Coughlin's Safe Sport Status Changed to Interim Suspension

[PRlady]

Brennan comes in for a lot of criticism for her skating coverage but the fact is that she’s a real reporter, trained in the rules of journalism. She used “believed to be” in that story because she had reliable sources telling her what it was off the record or on deep background.

TSL of course isn’t journalism and follows no rules.

 

[Vagabond]

A bit of disclosure so that people know where I am coming from: My much older brothers abused me in various ways when I was quite young. I am informed that the elder of the two has admitted to having "inappropriately touched" a young girl at least once in the past, and he is currently facing felony charges of sexting with an eleven-year-old girl. (He is more than old enough to be her grandfather.)

How astonishing that this discussion has ignored the needs of any victims! While victims are entitled to their privacy, light needs to be shone on how abuse can affect someone's life. Indeed, abuse can be a form of identity theft in its most literal sense, as it deprives a child or adolescent victim of the right to grow up as he or she would without having been abused.

Light needs to be shone on how abuse can affect mental health (in some cases, leading to suicidal thoughts or even suicide itself). Light needs to be shone on how abuse that does not constitute outright "sexual abuse" can have the same consequences as abuse that does. Light needs to be shone on the difference between what may be known about the abuse and what the victim does not disclose. Light needs to be shed on the needs of the abused. They need support and help, but they often find blame and belittlement instead.

Not every perpetrator can be helped. Some can only be punished.

The fact that someone has not been convicted of a crime does not mean he is innocent in any way other than in the legal sense. How terrible it would be if victims could not be believed or helped until their abuser was convicted!

I do not plan to continue reading the Coughlin threads but would consider exchanging private messages with anyone who does not retraumatize me.

[/RANT]

 

[Jarrett]

Brennan comes in for a lot of criticism for her skating coverage but the fact is that she’s a real reporter, trained in the rules of journalism. She used “believed to be” in that story because she had reliable sources telling her what it was off the record or on deep background.

TSL of course isn’t journalism and follows no rules.

Isn't that just another assumption? She might have sources but she never even said that. Couldn't "believed to be" also just be group think or popular opinion?

 

[princeton123]

A bit of disclosure so that people know where I am coming from: My much older brothers abused me in various ways when I was quite young. I am informed that the elder of the two has admitted to "inappropriately touched" a young girl at least once in the past, and he is currently facing felony charges of sexting with an eleven-year-old girl. (He is more than old enough to be her grandfather.)

How astonishing that this discussion has ignored the needs of any victims! While victims are entitled to their privacy, light needs to be shone on how abuse can affect someone's life. Indeed, abuse can be a form of identity theft in its most literal sense, as it deprives a child or adolescent victim of the right to grow up as he or she would without having been abused.

Light needs to be shone on how abuse can affect mental health (in some cases, leading to suicidal thoughts or even suicide itself). Light needs to be shone on how abuse that does not constitute outright "sexual abuse" can have the same consequences as abuse that does. Light needs to be shone on the difference between what may be known about the abuse and what the victim does not disclose. Light needs to be shed on the needs of the abused. They need support and help, but they often find blame and belittlement instead.

Not every perpetrator can be helped. Some can only be punished.

The fact that someone has not been convicted of a crime does not mean he is innocent in any way other than in the legal sense. How terrible it would be if victims could not be believed or helped until their abuser was convicted!

I do not plan to continue reading the Coughlin threads but would consider exchanging private messages with anyone who does not retraumatize me.

[/RANT]

Wonderful post. I am truly baffled by all the users caping for the rights of the accused in this thread while completely ignoring the actual victims who were hurt. What about their rights?

 

[skatingguy]

But saying the allegations are sexual in nature and that there were multiple allegations are assumptions, not facts. Correct?

Not necessarily. I don't have access to the sources that Christine Brennan is talking to, but the fact that Safe Sport is handling the allegation handling suggests an allegation of a sexual nature, and the fact that the level of restriction was raised suggests that additional accusations were made. That is providing context for the facts based on what we know about the organization, it's methods, and procedures.

 

[Lacey]

Stunning, absolutely stunning, news.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Isn't that just another assumption? She might have sources but she never even said that. Couldn't "believed to be" also just be group think or popular opinion?

Brennan's phrasing reminds me of how Kathy Griffin would joke in her tv specials about including the loophole, 'allegedly' in her stand-up routines, to avoid being sued.

