Training For The Olympics Is Hard Enough. Try Doing That While Earning A Degree [updated] Nathan Chen wants to try while attending Yale University

[chapis]

If you have every had to perform a memorized piece during juries (aka music finals), you would not say that. Moreover, diagramming the chord structure of a piece, singing from memory a song in a language you don't know while being graded for pronunciation, or writing counterpoint can be every bit as hard as Real Analysis (the "real math" that math majors take that does not have anything to do with computation).

Being a music major is like being a figure skater in some ways. You put in 20 hour of practice per week in order to perform about 4 times a years in front of expert judges that expect perfection, and, like figure skating, they can tell from a mile away if you have not been practicing. You can't cram music like you can many other subjects.

Omg, that is horrible, I would prefer 100 exams of physics than put myself on that situation. My social anxiety and lack of musical talent would prevent me from passing those grades.

 

[overedge]

Nope. Music is definitely not seen as a "heavy/legit" major at MIT. I would know because one of my degrees is from MIT so you're trying to assure the wrong person.

Also, I would hardly use MIT as an example to prove your case since sometimes the mentality around these corners is Course 6/EECS or go home.

Again, agree to disagree.

I know people with MIT degrees who would disagree with you very strongly. Because it is true for you doesn't mean it is true of everyone who went there.

 

[Polaris]

I know people with MIT degrees who would disagree with you very strongly. Because it is true for you doesn't mean it is true of everyone who went there.

And I also know many classmates who would agree with me (can't think of anyone who disagrees strongly off the top of my head), so what's your point? At least I actually have first hand knowledge of MIT and am not trying to rely on anecdotal evidence to support my argument.

 

[Anita18]

*Any* major is "easy" or "hard" depending on the individual student and their own talents and preferences. Engineering might be hard if you're good at music. Music might be hard if you're good at engineering. C'est la vie.

THIS! My husband "fell into" his aerospace engineering major, but I would have gone at the prospect.

 

[overedge]

And I also know many classmates who would agree with me, so what's your point? At least I actually have first hand knowledge of MIT and am not trying to rely on anecdotal evidence to support my argument.

My MIT friends' experience is no less valid than yours, and my rather obvious point is that your opinion of how music is viewed at MIT is not the definite and universal view.

 

[mollymgr]

I don't know if this got posted but it has some more info and less drama than Phil's article.
http://olympics.nbcsports.com/2018/04/03/nathan-chen-yale/
People travel across the world for weekend MBA programs at top B-Schools. While that's a little bit of an extreme scenario, if someone is determined to do something, they will find a way.

 

[Polaris]

My MIT friends' experience is no less valid than yours, and my rather obvious point is that your opinion of how music is viewed at MIT is not the definite and universal view.

Cool story bro. Agree to disagree. I rest my case.

 

[jeffisjeff]

Apparently, How to Be a Pretentious Sh!t is also a pretty easy major!

 

[Japanfan]

He said that he really wasn't interested in engineering, but thought it was something he "should" do. He didn't have the motivation to slightly through it.

I also have to wonder if the financial rewards of skating in shows and choreographing were greater than those of becoming an engineer, even though engineers do get paid very well.

Plus, I don't think Jeff had discovered his passion and talent for choreography when he was thinking of becoming an engineer.

 

[Anita18]

^It's way easier than any engineering, science, or quant major. Music is one of the easiest majors you can take (unless you're at Julliard) if you want to cruise and protect your GPA.

If someone really wanted to cruise and protect their GPA, they wouldn't be pre-med. Even if you're a music major, you still gotta take the pre-requisite classes. And those are the ones that are hard. [shudders at the memory of organic chemistry]

Whatever people major in, past those pre-requisite classes, is up to them. Everyone has a choice, and a reason for making that choice, whether you think it's legitimate or not.

I also have to wonder if the financial rewards of skating in shows and choreographing were greater than those of becoming an engineer, even though engineers do get paid very well.

Plus, I don't think Jeff had discovered his passion and talent for choreography when he was thinking of becoming an engineer.

I think it's totally awesome that Jeff changed his mind. He's obviously very talented and in-demand for his choreography. I gave up being a cancer scientist to go into design. It sounds frivolous, but I really am much better at this than I was in molecular biology. And I'm still in the public sector helping people! (And doing it faster, now that I'm in tech.)

 

[Polaris]

Apparently, How to Be a Pretentious Sh!t is also a pretty easy major!

No shame. I love it . At least I can back my sh!t up.

