Coughlin's Safe Sport Status Changed to Interim Suspension

[VGThuy]

Honestly, the reaction from many prove to me that it was way easy to blame organizations for failure to protect athletes after the fact but it’s human nature and community support that allowed it to happen to that high degree. Even when Nassar stuff came out there were months of people demonizing the accusers and saying all sorts of slander against them and their motivations as to why they would file a complaint against such a good man. To me the process SafeSport isn’t faulty but rather people should be educated that being under investigation isn’t a guilty verdict yet and they need to just wait until the investigation is concluded. However, the accused should be made public and people should decide whether to continuing hiring that person or not until an interim suspension because not doing so allowed continued abuse in the past and when people are tsk tsking many years later over people in the org’s failure to act more proactively in protecting athletes they won’t remember that their attitudes are what contributed to it with the whole idea of keeping things anonymous or outing accusers and such.

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

Was there a crime? Right now there are only accusations.

If there was a crime, wouldn't Coughlin been under arrest rather than under suspension? Can someone explain this? Had he committed sexual assault, rape, statutory rape, or had anything to do with child pornogrpahy and molestation - would the issue not be handled by the police and the DAs office? I know there is statue of limitations on some sexual crimes, and a possible gap between the age of consent and adulthood. I really would like to get a greater understanding of whether there was any possibility that the complaint was about actual sexual abuse of minors.

 

[libecha]

How are we proposing that the investigation be continued? Coughlin chose to commit suicide and now cannot be interviewed to give his side, so his supporters would automatically discount the results anyway and say the investigation was incomplete and maybe it was just an honest misunderstanding. And then probably use it as evidence of how shoddy and unfair SafeSport is. SafeSport does not have the legal authority to gain access to Coughlin's phone, computer, rink CCTV footage, or whatever. They cannot interview anyone under penalty of perjury or obstruction of justice. Only the police can do that, and they aren't going to waste resources investigating a dead man. I'm sorry, they just aren't. We generally only see that kind of thing for murder cases.

I know that to the figure skating community, this is a critical, personal issue, but law enforcement is already overwhelmed with investigations where there is a possible active threat to community safety from an alleged perpetrator, because unfortunately the world is full of criminals, perverts and abusers. And they cannot afford to waste resources and manpower on this to no constructive end. I don't know if Coughlin did anything or not, but either he was never a threat to anyone or no longer is, so the issue for law enforcement is done. They have bigger fish to fry.

So what would a crippled, inadequate investigation accomplish here?

 

[my little pony]

Was there a crime? Right now there are only accusations and we don't know any details.

.

and some people are really bending over backwards to explain it away as a petty complaint (by 3 people incl 2 minors)

it's not a good look. I applaud the courage of the accusers. filing reports against a popular man is the most uphill of battles. I hope they have even a fraction of friends and family to support them that St John does.

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

and some people are really bending over backwards to explain it away as a petty complaint (by 3 people incl 2 minors)

it's not a good look. I applaud the courage of the accusers. filing reports against a popular man is the most uphill of battles. I hope they have even a fraction of friends and family to support them that St John does.

So you have concluded based on the information available that a crime had been committed?

 

[overedge]

@libecha They can interview the complainants and other parties (e.g. rink management) to try to shed some light on why multiple incidents occurred without any repercussions. That information might be extremely useful in discouraging or preventing further incidents.

 

[vesperholly]

and some people are really bending over backwards to explain it away as a petty complaint (by 3 people incl 2 minors).

Well, to be clear, I never said it was a petty complaint. I don't know the substance of the complaint. Do you?

I'm trying to point out that there's a lot of shades of gray here, and a lot of black and white thinking.

 

[skatfan]

I realize that this is a very difficult case for everyone to process, but I suggest we try to treat one another with respect.

I'm well-aware of what happened in the Larry Nassar case.

Given that the rumor mill is already swirling and the accuser(s) may already be targeted, going public could give pause to people who would have to explain why they are marking someone down/treating someone poorly for no apparent reason.

To me, that's viewing this as simply a skating competition issue. This is now an international story! Any accuser named will be followed by the press, their families, friends and colleagues will be badgered for more information, their lives will be turned upside-down, and they will be doxxed, threatened, and more.

 

[overedge]

So you have concluded based on the information available that a crime had been committed?

This isn't a criminal case. It's a complaint to a regulatory body. And I agree with @my little pony that three separate complaints against the same individual are a pretty strong indicator that something wrong was happening.

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

This isn't a criminal case. It's a complaint to a regulatory body. And I agree with @mylittlepony that three separate complaints against the same individual are a pretty strong indicator that something wrong was happening.

I agree as well that something was terribly wrong. However, I was responding to her angry tirade towards the following post:

vesperholly said:

Was there a crime? Right now there are only accusations and we don't know any details.

