Coughlin's Safe Sport Status Changed to Interim Suspension

[CaliSteve]

That's not what I'm arguing. The identity of the accusers should be protected at all costs, unless they want to come forward publicly. I've seen people in this forum speculate that the accusers are on a witch hunt against John Coughlin, that they are disgruntled diva skate moms, etc. I'm just saying that I think it would be a lot harder for folks who are arguing that John Coughlin is such a great guy from a 5 minute interaction they had with him at an event, if an accuser came forward and it so happened to be another skater they love. Consider that possibility, and see if it reframes your thinking.

Thank you for the clarification.

 

[overedge]

I thought I would share it. Even if it’s opinion, it’s no different than anyone else sharing their opinions here. Not saying it has any validity to it.

It doesn't even have validity as an opinion, because it has nothing to do with reality. It's tinfoil-hat conspiracy-theory ranting.

I tried to find out the qualifications of the investigators and I don’t see it in the SafeSport Literature. Does anyone know the answer to this? This is my question.

Why don't you Google them, if they are named? I doubt that a high-profile organization like SafeSport, dealing with complex sensitive issues with public outcomes, is using investigators without experience in investigative techniques and dispute resolution.

 

[Tavi]

I thought I would share it. Even if it’s opinion, it’s no different than anyone else sharing their opinions here. Not saying it has any validity to it.

I tried to find out the qualifications of the investigators and I don’t see it in the SafeSport Literature. Does anyone know the answer to this? This is my question.

Yes, I understand. As it happens, SafeSport has a job posting for an investigator which will give you some idea of the qualifications they are looking for:

https://safesport.bamboohr.com/jobs/view.php?id=1

Here is a full list of current job postings, that gives information on what they require in two other positions:

https://safesport.bamboohr.com/jobs/

Here is information on their policies and procedures:

https://safesport.org/policies-procedures

Here is information on their mission and board of directors:

https://safesport.org/who-we-are

I hope this is helpful.

 

[MK's Winter]

You can look at anyone you like funny, and you can choose to not hire that person as a coach or allow/fund a partnership with that person for your minor, unemancipated child, but that's neither a legal nor an administrative standard.

This is why whether Coughlin dated minors isn't specifically a legal standard unless the state where they live has a law against the student-teacher/coach relationship within a specific age range: the age of consent in almost all, if not all, states is lower than the age of majority. In Colorado, where he lived and coached, a 17-year-old can have sex with someone who is within 10 years of their age. So from that standpoint, it would depend on the age of the woman and how old he was at the time of the relationship, not just whether or not she was a minor.

Separately, there may be administrative/professional standards set by PSA that may or may not have anything to do with age.

Speaking of "minors," unless the state age of consent is 18 in all cases, is, at best, shorthand, and at worst, inflammatory, IMO. There are a lot of different inputs to the age calculation, if age is relevant.


I wasn’t referencing John when I made that statement. It was a generalization. Me looking at the difference in maturity between the ages. Nothing more. A poster brought up a point (generalizing) a scenario if that was legal. Those are my feelings on that.

 

[princeton123]

I'm sick. Three victims, two underage.

I'm even sicker thinking of these skaters posting all their tributes to an abuser like this. The culture in skating is toxic and I don't know how it can change. Which young athlete is ever going to come forward again, knowing this is the reaction they'll receive from their community and peers? I'm just so sad for everyone involved.

 

[CaliSteve]

I'm sick. Three victims, two underage.

I'm even sicker thinking of these skaters posting all their tributes to an abuser like this. The culture in skating is toxic and I don't know how it can change. Which young athlete is ever going to come forward again, knowing this is the reaction they'll receive from their community and peers? I'm just so sad for everyone involved.

I think people have a right to grieve the loss of a loved one, friend, etc. It doesnt mean they condone what they may or may not have done.

If you had a friend, family member, or loved one that was accused of something and they denied it, wouldn't you stick by them?

 

[princeton123]

I think people have a right to grieve the loss of a loved one, friend, etc. It doesnt mean they condone what they may or may not have done.

If you had a friend, family member, or loved one that was accused of something and they denied it, wouldn't you stick by them?

I wouldn't do it in public and create an environment where memorializing an abuser makes it harder for future victims to speak out from fear they won't be believed.

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

I wouldn't do it in public and create an environment where memorializing an abuser makes it harder for future victims to speak out from fear they won't be believed.

Has the investigation been concluded? If so, can you please provide a link? Thanks.

