing I can think to say to this as those two things aren’t even vaguely comparable and it’s beyond insensitive to imply that they are.

 

[mag]

So, if Anne and Edward escaped all the press successfully, why can't Harry and Meghan?

Anne and Edward are a lot older and neither escaped the press when younger. There was also no social media when they were young. Again, Harry and Meghan may not be capable of distinguishing right now, but I think we all should be able to.

Harry and Meghan also want media attention and the power it gives them to be “agents of change.” They are very active on social media and want people to visit their various sites.

But the discussion is really past that point. The two of them are clearly in crisis and need a clear headed, responsible person who loves them to step in and help them formulate a plan to heal and move on with their lives.

 

[Parsley Sage]

I believe I read somewhere that Meghan was so unfamiliar with the royal family that she really was somewhat uncertain as to who Harry was in the very beginning. I would think growing up in the UK, especially within the royal circle, would at least be some preparation and give one some idea of what to expect. If the media is to be believed, it seems that several of Harry's relationships with former girlfriends ended because they did not want to live in the fish bowl with it's associated pressures. The Canadian born Autumn Kelly, who is married to Princess Anne's son, seems to have really resisted the media and to have been somewhat protected from it by Buckingham Palace. I realize Harry is much more high profile and certainly members of her family have provided juicy fodder so I can truly believe she has been blindsided by it all.

And I have seen articles that state Meghan was a fan of Diana, had some books about her and watched her funeral.

 

[ballettmaus]

I might argue that Camilla had it just as hard but for different reasons that Meghan. It's Camilla who replaced the sainted Diana, who wrecked her fairytale marriage and broke up her family, who was the scarlet woman behind Diana's miserable life before during and after her marriage to Charles - an idea that to this day many - including the history books - will not forgive her for.

While Kate didn't replace Diana, I can't imagine that the whole "it's a tribute to Diana" frenzy is easy to deal with either. Was there a single outfit that she wore in Pakistan that wasn't considered a tribute to Diana?

I think Kate may be better at ignoring it all but she also had a lot more time to get used to the idea than Meghan did. As I said before, I think Kate and William are handling the media much better than Harry and Meghan which is probably also making it easier on them. That said, I wouldn't want to trade places with any of them because I don't think any of them have it easy with regards to lack of privacy and being put under a miscroscope by the press.

 

[PDilemma]

I might argue that Camilla had it just as hard but for different reasons that Meghan. It's Camilla who replaced the sainted Diana, who wrecked her fairytale marriage and broke up her family, who was the scarlet woman behind Diana's miserable life before during and after her marriage to Charles - an idea that to this day many - including the history books - will not forgive her for.

I think it's also worth remembering - not that this makes up for anything but it's a point within the broader discussion - that Meghan does actually receive a tremendous amount of positive support in the media, on social and blogs and among a large contingent of fans who love and admire her, are excited about her child, enjoyed her wedding thoroughly and are honestly interested in her, and who want her marriage to work. Has Camilla ever had any of that?

And that contingent of fans also trashes Kate regularly on her behalf. No one expects her to speak up to stop or counter that.

 

[canbelto]

I've been following a lot of news in the UK and it seems as if a lot of the Brexit debate has brought out the racism in society the way Trump has in the U.S. A lot of British politicians are getting a lot of vile racist attacks. I actually had to report someone on a British ballet board because she referred to the British population as needing to stay "white Aryan." Yeah.

 

[canbelto]

And that contingent of fans also trashes Kate regularly on her behalf. No one expects her to speak up to stop or counter that.

Well ... actually I wish Kate would speak up about the contingent of white supremacist fans she has. The KP Instagram account has to work so hard to delete white supremacy comments whenever there's a post with Kate. It's really vile and I know that sometimes acknowledging a demented fanbase is giving them attention they crave but simply deleting "Our White Queen" comments isn't helping.

 

[PDilemma]

Well ... actually I wish Kate would speak up about the contingent of white supremacist fans she has. The KP Instagram account has to work so hard to delete white supremacy comments whenever there's a post with Kate. It's really vile and I know that sometimes acknowledging a demented fanbase is giving them attention they crave but simply deleting "Our White Queen" comments isn't helping.

The Meghan fangirls have spread the completely baseless rumors of William cheating which affects two marriages and five young children. There’s some evidence that one “anti-Kate/pro-Meghan Twitter account may have been the first place that was put out into the world. It’s not just mild insults. It’s damaging lies. Meghan says in the documentary that she just wants truth and fairness. Then she needs to ask for that to apply to everyone. And Harry should know after 35 years in this world that lies about members of the family aren’t new or exclusively about him and his wife.

I read the KP IG. I’ve never seen those comments. They are deleting them promptly. And they do block repeat offenders as I’ve seen people whining about being blocked around the “Royal web”.

 

[canbelto]

The Meghan fangirls have spread the completely baseless rumors of William cheating which affects two marriages and five young children. There’s some evidence that one “anti-Kate/pro-Meghan Twitter account may have been the first place that was put out into the world. It’s not just mild insults. It’s damaging lies. Meghan says in the documentary that she just wants truth and fairness. Then she needs to ask for that to apply to everyone. And Harry should know after 35 years in this world that lies about members of the family aren’t new or exclusively about him and his wife.

