Coughlin's Safe Sport Status Changed to Interim Suspension

[Japanfan]

This entire situation is tragic on every level.

That's about all I have to say. I haven't posted anything about this situation because it is so overwhelming and distressing. A perform storm for a social media nightmare.

 

[Lanie]

Doxxing is NEVER okay. I don’t know why there’s so much whataboutism here.

 

[CaliSteve]

I find it more sad that many potential victims will never come out to report their abuse because of the reaction to the John Coughlin case. The cards are stack against any victim that comes forward.

The people that are threatening to confront the accuser at nationals are vile. They lack the moral compass and ethics necessary to understand that they are no heroes, and by outing any accusers they will make future victims reluctant to report any abuse. As cold hearted as this is going to sound, John is dead by his own hand. Suicide is a self inflicted action. Period. No accuser, I repeat, no accuser is responsible for any actions that he took in the last minutes of his life. We shouldn't want accusers to feel bad for coming forward. Quite the contrary, we should want any person being victimized (especially if they are minors)to feel safe coming forward.

An investigation is not a guilty verdict, and he could have very well cleared his name. We will never know now, but the fact remains that it was always a possibility that John could have put this behind him.

How do they know who the accuser is? Could this be the reason for the "list" stuff going on?

 

[CaliSteve]

Doxxing is NEVER okay. I don’t know why there’s so much whataboutism here.

Its vigilantism.

 

[Rafter]

I just spent quite a bit of time reading all the comments posted under Delilah S’s facebook post. Wow are there ever a lot of furious, hurt people out there - many who think the accuser(s) is making this up for motives that aren’t yet clear to me. The accuser certainly is going to be blacklisted within the skating community from what I can gather.

This story is so messy (and tragic) and I’m sure there’s much more information that we will be learning in the coming weeks and months. Delilah’s Gofundme page mentions not only funeral costs but also legal fees. I wonder if the accusers are going to end up getting sued.

 

[Willin]

While I don't think the vast majority of the mourning posts deserve being put on a "trash people" list or being trolled, I am very disturbed by Dalilah and the people around her who are attacking the accuser. It's completely classless. I get she's also mourning, but she's an adult - she should know better than to attack people so publicly. She's the only one I'm willing to put on my "trash people list" after this.

@CaliSteve As I mentioned before, all signs point to the fact that the name of the accuser is known to most of the elite skating world in the US. I would assume most of the skaters who posted public tributes to John are also privately supporting the victim and/or will be giving their well wishes to him or her this week at Nationals.

I think the potential consequences for future victims feeling unable to come forward about abuse because of the reaction of the skating community to this are markedly greater than the potential consequences of a list of receipts circulating on Twitter. Skaters aren’t being harassed- people are trying to educate them.

I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what the skaters need to be educated about. Most of the skaters posting tributes to Coughlin are very much against sexual violence and abuse. I'm sure they will reach out to the victim and support him or her to the fullest.
They have their own reasons for not supporting the victim publicly - maybe because they want to provide the victim with privacy or more personal messages; maybe because they're still so shocked and hurt about the accusations that they don't know what to say more than a tribute to Coughlin at this time.
I do understand the argument that they should comment on the fact that Coughlin may have done bad things, but I think it's acceptable to give them time to do so.

 

[mollymgr]

Will opinions flip back if a skater is doxed by fellow skaters this week for making a complaint? What if they receive death threats? Apparently, Safesport has received threats.

This entire situation is tragic on every level.

I agree. This is a very important time for everyone(USFSA and PSA) to do what's right and not what is convenient. This might mean making some tough and uncomfortable decisions.

 

[carriecmu0503]

Then I am sure you know the meaning of due process and understand that there is, to date, no evidence that John was denied due process, regardless of the publicity.

How about not being allowed by SafeSport to comment on the case or share his side of the story, as has been well documented? A key part of due process is being afforded an opportunity to defend yourself. I am not saying he is innocent, but I am also saying there is no reported evidence that points to his guilt, either. If he is guilty, he should absolutely have faced the consequences. However, the SafeSport process is clearly flawed and needs adjusting. It is not right to say someone is suspended, not list any reason why they are being investigated, which allows people to jump to the conclusion that he is another Nassar when that may be far from the truth, and strip people of their ability to earn a living while it takes them a year+ to investigate. I am all for protecting athletes, but the way in which this case was handled is not right. There needs to be more transparency in the process. Be real here. Even if SafeSport cleared him, do you really think his reputation would come out intact? Absolutely not. The court of public opinion conviction would likely stick for many. Chances of him getting his brand manager position with John Wilson Blades back? Slim. Chances of parents sending their children to him for coaching? Dicey.

