I, Tonya

miffy said:
Oh wow those are great marks! You’re quite right, that wasn’t portrayed accurately at all!

I didn’t mean to start a fuss over people not being named in the movie and I don’t think I explained what I meant very well. It was just that they did mention a world podium sweep of Kristi, Tonya and Nancy but then failed to mention that the same Kristi won the Olympics. And they mentioned Baiul was the reigning world champion, but not that she then beat Nancy in the Olympics (I think, not 100% sure on that!) The reason I thought an Ito mention would have been fitting is because she also landed triple axels around the same time as Tonya. But everyone is right that really it isn’t a huge deal, I still enjoyed the movie very much and would watch it again! :D
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The movie would of been 5 hours long if you included every skater Tonya ever competed against. Midori should of been mentioned (and probably was in a scene that got cut since an actress is credited for playing her). It's Tonya's story about her skating career, how she was treated by her family and the usfsa, and the media. The hard copy reporter was representative of most media (tabloid and legitimate news) at the time. Christine Brennan didn't need to be mentioned and is not an expert (except in her own mind).
 
MacMadame said:
I don't think people who follow skating realize how many kids there are out there who skate but don't really follow anything but the local scene. There are even coaches who have no idea what's going on internationally or even just on the other side of the country. Before I started skating, I had this idea that skaters sat around gossiping about the National and International stars and I was quite surprised to find out how little most of them were interested in that.
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From what I remember of my childhood rink (same era as Tonya), most of the gossip entered around what was happening at that particular rink. Whose kid was getting the best number in the ice show? Why did Kid A get to skate a solo, but not Kid B? Whose kid was getting the most attention from the coach? Whose kid was high-up enough to enter a real competition? (Hardly any at that rink.) Which skatemom was the pushiest? Also, the head coach had a daughter who skated and the moms would cluck-cluck over whether that little girl was really talented or if she just happened to be better than the other kids because she got extra ice time. I witnessed a similar phenomenon while sitting on the bleachers at Skate Detroit, watching the juvenile and intermediate ladies. Those skaters-- and their moms-- were very focused on what was happening right in front of them, not so much on which famous skaters were competing in the senior-level events.
 
The only thing I ever cared about was whether she had any culpability BEFORE the fact. After the fact, well, that is another matter because a) the deed is now done and b) it is sort of hard to turn in your own husband.
There are two possible scenarios, as I see it.

Scenario 1: She had an inkling that something was up but probably did not know all of the details or even what they had in mind to do. Let's assume she did know "something" was up but not sure exactly what they were planning. Now, what were her options. She was not likely going to talk him out of it - her scumbag husband had dollar signs in his eye - and he was doing it for himself, not her. He saw his wife as an opportunity to get rich. Realistically, her only option, at that point, would be to go to the authorities and even there options were limited because exactly what was she going to tell them: "I think my husband and his friends are going to do something bad but I don't exactly know what it is." Yeah that would go over well. Authorities can't act on something you"think" might happen when you don't even know that the something is. If they questioned him after she alerted them, he would become even more abusive toward her.

Her best option would be to outright leave him but sometimes leaving an abusive husband is not all that easy. Worse, I read where she was told by the skating authorities that if she left him, she was finished because they did not want divorced women muddying up their pretty sport. Allegedly she was told to stay with him and not even think about divorcing him. That is what I read, anyway. One way or another, she was in a bind. There was not a clear path out for her in that scenario. If she stays with him, he is about to do something which will impact her and possible destroy her if it goes wrong. If she leaves him, she is told she can't compete as a divorced woman. Either way, she loses. It is a lose:lose scenario. The idea that she is going to talk him out of whatever he is planning is a no go because he is doing it for himself - to get rich off of his wife - not for her.

