Coughlin's Safe Sport Status Changed to Interim Suspension

[Stephori]

Did you look up this John Coughlin?

Yuna and Hanyu are worth millions (possibly more). An American pairs figure skater who never medalled at Worlds is not going to get rich off skating or sponsorships. Not even in the 1990s; certainly not now.

Yes, that's the John I looked up. There was other information there, like skating partner, medals etc. I'm not saying the information about worth is correct, just reporting what I found on two different sites.

 

[Prancer]

No one knows if there is/was a criminal case.

This. The fact that a police report was filed indicates that someone thought there was at least the possiblity of a criminal case.

Whether that is true or not is unknown and likely to remain so.

I really think this discussion would go better if people talked about the issues rather than accusing or defending John Coughlin. No one knows enough to do either.

For me what is concerning is that there is a skater on Twitter who admits that “I don’t think he’s innocent” and that “yes he did a horrible thing” and “had a dark side.” He implies he knows the “true story” yet continues to defend John.
How many others are complicit as well in not reporting? This is indicative of a systemic issue.

Or it's indicative of a dramatic personality looking for attention.

Yes, that's the John I looked up. There was other information there, like skating partner, medals etc. I'm not saying the information about worth is correct, just reporting what I found on two different sites.

Given this: From 1994 to 2005, John was with The Parthenon Group, a strategic advisory and principal investment firm, where he was a Senior Partner and the founder and head of the firm's San Francisco office.

I suspect it's not the same John Coughlin and that some website is confused.

 

[overedge]

Yes, that's the John I looked up. There was other information there, like skating partner, medals etc. I'm not saying the information about worth is correct, just reporting what I found on two different sites.

Why report it if you don't know if it's correct?

 

[GarrAargHrumph]

At this point, US Figure Skating needs to hire a crisis management firm. I assume they already have good lawyers. This is getting way beyond what they are, in my observation, capable of handling.

 

[Vera Costa]

This is definitely going to sound controversial here, but you know what I’ve learnt since I was 14 and a teacher touched me in appropriately, what I’ve learnt when a girl in my country was brutally gang raped and my University professor questioned why she was out at 9pm, what I’ve learnt in the past few years of the Me Too movement?

Believe the victims, believe the survivors, believe the accusers.

Even outside FS, we as a society have continually failed them. I keep hearing about false accusations, well, Brock Turner got six months with parole for raping a woman, Brett Kavanaugh got appointed to the Supreme Court, Polanski, Woody, etc. False accusations are rare and not the problem here.

Sexual Misconduct of all spheres is all too common and because there is so little that can be used to prove it, all to often, the perpetrators go ahead and do the same or worse to more people. Look at what it took to get Weinstein and Nassar arrested. I’m all for the presumption of innocence in the court of the law, but the law fails survivors of sexual misconduct. So sometimes the court of public opinion is all that’s left to protect them.

 

[libecha]

@libecha They can interview the complainants and other parties (e.g. rink management) to try to shed some light on why multiple incidents occurred without any repercussions. That information might be extremely useful in discouraging or preventing further incidents.

Do you really think this has been going on for months without SafeSport interviewing the complainants? That would have been their very first step. Rink management or others likely didn't see anything (I will not speculate on what the incidents were or were not but usually perpetrators try to be covert about it) and if they did they are hardly going to tell the truth to SafeSport about it because it's pretty good odds that if you are running a rink intensively used by minors for training, that you are a mandated reporter and failing to report sexual misconduct that you witnessed will put you in the soup.

And at the end of all that, even if they do investigate, people will claim that they didn't hear Coughlin's side and the report is incomplete and Coughlin was such a nice guy and yadda yadda. It will provide closure to no one.

 

[overedge]

Do you really think this has been going on for months without SafeSport interviewing the complainants? That would have been their very first step. Rink management or others likely didn't see anything (I will not speculate on what the incidents were or were not but usually perpetrators try to be covert about it) and if they did they are hardly going to tell the truth to SafeSport about it because it's pretty good odds that if you are running a rink intensively used by minors for training, that you are a mandated reporter and failing to report sexual misconduct that you witnessed will put you in the soup.

