Coughlin's Safe Sport Status Changed to Interim Suspension

[WildRose]

This is a horrible tragedy and it's understandable that people are seeking to lay the blame for it on someone. Social media, USFA, skaters, Christine Brennan, SafeSport...the list goes on. However it seems to me that what some people really want to know are details that are none of our business, that are private and that will remain that way for good reason. Grieve for John if you knew him, commiserate with those affected and the skating community. That's really all any of us can do at this point.

 

[insideedgeua]

Grieve for John if you knew him, commiserate with those affected and the skating community. That's really all any of us can do at this point.

Sadly people aren’t being allowed to even grieve.

Someone on twitter is keeping a list of every skater that has posted a tribute to John and a list of every skater that has donated to the Go Fund Me for his funeral.

She’s publicly calling all of these skaters trash,for mourning the loss of their friend.

What sort of person does that?

 

[carriecmu0503]

Sadly people aren’t being allowed to even grieve.

Someone on twitter is keeping a list of every skater that has posted a tribute to John and a list of every skater that has donated to the Go Fund Me for his funeral.

She’s publicly calling all of these skaters trash,for mourning the loss of their friend.

What sort of person does that?

Someone who, at a certain point, could be arrested for stalking and harassment of others.

 

[Teamgracie]

Sadly people aren’t being allowed to even grieve.

Someone on twitter is keeping a list of every skater that has posted a tribute to John and a list of every skater that has donated to the Go Fund Me for his funeral.

She’s publicly calling all of these skaters trash,for mourning the loss of their friend.

What sort of person does that?

Exactly. The people attacking the skaters are hypocrites. They are attacking and bullying those that haven’t done anything. Really twitter is very dangerous.

 

[mag]

Sadly people aren’t being allowed to even grieve.

Someone on twitter is keeping a list of every skater that has posted a tribute to John and a list of every skater that has donated to the Go Fund Me for his funeral.

She’s publicly calling all of these skaters trash,for mourning the loss of their friend.

What sort of person does that?

When we ask people to be compassionate and let people grieve, I think we also need to be compassionate and let those affected by the grieving express their views. People are absolutely allowed to grieve, but if they choose to air their grief over social media, where people they do not know have access to it, they should be prepared to received all sorts of responses.

I don’t agree with what this person is doing, but I am not in her shoes. Perhaps she was abused by a person in power, perhaps no one believed her, perhaps that persons friends stood behind that person and that traumatized her all over again? Perhaps seeing Skaters she looks up to do the same for John is too much for her to handle? Again, I don’t agree with her actions, but I can have compassion, just like I don’t think Skaters should be grieving publically for John but I can have compassion for them when they have lost a friend.

 

[Lanie]

This person who is doing that is a cruel troll and it's just the state of things today where you can attack anyone for anything, accuse anyone of anything. It is nasty and uncalled for, but unsurprising. I would have no compassion for a troll stalking skaters and trying to fcuk with them.

 

[WildRose]

Who are we to tell people how they should grieve? This is their friend and colleague, let them mourn as they wish.

 

[Prancer]

When we ask people to be compassionate and let people grieve, I think we also need to be compassionate and let those affected by the grieving express their views.

I agree, but that's one of the reasons I think that girl needs to be shut down. It's one thing to state your views, another to target people and get others to target them as well.

If she is a victim of abuse herself, then I don't think this is at all healthy for her and I can't see anyone in the mental health field supporting her in this.

 

[mag]

Who are we to tell people how they should grieve? This is their friend and colleague, let them mourn as they wish.

They absolutely should mourn however they wish, but people will also respond how they wish. That is the way it should work. Like I said, I wouldn’t do what the person is doing, but then again I also wouldn’t do my grieving in public.

 

[CaliSteve]

This is a horrible tragedy and it's understandable that people are seeking to lay the blame for it on someone. Social media, USFA, skaters, Christine Brennan, SafeSport...the list goes on. However it seems to me that what some people really want to know are details that are none of our business, that are private and that will remain that way for good reason. Grieve for John if you knew him, commiserate with those affected and the skating community. That's really all any of us can do at this point.

What do you mean by "details" that are none of our business?

 

[Deleted member 74551]

Skaters are of course entitled to mourn a friend and feel conflicted about the person they believed him to be, but with a platform comes responsibility. You can count on one hand the number of top US skaters who don’t appear on that list (which is nothing more than a compilation of information that skaters themselves have already made public on social media) Imagine being his alleged victim, having courageously come forward knowing there would likely be pushback, and seeing this outpouring of support for the person you’ve accused from virtually all of your peers? Posting glowing tributes without acknowledging the accusations contributes to a culture where people do not feel safe to report. It would’ve cost nothing to grieve privately in these circumstances.

 

[2sk8]

I agree, but that's one of the reasons I think that girl needs to be shut down. It's one thing to state your views, another to target people and get others to target them as well.

If she is a victim of abuse herself, then I don't think this is at all healthy for her and I can't see anyone in the mental health field supporting her in this.