 

[Lanie]

Nobody knows what happened because SafeSport and USFS handled it so poorly. So there are assumptions, rumors flying about as fact. I can't see anyone here wanting the alleged victims to not have justice and peace in their lives if whatever happened did happen. See how convoluted it is because we know nothing? It's tragic. I was molested as a child (by my own doctor) and nobody ever believed me. I get it. I don't think the victims were well handled by this situation either by it being hidden for whatever reason. And for some of us who met him or knew him it's shocking because you don't think someone you know could do such a thing. I sure don't know what I think... except that the investigation has to continue and if those who have accused him of whatever it is are okay with it, it should come out so people know what happened. And hopefully the procedures will be different next time.

 

[barbarafan]

Firstly, TSL did not stick to facts on the public record, they implied a lot more. It was these implications that people read between the lines of, and as is human nature, sometimes the people reading made 2+2=6

As I stated, Safe Sport was already doing their job and taking care of an investigation. Nobody else was in any danger.

As for blaming TSL, I don’t! That’s you doing exactly what I said, reading between the lines and making 2+2=6.

Yes, I referenced something that some people would associate with TSL and I did do that on purpose. This was to illustrate just how some people can read things and jump to a conclusion. It’s easy to do, but it doesn’t feel good when it’s done to you.

I don’t blame TSL for John’s death. I do however, hope that they stop and take a good hard look at their motivations throughout all of this. I hope they were pure, I truly, truly hope they were, but at the same time, I hope this gives them real pause to think and reflect on the power that their words can hold.

Many times words are said about skaters, their costumes, their weight, their music, pretty much anything they do, that can be hurtful. There are a number of threads on here about skaters and their mental health. People may say that the skaters shouldn’t read it, but sometimes they do, and of course sometimes people tell them things that are written about them.

This is beyond sad. I doubt that anyone, including TSL, expected it to play out this way.

I just want everyone to stop, think and be a little kinder.

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't Safesport's job consist of investigating all claims of sexual, physical and verbal abuse within the sport. As well the accusation did not state which it was. So for all we know it could have been a prima Donna who thought her skating was perfect and a coach was there to tell her how wonderful she was and in frustration of her ignoring everything he said he told her loudly just how ugly her spins were and the brat went home,complained to parents who complained to Safesport. It looks like the exact same procedure would have been followed if this had happened or if it was a sexual assault. To post this on a site and suspend someone when you have no idea if the accusation is real or contrived strikes me as not completely fair. I think a better way of handling this sort of thing should be thought out and procedures put in place. There is a middle ground. I have seen both sides so I am leary of commentating on this sort of thing until the facts are out. I have had physical attempts on a long term basis by someone well liked and respected and also a few attempted groppings of males in responsible positions and I know someone very well who was raped in a sporting situation ...she and her parents and lawyer did everything right and he still got off. I have also when I was younger seen teens who were way too young to be thinking that way hit on try to seduce older men and some were quite nasty when they were turned down. So....it really depends.....

 

[MK's Winter]

I want to start by saying I don’t think this thread should be closed. There are skaters who post in here and ending all conversation basically tells them to be quiet. Silence on matters like this is how situations wind up not being reported.

On the This and That episode TSL stated that a former athlete had brought this to their attention. Not all athletes love TSL but it’s apparent that there are athletes that do. And felt that their platform could be helpful. John was still coaching at that point. Parents of underage athletes had a right to know. I would also like to point out that Alex Naddour, the bronze medalist from Rio, had a case opened, published, and in the end was cleared. Christine did her job. Neither TSL or Christine Brennan elevated his status. Safe Sport cannot just elevate status with no cause. More people came forward. That is what happens when there is transparency.

While I realize Daliliah is mourning and that this is an incredibly difficult situation for her- her FB post is alarming. She is a coach. You can stand for someone- I’m not saying she can’t- but based off of her post- I wouldn’t feel comfortable reporting to her- if it was someone she knows and likes. That shouldn’t be lost here. I’m not trying to be insensitive, I feel for her on a human level. The figure skating community is small and insular, everyone is connected one way or another. I think people should be cognizant of that.

My heart breaks for all involved.

If anyone in here is struggling not just with this but anything- there is help: 1-800-273-8255

 

[princeton123]

I have also when I was younger seen teens who were way too young to be thinking that way hit on try to seduce older men and some were quite nasty when they were turned down. So....it really depends.....

Please stop. Some of the misogyny in this thread is honestly sickening.