Since this is not a criminal case, I don't think the response was appropriate:

and some people are really bending over backwards to explain it away as a petty complaint (by 3 people incl 2 minors)

it's not a good look. I applaud the courage of the accusers. filing reports against a popular man is the most uphill of battles. I hope they have even a fraction of friends and family to support them that St John does.

 

[missing]

This isn't a criminal case. It's a complaint to a regulatory body. And I agree with @my little pony that three separate complaints against the same individual are a pretty strong indicator that something wrong was happening.

Senator Joe McCarthy accused lots of people of being Communists. Many people in the entertainment industry had their careers and lives shattered because others in their field also accused them of left wing activities. Some of those people named were named multiple times.

Being the accuser does not inherently sanctify you. Being accused by more than one person does not inherently prove guilt.

 

[Stephori]

Funerals can be REALLY expensive - at least $5K to $10K or even more depending on specifics.

I’m assuming he retained an attorney to help him through this. I’m not an expert on legal fees, but knows what the billable hours are for a case like this.

You would think someone with the level of success john

Majority of elite skaters are not rich.

John's net worth is reported in various places as being in the millions. How true that is, I don't know.

 

[Aerobicidal]

The comparison between figure skaters (who may still be underaged) who accused Coughlin and Joe McCarthy is one of the most ridiculous things I've read on FSU in 2019. We may only be three weeks into 2019 but that's still saying something.

 

[overedge]

Senator Joe McCarthy accused lots of people of being Communists. Many people in the entertainment industry had their careers and lives shattered because others in their field also accused them of left wing activities. Some of those people named were named multiple times.

Being the accuser does not inherently sanctify you. Being accused by more than one person does not inherently prove guilt.

And that is why there is an investigation, to see if the complaints are justified. I don't get your point. Should accusers not speak up if the complaints are eventually not supported?

 

[overedge]

You would think someone with the level of success john

John's net worth is reported in various places as being in the millions. How true that is, I don't know.

If you're Googling "[name] net worth" that information is not very reliable.

 

[PRlady]

This is well-past a skating story. I guarantee that Terry Gannon and the commentators for the pairs at Nats are already running their commentary by lawyers. It can’t be ignored and they will have to handle it very carefully.

Meanwhile, if an accuser is skating this week and multiple people know who it is, she’ll be doxed by Friday.

 

[MsZem]

To me, that's viewing this as simply a skating competition issue. This is now an international story! Any accuser named will be followed by the press, their families, friends and colleagues will be badgered for more information, their lives will be turned upside-down, and they will be doxxed, threatened, and more.

I hate to say this, but these things could happen even if the accusers try to remain anonymous.

As I wrote earlier, I hope there's a lot of support in place to help them through this and empower them to make the best decisions for themselves.

 

[CaliSteve]

John's net worth is reported in various places as being in the millions. How true that is, I don't know.

If that is true, I doubt it came from figure skating.

 

[Guinevere]

Honestly, the reaction from many prove to me that it was way easy to blame organizations for failure to protect athletes after the fact but it’s human nature and community support that allowed it to happen to that high degree. Even when Nassar stuff came out there were months of people demonizing the accusers and saying all sorts of slander against them and their motivations as to why they would file a complaint against such a good man. .

I was just thinking about how even now, USA Gymnastics seems to keep hiring someone and then a reporter or someone on social media will dig up an old tweet or statement from said new employee supporting Nassar and then they would have to fire/let go of this person. I mean, it's so evident now but even back then for one of the worst abusers in sports history, people were supporting him because "the guy they knew" couldn't/wouldn't do that. It just goes to show that we really don't know.

 

[skatingguy]

I agree as well that something was terribly wrong. However, I was responding to her angry tirade towards the following post:


Since this is not a criminal case, I don't think the response was appropriate:

I'm not sure if this was already mentioned, but my understanding is that the accusations have been referred to the police. It was mentioned in TSL interview with Christine Brennan, and in several other articles that I've read.

 

[rfisher]

I agree as well that something was terribly wrong. However, I was responding to her angry tirade towards the following post:


Since this is not a criminal case, I don't think the response was appropriate:

No one knows if there is/was a criminal case. SafeSport does not prosecute crimes. If you read their information, they have guidelines regarding potential criminal cases, in particular those involving minors. If there was a pending criminal case, it would not be public other than if charges were filed and that would depend on the jurisdiction. You could look at all the public records and determine if there was or was not, but it's a moot point now in regard to law enforcement unless they felt his death was a homicide. All other charges or complaints are no longer relevant.

The skating community does not have a right to know if the allegations were true or not. Only the IOC and USFSA. Unfortunately, John took away any closure for his family when he ended his life. Families nor friends nor fans do not have rights here. Only he did and he terminated those rights. The only others with rights to be protected are the three complaintants.