 

[rfisher]

SafeSport does give the accused an opportunity to present their case. All Coughlin was forbidden to do was speak to the press about the case. I don't get where you think he had no opportunity to defend himself. He had months to do so.rep

Just my opinion, Sappenfield's behavior makes me wonder if she's trying to deflect attention away from herself. The SafeSport representative did say they could keep the case open if there were others who had information and didn't report it. Her actions are equally as reprehensible as those who are making the skaters into the bad guys.

I cannot imagine how skaters will skate and coaches coach this week. Which I would think Sappenfield would be turning her attention to her students at this point.

 

[puglover]

One of many reasons that inappropriate behavior is not reported is the fear on the part of the receiver that he/she has to be totally above any reproach to be believed. In regards to minors in skating, probably their parents as well.

People are asking for trouble if they communicate any threats to anyone including SafeSport. Their spokesman mentioned the authorities going through their messages - they are taking these seriously.

 

[Vera Costa]

I’m sorry, but it looks like I’m going to have to make another controversial opinion known.

That list is necessary. That isn’t just people grieving or remember their friend. Nearly every top skater is on that list. Add the various former amateur skaters, the silence from the coaches after the PSA announcement and Delilah Sappenfield running off to People and you have a culture.

The victim blaming, the near complete lack of acknowledgement of the victims, the blaming of reporters and institutions, there is a lot to say about how the figure skating community has reacted to an allegation and none of it is good.

We talk about responsibility for what has happened and what can be done to correct this. The lack of protection for victims is both an institutional failure and the culture that is steeped in toxicity.

Not one prominent skater, former or current has stepped up to say this is wrong. I don’t blame those who remained silent. There are plenty of reasons including personal experiences and genuine confusion. But the skaters who went and wrote about how amazing Coughlin was and others who by liking or retweeting tacitly gave their support to those post and further legitimised them, they should be held to higher standards. If they can support Coughlin in death, then it isn’t much to ask for support of the victim.

This isn’t just about Coughlin anymore. It’s about Larvik, Morozov, Callaghan, etc. Members of the community have to demand change. Putting their heads in the sand only makes them complicit in the culture.

 

[VGThuy]

I think we have to remember most of the people who wrote their condolences may not have had any idea of the nature of Coughlin's accusation, probably haven't been following this whole thing, and maybe his suicide was the first they heard he had been on SafeSport. Some of those skaters have been out of the skating loop this past year. When they wrote their posts, they were still just reacting to his suicide. My post is not about those like Delilah who are doing more and are actively discrediting the accusers.

 

[once_upon]

As I continue to read this and other social media, I find myself angry with John. He chose an action that denies anyone - the accusers, his friends, his family and him - to be heard. I know that someone who commits suicide is not rational, but I jump to the conclusion that there must have been some truth to the allegations. That's probably wrong of me, but he at least knew there was some interactions with the accusers.
He chose to commit suicide. He alone, the accusers did not force him to carry out the act. Safe Sport did not. John alone made that decision.
Sappenfield is out of line. She has a great deal of power in skating, I've never been a fan of her so that might be clouding my perspective. If she or because of her actions, names the victim
It's a hard road to travel to come out and accuse someone of sexual misconduct.

 

[Lanie]

Yes, a list by some idiot teenager (I assume) on Tumblr who's Tweeting about it is totally necessary. Look at what happened to those Catholic high school kids. Let's send all those skaters death threats too because they are grieving. It disgusts me people think this behavior is completely acceptable. It is as disgusting as the people running roughshod over the victims whom we know nothing about, blaming them. All that behavior is completely unacceptable and condoning it is playing into the toxic culture we have today on social media and in our interactions with people. That also must stop.