 

[ZilphaK]

Regarding my previous comment, I want to be clear that both the accused and victims need to be protected from unfounded accusations that are no more than gossip and speculation as much as possible; respected news outlets taking the lead on cracking down on the nonsense spewed in their comments sections can set an important tone and show a brighter line between "real news" and tabloid sensationalism. Right now, those lines can be hhard to discern on ccurrent digital landscapes.

 

[her grace]

Safesport should complete the investigation so that the reported victim(s) can receive some measure of justice or so that Coughlin's name can be cleared, whichever the investigation reveals.

 

[PRlady]

Isn't that just another assumption? She might have sources but she never even said that. Couldn't "believed to be" also just be group think or popular opinion?

Not to a journalist. It should mean that there are reliable sources with information, but she can’t say the accusations “are” this or that because she doesn’t have two sources on the record. But this is a lot more than, for example, Trump’s “people are saying.”

Please stop. Some of the misogyny in this thread is honestly sickening.

The poster who wrote about young teens seducing older men didn’t specify gender, presumably there are young teen boys who also try.

As someone who once was a stupid and precocious teenager with lots of inappropriate crushes on older guys, I never assume that every inappropriate relationship is coerced. That doesn’t mean the adult doesn’t have a responsibility to stay away from minors, of course s/he does. But there’s a spectrum of bad behavior and I don’t assume coerced or physical abuse is always the case.

 

[mackiecat]

I am worried about how this will affect the victims. I was assaulted as a child by my next door neighbor but not strong enough to come forward. I was worried how it would affect my parents and the parents of the boy. It still haunts me.
So these victims were brave to come forward. Now what must be going through their minds? Does this further victimize them? I fear for them. I hope they have the assistance they will need.

 

[rfisher]

Isn't that just another assumption? She might have sources but she never even said that. Couldn't "believed to be" also just be group think or popular opinion?

John replied by email to USA today that he had been informed by SafeSport of allegations made against him and that he could not discuss them at that time. I would hope he had retained an attorney. So, they reported what they knew. They reached out to Coughlin. They were able to confirm that he'd resigned from being a representative for Wilson Blades, had been removed from his job by NBC and that the USFSA had removed him from all positions. Those were the facts as reported. People's responses were based on their own speculation. That is not the fault of the news outlet. I'm certain nobody anticipated the ultimate and tragic outcome. But, I do not see that SafeSport, USFSA nor even USAToday were irresponsible in their actions. I have nothing to say about TSL or any of the people who follow them on FB or Twitter.

 

[ZilphaK]

I am worried about how this will affect the victims. I was assaulted as a child by my next door neighbor but not strong enough to come forward. I was worried how it would affect my parents and the parents of the boy. It still haunts me.
So these victims were brave to come forward. Now what must be going through their minds? Does this further victimize them? I fear for them. I hope they have the assistance they will need.

The anguish and pain that happens after a suicide is like no other. Those who lodged complaints will surely need intense and lengthy support. This is going to be complex and horrific for them emotionally, psychologically, socially.... I hope they are surrounded by love right now.

 

[UGG]

The lack of empathy for the victim or victims is astounding. However if the allegations are untrue, the media did not create them. There is actually a living person that reported some sort of misconduct. I kind of feel like that is getting lost by many here.

 

[barbarafan]

Not to a journalist. It should mean that there are reliable sources with information, but she can’t say the accusations “are” this or that because she doesn’t have two sources on the record. But this is a lot more than, for example, Trump’s “people are saying.”




The poster who wrote about young teens seducing older men didn’t specify gender, presumably there are young teen boys who also try.

As someone who once was a stupid and precocious teenager with lots of inappropriate crushes on older guys, I never assume that every inappropriate relationship is coerced. That doesn’t mean the adult doesn’t have a responsibility to stay away from minors, of course s/he does. But there’s a spectrum of bad behavior and I don’t assume coerced or physical abuse is always the case.

Thank-you....sorry to leave out boys.Of course the same thing happens either way. All I am saying is there is such a thing as wrong place, wrong time and there are times when the person accused is innocent so there are measures which can be taken without completely destroying someone's life when they may not have done anything wrong. This is in no way saying that the victims in this case should not be heard and protected and definitely should have help. Having gone through something the same I know how it can make a difference the rest of your life. I am very strong willed (and was always this way) and valued my privacy but know that some of my personality defects came from these incidents. For instance I tend to mentally buck authority. I do not automatically respect someone because of their position. I quietly observe their behavior for a period of time and then make the decision if I should respect them or not. Also if someone approaches me quietly from behind me and reaches out to touch me they can get a big surprise when I whip around.