And at the end of all that, even if they do investigate, people will claim that they didn't hear Coughlin's side and the report is incomplete and Coughlin was such a nice guy and yadda yadda. It will provide closure to no one.

Yes, I know that SafeSport has probably already doing interviews. But there may be other sources of information (e.g. copies of texts that were sent, which they can get from the recipients) or other interviewees. In any investigation like this, people are going to spin their stories to save their butts. But that's why you do multiple interviews, to see if the stories and the evidence tell a consistent tale, not just what one person is saying.

How people react afterwards is not SafeSport's problem. And SafeSport's job is not to provide closure. But it can make recommendations that others might learn from.

 

[skatfan]

At this point, US Figure Skating needs to hire a crisis management firm. I assume they already have good lawyers. This is getting way beyond what they are, in my observation, capable of handling.

Assume the worst - they will think they can handle it.

 

[CaliSteve]

We have no idea what he did. "Sexual misconduct" could be anything from a series of inappropriate jokes to drunken flirting to flashing someone to spying on people as they're changing. We shouldn't speculate. My point in that post was that it's entirely possible whatever he is accused of wasn't a huge or memorable event for him for whatever reason, and that's why he was confused about the event(s) mentioned in the allegations.

Here is a link to SafeSports definitions:

https://www.usfsa.org/content/SafeSport Definitions.pdf

 

[skatfan]

Do you really think this has been going on for months without SafeSport interviewing the complainants? That would have been their very first step. Rink management or others likely didn't see anything (I will not speculate on what the incidents were or were not but usually perpetrators try to be covert about it) and if they did they are hardly going to tell the truth to SafeSport about it because it's pretty good odds that if you are running a rink intensively used by minors for training, that you are a mandated reporter and failing to report sexual misconduct that you witnessed will put you in the soup.

And at the end of all that, even if they do investigate, people will claim that they didn't hear Coughlin's side and the report is incomplete and Coughlin was such a nice guy and yadda yadda. It will provide closure to no one.

According to the interview on TSL that was taken down, the investigators went back 20 years to look at the culture issues surrounded the allegations. It sounded like it was pretty thorough.

 

[CaliSteve]

Yes, that's the John I looked up. There was other information there, like skating partner, medals etc. I'm not saying the information about worth is correct, just reporting what I found on two different sites.

Not the same John C

https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnscoughlin

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

Here is a link to SafeSports definitions:

https://www.usfsa.org/content/SafeSport Definitions.pdf

Conduct which results in harm, the potential for harm, or the imminent threat of harm. Age is irrelevant to
misconduct. What exactly does this definition clarify? ps. People can look up links themselves. The links do not answer the questions. That's why the questions continue to be posed.

 

[Prancer]

Conduct which results in harm, the potential for harm, or the imminent threat of harm. Age is irrelevant to
misconduct. What exactly does this definition clarify? ps. People can look up links themselves. The links do not answer the questions. That's why the questions continue to be posed.

Sexual misconduct involves any touching or non-touching sexual interaction that is nonconsensual or forced, coerced or manipulated, or perpetrated in an aggressive, harassing, exploitative or threatening manner. It also includes any sexual interaction between an athlete and an individual with evaluative, direct or indirect authority which is considered an imbalance of power. Last, any act or conduct described as sexual abuse or misconduct under federal or state law (e.g., sexual abuse, sexual exploitation, rape) qualifies as sexual misconduct.

Notes:
• An imbalance of power is always assumed between an athlete, regardless of age, and an adult in a position of authority (such as a coach, official, director, employee, parent or volunteer.)
• Minors cannot consent to sexual activity with an adult. All sexual interaction between an adult and a minor is strictly prohibited.

Does that help?

I'm not sure what questions people want answered, unless the questions are some variation of "What was John accused of?" Unfortunately, I think it will all eventually come out because things do, but until then, no one can answer that question.