 

[VGThuy]

As I continue to read this and other social media, I find myself angry with John. He chose an action that denies anyone - the accusers, his friends, his family and him - to be heard. I know that someone who commits suicide is not rational, but I jump to the conclusion that there must have been some truth to the allegations. That's probably wrong of me, but he at least knew there was some interactions with the accusers.
He chose to commit suicide. He alone, the accusers did not force him to carry out the act. Safe Sport did not. John alone made that decision.
Sappenfield is out of line. She has a great deal of power in skating, I've never been a fan of her so that might be clouding my perspective. If she or because of her actions, names the victim
It's a hard road to travel to come out and accuse someone of sexual misconduct.

I have to agree with this, and I want to say those complaining about John's lack of due process...due process is giving the accused a chance to be heard, and John Coughlin's actions is what has prevented that from happening. I don't mean to undermine suicide or how people deal with suicidal tendencies or anything like that. It's just the fact that John Coughlin committing suicide is the reason why we won't hear his side of the story.

 

[Vera Costa]

@VIETgrlTerifa I agree with you. But At this point it is well know. Yet, Adam Rippon aside, no one has acknowledged that they may have been wrong or brought up the victims at all.

These skaters aren’t children. They are adults with sizeable followings on social media. They have an audience they can influence. Coughlin’s alleged victims may be a part of their audience. There are other victims of abuse that probably are a part of their audience. How should they feel about these people they admire talking about how amazing Coughlin was and others supporting it?

 

[CaliSteve]

I agree. This is a very important time for everyone(USFSA and PSA) to do what's right and not what is convenient. This might mean making some tough and uncomfortable decisions.

This is so heated, with two sides that are passionate on their position, that its going to be an uphill battle.

 

[Vera Costa]

Yes, a list by some idiot teenager (I assume) on Tumblr who's Tweeting about it is totally necessary. Look at what happened to those Catholic high school kids. Let's send all those skaters death threats too because they are grieving.

Those kids chose to indulge in racism and bigotry. Stop defending them.

No one is suggesting that anyone send the skaters death threats.

Grieving is all well and fine, but if the way you grieve can cause harm to someone else, then maybe you should question how you are choosing to grieve. Just because something is understandable, that doesn’t make it right and doesn’t mean it should be ignored.

 

[carriecmu0503]

[QUOTE="rfisher, post: 5507864, member: 11090"]SafeSport does give the accused an opportunity to present their case. All Coughlin was forbidden to do was speak to the press about the case. I don't get where you think he had no opportunity to defend himself. He had months to do so.rep

Just my opinion, Sappenfield's behavior makes me wonder if she's trying to deflect attention away from herself. The SafeSport representative did say they could keep the case open if there were others who had information and didn't report it. Her actions are equally as reprehensible as those who are making the skaters into the bad guys.

I cannot imagine how skaters will skate and coaches coach this week. Which I would think Sappenfield would be turning her attention to her students at this point.[/QUOTE]

So, in the mean time, the court of public opinion gets to only hear a part of one side of the story (he did something to someone, but we have no idea what). The public gets to jump to the conclusion that not only is he guilty, but he is guilty of sexually assaulting multiple women. He gets to continue to have his reputation ruined, and all the while, he is allowed to say nothing of it publicly. No chance to publicly tell his story or to publicly defend himself. I am a survivor advocate. I will say it again. However, due process needs to be granted. John was allowed no opportunity to publicly defend himself while his reputation and livelihood were destroyed. If he is guilty, he deserved to face consequences. But what if he was not guilty?

 

[mag]

I am interested know about all the people who have been falsely accused and had their lives ruined forever? Not just a few months or a year of inconvenience and discomfort, but actually ruined? Some people seem to default to this supposed massive group of poor maligned people. Yes, I know many will say one is too many, but please stop and think about the millions of people who have been permanently damaged by sexual abuse and misconduct. Millions. I bet if we took a poll here we could get a couple of dozen names in a few hours of posters who have been abused, been too afraid to report, been convinced not to report, or have reported and not been abused or been Brock Turnered

Again, I have no idea if John did what he was accused of, but I do know there was a process in place to find out. I also know that it took incredible bravery for the complainants to come forward. The only reason this will be left undetermined is because John decided to end it. Assault victims don’t just get over it and usually can’t just move on. Is is terrible for John’s friends and family? Yes. Is this a living nightmare for the claimants, absolutely. Is having dozens of people you have looked up to and wanted to be like praising the person you believe hurt you tramatizing? I suspect so.

I realize this may be unpopular, but if ever there was a time to grieve the old fashioned way and sent a note of condolence directly to the family, either by email or snail mail, this really was it.

