The Dance Hall 6: We're All Off Our Rockers 2018-2019

[dramagrrl]

I've been waiting for a Rent program for years. I'm assuming the reason why it hasn't been used much (if at all?) is because almost every song has some sort of "risqué" lyrics. But if skaters can regularly skate to a song about a bunch of women who murdered their husbands, I would think Rent would be okay.

I love musical theatre, so I really hope next season's RD doesn't turn out to be 100 versions of Chicago, West Side Story, Moulin Rouge, and other musicals that are already way overused in figure skating.

Piper >>> Vanessa

Vanessa probably has better skating skills, but Piper’s nowhere near as bad as some claim. Plus, Piper had much more charisma, better presentation, better posture and as a team, they have better programs.

I don't think Piper is a bad skater at all, and I commend her for all the hard work and improvements she has made since she partnered with Paul. That being said, I disagree with everything said above except for the "better posture" part, which shows how subjective this sport can be.

 

[thvu]

I'm crossing my fingers for a Rent program next year. I can't believe it's over 20 years old, and it's due for some ice dance love.

 

[allezfred]

Before we go any further, van Gogh is not pronounced "van GO".

Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

 

[barbarafan]

I've been waiting for a Rent program for years. I'm assuming the reason why it hasn't been used much (if at all?) is because almost every song has some sort of "risqué" lyrics. But if skaters can regularly skate to a song about a bunch of women who murdered their husbands, I would think Rent would be okay.

I love musical theatre, so I really hope next season's RD doesn't turn out to be 100 versions of Chicago, West Side Story, Moulin Rouge, and other musicals that are already way overused in figure skating.



I don't think Piper is a bad skater at all, and I commend her for all the hard work and improvements she has made since she partnered with Paul. That being said, I disagree with everything said above except for the "better posture" part, which shows how subjective this sport can be.

Her posture was always good except in the last yr they were together...An easy fix...If you look at older programs there was not a problem.

It would seem skating skills are a much harder fix

 

[mjb52]

Before we go any further, van Gogh is not pronounced "van GO".

Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

I will never forget the first time I heard a British person pronounce Van Gogh.

And she will never forget the first time she heard ME pronounce "marchioness."

 

[VGThuy]

I will never forget the first time I heard a British person pronounce Van Gogh.

And she will never forget the first time she heard ME pronounce "marchioness."

Apparently, it's not "van GOFF" either. It's more like "van HOCKH" with a glottal -gh sound at the end.

 

[cocotaffy]

Apparently, it's not "van GOFF" either. It's more like "van HOCKH" with a glottal -gh sound at the end.

Here you go folks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ceo7E1R78yo And now everyone repeats ....

 

[VGThuy]

Here you go folks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ceo7E1R78yo And now everyone repeats ....

So is it "van HO" with a bit of glottal sound at the end?

 

[cocotaffy]

So is it "van HO" with a bit of glottal sound at the end?

Sounds like it and the first g is what's called a fricative I believe. Anyway, this thread has taken a bit of a turn. Let's see how papa Simon on British Eurosport will distort that one. He already opted to call Guillaume, Gwilhem which is a celtic take on it.

 

[canadianskater]

I actually don't hate Piper at all. I just much preferred Paul with Vanessa.

Agree to disagree about G/P never being boring. I think sometimes when you try too hard to be interesting, the opposite effect happens... (I'm definitely not saying this about all or even the majority of their programs, but they have definitely had multiple programs that have bored me, personally.)

I agree. I saw them for the first time live at 2008 Skate Canada and they left a lasting impression on me. I appreciate Piper with Paul but I preferred him with Vanessa.

 

[allezfred]

So is it "van HO" with a bit of glottal sound at the end?

 

[chantilly]

I’ve read several times that Piper doesn’t have good or great skating skills.
But I’d like some clarification from some folks.
As I think they’re perfectly fine.

I don’t want to start an argument. It’s just a constant statement, with little to no explanation.

 

[allezfred]

I agree. I saw them for the first time live at 2008 Skate Canada and they left a lasting impression on me. I appreciate Piper with Paul but I preferred him with Vanessa.

I am going to say that Gilles/Poirier’s free dance this season has surpassed anything I have ever seen by a Canadian dance team for emotional depth. Crone/Poirier never had and were never going to have that sort of chemistry.

