Royalty Thread #8.....A Pregnant Pause

[mag]

Yes! How dare her friends throw Meghan a baby shower! The nerve of them!

A shower is a request for gifts. That is why traditionally it is not thrown by a member of the family because it is seen as impolite to ask for gifts. Generally speaking, royalty do not have showers and in recent times have asked for donations to worthy causes instead of wedding gifts (I believe this is what H&M did.) Anyway, I suspect that it will be a celebration and not a gift giving event or perhaps Meghan’s friends will donate to a local children’s charity in lieu of gifts. The media are, I am sure, just calling it a shower.

 

[cygnus]

The biggest objection I saw is that she is a divorcee and not Anglican. Either of those could/should have been deal breakers.....not her skin tone.

She was baptised into the Anglican church before the wedding (although she didn't need to do this, constitutionally speaking), so there can be no objections to this one.

 

[skatfan]

A shower is a request for gifts. That is why traditionally it is not thrown by a member of the family because it is seen as impolite to ask for gifts. Generally speaking, royalty do not have showers and in recent times have asked for donations to worthy causes instead of wedding gifts (I believe this is what H&M did.) Anyway, I suspect that it will be a celebration and not a gift giving event or perhaps Meghan’s friends will donate to a local children’s charity in lieu of gifts. The media are, I am sure, just calling it a shower.

If it is her friends giving the shower and they give her gifts (pretty sure that will happen) the world will not come to an end and it won’t be crass, it is what friends do here in the US.

 

[Japanfan]

If it is her friends giving the shower and they give her gifts (pretty sure that will happen) the world will not come to an end and it won’t be crass, it is what friends do here in the US.

No, but Megan will then have to cart all those gifts back to the UK by plane. Or more likely, ship them.

Of course she can afford the costs of the shipping. But still, it's a hassle.

But given that she wants for nothing, a lot of gifts don't don't really make sense.

Maybe the friends can pool their resources and buy one expensive item that Megan can remember them by - but again, she wants for nothing.

In any case, I'm sure Megan's friends have worked it out. And Megan may have helped them out by specifying 'no gifts'.

 

[Lorac]

No, but Megan will then have to cart all those gifts back to the UK by plane. Or more likely, ship them.

Of course she can afford the costs the shipping. But still, it's a hassle.

But given that she wants for nothing, a lot of gifts don't don't really make sense.

Maybe the friends can pool their resources and buy one expensive item that Megan can remember them by - but again, she wants for nothing.

In any case, I'm sure Megan's friends have worked it out. And Megan may have helped them out by specifying 'no gifts'.

I was just going to say more or less the same thing. I severely doubt Meghan has been given anything large - more than likely small personal items - if she received any gifts - like a specially made teddy bear or items like that. The press do like to speculate but in this case there is really no story - just a group of friends celebrating a special moment in a close friends life.

 

[MLIS]

For all the privileges, wealth, and positives that come with royalty, in the last eighteen months Meghan has also given up her career, her home, her friends, and a lot of her personal identity and voice. She has been under relentless attack from not only the media and certain factions of the public, but people you would expect to love her and protect her (parent and siblings). She has also gotten married and is expecting her first child -- both positive things, but major, life-changing events. I think an afternoon celebrating with her girlfriends in a time-honoured tradition is exactly what she needs. We could have afforded everything we needed for our own baby, too. Our friends and family gave us showers because they wanted to share in a happy time with us. It's not really about the gifts, although all the gifts we received were cherished and used. It's about the community.

 

[taf2002]

Don't forget she also gave up one dog.

 

[mag]

An interesting take on the possible damage Meghan’s friends may have caused with there interview with People magazine.

https://www.macleans.ca/royalty/meg...term=royalty&utm_content=0#Echobox=1549665542

 

[AxelAnnie]

Mag - thank you for the link. This snippet sums it up quite nicely for me:

Meghan isn’t a Hollywood actress anymore. She’s a member of the royal family, and will be in the public eye for decades. Planting an ultra-positive story in an American magazine isn’t going to stop negative stories. Time and hard work will accomplish that.

 

[Jenny]

I have to agree with the assessment. I cringed when I saw the headlines about the Clooneys "speaking out" on behalf of Meghan not long ago, and this People story is so obviously a PR ploy. Royal etiquette aside, it's just bad PR strategy in so many ways.

