The Dance Hall 6: We're All Off Our Rockers 2018-2019

[Lara111]

C/P will be Igor’s top team unless other teams move to Novi. Who else does Igor have?

Kolesnik/Nguen

 

[chameleonster]

C/P will be Igor’s top team unless other teams move to Novi. Who else does Igor have?

Well, its not confirmed that C/B are leaving yet, but if they do, I think its likely C/P will be the top team. Coomes/Buckland indicated they might continue but I don't know if they actually will. Igor still has Nazarova/Nikitin and Min/Gamelin, and Aldridge/Eaton as well, presumably, if he and Pasquale are joining forces. That would also mean Wolfkostin/Zhao in addition to Nguyen Kolesnik. And there are several partnerless skaters having tryouts, but for the time being C/P seem like the top priority.

I wonder how this will influence C/P's decision to go senior or not.

 

[RoseRed]

Well, its not confirmed that C/B are leaving yet, but if they do, I think its likely C/P will be the top team. Coomes/Buckland indicated they might continue but I don't know if they actually will. Igor still has Nazarova/Nikitin and Min/Gamelin, and Aldridge/Eaton as well, presumably, if he and Pasquale are joining forces. That would also mean Wolfkostin/Zhao in addition to Nguyen Kolesnik. And there are several partnerless skaters having tryouts, but for the time being C/P seem like the top priority.

I wonder how this will influence C/P's decision to go senior or not.

I would think the Shibs not competing along with P/B splitting would have a bigger impact, because it makes it a bit more likely that there will be room for the fed to get them a second GP spot (I think someone said they'll be top 24 when the WS is updated?). Overall those two things opened up the US field a little.

 

[Anyasnake]

I would think the Shibs not competing along with P/B splitting would have a bigger impact, because it makes it a bit more likely that there will be room for the fed to get them a second GP spot (I think someone said they'll be top 24 when the WS is updated?). Overall those two things opened up the US field a little.

H/D, C/B, H/B, Parsons, M/C. I don't really know where to put C/P among those teams, because there is a bit of reputation scoring going on too...
They could stay Juniors one more year and establish themselves as a very strong first - although there are a couple of very strong Russian teams. I don't know if they are ready to tackle the tango.

 

[thvu]

Pasquale/Igor sounds like an unusual combo but could indeed be interesting. What camp Igor has been lacking the past few years is an artistic vision, maybe Pasquale's presence could bring some new ideas.

That left when Marina left, and even then there wasn't that much to begin with.

 

[VGThuy]

This how I see the three Detroit ice dance coaches right now.

Igor has is the ability to create new lifts and think of ways of pushing the elements in different ways so that teams do them with confidence and conviction, and teaching his teams to be physically and technically ready for competition. He even makes them fit to do pretty dense choreography (denser than what Marina and Montreal do). However, he cannot choreograph to save his life. He has a lot of choreography but a lot of it is done with no purpose and he resuses generic arm movements and facial expressions and such.

Marina's strength is knowing how to get the teams to really hit highlights in the music and to make them look clean and polished. She also has this weird spell on her students where they see her as a maternal figure. She seems to have a lot of knowledge of music and dance history and knows how to place elements in ways where you notice them. A movement does not tend to be wasted under her watch. However, she can't really choreograph from scratch either and she has issues with transitioning her elements to a choreographic whole. She is far from a technical expert as she relies on others to come up with elements and to drill those elements for her skaters. She's more about finishing and making sure the overall look is presented in the best way for the judges. We all know she's limited in her range as well as is clear with the Shibs and how they had to look elsewhere for choreography.

Pasquale is more of the artist. He seems to know how to choreograph from scratch and create new concepts and ideas for his teams. He doesn't seem to know tech as well as Anjelika Krylova was considered the technical coach of their partnership. The editing of his programs can use some work as he can choreograph beautiful or excellent programs but they almost all always are missing something extra that makes it rise above a great/excellent program to something a bit more undeniable and beyond. Some times his choreography can be forgettable or messy too, but I think that only happens when he's out of ideas for a team.

So in short:

Igor = tech coach who can come up with new lifts and new footwork and will push the skaters technically but can't choreograph and definitely fills out the space of a 4 minute FD, but doesn't really know how to fill out the space in a program with anything related to actual dance in-between his elements.

Pasquale = can create programs from scratch, has range of ideas, and can do both classical programs and programs that are more avant garde...but is missing something that pushes his programs over-the-edge to first tier status, and some times has taste issues or doesn't know how to edit.

Marina = Tends to have more romantic/classical taste that judges like. Knows how to edit, and pace a program, and can give a program/team a really polished and finished look that can improve a program and how the team is perceived. However, does not seem to have much technical expertise to be helpful with IJS scoring, and is limited in actually creating a program from scratch and some times can't come up with interesting choreography outside of making the elements look good and in the correct order.