That's why I think it would be much more helpful to discuss the issues generally than to focus on the particulars of this case.

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

Sexual misconduct involves any touching or non-touching sexual interaction that is nonconsensual or forced, coerced or manipulated, or perpetrated in an aggressive, harassing, exploitative or threatening manner. It also includes any sexual interaction between an athlete and an individual with evaluative, direct or indirect authority which is considered an imbalance of power. Last, any act or conduct described as sexual abuse or misconduct under federal or state law (e.g., sexual abuse, sexual exploitation, rape) qualifies as sexual misconduct.

Notes:
• An imbalance of power is always assumed between an athlete, regardless of age, and an adult in a position of authority (such as a coach, official, director, employee, parent or volunteer.)
• Minors cannot consent to sexual activity with an adult. All sexual interaction between an adult and a minor is strictly prohibited.

Does that help?

Are you trying to help me? I have previously posted the definition of sexual misconduct vs. sexual assault. But thanks anyway.

 

[mag]

We have no idea what he did. "Sexual misconduct" could be anything from a series of inappropriate jokes to drunken flirting to flashing someone to spying on people as they're changing. We shouldn't speculate. My point in that post was that it's entirely possible whatever he is accused of wasn't a huge or memorable event for him for whatever reason, and that's why he was confused about the event(s) mentioned in the allegations...

This is what I find most worrying. Given the length of the investigation, the fact that two more complainants were found, the fact that law enforcement was involved, would indicate that what John was accused of was far more serious that a dirty joke or a drunken pass. Any reasonable person who is initially faced with being accused of what is essentially telling an off colour joke or making a fool of themselves when drunk, even if they can’t remember the specifics, is going to apologize profusely and move on - especially if it happened years ago and especially when you have as much to lose in your professional life as John did.

This is why, as others have said, the minimizing of what may have gone on just makes no sense. It is not reasonable and is insulting to the complainants. This doesn’t mean he was guilty, it just seems to indicate that whatever the complaint, it wasn’t a minor misunderstanding or a youthful indiscretion so to speak.

 

[overedge]

Conduct which results in harm, the potential for harm, or the imminent threat of harm. Age is irrelevant to
misconduct. What exactly does this definition clarify? ps. People can look up links themselves. The links do not answer the questions. That's why the questions continue to be posed.

It clarifies that the conduct has to involve an element of harm. Which excludes the "asked me for a date" type of offense, unless maybe it was "asked me for a date and wouldn't stop asking after I said no".

 

[Lanie]

USFS is completely incompetent and have probably protected this sort of behavior. I don't expect them to handle it well at all. They sure haven't shown they have done so, so far.

 

[Prancer]

Are you trying to help me? I have previously posted the definition of sexual misconduct vs. sexual assault. But thanks anyway.

That was the definition on the SafeSport site. I assumed you hadn't seen that part of it because it wasn't included in the part you quoted and pointed to as unclear. The part I quoted was much more specific. So yes, I thought it might help you.

 

[Willin]

This is what I find most worrying. Given the length of the investigation, the fact that two more complainants were found, the fact that law enforcement was involved, would indicate that what John was accused of was far more serious that a dirty joke or a drunken pass. Any reasonable person who is initially faced with being accused of what is essentially telling an off colour joke or making a fool of themselves when drunk, even if they can’t remember the specifics, is going to apologize profusely and move on - especially if it happened years ago and especially when you have as much to lose in your professional life as John did.

This is why, as others have said, the minimizing of what may have gone on just makes no sense. It is not reasonable and is insulting to the complainants. This doesn’t mean he was guilty, it just seems to indicate that whatever the complaint, it wasn’t a minor misunderstanding or a youthful indiscretion so to speak.

I do think it's concerning that he didn't remember it - I'm not saying it's not concerning. I'm just saying that that explanation makes a whole lot more sense in regards to his confusion about the allegations than the whole "they didn't tell him anything about it" theory others on this thread were espousing.