 

[Clarys91]

Anyone wondering about reports of his 'apparent' suicide? When will that be investigated? When will the results be released? And this Gofundme campaign for his funeral, whose target sum has already been raised? There is more to it that meets the eye imo...

 

[canbelto]

I had avoided commenting before but will now: I am frankly disgusted at the lack of empathy for the three victims, two of them minors. Safesport followed protocol. They investigated a complaint, they found it to have credibility, they suspended Coughlin. Coughlin's suicide is tragic but one has to wonder: if he were innocent, wouldn;t he have fought harder to clear his name? By taking his own life he's essentially closed the investigation forever and also closed any chance to clear his own name. His friends and family have a right to grieve but the anger directed at Safesport, Christine Brennan, and TSL is disgusting. This is exactly the sort of thing that allowed Larry Nassar to get away with what he did for so long.

 

[Clarys91]

And why would a man who knows he is innocent commit suicide? If wrongly accused, you get mad and fight for justice. Unless he had some severe mental issues (that would explain the suicide), that would be a more logical response. All this seems very fishy to me...

 

[CaliSteve]

I wouldn't do it in public and create an environment where memorializing an abuser makes it harder for future victims to speak out from fear they won't be believed.

If you believed in their innocence you would.

 

[Clarys91]

And why would a man who knows he is innocent commit suicide? If wrongly accused, you get mad and fight for justice. Unless he had some severe mental issues (that would explain the suicide), that would be a more logical response. All this seems very fishy to me...

I actually have some doubts about this whole suicide story, it wouldn't be the first faked death/suicide story in the media.

 

[ilovepaydays]

Anyone wondering about reports of his 'apparent' suicide? When will that be investigated? When will the results be released? And this Gofundme campaign for his funeral, whose target sum has already been raised? There is more to it that meets the eye imo...

Funerals can be REALLY expensive - at least $5K to $10K or even more depending on specifics.

I’m assuming he retained an attorney to help him through this. I’m not an expert on legal fees, but knows what the billable hours are for a case like this.

 

[Rafter]

Do we know this for a fact? Perhaps the legal expenses Sappenfield added to the original GoFundMe are for his family to work on clearing his name. Originally the fund was only seeking $10,000 for funeral expenses.

Some in the skating community I've been in touch with say that John was frustrated because the exact nature of the allegations against him had not even been revealed to him. We don't know for a fact that he was kept informed all along either. We don't actually know anything for a fact other than that a young man who was beloved by many is no longer here.

If that’s true (that he didn’t know the nature of allegations against him), that is awful. Why wouldn’t they tell him?

 

[skateboy]

Anyone wondering about reports of his 'apparent' suicide? When will that be investigated? When will the results be released? And this Gofundme campaign for his funeral, whose target sum has already been raised? There is more to it that meets the eye imo...

I guess I'm not too smart. Can you please explain further what you mean?

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

And why would a man who knows he is innocent commit suicide? If wrongly accused, you get mad and fight for justice. Unless he had some severe mental issues (that would explain the suicide), that would be a more logical response. All this seems very fishy to me...

Why would an innocent man commit suicide? I dunno, out of despair? Not believing in justice? Not having the will to fight? Negative experiences can trigger irrational reactions. Suicides are complex. Again, I am not saying John was innocent. I am simply answering a question.

 

[Prancer]

Coughlin's suicide is tragic but one has to wonder: if he were innocent, wouldn;t he have fought harder to clear his name? By taking his own life he's essentially closed the investigation forever and also closed any chance to clear his own name.

Or perhaps he was innocent and was overwhelmed by the accusations and acrimony? Or he had other issues and this was the straw that broke the camel's back?

All this seems very fishy to me...

It seems perfectly straightforward to me and I find your questions in your other post bizarre. Media reports always say "apparent suicide" until there is an official cause of death, which will be released when the coronor/pathologist releases it; it takes at least a day or two, sometimes much more. GoFundMes often top out almost immediately.

I actually have some doubts about this whole suicide story, it wouldn't be the first faked death/suicide story in the media.

Unless you have some sort of evidence to support this claim, drop it here.

Wild and unfounded speculation isn't going to help anything here.

 

[Clarys91]

Funerals can be REALLY expensive - at least $5K to $10K or even more depending on specifics.

I’m assuming he retained an attorney to help him through this. I’m not an expert on legal fees, but knows what the billable hours are for a case like this.

I'm not an expert on funeral costs or legal fees either, but I thought that as an elite figure skater, he was not exactly in need either...

