The Dance Hall 6: We're All Off Our Rockers 2018-2019

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I do think there is some difference in hitting one's levels and having great basic skating skills throughout the routine. Madison Chock is an example of a skater who people like to cite of not utilizing her edges as strongly as other female ice dancers but we all know Chock/Bates have hit a lot of level 4s on their footwork and patterns. And those who are known for great edgework have been hit with level 2s and such.
 
VIETgrlTerifa said:
I do think there is some difference in hitting one's levels and having great basic skating skills throughout the routine. Madison Chock is an example of a skater who people like to cite of not utilizing her edges as strongly as other female ice dancers but we all know Chock/Bates have hit a lot of level 4s on their footwork and patterns. And those who are known for great edgework have been hit with level 2s and such.
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It’s a grey area for sure.
I’ve always thought Chock and Bates were slow and cautious in their footwork.
Ease is a whole different argument.
To me Shibs and P and C have ease of movement . C and B not as much.
But I also find G and P to be steady improvers through the season.
And as levels are what’s marked that’s what I do by to judge skills in general. Since there’s very little time for anything else.
 
Well, you want more than a three, don't you. And it's only one event. But seriously, no one gets to 6th in the World with bad skating skills. You really have to be getting at least 3s most of the time by mid-season. (The teams getting mostly 2s have been the ones fighting to make the cut (16-20 territory). Though if you can bring in the 4s on the footwork, that's been yet another level up over the past couple seasons.

VIETgrlTerifa said:
I do think there is some difference in hitting one's levels and having great basic skating skills throughout the routine.
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But we didn't say "great" skating skills. Just not "bad" ones. And I don't see how you could be getting level 3, much less level 4 footwork with bad skating skills. A level 4 lift, sure.

I do think Weaver & Poje have stronger skating skills than Gilles & Poirier. There has been no comparison in speed--which is one indicator--when I have seen them live. (Which has been more than once, although I haven't seen G&P live since Boston, mind you). I saw W&P live last year, and when they are confident they are still very fast. They tighten up, though, when they are nervous. Still faster than G&P were the last time I saw them though.

starrynight said:
If everyone likes you in ice dance then it's clearly a sign you're not particularly successful and no one views you as a threat.

There's also something in ice dance fandom which I call the 'Uber Matrix'. It goes like: I uber Team A, therefore I hate Team B because they might beat them, I like Team C because they are a non threatening ally of Team A who I have adopted to prove I like teams other than team A, so I hate Team D because they are a threat to Team C, I also love Team E because they might beat Team D, I also don't like Team F because while they won't beat Team A they do something better than them, so I will selectively support Team D but only if they can beat Team F. But if Team C or E get in the way of Team A I will also hate them.
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This is so fabulous that I wanted to give it 5 thumbs up, and I didn't even need to follow it past the first couple lines.
(y)(y)(y)(y)(y)
 
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I feel like conversation around teams skating skills for one thing doesn't tend to acknowledge improvement over the passage of time and tends to freeze them where they were six years ago.

But even more than that I feel like there's a tendency towards exaggeration over time. Someone will note a genuine flaw, in skating skills or presentation or what have you and it becomes a standard part of the narrative that gets repeated over and over with greater emphasis until anyone solely reading forum posts might wonder why there are so many skaters at the top who can't even seem to do a snowplow stop without assistance, and why there are so many slow world medallists with no expression.
 
chameleonster said:
I feel like conversation around teams skating skills for one thing doesn't tend to acknowledge improvement over the passage of time and tends to freeze them where they were six years ago.
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Especially when you have a partnership in which one athlete was well established internationally first. The conversation always begins with how that athlete is stronger. And those assumptions often fail to shift even after the other skater has grown by leaps and bounds. So I like that some of those athletes are going to get some well-earned recognition on some of the protocols this season.
 
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Dobre said:
But we didn't say "great" skating skills. Just not "bad" ones. And I don't see how you could be getting level 3, much less level 4 footwork with bad skating skills. A level 4 lift, sure.
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The conversation was about Piper and how @chantilly keeps hearing how she doesn't have "good" or "great" skating skills, so the word "great" was used. In the example of Madison Chock, people have certainly said she had "bad" skating skills or she "can't hit an edge to save her life." In the context of this conversation that tends to happen among fans, nobody is talking about a lower level but the top level where "good", "bad", "mediocre", "great", etc. mean something different than looking at the overall skating spectrum from beginner level to top senior level.
 
I think this is a problem, though. It's something that happens all the time. Reminiscent of when we only got to watch the top 3-5 dance teams on television during a competition. It leads to people being outraged that so-and-so could possibly get close to so-and-so.

