The Dance Hall 5: Ice Dance Fans 2017-2018

[Rafter]

Politicking isn't made up, it's here. Saying that V/M are victims of it against P/C when they had a +4 point jump in a week (and from their PB) is a mockery. It would have been so easy to make P/C win after the FD. As if V/M are not profiting from that politicking, especially with their reputation.
All year P/C have skated better and certainly deserved the higher scores. Not at the Olympics and they didn't.

You could also argue VM deserved higher scores all year too. You could also argue politics contributed to VMs lower scores earlier in the season.

Anyway I think part of VMs jump in scores was due to the crowd reaction in Korea. They had the crowd on their side and that might account for the slight bump in PCS.

 

[Rafter]

Of course but for more success in their goal, the ISU should have not allowed the presence of a judge (and/or president)
V/M are still victim of something

I agree that Caron should not have judged in Korea as the President of SC. I heard she annointed herself that position to the chagrin of many.

But it’s ironic that people have so many issues with this prolem but yet turn a blind eye to Didier’s continued involvement, especially considering he’s the one who almost single-handedly caused the demise of the sport in SLC and is part of the reason the judging system was changed.

 

[Twilight1]

There is no such thing as BBC Eurosport.

Brit coverage from Eurosport... but then you knew that.

 

[Twilight1]

You could also argue VM deserved higher scores all year too. You could also argue politics contributed to VMs lower scores earlier in the season.

Anyway I think part of VMs jump in scores was due to the crowd reaction in Korea. They had the crowd on their side and that might account for the slight bump in PCS.

Crowd reaction means nothing. B&K over A&P in 1998 and they didn't win bronze. D&V over C&S in 2002 and they didn't win. V&M over D&W in 2013.

Crowd appeal is only that. Home crowd advantage may play a role sometimes but most times the judges give 2 cr&ps about that. They do what they want to do... and Olympic years it is even worse.

 

[Zazy]

The tech panel was very harsh in the team event, much more than in the individual (or than the tech panel at Euros...) Across the board, not just for V/M. If the panel had been as generous as in the individual, they would have had anywhere from 1.5 to 3 points more. The judges were also a little less generous, it's as if everyone was waiting to give out the big scores at the "real event."

Ultimately tech panels always seem more generous at the Olympics, I don't think it's a conspiracy to favour one team in particular. I do, however, wish the tech calls would be more consistent, especially one week apart from the same panel! It must be so confusing for the skaters.

I agree that Caron should not have judged in Korea as the President of SC. I heard she annointed herself that position to the chagrin of many.

It's honestly such poor judgment from her. Any other Canadian judge would have given V/M big scores (hello nationalist judging, everyone does it), she wasn't helping V/M by being there, quite the opposite actually, she was giving critics something to latch onto. If your dream is to judge at the Olympics then you shouldn't be federation president. Of course, if you're federation president, you can appoint yourself and make sure you get the job... It's all so gross.

 

[Rafter]

It's only March and already the Olympic FD is approaching dead horse levels not seen in many years.

V/M are done, retired, designing jewelry or whatever it is they want to do. Can we please move on? Is there any team that might have a P/C-in-2015 type breakthrough next season? Will any new training centers emerge? What will happen to all the hideous costumes after the final SD is danced? Etc.

Given that this is the Dance Hall 2017-2017 thread, I think discussing V/M is more than ok. Feel free to start a 2018-2019 thread.

 

[Rafter]

The issue is more about the staff who didn't check it

Staff or Gabriella?

 

[Rafter]

Crowd reaction means nothing. B&K over A&P in 1998 and they didn't win bronze. D&V over C&S in 2002 and they didn't win. V&M over D&W in 2013.

Crowd appeal is only that. Home crowd advantage may play a role sometimes but most times the judges give 2 cr&ps about that. They do what they want to do... and Olympic years it is even worse.

Disagree. Skaters and commentators often refer to the crowd as the “10th judge”. It may not affect overall placement but I think it can get a skater a PCS bump.

 

[skatingguy]

By the way, what happened to the inept person who made Gabriella's dress? Did she/he give an explanation?

The issue is more about the staff who didn't check it

They did, they even sewed everything just in case.

Who didn't check it correctly.

The issue was of both parts. She/he was not specialist on figure skating costumes?

Staff or Gabriella?

Oh seriously. It happened, and they'd been using the costume all season. It was just bad luck. Maybe the costume wasn't fastened properly, or maybe Guillaume pulled at it more than he had in previous competitions - a little too much adrenaline. There are many possibilities and trying to plan anyone is pointless.

