Only an act of quad can stop Nathan Chen and the ridiculousness- Toronto Star Article

[judgejudy27]

This is an interesting article. Just curious what are some of the opinions all of you have of it:

American teenager pulled off an unprecedented six in his free skate but his brilliance is largely one-dimensional — and it’s not figure skating. It’s gonzo, a mutation of the sport, and the ISU needs to put a limit on them before the competition turns into a jump-off, Rosie DiManno writes.

ADMIN: DO NOT COPY AND PASTE ENTIRE ARTICLES

 

[Wyliefan]

I think that, as usual, she's full of crap.

 

[judgejudy27]

https://www.thestar.com/sports/olym...-stop-nathan-chen-and-the-ridiculousness.html

 

[emason]

I agree to some extent. Nathan’s program was a boring jump-fest and I was relieved when it was over.

 

[skatingguy]

I think that, as usual, she's full of crap.

People said the same thing in the '70's about triples.

 

[judgejudy27]

Regardless what one thinks, and I personally sit somewhere in the middle for now, I havent really formed a concrete stance one direction or the other as of yet, there is a certain irony to it all. It was first an American who created controversy in the sport by winning Olympic Gold without a quad, and now it is a different American man creating controversy by doing too many quads, LOL!

 

[liv]

Nathan landed his quads, great for him, but they were pretty much awkwardly landed... i wasn't really entertained by what he did because it looked so messy. That said, though, i'm glad for him that he was able to show off what he could do and leave the Olympics on a high note.

 

[lala]

oh, Nathan is the new enemy

 

[sk9tingfan]

Rosie DiManno is a highly jingoistic reporter and has been for a very long time. She has inappropriately and inaccurately gone after skaters from the United States in the past which made me take issue with her directly. She literally used totally inappropriate language in her response which I forwarded to her editor with a complaint.

 

[olympic]

I read the article .

He lacks.

A freak of figure skating nature, Chen can jump over the moon. But his brilliance is largely one-dimensional.

And that’s not figure skating. It’s gonzo, a mutation of the sport. Because placing half-a-dozen quads into a four-minute, 40-second program means little time or space left over for all the other elements that imbue figure skating with its artistic and athletic essence.

Is she referring to other technical elements, such as spins and FW? Because Nathan is able to do spins and footwork in a six-quad program and does them quite well.

The International Skating Union must address this, must put a limit on long skate quads before competition turns into a jump-off.

I am curious about her opinion in 2010.

I’ll say what Chan, 10-time Canadian champion and thrice a world gold medallist, was too polite to state: Chen’s skate was ugly, stunt-ish.

That was just petty and unprofessional. He crawled up the standings under the current rules and shouldn't be pissed on by some journalist that probably can't stand up in a pair of skates.

She reverts to Chan quickly and all his accomplishments. She sounds like a bitter woman whose fave never won an individual OGM.

ETA #1 - I was so pissed, I wrote her a letter -

Dear Ms. Dimanno,

i read your article published on February 17, 2018.

Nathan Chen pulled himself up to 5th and showed fire and determination, overcoming the demons of the Short Program. Why don't we applaud him for that Herculean effort, instead of pissing all over him by calling his skating 'ugly' (your words). That was completely unprofessional.

You also state in your article that his skating is one dimensional. He is one of the world's better spinners and his footwork in the Short Program this year has been masterful. Tatiana Tarasova is a former Russian coach and current commentator on Russian TV: She doesn't mince words for skates of poor quality. She has said that Nathan knows how to listen to music.

I personally just think you have an ax to grind because your favorite never won an Olympic Gold Medal.

Sincerely,

Matt Nies

ETA #2 - I wonder if she has an opinion about Chan whining about the ice at 2016 Worlds that Javi Fernandez triumphed on ...

 

[livetoskate]

What an obnoxious, biased article. I don't think Nathan's "one dimensional" at all. Way to go to be negative about a skater who triumphed in the free skate.

 

[Twilight1]

Chan got out-Chen'ed. Plain and simple. Her bitter Betty attitude has been annoying for years.

I believe that Quads are incredible and if someone can land different types, more power to them. Chen was a powerhouse and it was incredible to watch.

 

[casken]

I basically agree, but if CAN was next to his name she never would have written this article so...

 

[olympic]

I basically agree, but if CAN was next to his name she never would have written this article so...

See my letter to her. I was really pissed off.