I read the KP IG. I’ve never seen those comments. They are deleting them promptly. And they do block repeat offenders as I’ve seen people whining about being blocked around the “Royal web”.

I know they block repeat offenders and in one case called child protective services on one account. It is exhausting but I do see the comments and then they're gone. But it's insane that the white supremacists are even making these comments repeatedly. This stuff imo shouldn't be happening period.

 

[mag]

Well ... actually I wish Kate would speak up about the contingent of white supremacist fans she has. The KP Instagram account has to work so hard to delete white supremacy comments whenever there's a post with Kate. It's really vile and I know that sometimes acknowledging a demented fanbase is giving them attention they crave but simply deleting "Our White Queen" comments isn't helping.

I think given the palace has made a public statement about comments both Meghan and Kate have received along with the fact they have a whole team people working around the clock monitoring Royal social media, I think they would have received the best advice possible about how to deal with it. I am sure Kate never reads it. Meghan should also never be reading anything that has not been scrubbed although apparently she reads a lot and it has not been healthy for her. Prince Charles banned all tabloids from his homes when he was married to Diana. He did not want her reading that garbage and did his best to protect her from it.

I said this earlier, there is no way Meghan or Harry should even be aware of most of the crap out there. There is no reason for them to be surfing social media, YouTube, or similar sites, or watching trashy morning shows, or reading tabloid papers. Just get on with your life and your job.

 

[barbk]

Japanese evening reception after the enthronement questions:

Japan's Emperor Naruhito and wife attend glittering banquet in Tokyo

Emperor Naruhito and his wife Empress Masako exchanged ceremonial robes for white tie evening wear as they attended a banquet to mark his formal ascension to the Chrysanthemum Throne.

www.dailymail.co.uk

What are the things that look like seals on the jackets worn by many of the royal men? And what's the deal with the chain-like necklaces they're wearing? (They look like a bunch of spiffed up sommeliers.)

Masako, Letizia and Maxima (among others) are wearing what looks like orange sashes with a red band running along each edge. Victoria's looks to be red banded with purple. Meaning? (Well, one meaning is that some folks clearly kept the orange deal in mind when planning colors for evening gowns.)

Jetsun continues to be drop dead gorgeous.

Meanwhile, the US sent the Secretary of Transportation.

 

[MsZem]

What are the things that look like seals on the jackets worn by many of the royal men? And what's the deal with the chain-like necklaces they're wearing? (They look like a bunch of spiffed up sommeliers.)

Masako, Letizia and Maxima (among others) are wearing what looks like orange sashes with a red band running along each edge. Victoria's looks to be red banded with purple. Meaning? (Well, one meaning is that some folks clearly kept the orange deal in mind when planning colors for evening gowns.)

They're royal orders - specifically variations of the Order of the Chrysanthemum that foreign royals have received. They wear the highest order bestowed by the country they are visiting.

 

[VALuvsMKwan]

I think given the palace has made a public statement about comments both Meghan and Kate have received along with the fact they have a whole team people working around the clock monitoring Royal social media, I think they would have received the best advice possible about how to deal with it. I am sure Kate never reads it. Meghan should also never be reading anything that has not been scrubbed although apparently she reads a lot and it has not been healthy for her. Prince Charles banned all tabloids from his homes when he was married to Diana. He did not want her reading that garbage and did his best to protect her from it.

I said this earlier, there is no way Meghan or Harry should even be aware of most of the crap out there. There is no reason for them to be surfing social media, YouTube, or similar sites, or watching trashy morning shows, or reading tabloid papers. Just get on with your life and your job.

One could suggest that any number of posters in this and several other threads (even if said posters aren't part of royal families, or athletes, or entertainers) could profit from this same advice, could one not?

 

[loopey]

You see to me, this is part of the problem in regard to mental health. What does it matter who had the worst press? I'd argue that Kate herself gets off pretty lightly because she's a yes girl. Does what she's told, always looks amazing, isn't particularly articulate, would rather die than raise her head above the parapet etc. She's a courtiers dream.

Of course Diana and Sarah and Camilla must have suffered horribly, but your inference that they just got on with it so why can't Meghan just shut up - that's my impression of your subtext at any rate - is the kind of attitude that makes people keep quiet about their mental health issues. I wanted to post publicly about what I have been dealing with to set the record straight due to ongoing gossip about my continued absence from work (there were rumours that I had cancer) and everyone from fellow sufferers to my actual therapist told me NOT to do it. I'd never work again, I could be blackmailed....I just couldn't believe the reaction.

Those of us suffering in silence NEED Harry and Meghan to speak out and break the mould. They can pave the way. Their honesty should be admired not derided.

Thank you for posting this. It's very sincere, thought provoking and "real".

 

[MsZem]

Thank you for posting this. It's very sincere, thought provoking and "real".

The post in question was also dragging one woman to lift up another. That is not something to applaud.

Kate is not a mannequin. Meghan is not a drama queen. They're two lovely, intelligent women who are doing their best with the reality rather than the fairytale of being married to a prince.