And I'm not trying to minimize what happened - as I said I've personally experienced verbal sexual harassment (and sexual assault) and I know how much of an effect even a "small" thing can have. Frankly it's more insulting to the complainants to say that any form of sexual misconduct no matter how "minor" you perceive it to be is not bad enough. And yes, sexual harassment can still lead to an investigation and is illegal even if it involves no touching. Frankly I have no idea what happened or what the complaint was or who made it, but I will stand up for the right to report any sexual misconduct no matter how "minor" - because no sexual misconduct is ever "minor." My initial comment was not to "minimize" but rather to show how broad this category of complaint could be. I agree that in this situation it was likely something much worse given the long and lengthy investigation, but we'll probably never know.

USFS is completely incompetent and have probably protected this sort of behavior. I don't expect them to handle it well at all. They sure haven't shown they have done so, so far.

Oh, I fully expect USFSA or at least one associated individual to say something inappropriate about the situation or give a full-on tribute in a poorly worded manner.

 

[BittyBug]

USFS is completely incompetent and have probably protected this sort of behavior. I don't expect them to handle it well at all. They sure haven't shown they have done so, so far.

I would agree that US Figure Skating has its challenges as an organization and may very well stumble in how they handle this tragic situation (tragic all the way around). But US Figure Skating and the skating community at large are not the same thing, and in my experience the organization itself is extremely conservative and extremely risk averse and takes SafeSport very seriously, so while members of the skating community may or may not abet bad behavior, I don't think that's true for the powers that be within the organization.

Having said that, I very much agree with @GarrAargHrumph. They would be wise to hire a crisis management firm as well as counselors to help them deal with this tragedy.

 

[Coco]

If there was a crime, wouldn't Coughlin been under arrest rather than under suspension? Can someone explain this? Had he committed sexual assault, rape, statutory rape, or had anything to do with child pornogrpahy and molestation - would the issue not be handled by the police and the DAs office? I know there is statue of limitations on some sexual crimes, and a possible gap between the age of consent and adulthood. I really would like to get a greater understanding of whether there was any possibility that the complaint was about actual sexual abuse of minors.

I honestly don't know what the distinction is but for most crimes, but not all, the victim needs to press charges. So if there had been a statutory rape or some kind of non-consensual sexual assault in the past, the victim would have to be the one to press charges. Prosecutors need the victim in crimes such as those in order to successfully prosecute and convicted the perpetrator. So if the victim does not support the criminal process moving forward, police and prosecutors will not take any action because there is no point. They can't get a conviction without the victim participating in the process.

And I'm not sure if this is still the case, but in some states with statutory rape, the victim would not be the one to press charges. Rather, it would be their parents who could press charges.

It makes sense to me that somebody might want to file a complaint with safesport, but not go through with a criminal trial. The safesport process is a lot more humane towards reporting parties, as they're called, then the criminal process is.

 

[platniumangel]

This isn't a criminal case. It's a complaint to a regulatory body. And I agree with @my little pony that three separate complaints against the same individual are a pretty strong indicator that something wrong was happening.

Why does everyone keep saying there are three separate complaints? That information was is not provided by safesport.

Christine Brennan alleged that there are 3 accusers. Why is her reporting taken as fact?

We don’t know the nature of the allegations, nor do we know if there was one or numerous complaints. We certainly do not know the ages of those involved yet.

I just don’t see why people keep talking as if they *know*

 

[Prancer]

According to Brennan, a police report was filed. That might mean that an investigation is/was underway and no arrest has been made. It might mean that the police didn't think there was enough evidence to file charges. It might mean that there the complaint was filed after a statute of limitations had expired. It might mean nothing at all.

Just because someone hasn't been arrested doesn't mean that there isn't a "yet" at the end of that sentence, so I wouldn't think that the lack of arrest means anything in terms of whether a crime was committed or not.

Why is her reporting taken as fact?

Why would it not be? She has no reason to lie and all kinds of reasons to not lie. If she were to lie about something like this, it could be easily disproven and she would lose her job and open herself up to lawsuits, among other things.