 

[Lanie]

Those kids chose to indulge in racism and bigotry. Stop defending them.

No one is suggesting that anyone send the skaters death threats.

Grieving is all well and fine, but if the way you grieve can cause harm to someone else, then maybe you should question how you are choosing to grieve. Just because something is understandable, that doesn’t make it right and doesn’t mean it should be ignored.

No, they were not, if you watched the entire video and read an excellent article on Medium regarding what truly happened. I jumped to conclusions too. The media portrays things the way they want when they seek a narrative. Quite like this in the sense of people already wanted a narrative about what happened here, as we can see in this thread. But this is not about that.

Doxxing is about harassment. It is about sending death threats. Finding personal information, getting it out there. Sending phone calls to harass them. Emails. Texts. Even calling a parents' place of business, or work, to harass THEM. It is despicable behavior. People get those from others all the time over social media. This list of "trash people in skating" encourages harassment, threats, and so on towards these skaters. They can choose to grieve for however they want to. Harassing them, which is where a doxxing list like this only begins, is completely, utterly unacceptable and I find it deplorable people like you think it's okay to treat your fellow human beings like that. It's okay that people do this to SafeSport, as well? Get real.

I won't engage with you any longer on this because it shows me what kind of person you are that you think harassing people--entirely the point of this list--is somehow acceptable. That the things said to these skaters even those who simply had a black picture on their Instagram about being pieces of shit and awful human beings and so on and so forth is acceptable. It is just as bad as the people wanting to discredit or hurt the accusers. Period.

I am sorry if I come off as rude but I am so troubled by this attitude that has affected people I love and do not think it's cool to treat people that way just as I think it's horrendous, disgusting, and awful that the accusers may be harassed, doxxed, or anything. It is ALL wrong and says a lot about us as a culture, and none of it good.

 

[CaliSteve]

I just spent quite a bit of time reading all the comments posted under Delilah S’s facebook post. Wow are there ever a lot of furious, hurt people out there - many who think the accuser(s) is making this up for motives that aren’t yet clear to me. The accuser certainly is going to be blacklisted within the skating community from what I can gather.

This story is so messy (and tragic) and I’m sure there’s much more information that we will be learning in the coming weeks and months. Delilah’s Gofundme page mentions not only funeral costs but also legal fees. I wonder if the accusers are going to end up getting sued.

Its intense and irrational.

 

[demetriosj]

Those kids chose to indulge in racism and bigotry. Stop defending them.

Get your facts straight. Turns out a group of African-American men were screaming racist, anti-Catholic obscenities at the group of students from Kentucky. They were even berating a priest that was with the students. This is all on tape. The news media chose to ignore this......

 

[Kunstrijdster]

That list is necessary. .

I think it is perfectly acceptable to point out/be critical of the fact that a majority of people from the skating community commenting on social media do so without mentioning the accusers/victims. The list, however, goes too far in a lot of places. Just posting a "black screen" gets you "on the list", liking a post that's just a black screen gets you on the list. The list calls all people on it "offenders".

I don't think this list is helpful in any way, if anything, it may even be counterproductive to the interests of the victims/accusers.

 

[Prancer]

How about not being allowed by SafeSport to comment on the case or share his side of the story, as has been well documented? A key part of due process is being afforded an opportunity to defend yourself.

We have been through this before, so I will just say this again--due process refers to legal proceedings. Whether SafeSport or a lawyer or whoever did not allow John to comment publicly is not part of due process. Due process means that you have the opportunity to defend yourself in legal proceedings.

It is not right to say someone is suspended, not list any reason why they are being investigated, which allows people to jump to the conclusion that he is another Nassar when that may be far from the truth, and strip people of their ability to earn a living while it takes them a year+ to investigate.

What would you suggest? Let's say that John was being investigated for rape. Would you want it publicized that John was being investigated for rape? Would that transparency make his situation better before the investigation was complete?

Be real here. Transparency only helps the accused if the accusation is one some people would consider mild (which is going to vary greatly). But if the accusation were something really ugly, like pedophilia, then it's not going to help the accused for that to be public. It would be worse.

Be real here. Even if SafeSport cleared him, do you really think his reputation would come out intact? Absolutely not. The court of public opinion conviction would likely stick for many. Chances of him getting his brand manager position with John Wilson Blades back? Slim. Chances of parents sending their children to him for coaching? Dicey.