I think they'd be great together myself but I know that's never happening.

 

[starrynight]

Some of his sources are lowlifes who will throw out anything to watch it drop or for their own end. Dave does not seem to be bright enough to be able to figure out who is really a friend as opposed to an opportunist. I may find his supposed news entertaining at times but would never take them serious without other confirmations.

I almost think that at this stage, spreading a rumour a team (or someone in their behind the scenes backing) wants to go to Gadbois is a way to undermine their coaching arrangement and make them look desperate. It's hard to believe what TSL say because he's got an agenda which involves trying to suck up to any coaching team which will let him near their doors (and Gadbois is one of them). And chances are, any source wanting to spill this on C/B probably has their own agenda too - seeing as C/B's main rivals are at Gadbois.

The whole thing lacks imagination. Really rooting for Pasquale/Igor to create a dream team and to inject some diversity back into this monopoly.

I think that if there was uncertainty about what was happening in Detroit/with Igor, the idea of Pasquale joining forces should be attractive enough to make C/B want to stay. I think Igor's technical skills with Pasquale's creativity will be a very good combination.

That left when Marina left, and even then there wasn't that much to begin with.

I disagree with that. I thought Marina did a great job in particular of changing the style of ice dance in around 2010 with DW/VM exhibiting a cleaner look than all the previous teams dragging along kilos of shredded fabric, rhinestones and cutouts. I also liked the way she had very different styles for both D/W and V/M throughout their careers. She's also great at teaching skaters how to emote.

I think that every coaching team has their times on top and it's easy to judge them in retrospect. Guaranteed people will probably be saying the same thing about Gadbois after it eventually fades out of fashion in the future. Doesn't mean that at one time it wasn't certainly on top of the world.

 

[sap5]

This how I see the three Detroit ice dance coaches right now.

Igor has is the ability to create new lifts and think of ways of pushing the elements in different ways so that teams do them with confidence and conviction, and teaching his teams to be physically and technically ready for competition. He even makes them fit to do pretty dense choreography (denser than what Marina and Montreal do). However, he cannot choreograph to save his life. He has a lot of choreography but a lot of it is done with no purpose and he resuses generic arm movements and facial expressions and such.

Igor is great with elements, but what about basic skating? I can't call him a "tech" coach if he's only great in creating/pushing elements

 

[chantilly]

If Igor and Pasquale is true, I’d love to see Weaver and Poje with them

 

[clairecloutier]

To me what Igor lacks most right now are original program concepts. So many of his teams skate to music/concepts that have been done countless times before.

 

[VGThuy]

If Igor and Pasquale is true, I’d love to see Weaver and Poje with them

Agreed but he has been able to get level fours for Madison Chock so that tells you how IJS evaluates basic skating in the scoring.

 

[barbarafan]

If Igor and Pasquale is true, I’d love to see Weaver and Poje with them

I think there is a big improvement in W/P skating and packaging since switching to Morozov. I am not sure what was agreed on with them though...Although I believe his wife is no longer dancing his daughter might be and I do not know if that will make a difference.

 

[dramagrrl]

To me what Igor lacks most right now are original program concepts. So many of his teams skate to music/concepts that have been done countless times before.

Right now?? IMO, the last original thing Igor did was Silverstein & Pekarek's Tori Amos FD, and that was way back in 1999-00.

 

[Dobre]

Could you give an example of what you consider a program being centered around the guy ?

Sure.

Tanith & Ben's Elvis program.
Davis & White's Phantom.

As opposed to . . .

Smart & Diaz's Tina Turner program. Which is a program centered around the girl.

A program with choreography centered around the guy would be one that focuses on the story of the male character. (In a novel, for example, you can have both a male & female narrator, but the main protagonist is the one whose story dictates the action & plot within the story). I think programs focused on the man are rare in dance choreography, which is a major challenge for teams that have stronger male performers than female ones. I also think it can make all the difference in the world if a team can do both and show off that ability.

 

[VGThuy]

Anything by Lobacheva/Averbukh.

 

[Dobre]

I don't know if I would say, centred around the guy, but Guillaume is always highlighted a lot in P/Cs programs. And I would say that Zachary Lagha gets shown off a lot in Lajoie/Lagha's programs.

I can see saying that also about P&C. (Not sure I would say it about Lagha, beyond a great leap in their SD this year). But, in this case, I wouldn't say that would be anything different from what Hawayek & Baker have already done in the past. Rather, headed in the same direction they were already traveling. Nothing wrong with that.

I think there is a big improvement in W/P skating and packaging since switching to Morozov.

I see their current season's packaging as being very . . . Camerlengo. (And I cannot talk about Aranjuez because I am just glad it is gone).

