Elizabet Tursynbaeva's Mother - interview re Orser, Eteri, training issues.

[Meoima]

Have I missed something? Please do name names! I know nothing about ghosts in the hotel room.

We have a Russian famous skater (and the coach) blaming their bad skate on a hypnotist...
and a Russian famous reporter calling some people some supernatural master...

 

[Tinami Amori]

Or reserve it for bizarre scenarios, such as skaters blaming a poor skate on the ghost in the closet at their hotel room. I think no names need mention!

Some skaters at Iceland ice-arena in Sacramento, Ca. believed the rink was/is haunted and see sightings of ghosts..
https://backpackerverse.com/dont-anger-the-ghost-of-iceland-skating-rink-in-sacramento/
https://www.trueghosttales.com/stories/haunting-ice-arena.php

In MA, some people at Cronin Ice Rink see ghosts too...
video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ni_s3yMrH0

 

[Sylvia]

Or reserve it for bizarre scenarios, such as skaters blaming a poor skate on the ghost in the closet at their hotel room. I think no names need mention!

Have I missed something? Please do name names! I know nothing about ghosts in the hotel room.

@Japanfan is referring to the "famous" story of Emmanuel Sandhu and his haunted hotel room (at 2001 Skate Canada in Saskatoon). In my Google search just now, one fan claimed that Sandhu mentioned it "on the day of the SP and did not blame his [free?] skate on that." (ETA: He placed 2nd in SP, 6th in FS & 5th overall.)

 

[Tinami Amori]

@Japanfan is referring to the "famous" story of Emmanuel Sandhu and his haunted hotel room (at 2001 Skate Canada in Saskatoon). In my Google search just now, and one fan claimed that Sandhu mentioned it "on the day of the SP and did not blame his skate on that."

Sandhu must have remembered "that ghost" well, judging by his designs in Plushenko's show..
https://www.instagram.com/p/Br1YKUKB1Zy/

 

[bardtoob]

TursyMom: Of course, it is standard practice, yet technique from Tutberidze was not affected (saved) under Orser. We begged Eteri (to take us) for a long time, conducted negotiations. Eteri Georgievna, when she works, she puts her soul into it, and is not held back by formalities, perhaps that is why she has such results. She is a well organized (disciplined) coach with a great team – coach Dudakov, choreographer Gleikh.

Hmmm ... I would say Orser has better results than Eteri right now, albeit not by a lot, so I find this comment a bit irrational.

In Canada, in general, if a child doing sports, his parents pay for everything, and we soon learned that it is not so each to secure state’s support (for the training) as it is usually done in Russia. In Russia it is a given ...

TursyMom: Over there (in the west) you’re left to your own devices, a lot you have to decide on your own, all the way to selecting your own programmes. But when you make a mistake, it is your mistake. Orser, pretty much, gives a 20 minute lesson, and he is responsible for these 20 minutes. But for the “global results” you need to either fetch for yourself, or to have a strong Federation behind you, like Russia, to help, to support.

It is true, this is the Western system, and anybody wanting to move from a socially funded system should be prepared to find funding.

If you really want it, it can be done. Denis Ten managed to train in an expensive place in the West, Southern California, with Frank Carroll and made it to the Olympic podium representing Kazakhstan, not a powerful federation, rather than switching.

I imagine she works hard for her daughter, but it does not sound like it is Mrs.Ten hard, who even showed up at 3am in the morning with Denis to wish Frank Carroll goodbye as he departed from his last Olympics although Denis did not make the podium again.

Maybe some are not cut out for the free market and need programs supplied by the state for training, equipment and materials to do one's work, medicine, etc.

 

[Japanfan]

Maybe some are not cut out for the free market and need programs supplied by the state for training, equipment and materials to do one's work, medicine, etc.

More like, maybe some don't have the resources to pay for their child to figure skate.

There are some ambitious, goal-driven, entreprenurial types who thrive and prosper in the free market, but many, many others simply do their best within it, among them many salaried workers and wage slaves.