But the judges aren't marking those top 5 dance teams in isolation. They are marking all those senior teams clear down to the Bulgarians and Australians. (And potentially beyond if you get into Senior Bs or Nationals).

The judges do have to parse apart those very top teams. But the difference between great and bad is a vast deal greater than the top 10.

And if Piper has to deal with the heat, then Paul should have gotten a little after Nebelhorn;).
 
Dobre said:
I think this is a problem, though. It's something that happens all the time. Reminiscent of when we only got to watch the top 3-5 dance teams on television during a competition. It leads to people being outraged that so-and-so could possibly get close to so-and-so.

But the judges aren't marking those top 5 dance teams in isolation. They are marking all those senior teams clear down to the Bulgarians and Australians. (And potentially beyond if you get into Senior Bs or Nationals).

The judges do have to parse apart those very top teams. But the difference between great and bad is a vast deal greater than the top 10.

And if Piper has to deal with the heat, then Paul should have gotten a little after Nebelhorn;).
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I think you just spoke THE TRUTH.
 
Dobre said:
Especially when you have a partnership in which one athlete was well established internationally first. The conversation always begins with how that athlete is stronger. And those assumptions often fail to shift even after the other skater has grown by leaps and bounds. So I like that some of those athletes are going to get some well-earned recognition on some of the protocols this season.
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Indeed. Piper didn't even go senior until she teamed up with Paul, if I remember correctly.

Although sometimes people DO acknowledge that Skater A is no longer noticeably better than Skater B... And then proceed to say that Skater A has peaked and Skater B could do better and shine more with a different partner. Usually right when the team in question is starting to really hit their stride.
 
MarieM said:
Not with this season's program.
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I've got to say I agree.

OTOH, Ben & Tanith's Amelie came out of a season in which they started off with Fred & Ginger. So there could still be hope.

At the least, though, I think H&D need to change all the stopping & sliding there in the one section of the FD. It goes nowhere, and feels like a giant hole in the middle of the program. Also, WTH with all the smiling in the tango? Haven't you ever wanted to kill him Maddie? Channel that emotion.
 
I really like both G/P dances this year. I love their tango and Piper's dress. Their FD is special in that they achieve to remain themselves with their own personality and way of skating (not P/C like at all) while skating to a different softer kind of music than they usually do.

The only thing I don't like, are the two (one in the RF and one in the FD) "à la G/F" lifts. Those are a no go for me even if they are well integrated in the coregraphy with the music. Also I'm not crazy about Piper's FD dress.
 
mollymgr said:
The most painful to watch SD season was Paso Doble for me. Hip Hop ended up being entertaining. We get Musical, Operetta and Broadway next year.:shuffle:
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:yikes: there IS going to be a POTO ban in the rules, right?

OTOH, maybe someone will do a Pippin RD. I’ve been waiting for that for a long time.

Could someone point me to the post with the video links? I’m on travel and have to catch up with a few.
 
EYGH said:
The only thing I don't like, are the two (one in the RF and one in the FD) "à la G/F" lifts. Those are a no go for me even if they are well integrated in the coregraphy with the music.
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Those are not "a la GF" lifts. This type of lifts have been done by others parallel to and before them. Also, I personally love G/P's RD lift - I think the variation is really original and beautiful.
 
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For ballet fans, Bukin’s gf’s VK account is a hoot. She has tons of pics of baby Igor Tsvirko and Artem Ovcharenko with a Bieber cut.
 
Dobre said:
My feeling also. Kind of like a cross between a paso and a flamenco. But fun & sharp.


Meanwhile, Russia and their host spots:rolleyes:.
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Laughable. Bagin and Ms. Morozov recently competed and again he fell. This time from a twizzle. LOL. Even Ilinykh and Shibnev would have been a much better prospect or pick. Crazy I tell you. CRAAAAZZZyyyyyy.
 
supergirl573 said:
Confetti exploded on the ice during Stepanova/Bukin's RD at Finlandia.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xosbBGipVE&feature=youtu.be
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It did not really "explode". Someone who was there told that the bird was building a nest up in the rafters and apparently was tugging loose some old confetti in the process. I have no idea how it got up there in the first place, but at least it was not some stupid member of the public throwing confetti on ice while skaters were skating. The confetti fell also during Soucisse/Firus's RD performance, and they too had to interrupt it when Shane Firus noticed the confetti. It continued to fall during the pairs FS, and Cain/De Luc almost skated on the confetti several times, but did not stop - probably did not see it.
 
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