 

[Dobre]

Well, its not confirmed that C/B are leaving yet, but if they do, I think its likely C/P will be the top team. Coomes/Buckland indicated they might continue but I don't know if they actually will. Igor still has Nazarova/Nikitin and Min/Gamelin . . . in addition to Nguyen Kolesnik.

Are Mansour & Ceska done or moving?

 

[chameleonster]

Are Mansour & Ceska done or moving?

I saw on GS someone reporting that M/C have split, although I don't think its been confirmed. Thanks for reminding me though, I forgot to mention them.

 

[vireo]

You can't say we haven't been warned:

http://the-twizzle.tumblr.com/image/173112828279

 

[starrynight]

From a new article about the Chinese Feds plans to develop ice dance:

Recently, the China Figure Skating Association will cooperate with Montreal International Skating School.

The school's top coach will help the Chinese team to select and reorganize the existing ice dance players, pick out two or three pairs of dancers and send them to Canada to receive professional training.

https://translate.google.com.au/m/translate#zh-CN/en/https://k.sina.cn/article_213815211_0cbe8fab020006n1d.html?http=fromhttp

So 2 to 3 more Chinese dance teams to Gadbois as well? Plus being tasked with making an ice dance program for China this quad.

 

[Deleted member 74551]

At this rate it’ll only be news if an ice dance team is not training in Montreal. Good luck to Marie France and Patch managing all those federations!

All I ask of Chinese ice dance is that they don’t split Wang/Liu.

 

[Anyasnake]

Official confirmation for Hawayek/Baker : http://www.usfigureskating.org/story?id=91475&type=media

 

[starrynight]

At this rate it’ll only be news if an ice dance team is not training in Montreal. Good luck to Marie France and Patch managing all those federations!

All I ask of Chinese ice dance is that they don’t split Wang/Liu.

Are they still intent on getting Han Yan to skate dance do we know?

 

[her grace]

I keep wondering which American team is going to move to Zoueva. It's an ideal time to become her #1 since her best American team right now is Lewis/Bye and the Shibs' may or may not return.

ETA: It's ironic that Hubbell/Donohue fled Detroit because of a surging Hawayek/Baker and now H/B are going to be their training mates again. I think H/D have made enough progress that H/B won't become rivals with them again, but it will be interesting to watch, nonetheless. Also, I don't see Chock/Bates moving to Montreal if the other current top 2 teams are already there.

 

[Anyasnake]

It's ironic that Hubbell/Donohue fled Detroit because of a surging Hawayek/Baker and now H/B are going to be their training mates again. I think H/D have made enough progress that H/B won't become rivals with them again

I know H/D said they did not feel like a priority in Detroit and I assumed Weaver/Poje were obviously, but yeah, perhaps a rising H/B too...
However, Ice Dance can be surprising, and H/B could be become their rivals at some point in their careers, nothing is closed. But yes if you compare Worlds 2018, H/D were incredibely superior obviously, no one was close to that second place. What will happen next is a mistery.
I want to see H/B on more mature programs, 2 adults skating together. That was has been missing for me if I look at their whole quad. That's why I can't wait for their tango

 

[mollymgr]

That's a lot of teams in Gadbois now. Everything tends to balance out eventually. In general, I would love to see more collaboration between ice dance teams and dance choreographers rather than skating choreographers. After a while, all the big names are tapped out of original choreography concepts.

 

[IloveFS]

I keep wondering which American team is going to move to Zoueva. It's an ideal time to become her #1 since her best American team right now is Lewis/Bye and the Shibs' may or may not return.

ETA: It's ironic that Hubbell/Donohue fled Detroit because of a surging Hawayek/Baker and now H/B are going to be their training mates again. I think H/D have made enough progress that H/B won't become rivals with them again, but it will be interesting to watch, nonetheless. Also, I don't see Chock/Bates moving to Montreal if the other current top 2 teams are already there.

Although not an American team, I will repeat that I think Weaver and Poje should train with Zoueva (if they are continuing)!

 

[VGThuy]

Unless Igor and Pasquale really do team up, then Weaver/Poje should try them out.

 

[IloveFS]

Does anyone think that Piper and Paul will change coaches this season?????

 

[barbarafan]

Does anyone think that Piper and Paul will change coaches this season?????

No....Carol Lane is his 2nd mother. He is tied to her hip. Sink or Swim.... I believe it was on FSU way back where someone in the know said Vanessa Crone wanted Paul to leave Carol and he went running to Mommy and Vanessa was banished to the black hole of Ice dance in Canada and Carol found him a new sparkly toy. Besides Carol is a brilliant coach/choreg. and helps dispose of competition one way or another even if they also train with her. But that is just my opinion.