 

[Lorac]

I agree with the article posted by @mag and the last line does sum it up in a nutshell - it was a PR stunt that hasn't had the desired impact. But having said that I feel for Meghan. She must be desperately lonely with all her close friends and her Mother being an ocean and a continent away. She has had 4 major life changes in the past 18 months - leaving a job she loved, moving countries where she doesn't really know anyone except her fiancé, getting married and expecting her first child. All these changes are pretty stressful and she has the added issues of her totally dysfunctional family on her fathers side and she must feel beaten down on occasion. It's not easy for her to call some one to chat to and unload - what with the times differences etc. so I can see why friends have tried to rally round in the Hollywood way they have - though Clooney's comments were just way OTT IMO.

Making new friends here in the UK was never going to be easy either as they are going to be Harry's friends and probably William's and Kate's as well. There will be history there - especially if they knew Harry's ex's - 2 of whom Harry was very in love with before both women chose to end it. Meghan is probably relying on Harry an awful lot and that can be a strain on a relationship - not that I'm saying there is any issues but Harry is probably curtailing his own friendships so as not to leave Meghan alone. Until 2 years ago Meghan had an active online presence and was close to friends so she could chill with them - this has now gone - from her own choices yes - but I do wonder if she really understood the total life change that was going to be thrust on her in marrying Harry. For that reason I'm sure when Meghan has friends visit she is pulling out the stops to make them feel at home - though they have made her out to be a cross between Mother Theresa and June Cleaver - no one is that perfect.

I can therefore understand why she was happy to fly to the US for her baby shower - which apparently was a full blown shower with plenty of gifts - she needed that support at this time. I hope her Mother flies in for the birth and stays for a while - she is going to need that emotional - and feminine - support. Harry will be taking time off from royal duties for a while and be there but at some time his royal duties will resume like William's did - but in Kate's case she had family and friends close by. Meghan won't have as much emotional support - it will be tough for her. So yes the anonymous article in People wasn't a good idea but I can understand why she was OK with her friends to comment like they did - it made her feel supported and cared for and made her feel less lonely.

 

[taf2002]

IMO there is another side to this. If all we hear & read is negative about Meghan at some point some people would probably say "even her own friends don't refute any of the stories so they must be true". People believe what they choose to believe. I doubt the stories championing Meghan changed many minds, if any. But if they're not told then only one story is being told & that one is damaging.

 

[Jenny]

I see plenty of positive stories about Meghan, and tons of photos. Many media outlets are tracking her engagements, fawning over her clothes, gushing about the baby. I can see where they might want some credible support in the form of people who know her very well, but then why were they all anonymous?

Yeah she's been through a lot, but I don't think she's exactly made sacrifices for love, but rather choices. She's moved to a different country before (on her own and without the support of a partner), changed jobs, had serious relationships, and while it's all on a bigger scale I would think she's more prepared for this than most in her situation, including Kate.

And if she's that fabulous it won't be hard to make new friends. Many of her current friends, from what I can tell, have come in recent years anyway, so it's not like she can't make new friends. Not to mention that unlike most of us, she can get on a plane or invite her also well-off friends to stay. Others before her rightly felt cutoff, but today it's easy to stay in touch with friends, even talk to them daily if she wants to.

Plus she's probably more than happy to put an ocean between herself and that family.

 

[aftershocks]

OMG, deliver us please. WTF! I mean, can people relax, please. Thanks to all the people who are responding reasonably, logically, humorously, and even neutrally about this royalty watching, currently heavily focused on the Duchess of Sussex. I knew from the beginning that Prince Harry dating and marrying Meghan Markle would bring up all kinds of emotions in people, and boy has it. Wowza. It just really touches on so many aspects of our culture and history as a human race. Believe it or not.

Meanwhile, they are just two people who fell in love, and who are grateful for their blessings and who are getting on doing the best they can with what God has given them. Would that the OTT gawkers, exploiters, and pesky, negative naysayer critics could do the same.

Thanks so much @MLIS for your spot-on response regarding the baby shower, which you've worded succinctly, resonantly, and in a straightforward, common sense way. Reportedly, Serena Williams helped organize the baby shower along with Jessica Mulroney and probably Lindsay Roth, and Abigail Spencer; actually it was Serena, Jessica, and Genevieve Hillis (a sorority friend from Northwestern) who planned and hosted the baby shower:
https://www.harpersbazaar.com/celeb...han-markle-baby-shower-details-hosts-flowers/
Royal reporter, Omid Scobie (who is credited with having good insider sources) has indicated that a smaller baby shower is expected to take place in London, sometime after Meghan & Harry return from Morocco.