 

[giselle23]

The lack of empathy for the victim or victims is astounding. However if the allegations are untrue, the media did not create them. There is actually a living person that reported some sort of misconduct. I kind of feel like that is getting lost by many here.

We don’t know who the victims are or what they have alleged. When that information comes out, if it does, it can be addressed. I am giving him the presumption of innocence right now. Whatever the truth is, it is tragic that he thought he had to take his own life because of it.

 

[Aerobicidal]

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't Safesport's job consist of investigating all claims of sexual, physical and verbal abuse within the sport. As well the accusation did not state which it was. So for all we know it could have been a prima Donna who thought her skating was perfect and a coach was there to tell her how wonderful she was and in frustration of her ignoring everything he said he told her loudly just how ugly her spins were and the brat went home,complained to parents who complained to Safesport. It looks like the exact same procedure would have been followed if this had happened or if it was a sexual assault. To post this on a site and suspend someone when you have no idea if the accusation is real or contrived strikes me as not completely fair. I think a better way of handling this sort of thing should be thought out and procedures put in place. There is a middle ground. I have seen both sides so I am leary of commentating on this sort of thing until the facts are out. I have had physical attempts on a long term basis by someone well liked and respected and also a few attempted groppings of males in responsible positions and I know someone very well who was raped in a sporting situation ...she and her parents and lawyer did everything right and he still got off. I have also when I was younger seen teens who were way too young to be thinking that way hit on try to seduce older men and some were quite nasty when they were turned down. So....it really depends.....

I'm hesitant to comment in this thread, so I'll be brief: The parts of the above post I have highlighted are exactly what perpetuates a sexist and demeaning narrative about survivors. Anyone, go back and read the first closed thread about this or the first two pages of this thread and see if anyone mentioned maybe the accusers were good people, or cat owners, etc.

That being said, of course I feel horrible for everyone associated with this: Coughlin, friends, family, survivors (assuming there are survivors), and their friends and family. Social media and gossip complicate an already beyond-messy cultural and legal scenario here and I'm surely in no position to make suggestions about how things could be better, although I wish they could.

Finally--and I promise I'm not saying this because I want to control other people's discourse--I use the terms "accusers" and "survivors" instead of "victims" because I refuse to believe that power operates on a 0/100% binary. I may be wrong and I would never argue with anyone who preferred "victim," but I believe that people and society do have the ability to fight back against evil even when situations seem hopeless.

 

[Golden1]

Even if he had done whatever he was accused of doing, redemption was always possible. One or two or even 100 bad acts does not make a person irredeemable, and does not negate the good they've done.

As a teacher who just had to listen to a student talking about her recent abuse by her uncle who was apparently "such a nice guy who always helped everyone around him" reading things like this make me sick.
If I had a child who was skating I would absolutely want to know about these allegations and I wouldn't let my child be coached or be close to someone who was accused of abuse in any way. And we shouldn't forget how low the numbers of false accusations are.
Reading some of these posts here makes me sick and it reminds me why the above mentioned student refuses to go to the police because no one will believe her over this "great man" anyway.

 

[genevieve]

So these victims were brave to come forward. Now what must be going through their minds? Does this further victimize them? I fear for them. I hope they have the assistance they will need.

Given the discourse I've seen so far, I think this will definitely have an impact on future skaters stepping forward, at least in the short term.

As for the accusers in this situation, I hope that SafeSport will step up their support for them.

 

[PDilemma]

I am worried about how this will affect the victims. I was assaulted as a child by my next door neighbor but not strong enough to come forward. I was worried how it would affect my parents and the parents of the boy. It still haunts me.
So these victims were brave to come forward. Now what must be going through their minds? Does this further victimize them? I fear for them. I hope they have the assistance they will need.

But there's a bigger issue here......

If he assaulted someone, sexually or otherwise regardless of age, or if he sexually or physically abused minors, then this shouldn't have been an unspecified silent investigation by an outside organization with no legal standing. This should have been turned over to local law enforcement and (if minors were involved) a local child protection agency. The fact that it wasn't either means that the allegations were not criminal in nature--not assault or abuse of minors-- or SafeSport is run by Benedict XVI. So which is it?

 

[CantALoop]

As a teacher who just had to listen to a student talking about her recent abuse by her uncle who was apparently "such a nice guy who always helped everyone around him" reading things like this make me sick...
Reading some of these posts here makes me sick and it reminds me why the above mentioned student refuses to go to the police because no one will believe her over this "great man" anyway.