Just wow. I think that the way this situation has been handled on social media is a huge part of the problem - and whether others agree or not - I feel it led to Coughlin's suicide, and that is sad. (Let me also add that I've successfully pursued a grievance through USFS that led to a coach suspension, so I have a real world understanding of both sides of these situations. I still think this procedure was overly influenced by what came from Brennan's initial tweets.)
That said, I'm blown away by how social media is being used by this girl - and someone I found who has re-Tweeted her documents - to go against other skaters. In fact, it reads "preliminary list of trash people in the skating community." In fact, she knows it's so troubling, she asked that her name not be associated with it!

https://twitter.com/yang_bo_dudnik/status/1087484005979582469

If you're going to do something like this, attach your name to it. If you're afraid of the ramifications on you, don't use social media to trash others. This is just beyond sad - and not just about victims v abusers.

 

[overedge]

If she's so offended by the headline, she could have edited it out of the screenshot before she retweeted it. Sorry, I'm not buying it.

 

[analia]

Look, if the accusations are watertight the "authority" wouldn't have to leak to Brennan. There are many ways of issuing a statement without mentioning the name of accusers. When the Lassar case came out there had been months before the public knew Denhollander's name. If Coughlin was indeed guilty, now is the time to substantiate the complaint. Instead we have most of the skating community singing praises to Coughlin. Most of them I assume don't know what the accusation is either. How is this good for the victim or anyone at all? How would any random person not be inclined to blame the accuser if Coughlin is being portrayed by well-known figures in the community as such a saint?

People underestimate how messy some of these cases are. I was just reading a civil suit about a college professor having a consensual but one would call kinky sexual relationship with a 25-year-old female graduate student that ended up emotionally traumatizing for her. Her parents are suing the school on the ground that she had been taking all kinds of anxiety pills all her life and the professor/school is liable for not acknowledging her mental disability by I suppose putting her near a kinky man. The professor was fired on the spot. I'm sure how one thinks about a case like that is entirely based on one's own ideological preferences.

 

[CaliSteve]

Skaters are of course entitled to mourn a friend and feel conflicted about the person they believed him to be, but with a platform comes responsibility

Hmm. That is like saying you can do that BUT there are consequences, like you will be put on a list of skaters who support an abuser....

 

[Rukia]

That whole list is ridiculous. The "tributes" posted by Nathan Chen and the Shibs were just black screens. For real that's not a statement either way. I honestly feel for all the skaters because this must be an awful time for them. So many things they have to work through.

 

[Deleted member 74551]

Hmm. That is like saying you can do that BUT there are consequences, like you will be put on a list of skaters who support an abuser....

I think the potential consequences for future victims feeling unable to come forward about abuse because of the reaction of the skating community to this are markedly greater than the potential consequences of a list of receipts circulating on Twitter. Skaters aren’t being harassed- people are trying to educate them.

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

Who are we to tell people how they should grieve? This is their friend and colleague, let them mourn as they wish.

Thank you for saying that. To think that vicious trolling is justified because they chose to grieve publicly is just another sad reflection of our times.

 

[Lanie]

Have you not been paying attention to what happens when people doxx and harass others on social media? People KILL THEMSELVES OVER IT. My cousin almost killed herself when girls were spreading rumors about her on social media and people started bullying her, calling her home, and getting a gang together online to do it. It's not a minor thing. To say it's acceptable to treat other human beings like that is sick. They think being anonymous behind their keyboards gives them some sort of righteous justice boner when they're hurting people.

 

[yfbg722]

Just wow. I think that the way this situation has been handled on social media is a huge part of the problem - and whether others agree or not - I feel it led to Coughlin's suicide, and that is sad. (Let me also add that I've successfully pursued a grievance through USFS that led to a coach suspension, so I have a real world understanding of both sides of these situations. I still think this procedure was overly influenced by what came from Brennan's initial tweets.)
That said, I'm blown away by how social media is being used by this girl - and someone I found who has re-Tweeted her documents - to go against other skaters. In fact, it reads "preliminary list of trash people in the skating community." In fact, she knows it's so troubling, she asked that her name not be associated with it!

https://twitter.com/yang_bo_dudnik/status/1087484005979582469

If you're going to do something like this, attach your name to it. If you're afraid of the ramifications on you, don't use social media to trash others. This is just beyond sad - and not just about victims v abusers.

Exactly! The skaters paying tribute to John are not hiding behind fake accounts. Have the courage of your convictions! Also, I would defend the skaters sharing their grief on their social media platforms. That is how they communicate with each other. It's how they support each other. It's how they reach out to their community to help them through this unimaginable situation. I think anyone who doesn't like it should stop following and/or visiting their pages.

 

[carriecmu0503]

I agree, but that's one of the reasons I think that girl needs to be shut down. It's one thing to state your views, another to target people and get others to target them as well.

If she is a victim of abuse herself, then I don't think this is at all healthy for her and I can't see anyone in the mental health field supporting her in this.