 

[Rafter]

The tech panel was very harsh in the team event, much more than in the individual (or than the tech panel at Euros...) Across the board, not just for V/M. If the panel had been as generous as in the individual, they would have had anywhere from 1.5 to 3 points more. The judges were also a little less generous, it's as if everyone was waiting to give out the big scores at the "real event."

Ultimately tech panels always seem more generous at the Olympics, I don't think it's a conspiracy to favour one team in particular. I do, however, wish the tech calls would be more consistent, especially one week apart from the same panel! It must be so confusing for the skaters.



It's honestly such poor judgment from her. Any other Canadian judge would have given V/M big scores (hello nationalist judging, everyone does it), she wasn't helping V/M by being there, quite the opposite actually, she was giving critics something to latch onto. If your dream is to judge at the Olympics then you shouldn't be federation president. Of course, if you're federation president, you can appoint yourself and make sure you get the job... It's all so gross.

Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t D/Ws and V/Ms scores improve quite a bit from TE to IE in Sochi?

 

[skatingguy]

Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t D/Ws and V/Ms scores improve quite a bit from TE to IE in Sochi?

They did.

 

[chantilly]

Oh seriously. It happened, and they'd been using the costume all season. It was just bad luck. Maybe the costume wasn't fastened properly, or maybe Guillaume pulled at it more than he had in previous competitions - a little too much adrenaline. There are many possibilities and trying to plan anyone is pointless.

Eh. Except the dress came apart in practice and in the warm up.
I think they should have possibly grabbed another costume after the practice just in case.
Also considering what happened to the Korean team.
I honestly doubt there was enough time after warm up to solve the issue.
Yes it was bad luck, but ultimately teams are responsible for their costumes and equipment and I think the team made an a huge oversight here.

 

[Twilight1]

Wasn't this costume heavier and that was the issue? Thought I read that somewhere.

Lesson learned, and I doubt this will ever happen to Gabby again.

 

[Twilight1]

Disagree. Skaters and commentators often refer to the crowd as the “10th judge”. It may not affect overall placement but I think it can get a skater a PCS bump.

Hopefully crowd reaction will get Italy a couple medals... ice dance and ladies and outside shot for pairs. What a cool feat if they do!!

 

[Dobre]

After all, Loboda/Drozd are also last season's JW silver medallists who were very close to gold, but this season they did not look good at all with their senior programs.

They defeated the reigning 4CC silver medalists at Skate Canada.

There are definitely a lot of Russian junior teams in the mix, and a LOT of young Russian novice teams sent into competitions in Europe this season. Russia has plenty of quality young dance teams. It's very likely some will be successful in seniors, provided they & their coaches ignore the advice of fans who are in such a gosh-darned hurry to split up every young Russian team that has the usual bumpy ride upon entering seniors. Skoptcova & Aleshin are well matched and finally getting to the point where they are showing some consistency. Let's leave them alone, shall we? She started out three years ago as very acrobatic a la Stepanova, but I think it's clear Skoptcova & Aleshin are more successful with a more mature look & style. Stepanova & Bukin have a youthful, high energy vibe. S&A were a hot mess when they were emulating that look. They have developed into a different team over the past couple years, IMO. The tango for next year's SD should work in their favor.

Carreira & Ponomarenko are not P&C or C&B. LOL. They are saddled with Igor's interpretation of Latin choreography. But they are also the team who's free dance from last season was essentially poached by two senior teams this year. (Because, of course, who watches the juniors?) And on top of that beautiful soft musical look, they have a very fun, high energy side to their skating. If anything, it's Chock & Bates who are following C&P with regard to their FD style this season. (And I don't really think that's what happened either).

 

[RoseRed]

Oh seriously. It happened, and they'd been using the costume all season. It was just bad luck. Maybe the costume wasn't fastened properly, or maybe Guillaume pulled at it more than he had in previous competitions - a little too much adrenaline. There are many possibilities and trying to plan anyone is pointless.

They changed the neck piece before the Olympics, I believe.

Here it is from Europeans: x
And from the Olympics: x

 

[caseyedwards]

They defeated the reigning 4CC silver medalists at Skate Canada.

There are definitely a lot of Russian junior teams in the mix, and a LOT of young Russian novice teams sent into competitions in Europe this season. Russia has plenty of quality young dance teams. It's very likely some will be successful in seniors, provided they & their coaches ignore the advice of fans who are in such a gosh-darned hurry to split up every young Russian team that has the usual bumpy ride upon entering seniors. Skoptcova & Aleshin are well matched and finally getting to the point where they are showing some consistency. Let's leave them alone, shall we? She started out three years ago as very acrobatic a la Stepanova, but I think it's clear Skoptcova & Aleshin are more successful with a more mature look & style. Stepanova & Bukin have a youthful, high energy vibe. S&A were a hot mess when they were emulating that look. They have developed into a different team over the past couple years, IMO. The tango for next year's SD should work in their favor.