Exactly. It's the basis for #metoo and why it took so long to take down Larry Nassar, Harvey Weinstein, Bill Cosby, etc.

Bill Cosby was an amazing philanthropist who donated millions of dollars to charity, especially educational ones that helped black and socioeconomically poor students. When the allegations came out, I was really hoping they weren't true, but they were, and all of that philanthropy doesn't make up for the fact that he abused his victims.

I'm no psychologist, but I think people like him get to a point when they think doing other good deeds gives them permission to do the reprehensible, which it doesn't. It might seem like a waste for all the good that someone does, but that should never be used to cover for them abusing others, nor can it be used to "redeem" them.

 

[ZilphaK]

But there's a bigger issue here......

If he assaulted someone, sexually or otherwise regardless of age, or if he sexually or physically abused minors, then this shouldn't have been an unspecified silent investigation by an outside organization with no legal standing. This should have been turned over to local law enforcement and (if minors were involved) a local child protection agency. The fact that it wasn't either means that the allegations were not criminal in nature--not assault or abuse of minors-- or SafeSport is run by Benedict XVI. So which is it?

From scouting to schools to workplace to sports...there's a line where "internal investigation" becomes CYA in the wrong way.

 

[rfisher]

We don’t know who the victims are or what they have alleged. When that information comes out, if it does, it can be addressed. I am giving him the presumption of innocence right now. Whatever the truth is, it is tragic that he thought he had to take his own life because of it.

I can't imagine that will ever become public knowledge now. John Coughlin removed himself from the equation. At this point there is nothing left for SafeSport to investigate or act upon. There is no current or future threat to any athlete. I suppose his family could continue to pursue this and make the information public, but I'm not sure how. If those who made the complaint to SafeSport wish to file civil damages against Coughlin's estate or USFSA, I suppose they could and their attorney(ies) could subpoena any information. Otherwise, I can see no way any additional information would be made public. It is no longer a public concern.

 

[PDilemma]

From scouting to schools to workplace to sports...there's a line where "internal investigation" becomes CYA in the wrong way.

Exactly. Does anyone know what SafeSport's policy on turning allegations over to law enforcement is?

I taught in a Catholic school, from 2002 on, all employees (from admins down to janitors) and volunteers have had to have periodic training on maintaining Safe Environments for youth including understanding signs of grooming and abuse and REPORTING. Whether it is followed or not (and, yes, I know it often is not), the rule in Catholic churches and schools is that any allegations of abuse must be immediately reported to local law enforcement and child protection agencies. If SafeSport is not operating under those rules that must be addressed.

If they are and are doing so stringently, then the assumption that Coughlin was guilty of some sort of criminal abuse (and any sexual contact with a minor is criminal--someone I worked with went to jail for three years for trying to kiss a minor student) is wrong. If they are not doing so, then they are not a legitimate means for protecting kids in sports.

 

[DimaToe]

But there's a bigger issue here......

If he assaulted someone, sexually or otherwise regardless of age, or if he sexually or physically abused minors, then this shouldn't have been an unspecified silent investigation by an outside organization with no legal standing. This should have been turned over to local law enforcement and (if minors were involved) a local child protection agency. The fact that it wasn't either means that the allegations were not criminal in nature--not assault or abuse of minors-- or SafeSport is run by Benedict XVI. So which is it?

It is you not having a clue, that is what it is, given the controversy surrounding law enforcement in the U.S. as of late. Somebody relying on local law enforcement on such a misunderstood topic like sexual assault doesn’t seem like one of the best options most of the time. People used SafeSport for the purpose that it was implemented, or whatever resources there were. The effects of assault in Olympic sports were due to hit skating sooner of later. The level of chosen ignorance is rather alarming IMO and this is just at the fan level.

 

[PDilemma]

It is you not having a clue, that is what it is, given the controversy surrounding law enforcement is the U.S. as of late. Somebody relying on on local law enforcement on such a misunderstood topic like as sexual assault doesn’t seem like one of the best options most of the time. People used SafeSport for the purpose that it was implemented, or whatever resources there were. The effects of assault in Olympic sports were due to hit skating sooner of later. The level of chosen ignorance is rather alarming IMO and this is just at the fan level.

I'm just going to take a wild guess that I know more about these issues than you having sat through over 20 hours of training about understanding the signs of abuse, identifying grooming behavior and knowing when and who to report suspected abuse to. But whatever.