 

[skatfan]

Why does everyone keep saying there are three separate complaints? That information was is not provided by safesport.

Christine Brennan alleged that there are 3 accusers. Why is her reporting taken as fact?

We don’t know the nature of the allegations, nor do we know if there was one or numerous complaints. We certainly do not know the ages of those involved yet.

I just don’t see why people keep talking as if they *know*

I take Christine Brennan at her word because of her track record as a journalist, and that she works for a legit news source that has editors and lawyers making sure that she does her job well. If she is willing to say there are three complaints, there are three complaints to me.

Brennan also covered a lot of the Congressional hearings in the fallout of the gymnastics scandal, so she is very versed in the Safesport procedures, how they came to be what they are now. The reason there is public listing of interim measures is because we Americans asked for it after the sports Federations in several sports - including swimming and TaeKwondgo - failed to protect their athletes from abusers.

 

[hoptoad]

I would agree that US Figure Skating has its challenges as an organization and may very well stumble in how they handle this tragic situation (tragic all the way around). But US Figure Skating and the skating community at large are not the same thing, and in my experience the organization itself is extremely conservative and extremely risk averse and takes SafeSport very seriously, so while members of the skating community may or may not abet bad behavior, I don't think that's true for the powers that be within the organization.

Having said that, I very much agree with @GarrAargHrumph. They would be wise to hire a crisis management firm as well as counselors to help them deal with this tragedy.

I think it would be a great idea to hire counselors to be available to all the athletes during Nationals. Throw in a pack of therapy dogs for good measure.

 

[platniumangel]

According to Brennan, a police report was filed. That might mean that an investigation is/was underway and no arrest has been made. It might mean that the police didn't think there was enough evidence to file charges. It might mean that there the complaint was filed after a statute of limitations had expired. It might mean nothing at all.

Just because someone hasn't been arrested doesn't mean that there isn't a "yet" at the end of that sentence, so I wouldn't think that the lack of arrest means anything in terms of whether a crime was committed or not.



Why would it not be? She has no reason to lie and all kinds of reasons to not lie. If she were to lie about something like this, it could be easily disproven and she would lose her job and open herself up to lawsuits, among other things.

It’s all speculation because none of this information was officially released.

 

[overedge]

It’s all speculation because none of this information was officially released.

She specified that the information was from "a person with knowledge of the situation who was not authorized to talk publicly about the matter." It's not speculation, and as @Prancer noted, she has a lot to lose if her source is not reliable. Brennan has been doing her job long enough that she probably has a very good sense of who's a reliable source and who isn't.

It would be a very sad day for democracy and freedom of the press if nothing was reported on until information was "officially released".

 

[mollymgr]

USFS is completely incompetent and have probably protected this sort of behavior. I don't expect them to handle it well at all. They sure haven't shown they have done so, so far.

True. But given the times we live in post Nassar and other high profile cases of abuse in sport in the recent years, they need to change. If they don't do something about it, they run the risk of figure skating dying even more in the US. Judging and TV ratings/coverage are going to be the least of their problems. As a parent, no one can feel comfortable putting their kids through any skating program if they are left vulnerable and unable to bring injustice to the attention of those who are supposed to safeguard the sport.

 

[Prancer]

It’s all speculation because none of this information was officially released.

Sorry, but I disagree. There is a difference between speculation and journalism. A good reporter--and whatever you may think of Christine Brennan's opinion pieces, I know of no reason to think she is not a good reporter--reports solid information based on multiple sources, whether named or not.

It is always possible that she made something up or she didn't verify her information enough, but unless I have evidence to think that is the case, I don't see any reason to dismiss her reports.

 

[carriecmu0503]

Yes, that's the John I looked up. There was other information there, like skating partner, medals etc. I'm not saying the information about worth is correct, just reporting what I found on two different sites.

John Coughlin the skater is/ was 33 years old. Do you really think he was a senior partner at an investment firm beginning in 1994, when he would have been 9 years old? Seriously? Obviously not the same person.