I am a licensed counselor. What this person is doing is not healthy. Look, as someone who has worked with survivors of sexual abuse/ assault for 20 years, since I was a first year college student, I obviously do not condone, and in fact condemn, sexual abuse/assault of others. However, I also absolutely advocate for the need for due process. John Coughlin, so far, has only been convicted by the court of public opinion. His colleagues, friends, and family are understandably devastated and need to grieve. Their grief in no way means they are supporting abuse. Trashing these people for grieving is not appropriate or healthy in any way.

 

[VGThuy]

I think that list is disingenuous because it does not give readers of that list the content or context of their “tribute” posts nor does it really define it. It’s allowing people to assume the worst of each skater when many of them didn’t post anything undermining any of the victims or the investigation. However, some people reading that list will come away with that impression and that may be what the author of that list wanted. I posted a reply on the person who reposted that list and she was kind enough to respond to me. I hope that her followers understand that people who knew John and did not do more than post a black blank screen or just post their condolences are not the enemy nor are they going to necessarily start a campaign to silence those who may want to file a complaint with SafeSport, silence those who brought forth complaints against Coughlin, or demonized anyone. Until they do more, then I don’t think they should be called trash people just for being guilty of knowing someone who is accused to something serious enough that lead to an interim suspension in another and friendlier capacity and feeling normal feelings of sadness that someone they knew outside of that committed suicide. People need to acknowledge they are probably feeling conflicted and confused right now and only did what they felt was natural without having any ill-will towards anyone else. I mean many people everywhere outside of this incident are going to meet people in the world they like or may even become friends with or be related to who turns out to have committed some bad acts and it’s not easy to figure out how to navigate it while feeling complicated.

 

[Prancer]

the professor/school is liable for not acknowledging her mental disability by I suppose putting her near a kinky man.

More likely because he violated professional ethics codes, particularly if she were actually his student and not just a graduate student he happened to know, and he was an employee of the university. Even if the university was unaware of the relationship, the Master-Servant Rule probably applies.

Most universities explicitly forbid professors from having romantic or sexual relationships with students, just as most teachers of any kind, including coaches, are forbidden from having sexual relationships with students. I don't know what any of that has to do with ideology, but YMMV.

 

[CaliSteve]

I think the potential consequences for future victims feeling unable to come forward about abuse because of the reaction of the skating community to this are markedly greater than the potential consequences of a list of receipts circulating on Twitter.

I think there is a broad assumption that these skaters now the back story and I dont think that is the case with most of them.

 

[CaliSteve]

Have you not been paying attention to what happens when people doxx and harass others on social media? People KILL THEMSELVES OVER IT. My cousin almost killed herself when girls were spreading rumors about her on social media and people started bullying her, calling her home, and getting a gang together online to do it. It's not a minor thing. To say it's acceptable to treat other human beings like that is sick. They think being anonymous behind their keyboards gives them some sort of righteous justice boner when they're hurting people.

And that is why the person who wrote the "Trash List" wants to remain anonymous. #Irony

 

[2sk8]

Have you not been paying attention to what happens when people doxx and harass others on social media? People KILL THEMSELVES OVER IT. My cousin almost killed herself when girls were spreading rumors about her on social media and people started bullying her, calling her home, and getting a gang together online to do it. It's not a minor thing. To say it's acceptable to treat other human beings like that is sick. They think being anonymous behind their keyboards gives them some sort of righteous justice boner when they're hurting people.

Thanks - you said this much more eloquently than I did. The social media behavior is troubling whether on the "side" of "survivor/victim" or "abuser."

 

[laviemn]

It took 2 seconds to find the original tumblr post of the Trash People in Skating list.

This list even names people who just liked any post that mourned John without mentioning the victims, without differentiating between Dalilah's post (which was appalling) and the posts that were only a black screen (which I don't consider disrespectful to the accusers). What good this is going to accomplish escapes me.

 

[Prancer]

I am a licensed counselor....However, I also absolutely advocate for the need for due process.

Then I am sure you know the meaning of due process and understand that there is, to date, no evidence that John was denied due process, regardless of the publicity.

 

[rfisher]

Will opinions flip back if a skater is doxed by fellow skaters this week for making a complaint? What if they receive death threats? Apparently, Safesport has received threats.

This entire situation is tragic on every level.

 

[dots]

I find it more sad that many potential victims will never come out to report their abuse because of the reaction to the John Coughlin case. The cards are stack against any victim that comes forward.

The people that are threatening to confront the accuser at nationals are vile. They lack the moral compass and ethics necessary to understand that they are no heroes, and by outing any accusers they will make future victims reluctant to report any abuse. As cold hearted as this is going to sound, John is dead by his own hand. Suicide is a self inflicted action. Period. No accuser, I repeat, no accuser is responsible for any actions that he took in the last minutes of his life. We shouldn't want accusers to feel bad for coming forward. Quite the contrary, we should want any person being victimized (especially if they are minors)to feel safe coming forward.

An investigation is not a guilty verdict, and he could have very well cleared his name. We will never know now, but the fact remains that it was always a possibility that John could have put this behind him.