It was lovely to see Meghan enjoying being with her friends. Yesterday evening after the baby shower, Meghan went to dinner at the Polo Club, with her male bff who is like a brother to her, Markus Anderson, along with bffs Serena Williams, and Jessica Mulroney:
http://cdn01.cdn.justjared.com/wp-c...k-city-serena-williams-markus-anderson-01.jpg
https://www.standard.co.uk/insider/...n-markle-baby-shower-soho-house-a4072011.html
https://www.harpersbazaar.com/celebrity/latest/a26425390/meghan-markle-leaving-baby-shower-outfit/

And this article mentions unsubstantiated rumors that differ from the party line about how M&H actually first met. This is the first time I've heard this version of events. which may or may not be accurate:
https://www.townandcountrymag.com/society/tradition/a13085305/markus-anderson-facts/

... I severely doubt Meghan has been given anything large - more than likely small personal items - if she received any gifts - like a specially made teddy bear or items like that. The press do like to speculate but in this case there is really no story - just a group of friends celebrating a special moment in a close friends life.

I wouldn't be so quick to say that Meghan didn't receive any large gift items.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1JNPWSmZD4
https://www.her.ie/celeb/first-gift-meghan-markle-received-baby-shower-451030
https://www.marieclaire.com/celebrity/a26423132/meghan-markle-babyletto-crib-baby-shower/

Just because Harry & Meghan can afford to purchase their own baby supplies, etc., does not mean that Meghan's well-heeled friends are somehow not allowed to give her expensive baby shower gifts. But as @MLIS aptly said, I agree that this gathering is more about 'community,' about supporting a friend at a special time in her life, and about having a good time celebrating the impending birth of the Sussex baby. In case it escaped anyone, Meghan's friends support her, and she supports them.

It really does pay to do a bit of research prior to making assumptions. It's easy to get things wrong or slightly skewed though, especially in today's age of tabloid media and social media trolls.

 

[MsZem]

Seeing the endless coverage of the Duchess of Sussex makes me wonder what the reaction would have been to some of what went on with other European royals if it had involved a British royal. For instance:

• Crown Princess Victoria marrying a guy who was once her personal trainer.
• Prince Carl-Philip marrying a former reality TV contestant and glamour model who'd been photographed wearing a bikini bottom and a snake.
• Crown Prince Haakon marrying a single mother with a history of partying and doing drugs.
• Princess Martha Louise apparently talking to angels.
• King Willem-Alexander (then Prince of Orange) marrying a woman whose father had been a minister in the Argentinian Junta government and who was therefore not invited to the wedding.
• Prince Friso (who has since passed away) giving up his place in the line of succession to marry someone who'd had a relationship (friendly, not romantic) with a drug lord.

There is no amount of money in the world that would make me want to be a British royal Even the tiaras are not worth it.

In more recent happenings, Princess Estelle visited a library and it turns out that Prince Oscar does like something! It is not clear if that something is files, interior design, or the color green.

 

[mag]

Oh dear, backlash to what has been seen by some as a very lavish and indulgent trip.

It said the visit had "prompted a debate about extravagance, style and the environmental impact of crossing the Atlantic in a private jet", including criticism from environmental lobby Friends of the Earth.

She added: "can you be a self-identifying international humanitarian and have a 300,000-plus pounds baby shower held for your already fabulously privileged unborn child?"

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/meg...-uk-media-after-lavish-us-baby-shower-1997924

 

[taf2002]

Conspicuous consumption may be crass but it's not hurting anyone & it can also be good for the economy. I had the same thought about this shower that I had about a $200,000 1st birthday party for a baby but none of us have any right to tell rich people how to spend their money. I don't give anyone the right to criticize how I spend my money & it's the same thing.

 

[mag]

Conspicuous consumption may be crass but it's not hurting anyone & it can also be good for the economy. I had the same thought about this shower that I had about a $200,000 1st birthday party for a baby but none of us have any right to tell rich people how to spend their money. I don't give anyone the right to criticize how I spend my money & it's the same thing.

I agree that it is good when rich people spend their money. I have never understood why that is considered a bad thing. I do agree with with the criticism about the jet. Private jets are bad from an environmental standpoint and Meghan certainly could have flown commercial.