There is a reason most figure skaters in the west come from families who are relatively wealthy. Not all, I know - some have relied on community and other support. But most.

 

[bardtoob]

More like, maybe some don't have the resources to pay for their child to figure skate.

There are some ambitious, goal-driven, entreprenurial types who thrive and prosper in the free market, but many, many others simply do their best within it, among them many salaried workers and wage slaves.

There is a reason most figure skaters in the west come from families who are relatively wealthy. Not all, I know - some have relied on community and other support. But most.

Then why did she come to Canada if she needed somebody else to pay for her daught's skating and be responsible for everything right down to selecting music?

@Japanfan you can't "blame Canada for not being Russia", particularly when you are from Kazakhstan and not entitled to anything from Canada or Russia.

 

[Japanfan]

Then why did she come to Canada if she needed somebody else to pay for her daught's skating and be responsible for everything right down to selecting music?

IDK. My comment was general with regard to 'not cut out for it' - you need to have money if you are required to spend it for something. Not having money for something really expensive like your child figure skating is not necessarily a personal failing.

I wasn't commenting specifically on TursyMom.

Obviously a parent/skater need to pay for training in the west (and elsewhere) if there is no funding available to them (or limited funding).

And the Tursymom quote Tinami Amori posted above (#35) is a bit vague to me, not necessarily about money. 'Fetch for yourself' could mean 'toot your own horn', 'make your own way' or 'be your own champion'.

She could also be referring to the benefit or push that skaters get from belonging to a powerful federation with political clout. It's true that skaters belonging to less powerful federations don't have that same benefit.

@Japanfan you can't "blame Canada for not being Russia", particularly when you are from Kazakhstan and not entitled to anything from Canada or Russia.

Agreed, but I don't see her doing that in the quote in post #35. Maybe she said something else pertinent to your point that I haven't read.

 

[bardtoob]

IDK. My comment was general with regard to 'not cut out for it' - you need to have money if you are required to spend it for something. Not having money for something really expensive like your child figure skating is not necessarily a personal failing.

She was from one environment, chose another environment, transplanted herself there, then left because everything was not provided in a way she preferred. It sounds like "not cut out for it" is an apt description.

Whether or not her preference is a personal failing is a political question.

And the Tursymom quote Tinami Amori posted above (#35) is a bit vague to me, not necessarily about money. 'Fetch for yourself' could mean 'toot your own horn', 'make your own way' or 'be your own champion'.

And parents in the West do it. They are called "skating moms" and "skating dads", and most successful skaters from the West give credit to them ... Carol Heiss, Peggy Fleming, Dorothy Hamill ... Pat Lipinski, Danny Kwan ...

ETA: I Googled " crazy skating mom" and it returned one of our own threads

https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/crazy-skating-parents.103021/

 

[Japanfan]

She was from one environment, chose another environment, transplanted herself there, then left because everything was not provided in a way she preferred. It sounds like "not cut out for it" is an apt description.

As I said already, I don't know the whole story. So I really can't make a judgment.

Whether or not her preference is a personal failing is a political question.

Please explain what you mean by this.

And parents in the West do it. They are called "skating moms" and "skating dads", and most successful skaters from the West give credit to them ... Carol Heiss, Peggy Fleming, Dorothy Hamill ... Pat Lipinski, Danny Kwan ...

Does Tursymom have the same amount money as those parents did?

 

[bardtoob]

Does Tursymom have the same amount money as those parents did?

There is a lot of variation.

Carol and Peggy were pretty poor working class. Carol said her skates and other things were given to her through donations and fundraisers, and Peggy said she consciously tried to be prettier in the "way she skated" to make up for not having designer costumes that others had.

Danny, an immigrant, liquidated all the family assets he earned since immigrating for Michelle and Karen.

I think Dorothy was middle income, but she said she was not well connected and had trouble getting admitted to the Skating Club of New York.