 

[CaliSteve]

I actually have some doubts about this whole suicide story, it wouldn't be the first faked death/suicide story in the media.

Hmmmm......

 

[Sarah]

I’ve stayed silent for most of this discussion as I don’t have enough information to form an opinion. I hope the victims receive the help they need regardless of what happened.

But, suicide is not black and white. It’s not something that only the someone guilty would commit. I cannot fathom the mental anguish a person would have to feel to see death as the only answer. We need to talk about mental health. We need to talk about suicide.

 

[CaliSteve]

I'm not an expert on funeral costs or legal fees either, but I thought that as an elite figure skater, he was not exactly in need either...

Majority of elite skaters are not rich.

 

[Clarys91]

Or perhaps he was innocent and was overwhelmed by the accusations and acrimony? Or he had other issues and this was the straw that broke the camel's back?



It seems perfectly straightforward to me and I find your questions in your other post bizarre. Media reports always say "apparent suicide" until there is an official cause of death, which will be released when the coronor/pathologist releases it; it takes at least a day or two, sometimes much more. GoFundMes often top out almost immediately.

Wild and unfounded speculation isn't going to help anything here.

I don't know the exact procedures, but I reckon they do take time. In any case I can't wait for the confirmation of the actual facts of his death.
And I would rather keep an open, questioning/skeptical mind than swallow everything that's in the media/on the Net uncritically. Anyway, time will tell hopefully.

 

[yfbg722]

If that’s true (that he didn’t know the nature of allegations against him), that is awful. Why wouldn’t they tell him?

I don't know anything more than what I was told. I could speculate that while SafeSport was investigating they wanted to protect the identities of the accusers and/or prevent any kind of interference into the investigation but if it's true, it's wrong. I do feel he had a right to know and defend himself if he chose to.

 

[Clarys91]

Why would an innocent man commit suicide? I dunno, out of despair? Not believing in justice? Not having the will to fight? Negative experiences can trigger irrational reactions. Suicides are complex. Again, I am not saying John was innocent. I am simply answering a question.

If he was not ready to defend himself, then this self-sabotage is very sad...

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

I had avoided commenting before but will now: I am frankly disgusted at the lack of empathy for the three victims, two of them minors. Safesport followed protocol. They investigated a complaint, they found it to have credibility, they suspended Coughlin. Coughlin's suicide is tragic but one has to wonder: if he were innocent, wouldn;t he have fought harder to clear his name? By taking his own life he's essentially closed the investigation forever and also closed any chance to clear his own name. His friends and family have a right to grieve but the anger directed at Safesport, Christine Brennan, and TSL is disgusting. This is exactly the sort of thing that allowed Larry Nassar to get away with what he did for so long.

What empathy can we offer to unnamed victims of unknown alleged offense? We don't know what happened. Stupid sexual jokes? Or much worse? It's tough to speak about it without understanding the nature of the allegations, and what exactly has been proven to be true. I am sure everyone's hearts are aching for the accusers provided the allegations are true. Not only will they live with the consequences of the abuse (if it happened), but also possibly with guilt. And they are guilty of nothing.

 

[Prancer]

And I would rather keep an open, questioning/skeptical mind

You can think whatever you like. But I see no merit in having baseless conspiracy theories being tossed out there because you imagine yourself a critical thinker.

 

[CaliSteve]

I don't know anything more than what I was told. I could speculate that while SafeSport was investigating they wanted to protect the identities of the accusers and/or prevent any kind of interference into the investigation but if it's true, it's wrong. I do feel he had a right to know and defend himself if he chose to.

Why is it wrong?

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

If he was not ready to defend himself, then this self-sabotage is very sad...

Clarys, people don't always act rationally. Sometimes they get sad beyond what they can handle. That's why suicides are so common. Feelings of hopelessness, fear, worthlessness, sadness, etc etc lead people to do it. It doesn't make people weak. It's not self-sabotage. It's despair.

 

[skatfan]

Anyone wondering about reports of his 'apparent' suicide? When will that be investigated? When will the results be released? And this Gofundme campaign for his funeral, whose target sum has already been raised? There is more to it that meets the eye imo...

A death outside a medical facility and outside ongoing medical care means an autopsy in most jurisdictions, along with a coroner's report later. I imagine that will take weeks as they are probably including a toxicology report.

I can imagine that there are plenty of costs associated with a funeral, including having family members attend. I had to oversee my brother's tragic death which required specialized cleaning of the apartment (yeah, it was as bad as it sounds).