I do think being a member of the British Royal family does have different standards. Meghan and her friends were in full celebrity mode. The glamorous photos coming and going with big sunglasses on. Stopping to pose when on private time. Those are things you don’t see from the BRF. Meghan is going to have to be careful. The press were clearly welcome at this event (at least outside) so it will seem hypocritical if they are criticized for taking photos outside other private events.

To be completely clear, most of the criticism I have read is completely uncalled for IMO. I think both Meghan and Harry should just ignore it all and get on with their lives. If they are bothered by it, they should decide what criticism has merit and accept it and change accordingly and continue to disregard the rest. Complaining or having friends complain on their behalf is a losing strategy.

 

[ballettmaus]

I agree that it is good when rich people spend their money. I have never understood why that is considered a bad thing. I do agree with with the criticism about the jet. Private jets are bad from an environmental standpoint and Meghan certainly could have flown commercial.

Could she have though? Airlines have restrictions regarding pregnant women. According to a quick look on google, British Airways requires a medical certificate after week 28 that also lists the due date and they don't allow women on board after week 36. Now, I don't think she's that far along but the 28 week mark seems a possibility. And while a medical certificate would have to be kept confidential, they'd still file it with an airline with a lot of employees. I'm not sure I'd want to risk it if I were her.

I'm sure other airlines have their own restrictions.

 

[Vagabond]

I can imagine the if the Duchess of Sussex flew on any airline other than British Airways.

 

[Japanfan]

Conspicuous consumption may be crass but it's not hurting anyone & it can also be good for the economy.

The negative environmental impacts of conspicuous (or non-conspicuous, for that matter) consumption are well know. It's hurting everyone.

Then, there is this thing we call 'greed'. And the vast gulf between the few who control most of the world's wealth and the rest of the population.

I agree that it is good when rich people spend their money.

Only a little bit of that wealth may trickle down, and the money that rich people spend often serves to reinforce and perpetuate the vast divide between the few rich and poor many.

It really depends on what they spend their money on.

For example, I read that Bill Gates may have bought a lot of shares in Monsanto. And this:
https://www.organicconsumers.org/ne...mqe0te3PYQ5QQFU2fiFjwbz_mcXjX7bOW2DXKo1oi1KbM

Also this: https://www.organicconsumers.org/ne...GkIrpfaIpg6-WtmN0rTREi8sLsS1Q8NdOlD-RrisOu82U

I had the same thought about this shower that I had about a $200,000 1st birthday party for a baby but none of us have any right to tell rich people how to spend their money. I don't give anyone the right to criticize how I spend my money & it's the same thing.

But everyone does have the right to judge and criticize how another spends her or his money. Not that it amounts to much.

I do agree with with the criticism about the jet. Private jets are bad from an environmental standpoint and Meghan certainly could have flown commercial.

To be fair, there may be security reasons to use a private jet.

And I'm reminded of the irony of the 'green Oscars' a few years back - some celebrities got there via private jet.

 

[mag]

For example, I read that Bill Gates may have bought a lot of shares in Monsanto. And this:
https://www.organicconsumers.org/ne...mqe0te3PYQ5QQFU2fiFjwbz_mcXjX7bOW2DXKo1oi1KbM

Completely OT, but why would buying shares in Monsanto be any better or worse than buying shares in any other company?

The “Organic Consumers Organization” is a multi billion dollar lobbying group that is fear based, unscientific, and often promotes environmentally unsustainable practices. “Organic” and all it stands for is a massive symbol of privilege run amok.

As just one example, hundreds of thousands of children die every year from vitamin A deficiency which could be cured by access to golden rice. Organic lobbying groups have used fear mongering to keep it out of production. Must be nice for those well fed people to be able to turn their privileged noses up at a life saving crop.

No one has ever died from eating GMO produce. Millions and millions die every year from starvation.

 

[mag]

To be fair, there may be security reasons to use a private jet.

If William, Harry, and Kate can all fly commercial, I am sure Meghan can as well. As for restrictions around flying when pregnant, again, I have no doubt there would be a way of working that out. She would be flying with her own security and probably medical personnel.

 

[Japanfan]

Completely OT, but why would buying shares in Monsanto be any better or worse than buying shares in any other company?

Put simply, Monsanto's seeds are squeezing out and controlling the small farmer.

Whoever controls the world's seeds controls the world's food supply.

Do you really want one vast and powerful corporation controlling the feed people eat?

That said, there are plenty of other companies that are equally greedy and corrupt.