 

[Polaris]

If someone really wanted to cruise and protect their GPA, they wouldn't be pre-med. Even if you're a music major, you still gotta take the pre-requisite classes. And those are the ones that are hard. [shudders at the memory of organic chemistry]

They're protecting their GPA for med school admissions. Pre-med classes are hard enough already, so people want to buffer their GPA by filling the rest of their curriculum with easier classes and majors. Many other pre-professional tracks do this (e.g. aspiring lawyers, PhDs, etc.)

 

[jeffisjeff]

At least I can back my sh!t up.

You can?

 

[Anita18]

They're protecting their GPA for med school admissions. Pre-med classes are hard enough already, so people want to buffer their GPA by filling the rest of their curriculum with easier classes and majors. Many other pre-professional tracks do this (e.g. aspiring lawyers, PhDs, etc.)

So what if they are? Everyone could make that choice too. It's not like you get extra points for purposely making it harder for yourself.

I was a biology major. It kicked my butt. I made that choice, even though I got my highest grades in my art classes. I did get a minor in studio art - couldn't double major since I discovered it too late to make the required junior-year gallery showing. Oh well. We all make our choices in life.

 

[bardtoob]

They're protecting their GPA for med school admissions. Pre-med classes are hard enough already, so people want to buffer their GPA by filling the rest of their curriculum with easier classes and majors. Many other pre-professional tracks do this (e.g. aspiring lawyers, PhDs, etc.)

Music is a not a skillless major. The skills are not marketable outside of music, but it still requires development.

It is not like some degrees, where you just need refine your ability to use verbal and written languages skills at a 4th grade level to try to influence 75% of the population.

 

[Polaris]

So what if they are? Everyone could make that choice too. It's not like you get extra points for purposely making it harder for yourself.

I was a biology major. It kicked my butt. I made that choice, even though I got my highest grades in my art classes. I did get a minor in studio art - couldn't double major since I discovered it too late to make the required junior-year gallery showing. Oh well. We all make our choices in life.

I never said it was bad to load up on easy classes. I think it's smart and practical to GPA protect, especially if you're wanting to head to a selective grad school. After all, one of the first filters for grad school admissions is GPA.

 

[Polaris]

You can?

Can you?

 

[Deleted member 53443]

If music is an easy major it's because they are already good at it and spent years and thousands of hours getting good at it. Idk if it's fair to say that makes it easier. It is, but it isn't. Because I assume we are not talking about someone starting the trombone from scratch, although I have not much of an idea how exactly the colleges in the U.S. work.

 

[bardtoob]

I never said it was bad to load up on easy classes. I think it's smart and practical to GPA protect, especially if you're wanting to head to a selective grad school.

Hmmm . . . I do not think that trick works with "selective" grad schools. One still has to reveal their abilities by taking the GRE, GMAT, PCAT, MCAT, etc.

 

[Anita18]

Music is a not a skillless major. The skills are not marketable outside of music, but it still requires development.

It is not like some degrees, where you just need refine your ability to use verbal and written languages skills at a 4th grade level to try to influence 75% of the population.

By the by, the skills you learn as a performer are totally marketable outside of music. I first learned to fake-it-til-you-make it playing recitals as a child. One of the things my colleagues (in both science and tech) know me for is my cool demeanor under pressure.

I never said it was bad to load up on easy classes. I think it's smart and practical to GPA protect, especially if you're wanting to head to a selective grad school. After all, one of the first filters for grad school admissions is GPA.

Huh, couldn't have guessed that by how argumentative you are about it.

 

[MRani]

Also, med schools look at your science GPA separately from your overall GPA now. Even if your overall GPA is high because of that tactic of taking less challenging courses to “protect” it, your weakness in the med school prereqs will be revealed by your science GPA if you didn’t do well in those courses. So that’s not a good reason to take “easy” courses at all.

 

[bardtoob]

By the by, the skills you learn as a performer are totally marketable outside of music. I first learned to fake-it-til-you-make it playing recitals as a child. One of the things my colleagues (in both science and tech) know me for is my cool demeanor under pressure.

Fair enough. That is a good skill.

 

[Polaris]

By the by, the skills you learn as a performer are totally marketable outside of music. I first learned to fake-it-til-you-make it playing recitals as a child. One of the things my colleagues (in both science and tech) know me for is my cool demeanor under pressure.

Huh, couldn't have guessed that by how argumentative you are about it.

???
I was argumentative about music being an easy major relative to others (again, this does not apply to music only schools ala Julliard/other conservatories). I never said anything about my stance on GPA-protecting until you talked about it.

 

[jeffisjeff]

Can you?