Tara's family could pay for everything.

 

[bardtoob]

As I said already, I don't know the whole story. So I really can't make a judgment.

Do you think she explained herself badly in the interview?

 

[Japanfan]

Do you think she explained herself badly in the interview?

I just reread it. I think she is making a comparison, not issuing a complaint.

Danny, an immigrant, liquidated all the family assets he earned since immigrating for Michelle and Karen.

Didn't he also own a business or two?

Point is, he had assets to liquidate. IIRC he remortgaged the family home - in which case he had to have the asset to start off with.

There is a lot of variation.

Carol and Peggy were pretty poor working class. Carol said her skates and other things were given to her through donations and fundraisers, and Peggy said she consciously tried to be prettier in the "way she skated" to make up for not having designer costumes that others had.

Even so, I'd wager that most skaters today come from families with 'relative' wealth. Skating isn't cheap, and the money has to come from somewhere. It's not a sport for the poor.

'Back in the day', things were somewhat easier.

 

[bardtoob]

Didn't he also own a business or two?

Point is, he had assets to liquidate. IIRC he remortgaged the family home - in which case he had to have the asset to start off with.

Why does she not have assets? Does she even try to make money?

Why is his hard work discounted?

Even so, I'd wager that most skaters today come from families with 'relative' wealth. Skating isn't cheap, and the money has to come from somewhere. It's not a sport for the poor.

'Back in the day', things were somewhat easier.

Again, why did she come to Canada for things offered in Russia?

BTW is Tsurymom poor or is that an assumption you are making? For all I know, she maybe richer than I will ever be. Kazakhstan is an oil state.

If you are trying to make point about access to skating, I have a great post about Catherine Machado and Rudy Galindo to point you to.

https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/oksana-baiul.105067/page-2#post-5498154

 

[Japanfan]

Why does she not have assets? Does she even try to make money?

I don't know the answers to those questions.

But assets in Kazahkstan aren't equal to assets in Canada/the U.S.A.

Why is his hard work discounted?

I'm not discounting it. I'm sure Danny Kwan worked/works very hard - it's evident in the work ethic he passed on to his daughters.

My point was that assets/money are need to support a figure skater. Figure skating is an expensive sport.

Again, why did she come to Canada for things offered in Russia?

I don't know how to answer that question. Ostensibly, she had some reason for coming for Canada.

BTW is Tsurymom poor or is that an assumption you are making? For all I know, she maybe richer than I will ever be. Kazakhstan is an oil state.

I don't know whether she is poor or rich or in-between.

I just don't feel I have enough information to pass any judgment on Tsurymom.

Those of you want to, on.

 

[Finsta]

Some see my comment insensitive but why blame Frank for all Gracies problems. He tried helping. People who don’t know make lies and blame him. I know his friends and he tried. That all I will say. I like Gracie much but blaming him is just as insensitive as saying she a headcase.

 

[lala]

here is one..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YfXMm7mc5Y

incredible cute!

 

[barbarafan]

I don't know the answers to those questions.

But assets in Kazahkstan aren't equal to assets in Canada/the U.S.A.



I'm not discounting it. I'm sure Danny Kwan worked/works very hard - it's evident in the work ethic he passed on to his daughters.

My point was that assets/money are need to support a figure skater. Figure skating is an expensive sport.



I don't know how to answer that question. Ostensibly, she had some reason for coming for Canada.



I don't know whether she is poor or rich or in-between.

I just don't feel I have enough information to pass any judgment on Tsurymom.

Those of you want to, on.

ss

They live in Russia but are not Russians so therefore they do not get freebies. Elizabet was training under Eteri but the Fed did not want foreigners training in Russia under Russian coaches re:2014 Olympics and so she could not continue with Eteri. I do not know what made her got to Brian at that point but when she went home during off season Eteri let her skate at her club and that is where she picked up the Rippon jumps on every jump which messed up last years skating season.