 

[allezfred]

I’ve read several times that Piper doesn’t have good or great skating skills.
But I’d like some clarification from some folks.
As I think they’re perfectly fine.

I don’t want to start an argument. It’s just a constant statement, with little to no explanation.

I have an explanation - people have an obsession with pairs and ice dance teams being childhood sweethearts/best buddies and woe betide anyone who breaks that up.

 

[chantilly]

I am going to say that Gilles/Poirier’s free dance this season has surpassed anything I have ever seen by a Canadian dance team for emotional depth. Crone/Poirier never had and were never going to have that sort of chemistry.

I don’t at all agree on the emotional depth comment, but agree PAUL and Vanessa didn’t have chemistry.

 

[chantilly]

I have an explanation - people have an obsession with pairs and ice dance teams being childhood sweethearts/best buddies and woe betide anyone who breaks that up.

If true that’s dumb.

I find her skating skills very good.
They have a rhythm named after them or created by then and a spin change .
That’s not from bad skating skills.
Her edges are fine and her turns aren’t scratchy.
She also has some of the best authentic and natural expression of all the top ice dancers.

 

[puglover]

Dance/pair teams that have enjoyed success, particularly on the world stage, seem very unlikely to split for no reason. When Tessa and Scott talk about all the work they did to remain partners for over 20 years, I believe them. These are such intense relationships and it is no surprise that those begun in childhood don't always work out. I can't imagine how frustrating it must be to form a subsequent successful partnership, only to be constantly compared to what was and was not meant to be any longer. I liked Vanessa and Paul and I like Piper and Paul. Piper and Paul are the ones still entertaining us, so I cheer for them.

 

[starrynight]

If everyone likes you in ice dance then it's clearly a sign you're not particularly successful and no one views you as a threat.

There's also something in ice dance fandom which I call the 'Uber Matrix'. It goes like: I uber Team A, therefore I hate Team B because they might beat them, I like Team C because they are a non threatening ally of Team A who I have adopted to prove I like teams other than team A, so I hate Team D because they are a threat to Team C, I also love Team E because they might beat Team D, I also don't like Team F because while they won't beat Team A they do something better than them, so I will selectively support Team D but only if they can beat Team F. But if Team C or E get in the way of Team A I will also hate them.

LOL did anyone manage to follow that?

I could draw a diagram with either P/C or V/M or D/W as team A and then fill in the subsequent teams below if I wanted.

I think Piper and Paul have also got themselves caught up in the uber matrix. Either as team D or F.

Hubbell/Donohue are at the moment good example of being in the uber matrix. I think in many cases they are actually Team C for both the P/C and V/M matrixes.

 

[dramagrrl]

I am going to say that Gilles/Poirier’s free dance this season has surpassed anything I have ever seen by a Canadian dance team for emotional depth. Crone/Poirier never had and were never going to have that sort of chemistry.

1) I completely disagree with the first statement; 2) I think making such a statement after seeing a program that has been skated in competition exactly once is rather hyperbolic, and 3) While I would agree with those who would say Vanessa and Paul lacked romantic or sexual chemistry, I don't particularly think Paul has that with Piper, either.

I can't imagine how frustrating it must be to form a subsequent successful partnership, only to be constantly compared to what was and was not meant to be any longer. I liked Vanessa and Paul and I like Piper and Paul. Piper and Paul are the ones still entertaining us, so I cheer for them.

I think that when you leave a successful partnership, people are going to assume you did so at least partly because you thought you would have more success with the new partner. Given that Piper and Paul have achieved in six seasons together, at their best, pretty much the exact same international results as Paul achieved with Vanessa, and less nationally (since C/P were Canadian champions and G/P have not achieved that goal yet), it is reasonable that some of us will compare the success of the former partnership with the current. That doesn't mean I don't cheer for G/P. They aren't my favourites, but I have enjoyed several of their programs, and if they continue winning medals for Canada, that's great.

As for the "uber matrix" theory, I am supposedly a VM "uber" (I say supposedly because the whole "uber" label makes me roll my eyes ), but I definitely do not hate PC. Of the current competitive teams, they are my favourite, even though all the PC crazies who think I'm a troll (despite the fact that I was posting on FSU before VM were competing even at the pre-novice level) will never believe it. And further on said matrix, I guess H/D would be allies of P/C who aren't going to threaten their reign, so I should hate them under that theory, but I also like them a lot, etc.