Scenrio 2: The other possibility I mull over is that she knew outright and was active in the plot - a true co-conspiratory, as it were. There was the whole handwriting thing (her handwriting) on the envelope found in the dumpster. That is rather damning and hard to explain away. The other thing which is sort of damning in my opinion is what her ex-husband said in a documentary made many years later. He said he was sorry about his role in the whole thing and that he regretted it. He ALSO said that he regretted that they ever "talked her into this thing." He acknowledged that she could have made it on her own and that in doing what he did, he/they effectively ruined her. He literally said "sorry we talked her into it." Why would he say that if it were not true? What could be his motive? To hurt her? She was already totally ruined at the time he said it so even if he hated her (which does not seem to be the case) he had nothing to gain. She was totally done in at that point. What he said just could possibly be the God's honest truth. He is sorry for what he did ......AND .....he is sorry for talking her into to doing it i.e. becoming part of the plot. In that case, she was guilty as hell and absolutely DID deserve the lifetime ban. In the first scenario, outlined above, I would cut her more slack. In that scenario, she did not have good options one way or another and the life-time ban was not just. She was either trapped with no way out (did not deserve the lifetime ban) OR she was a willing participant (did deserve the lifetime ban)
 
I think it was August 1993. You can probably search this whole thread, it's repeated itself a couple times now.
 
brennele said:
Scenrio 2: The other possibility I mull over is that she knew outright and was active in the plot - a true co-conspiratory, as it were. There was the whole handwriting thing (her handwriting) on the envelope found in the dumpster. That is rather damning and hard to explain away. The other thing which is sort of damning in my opinion is what her ex-husband said in a documentary made many years later.
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I will repost something I said upthread but hid with a spoiler tag:

Although the movie for the most part shows the buildup from the unreliable points of view of Tonya Harding, there is a bit from a news report in which it is said that Gillooly said that Harding was in on the planning from the beginning, thus completely undercutting what the narrators have told us.

Could Gillooly have been lying at the time? Yes, absolutely. Is it likely? I don't think so. YMMV.
 
meggonzo said:
I think it was August 1993. You can probably search this whole thread, it's repeated itself a couple times now.
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Yes, I am curious how many topics we can repeat in this thread and how many times they will be repeated. I feel like it should be a rite of passage to read the whole thread before posting in here.
 
Gillooly was trying to cut himself a sweetheart deal with prosecutors since they had a mountain of evidence on him. It was every bit hearsay. He did the thing many liars like to do, such as adding unnecessary detail to make it seem realistic. Like him remembering what the street sign as they were driving and she supposedly agreed to the plan. Innocuous details reminiscent to me of the Casey Anthony school of lying.
 
Inessence said:
Gillooly was trying to cut himself a sweetheart deal with prosecutors since they had a mountain of evidence on him. It was every bit hearsay. He did the thing many liars like to do, such as adding unnecessary detail to make it seem realistic. Like him remembering what the street sign as they were driving and she supposedly agreed to the plan. Innocuous details reminiscent to me of the Casey Anthony school of lying.
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I will quote prosecutor Norm Frink once again on Tonya's plea deal; she had two conditions: that she not go to jail, and that she wouldn't have to admit prior knowledge of the attack. Once again, I ask, if she was completely innocent and knew nothing, WHY would she insist on that as part of her plea agreement? And don't hand me the usual BS about her not being able to afford a good lawyer, ad nauseum. She SPECIFICALLY wanted to make sure she wouldn't have to own up to knowing about the attack before it was implemented. To me that says she was in on it at least to some degree before it happened.
 
They had her with her hand caught in the cookie jar on Hindering the Prosecution after Nationals. Photos, lying to the FBI about Jeff’s involvement, etc., that it made no sense for her to take it to trial. Tonya had a very good defense atty, so yes a trial would have cost her quite a mint more than her fines. While I believe Jeff through Tonya under a bus to save himself via a plea deal, and to further humiliate her in the eye of the public (e.g. releasing sex tape right before Olys), I’m still dubious about the extent of her prior involvement to a physical attack on Nancy. She likely never would have accepted a plea deal admitting prior knowledge, they would have had to take it to trial. The prosecutor chickened out because they didn't have enough evidence.
 
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Erin said:
Yes, I am curious how many topics we can repeat in this thread and how many times they will be repeated. I feel like it should be a rite of passage to read the whole thread before posting in here.
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Maybe we could ask @Server Guy (nicely) to make it impossible to enter a thread for the first time anywhere except at the original post. :saint:
 
I guess she was told to cut the part about calling Tonya an American hero after the fallout from the Golden Globes.
 
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