His name will always be under a cloud--just exactly like the names of others in his situation. Even if he went on trial and were found not guilty, there are people who never consider him innocent.

This is true for just about anyone and everyone who is investigated. If I were under suspicion of robbing a bank, that information would be public. I wouldn't comment on it to the press because that is a stupid thing to do. If I were tried and found not guilty, there are people who would always consider me guilty.

It sucks. But how would more transparency prevent any of that from happening?

The news media chose to ignore this......

Oh, please. It's all over the news media. They went with what they had and now they have more and have reported the new information. And wasn't this discussion going to go to PI?

 

[Tavi]

SafeSport does give the accused an opportunity to present their case. All Coughlin was forbidden to do was speak to the press about the case. I don't get where you think he had no opportunity to defend himself. He had months to do so.rep

Just my opinion, Sappenfield's behavior makes me wonder if she's trying to deflect attention away from herself. The SafeSport representative did say they could keep the case open if there were others who had information and didn't report it. Her actions are equally as reprehensible as those who are making the skaters into the bad guys.

I cannot imagine how skaters will skate and coaches coach this week. Which I would think Sappenfield would be turning her attention to her students at this point.

I’m not sure he was forbidden to speak to the press. The procedures state that the Responding Party is forbidden from disclosing any details that would identify the person making the complaint, but I didn’t see any blanket prohibition on discussing the case. Admittedly that could be tricky to navigate, and an attorney may have advised him just to say nothing.

 

[mackiecat]

@VIETgrlTerifa I agree with you. But At this point it is well know. Yet, Adam Rippon aside, no one has acknowledged that they may have been wrong or brought up the victims at all.

These skaters aren’t children. They are adults with sizeable followings on social media. They have an audience they can influence. Coughlin’s alleged victims may be a part of their audience. There are other victims of abuse that probably are a part of their audience. How should they feel about these people they admire talking about how amazing Coughlin was and others supporting it?

Dylan Moscovitch also has.

 

[carriecmu0503]

We have been through this before, so I will just say this again--due process refers to legal proceedings. Whether SafeSport or a lawyer or whoever did not allow John to comment publicly is not part of due process. Due process means that you have the opportunity to defend yourself in legal proceedings.



What would you suggest? Let's say that John was being investigated for rape. Would you want it publicized that John was being investigated for rape? Would that transparency make his situation better before the investigation was complete?

Be real here. Transparency only helps the accused if the accusation is one people would consider something some people would consider mild (which is going to vary greatly). But if the accusation were something really ugly, like pedophilia, then it's not going to help the accused for that to be public. It would be worse.



His name will always be under a cloud--just exactly like the names of others in his situation. Even if he went on trial and were found not guilty, there are people who never consider him innocent.

This is true for just about anyone and everyone who is investigated. If I were under suspicion of robbing a bank, that information would be public. I wouldn't comment on it to the press because that is a stupid thing to do. If I were tried and found not guilty, there are people who would always consider me guilty.

It sucks. But how woukld more transparency prevent any of that from happening?

In my profession, mental health counseling, accusations are not made public until the board has already conducted an investigation and have determined there is a very credible case that will lead to discipline of the accused. They do not just publicly post every single complaint filed. This is to protect all parties. There are unstable people out there who post complaints that are not valid, and people should not have their careers and lives ruined by the court of public opinion. Innocent until proven guilty. Unfortunately, our society is swinging to a guilty until proven innocent culture.

 

[Prancer]

In my profession, mental health counseling, accusations are not made public until the board has already conducted an investigation and have determined there is a very credible case that will lead to discipline of the accused. They do not just publicly post every single complaint filed. This is to protect all parties. There are unstable people out there who post complaints that are not valid, and people should not have their careers and lives ruined by the court of public opinion. Innocent until proven guilty. Unfortunately, our society is swinging to a guilty until proven innocent culture.

Again, public opinion has nothing to do with due process. John was innocent until proven guilty, which is why there was an investigation. He hadn't been convicted of anything in legal proceedings. That's due process.

Unfortunately for John, he was not in your profession.

When has our society not had these problems? Social media may have magnified the probem, but Pulitzer made his name on stories like this--only with actual lies.

 

[rfisher]

SafeSport started the investigation in mid-October but didn't publish Coughlin's name until December and a month later elevated the status.