 

[PRlady]

Senator Joe McCarthy accused lots of people of being Communists. Many people in the entertainment industry had their careers and lives shattered because others in their field also accused them of left wing activities. Some of those people named were named multiple times.

Being the accuser does not inherently sanctify you. Being accused by more than one person does not inherently prove guilt.

And as it turns out, many of them actually had been members of the Communist party. This is not the example you want to use.

You would think someone with the level of success john

John's net worth is reported in various places as being in the millions. How true that is, I don't know.

Hi there Clarys91.

 

[MsZem]

John's net worth is reported in various places as being in the millions. How true that is, I don't know.

Did you look up this John Coughlin?

Yuna and Hanyu are worth millions (possibly more). An American pairs figure skater who never medalled at Worlds is not going to get rich off skating or sponsorships. Not even in the 1990s; certainly not now.

 

[Lanie]

And if the accuser is doxxed I hope we come out in support of her, whoever she is. Especially since we do not know if USFS would ever. If she wants to remain silent she absolutely should. I hope and pray she’s being supported.

 

[caseyy]

For me what is concerning is that there is a skater on Twitter who admits that “I don’t think he’s innocent” and that “yes he did a horrible thing” and “had a dark side.” He implies he knows the “true story” yet continues to defend John.
How many others are complicit as well in not reporting? This is indicative of a systemic issue.

 

[skatfan]

I hate to say this, but these things could happen even if the accusers try to remain anonymous.

As I wrote earlier, I hope there's a lot of support in place to help them through this and empower them to make the best decisions for themselves.

I agree with you and @PRlady that it is entirely possible that the accuser(s) may be doxxed soon. Terribly sad.

 

[Lanie]

And if other skaters knew, why did they say nothing? It makes them complicit as well. Again these complaints could run the gamut and be anything, but let's say it's something more severe. Skaters knew about it, or that it potentially happened. Why did they keep their mouths shut? Did they assume USFS would do nothing? If I was friends with someone and knew they were doing something like this even if it was remotely innocent, ie comments, I'd still say something to the Powers That Be. It seems nobody did this?

 

[missing]

And as it turns out, many of them actually had been members of the Communist party. This is not the example you want to use.



Hi there Clarys91.

Would you prefer me to go back to the Salem witch trials?

Without knowledge of what has been accused, what the relationship of the person making the accusation is to the actual event(s), when the event(s) occurred, the relevancy of the event(s) to the accused's professional status, and the quality of the organization doing the investigation, there are no more grounds for speculation that the accusation has merit than that it doesn't.

We know nothing. Accusations no more equal guilt than likability equals innocence.

 

[Scrufflet]

Mervin better do that. A “Tran Cam” will be following him throughout Detroit!

Exactly! He can set an example and show people how to pull together. I know not everyone will do that. US nationals will be rough on everyone.

 

[Willin]

@Lanie From what Mervin Tran said, there's a lot of rumors about a lot of skaters in the elite skating community and very few of them actually end up being true. Because of that when he heard the rumor he thought it was another one of the many false rumors he heard on a daily basis from the skating world.
I would also imagine it was something of a Bill Cosby situation: the guy was so nice and so well-respected that no one believed it could be him. I know I was skeptical because of his great reputation. So if you already hear a ton of rumors, most of which are false, and you hear a rumor that makes no sense based on your personal knowledge of the accused, you probably take it for a grain of salt and don't report. If you do report, you are at risk for being ostracized from the community for "ruining" the life of a beloved and prominent figure in it.
I think that's why this should continue to be investigated: how can we encourage reporting in this sort of situation and how can we protect the anonymity of the accuser in such a small community.

I really hope he/she isn't doxxed. That would make a bad situation even worse.

An inappropriate comment or joke would not result in a complete suspension of activities. People really have their heads in the clouds over this. The accusations had to have been much more serious.

We have no idea what he did. "Sexual misconduct" could be anything from a series of inappropriate jokes to drunken flirting to flashing someone to spying on people as they're changing. We shouldn't speculate. My point in that post was that it's entirely possible whatever he is accused of wasn't a huge or memorable event for him for whatever reason, and that's why he was confused about the event(s) mentioned in the allegations.

I'm actually pretty offended by the sentiment that "an inappropriate comment" couldn't lead to a complete suspension. If anyone said anything to a skater anything like what my past sexual harrassers said to me I hope they would be banned. And I made sure to get the people who sexually harrassed me suspended if I could. Unfortunately they were not kept away from me more permanently and I had to relive their abuse. I would cry and get scared at sexualized things for a few years after what they said. So no, "an inappropriate comment" or "joke" isn't necessarily a minor thing thank you very much. If you'd like to know what I mean I'd be happy to PM you the comments I'd gotten. This was 12 years ago and I still remember word-for-word.