Extra !! What sh!t have I said in this thread that I could possibly need to back up? You're the one making insulting claims with no evidence, unless we (for some bizarre reason) choose to believe the things you say about yourself to be true.

 

[Polaris]

Hmmm . . . I do not think that trick works with "selective" grad schools. One still has to reveal their abilities by taking the GRE, GMAT, PCAT, MCAT, etc.

Applicants want to "fool-proof" their application metrics. Ideally you'd have both high GPA and standardized test scores, and you have more control over your GPA over a span of 4 years than a test score that's calculated in a 4-6 hour setting.

 

[Polaris]

Extra !! What sh!t have I said in this thread that I could possibly need to back up? You're the one making insulting claims with no evidence, unless we (for some bizarre reason) choose to believe the things you say about yourself to be true.

FSU doesn't verify profiles, but Quora does, so here you go. Music is Course 21.

https://www.quora.com/Out-of-curiosity-what-are-the-easiest-and-hardest-majors-at-MIT

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-easiest-major-at-MIT

https://isawyou.mit.edu/post.php?id=6367

 

[bardtoob]

Applicants want to "fool-proof" their application metrics. Ideally you'd have both high GPA and standardized test scores, and you have more control over your GPA over a span of 4 years than a test score that's calculated in a 4-6 hour setting.

I remember just being primarily concerned with getting 750 (old scale)/160 (new scale) or above on the quantitative section of the GRE.

Okay…So What IS a Good GRE Score?
I can’t say it enough: good” scores depend on your particular target school and program. But if you’re going to push me for an answer…

In very general terms, above the 75th percentile in either section is good. That’s about a 160 or higher in Quant and a 157 or higher in Verbal.

Scores at least one standard deviation from the mean are even better, 161 in Quant and 159 in Verbal.

And scores two standard deviations from the mean put you in the top 5%, 166 in Quant and 165 in Verbal, at which point your GRE score will certainly not be an impediment.

https://magoosh.com/gre/2017/gre-score-range-good-gre-score/

 

[feraina]

I find it funny that there’s a discussion about difficulty of classes at MIT, on FSU of all places. Well I took a number of music classes there (almost concentrated in music but decided to do German in the end). Performance classes were super easy to get A’s in. I always got A in concert choir and I didn’t even always go to rehearsal, and rarely attended sectionals. On the other hand composition (Harmony and Counterpoint) was hard for me, and the assignments could be quite challenging. But was it as hard as my special relativity or abstract algebra classes? No, not even close. And I think I’m much better at STEM subjects than music. My friends who entered college with a lot of music training had to work much less to get good grades in music classes.

But do med schools really consider only GPA and not what classes you took? I am involved in admissions for grad programs in both engineering and science. And believe me, we look very closely at exactly what classes you took and how you did in them. In particular we pay attention to your grades in hard math classes. If you didn’t take them or took them but did poorly, then it hardly matters how you did in the social sciences/humanities classes, or even the less quantitative science classes. And we definitely take into account what school you went to. Do med schools really not bother looking carefully at the transcripts? Or take into account how easy it was to get an A in your school?

 

[MRani]

I find it funny that there’s a discussion about difficulty of classes at MIT, on FSU of all places. Well I took a number of music classes there (almost concentrated in music but decided to do German in the end). Performance classes were super easy to get A’s in. I always got A in concert choir and I didn’t even always go to rehearsal, and rarely attended sectionals. On the other hand composition (Harmony and Counterpoint) was hard for me, and the assignments could be quite challenging. But was it as hard as my special relativity or abstract algebra classes? No, not even close. And I think I’m much better at STEM subjects than music. My friends who entered college with a lot of music training had to work much less to get good grades in music classes.

But do med schools really consider only GPA and not what classes you took? I am involved in admissions for grad programs in both engineering and science. And believe me, we look very closely at exactly what classes you took and how you did in them. In particular we pay attention to your grades in hard math classes. If you didn’t take them or took them but did poorly, then it hardly matters how you did in the social sciences/humanities classes, or even the less quantitative science classes. And we definitely take into account what school you went to. Do med schools really not bother looking carefully at the transcripts? Or take into account how easy it was to get an A in your school?

We already talked about this earlier in the thread, but the short answer is yes, they look closely at your transcript and your grades in your science courses (science GPA). No, they don’t really care which undergrad you went to, an A is an A whether you got it at an Ivy League or your state funded university.

 

[berthesghost]

Um.. surely no one who’s seen Nathan skate is suggesting he could be a successful music major cause it would come easy to him, right?