And there are 'ethical stocks', but SFAIK, they tend to not perform very well.

However, Bill Gates is the world's richest or second richest man. He doesn't need to make money on the market, and could serve as an example in terms of ethical investing.

As just one example, hundreds of thousands of children die every year from vitamin A deficiency which could be cured by access to golden rice. Organic lobbying groups have used fear mongering to keep it out of production. Must be nice for those well fed people to be able to turn their privileged noses up at a life saving crop.

No one has ever died from eating GMO produce. Millions and millions die every year from starvation.

That's a standard argument.

But I don't think we need GMO produce to effectively address starvation. I think we are quite capable of doing it already, should an appropriate effort be made.

 

[aftershocks]

The Duke & Duchess of Sussex arrive in Morocco:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqV47z2TC4A

The red dress with embroidered cape and inverted pleats is lovely on Meghan:
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-UdncNOgDhS4/XHHbvkGRWEI/AAAAAAABdJ0/GsJGJxpBIM87FLv0bw28KoYjxAXccehhwCLcBGAs/s1600/meghan+red+valentino+dress.jpg
http://www.meghansmirror.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/D0Hli1hX4AAA2sA.jpg

The dress is bespoke, adapted from these runway selections:
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-iKyfk6iF..._U_i-XwcJHrgIQOLgCLcBGAs/s1600/valentino1.jpg

Today a casual trousers-sweater-blazer outfit with flats and scarf accessory. Then, a quick switch from a dark top to a white top under the blue blazer. I don't like the open-back heels donned later. The henna painted on Meghan's hand and wrist is a Moroccan tradition for a pregnant woman:
https://media.gettyimages.com/photo...-of-sussex-as-she-visits-picture-id1131759193
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BO1hyWLt3kI

 

[taf2002]

However, Bill Gates is the world's richest or second richest man. He doesn't need to make money on the market, and could serve as an example in terms of ethical investing.

Not to be rude, but who are you to decide what Bill Gates "needs"? Since a huge amount of his income goes to charity maybe he feels that he "needs" to make the most money that he can. My portfolio includes the stocks that I feel will give me the best return. Doesn't everyone's?

 

[ballettmaus]

If William, Harry, and Kate can all fly commercial, I am sure Meghan can as well. As for restrictions around flying when pregnant, again, I have no doubt there would be a way of working that out. She would be flying with her own security and probably medical personnel.

It's still possible that she would have to have filed a medical certificate that includes the due date. If you were her, would you really want to risk any detail of that medical certificate getting out to the press? Even if someone doesn't leak it now, it would be on record, someone could come across it half a year or a year or so from now and still leak it.

 

[mag]

It's still possible that she would have to have filed a medical certificate that includes the due date. If you were her, would you really want to risk any detail of that medical certificate getting out to the press? Even if someone doesn't leak it now, it would be on record, someone could come across it half a year or a year or so from now and still leak it.

Meghan and Harry just flew on a commercial flight to Morocco. Clearly it isn’t an issue.

 

[mag]

Put simply, Monsanto's seeds are squeezing out and controlling the small farmer.

Whoever controls the world's seeds controls the world's food supply.

Do you really want one vast and powerful corporation controlling the feed people eat?

That said, there are plenty of other companies that are equally greedy and corrupt.

These are all talking points from the multi billion dollar corporate organic industry. Organic does not equal small farm. It does not equal environmentally sensitive, it does not equal ethical, anymore than any other sort of farm. Monsanto is not trying to squeeze out the small farmer. In fact, haven’t they been bought out by someone else?

We have been genetically modifying food for many, many years. Seedless watermelon, ruby red grapefruit just to mention two. There are many ways to do it including blasting seeds with radiation and seeing what happens. That method is a okay with the organic industry, but carefully controlled GMO’s which are safety tested over and over are not. Insulin is a GMO product - should we stop making that?

The Organic industry and guys like the head of Stoneybrook Farms have been doing The Trump long before Trump. Pick something/someone out, vilify it, rally people around this perceived evil, and then sell them what you are selling.

Anyway, this is the royalty thread. If you want to discuss this further, we can open another thread.

 

[RoseRed]

That's a standard argument.

But I don't think we need GMO produce to effectively address starvation. I think we are quite capable of doing it already, should an appropriate effort be made.

There's nothing wrong with GMO produce actually. It's perfectly safe, can reduce the necessity of pesticide use, etc. There's plenty wrong with Monsanto and what they do. But those are separate issues.