Carreira & Ponomarenko are not P&C or C&B. LOL. They are saddled with Igor's interpretation of Latin choreography. But they are also the team who's free dance from last season was essentially poached by two senior teams this year. (Because, of course, who watches the juniors?) And on top of that beautiful soft musical look, they have a very fun, high energy side to their skating. If anything, it's Chock & Bates who are following C&P with regard to their FD style this season. (And I don't really think that's what happened either).

I am in no hurry to split the junior teams up! But it must be acknowledged that Russia has an only one needs talent philosophy! Any team a part of that philosophy must be broken up because it totally destroys the potential of the talented partner. The Bukin or drozd examples! But before that good ijs coaching must be implemented. You can pair two great people s/s but they don’t have ijs coaching!!

 

[EYGH]

And once again I never said that the panel was stacked for V/M. I said that if they were against, they would have done much more. I didn't want the poster put V/M as victims of the judging when they weren't, and that is it.

Again, I might take every single one of these PCS and GOEs, but in the end P/C did have lower marks and GOE on every elements barring the pattern. I already made my point of view about some of those GOEs of course.
They also did have lower PE and IN - as they should.

When I talk about politics, it's not all or nothing. Both federations make what they make, one doesn't stay out of the loop while the other works its business, that's what I'm saying.

I agree, especially since actually Canada is a heavy weight in figure skating contrary to France.

 

[EYGH]

You could also argue VM deserved higher scores all year too. You could also argue politics contributed to VMs lower scores earlier in the season.

Anyway I think part of VMs jump in scores was due to the crowd reaction in Korea. They had the crowd on their side and that might account for the slight bump in PCS.

You could argue that yes but that doesn't make it true. V/M do not deserve higher marks on principle. And if the crowd reaction played a role in their PCS it is not exactly fair is it ? Canada is a much more powerful skating nation than France and V/M have always benefited from their (deserved) notoriety and popularity vs P/C. It is an advangtage that is not related to the way they actually skate on the D day

So let's stop victimising V/M or Canada because it really doesn't make sense. V/M actually won but from the rants coming from many of their fans we could doubt it.

 

[allezfred]

Brit coverage from Eurosport... but then you knew that.

Of course, I knew that. I was just helping you to try to sound less uninformed, so you’re welcome.

BBC and British Eurosport (because that’s what it’s called ) are two completely different television channels.

Am also completely baffled as to why anyone quotes either as if they are the font of ice dance knowledge because most of the commentators (apart from Mark Hanretty - the guy with the Scottish accent on British Eurosport) are not ice dancers. And sometimes they can’t even remember what happened at a competition last week!

Just because someone says something with a British accent doesn’t make it true.

 

[MsZem]

I see the time has come again to rescue this thread from more Olympic discussion.

Hurtado/Khaliavin (as part of the Spanish Olympic team) got to meet the King and Queen of Spain! The only skater taller than King Felipe is that Belorussian guy. Maybe not even him.

Kaitlin Hawayek would like skating events to include a red carpet (yes, please!)

With Lilah Fear and Lewis Gibson heading to Worlds instead of Coomes/Buckland, will they break Tuktamysheva's 2015 record for most competitions in a season? (I have no idea if such a record actually exists).

Will Tankova and Zilberberg be able to finish ahead of anyone at Worlds?

 

[lauravvv]

Honestly I can't wait for those V/M zealots to be gone. It is really spoiling ice dance enjoyment.

Not all of Virtue/Moir fans will be gone, as at least some of them (like me) are interested also in other skaters, including ice dancers. For me personally, P/C are my second favorite ice dancing team - I even liked their last season's FD better than V/M's - so it's been difficult for me to read both (or, rather, all four) fan threads on this forum and Golden Skate and try to keep silent and not get involved into arguments too much when things were said about one team or another that I didn't/don't agree with. Of course, those comments won't disappear entirely as long as there are fans of one team and the other, but at least now I will have the freedom to just be a fan of P/C without all the stress involved with being a fan of two rival teams of such an equally high level.

You could argue that yes but that doesn't make it true. V/M do not deserve higher marks on principle. And if the crowd reaction played a role in their PCS it is not exactly fair is it ?

I hope you did not mean it the way it sounded. That is, V/M not deserving higher marks "on principle" no matter how they skated on the day just because you personally (very likely) didn't like their program(s) and/or their skating or performance style in general.