 

[VGThuy]

Wait until the scenario where H/D might beat P/C.

 

[dramagrrl]

Wait until the scenario where H/D might beat P/C.

I suppose anything is possible, and again, I do like H/D a lot, so I'm not meaning this as an insult, but... I don't really see that happening any time soon, if ever.

 

[VGThuy]

My point is just that people turn on teams when the unimaginable happens.

 

[yurokis40]

I think Gilles and Poirier will medal at worlds I can see that program gaining an enormous following, they look truly different this year better chemistry and Paul Poirier has really improved in the fd and the music is great.

 

[mollymgr]

If everyone likes you in ice dance then it's clearly a sign you're not particularly successful and no one views you as a threat.

There's also something in ice dance fandom which I call the 'Uber Matrix'. It goes like: I uber Team A, therefore I hate Team B because they might beat them, I like Team C because they are a non threatening ally of Team A who I have adopted to prove I like teams other than team A, so I hate Team D because they are a threat to Team C, I also love Team E because they might beat Team D, I also don't like Team F because while they won't beat Team A they do something better than them, so I will selectively support Team D but only if they can beat Team F. But if Team C or E get in the way of Team A I will also hate them.

LOL did anyone manage to follow that?

I could draw a diagram with either P/C or V/M or D/W as team A and then fill in the subsequent teams below if I wanted.

I think Piper and Paul have also got themselves caught up in the uber matrix. Either as team D or F.

Hubbell/Donohue are at the moment good example of being in the uber matrix. I think in many cases they are actually Team C for both the P/C and V/M matrixes.

This is great. I'm sure ice dance judging is similar. Judges are people too. I want to know how many judges are ubers?

 

[starrynight]

Wait until the scenario where H/D might beat P/C.

I suppose anything is possible, and again, I do like H/D a lot, so I'm not meaning this as an insult, but... I don't really see that happening any time soon, if ever.

If Hubbell/Donohue have a successful season they could easily become Team F in the P/C uber matrix. I've seen Team C turn into Team F if they start getting too big for their boots

 

[allezfred]

I think making such a statement after seeing a program that has been skated in competition exactly once is rather hyperbolic

I have good taste in ice dance.

 

[puglover]

Maybe "success" for a team is sharing a common vision, and all that that entails such as commitment, willingness to relocate, ability to solve issues together, etc., etc. that have major impact on the day to day and probably, eventually, on the results.

 

[her grace]

Feel-good FD of the year: Fear/Gibson
Feel-bad FD of the year: Mueller/Dieck

Regarding Gilles/Poirier, the FD didn't hold my attention. Will watch again on the GP and see if my opinion changes. I really liked their RD, though.

Of the bigger names, the only one I thought started the season already very polished and improved was Guignard/Fabbri. OTOH, most teams start off slowly and improve as the season goes on. It's still very early.

 

[Dobre]

I’ve read several times that Piper doesn’t have good or great skating skills.
But I’d like some clarification from some folks.

So one of the things I like about the new separate marks for the lady and the man on the one-foot footwork and the pattern keypoints is that a number of the suppositions we, as fans, tend to make about which member of the team is getting downgraded are being debunked in various competitions. Or at least we are getting to see that both partners are "sharing the wealth" when it comes to who drops the levels.

A few examples:
Smart & Diaz on the pattern. He definitely lost at least one of those keypoints if not all of them.
Carreira & Ponomarenko at Nebelhorn. She got the level 4 footwork sequence.
Gilles & Poirier at Nebelhorn. She got the three on the footwork. He got a two. (His mistake you could actually see, but not everyone watches closely so having it in black & white doesn't hurt).

Anyway, like someone else who posted earlier, I too worried that the separate marks might lead to arguments or partner splits. But you know, it just may be the reverse and lessen the always-blame-the-same-partner fan criticism faced by a number of dance teams.

 

[chantilly]

^
This post just proves my “huh” query about the Piper doesn’t have good skating skills.
She received a level 3. At an early stage of the season.
He yes made a mistake and received a level 2.
If footwork is the most difficult, i.e. the quad of skating and she received a level 3, this seems to disprove all the Piper has bad skating skills naysayers.