Also, the PCS rise in FD from other events was not nearly as big as some make it seem. It was only the kind of slight rise that could be expected in the Olympics individual event. Of course, them skating last and receiving the kind of audience reaction that they got could have played some role in it, but that's what happens or could happen with any big name skater in the same situation. Still, as others have already said several times, the rise in points from V/M's pevious SB (in FD) was mainly due to them finally getting level 4 on both step sequences, which I think was deserved as it was quite obvious that they skated them more perfectly and even sharper than they had done all season long (not that they were sloppy and badly skated before, of course).

 

[Twilight1]

Of course, I knew that. I was just helping you to try to sound less uninformed, so you’re welcome.

BBC and British Eurosport (because that’s what it’s called ) are two completely different television channels.

Am also completely baffled as to why anyone quotes either as if they are the font of ice dance knowledge because most of the commentators (apart from Mark Hanretty - the guy with the Scottish accent on British Eurosport) are not ice dancers. And sometimes they can’t even remember what happened at a competition last week!

Just because someone says something with a British accent doesn’t make it true.

But they hear behind the scene knowledge that frankly even you, in all your "brilliance" would not.

It was also discussed elsewhere, which you also knew.

Faking not knowing this? So uncharacteristic of you...

So sorry your favourites lost btw. It truly was too bad about her dress. Didier will help them next time I am sure...

 

[MsZem]

But they hear behind the scene knowledge that frankly even you, in all your "brilliance" would not. So sorry your favourites lost btw. It truly was too bad about her dress. Didier will help them next time I am sure...

How pathetic do you have to be to cheer on a skater losing because of an equipment failure? And don't pretend for a second that's not what you did.

 

[allezfred]

But they hear behind the scene knowledge that frankly even you, in all your "brilliance" would not. So sorry your favourites lost btw. It truly was too bad about her dress. Didier will help them next time I am sure...

They get so many basic facts wrong on a regular basis that you have to question everything they say. I am sorry if that has shattered your illusions about “BBC Eurosport” being the final word on all things ice dance.

As for thinking I am disappointed that Papadakis/Cizeron lost, again you are misinformed. I am disappointed that they didn’t skate as well as they could have because of her costume troubles. I have stated on many occasions that it was a possibility that they could lose to Virtue/Moir. But if being smug about the results of the Olympics makes you feel better than good luck to you. The rest of us are moving on.

 

[Twilight1]

Allezfred- the worst kept secret is you go into V&M's fan thread to click bait their fans.

But if pointing out an error in typing by me somehow makes you feel better... please go ahead.

We all have to do what we can to feel better about ourselves right?

Denial ain't just a river...

 

[EYGH]

I hope you did not mean it the way it sounded. That is, V/M not deserving higher marks "on principle" no matter how they skated on the day just because you personally (very likely) didn't like their program(s) and/or their skating or performance style in general.
QUOTE]

I was answering to Rafter 's "You could argue VM deserved higher scores all year too. You could also argue politics contributed to VMs lower scores earlier in the season." who was answering to Anyasnake I believe.

It is not a matter of style or preference for me. V/M deserve like any other skaters to be judged on how they skate on the day. They are not skating perfectly all the time and they had to rework their dances quite a bit through the season. They did a very good job doing it.

The above quote seems to say that as a principle V/M deserved higher scores than they got all season and implied that of course they didn't because of systematic biased judging against them. There was also the usual more or less clear accusation that of course P/C didn't deserve the marks they got and that they got them thanks to Didier all season long.

If you are a P/C fan as well shouldn't you be just as touchy towards what is outright said or more insiduously implied by V/M fans about P/C ?

 

[Twilight1]

And I am more than smug... sometimes I dislike teams simply because of this board. I am sure I am not alone in that right allezfred?

 

[Twilight1]

How pathetic do you have to be to cheer on a skater losing because of an equipment failure? And don't pretend for a second that's not what you did.

I would never wish that on anyone- I hate the behind the scene bullshyte and the denial on this board regarding their favourites not having backroom deals. Sorry not sorry

I am happy that that the tech caller marked down P&C on that one SD element because without that call they would have won.

We all love to say we believe in fairness but when push comes to shove, we play favourites and are hypocrites.

There I said it.

 

[allezfred]

Allezfred- the worst kept secret is you go into V&M's fan thread to click bait their fans.

First of all, I think you don’t understand the meaning of the phrase click bait.

Secondly, perhaps those fans in the Virtue/Moir thread should stop posting things that are untrue about rival teams or better yet stop talking about me in the first place if they don’t want me in that thread calling them out.