 

[mtnskater]

Chen is only 18 and has made huge strides in the PCS part of his skating in less than a year since his debut at Worlds. I fully expect him to be a different skater by 2022. I’m certainly a skating fan that wants to see the full package and I think Chen can do it and produce the six quads. He’s well on his way. Given the great men’s free skate event last night with a lot fewer falls than Sochi, I don’t see why the ISU would now decide to place limits on quads.

By the way, I’m a huge Patrick Chan fan, probably one of my all time favorite make skaters.

 

[Seerek]

I suspect Rosie's dislike of Nathan's music selection for the free skate is influencing her overall judgement, which has often been the case in her articles in the past of programs where she dislikes the music.

That being said, they could enforce more stricter grades of Execution if the jump is heavily stalked or if there is complete loss of speed in the landing edge.

 

[VGThuy]

I think DiManno has the stupidest looking photo ever. Also, how did her assault and battery charges go?

 

[allezfred]

To be fair, Rosie DiManno is just the most extreme example of how hypernationalistic many sports columnists, particularly in North America, are. This refusal to accept that an athlete or team from another country might just be better to the athlete or team from your country is pretty grotesque.

 

[Vash01]

To some extent I agree with her. A figure skating champion should not be determined by only the number of quads attempted by the skaters. Nathan's SP had a good balance and good presentation (one could see that despite the mistakes). The LP didn't have much other than the quads. I was surprised by how high his PCS were, when compared with someone like
Misha Ge, who skated after Nathan, didn't have any quads and it hurt his TES, as it should, but it was beautiful skating. I want to see a balance between the jumps and other skills, like Hanyu's. I am not against athleticism. I have always encouraged the technical difficulty but I still want the next generation of figure skaters to emulate someone like Hanyu rather than Chen. Nathan has ballet training and he could become a really good artist if he strives for that.

I would like the ISU to put a 4-quad limit for the LP. It will force the skaters to develop other aspects of FS.

 

[cmk]

To be fair, Rosie DiManno is just the most extreme example of how hypernationalistic many sports columnists, particularly in North America, are. This refusal to accept that an athlete or team from another country might just be better to the athlete or team from your country is pretty grotesque.

The American version of that type of reporter would be Christine Brennan.

 

[AxelAnnie]

I agree to some extent. Nathan’s program was a boring jump-fest and I was relieved when it was over.

I never think that of Nathan!s programs. Will he grow artistically...sure
He is a kid
For my boring jump fests I generally watch Zagitova.

 

[AxelAnnie]

oh, Nathan is the new enemy

That must mean he is really, really good.

 

[Karen-W]

I don't want the ISU to put a limit on the number of quads anyone can do in a program but I do think the loss of points you get for not completing a quad cleanly needs to be higher than it is. I'm no math geek but I think rather than losing an absolute value like 1 point for every fall, perhaps the loss of points should be proportional to the value of the jump. Ie - you fall on a jump, the BV is halved. That would prevent a lot of skaters from putting elements in their programs that aren't competition ready. I also think, if you really want to encourage skaters to develop better non-jumping elements then you need to raise the BV of those elements. And, the ISU needs to address the issue of a balanced program, which is a far bigger issue, IMO. I think perhaps an automatic deduction for having more than 60% of your jumping passes in either half of the program would help.

Last night was an exciting night of skating and it's unfortunate that DiManno is so put out by Chan's disappointing placement that she can't recognize Nathan's great achievement.

 

[Tavi]

I am really happy for Nathan that he was able to come back so beautifully in the FS after a devastating short. He’s an amazingly talented kid, and until yesterdsy, he was pretty clearly feeling the weight of expectations.

That said, I went back and watched his and Vincent’s free skates, and while I don’t agree with the writer that Nathan is a one trick pony, what I did notice is that the programs for both guys devoted huge amounts of time to setting up for quads.

That’s not a criticism of either skater - they /their programs simply did what the jumps demand. Nathan used slightly more complex steps in his setups than Vincent did, but the net impression was the same for me: nearly half of each program was devoted to quad setups.

Both of these guys did attempt to do other things - Nathan’s spins and some of his footwork were really quite good, and Vincent had several really nice spread eagles. But for someone like me, who really values performance, the overall structure and content of the programs was unsatisfying.

Next year, the men’s FS loses 30 seconds and one jumping pass. Presumably, the guys who can do lots of quads will cut a triple, not a quad, from their programs. So while I don’t agree with this author’s criticism of Nathan, I do worry that shorter programs with the same number of quads will result in programs with a greater percentage of time needed for quad setups. I think Nathan is fully capable of giving a real performance, but with a shorter program, will he even have time to do much more than jump? I guess we’ll see next season.

 

[judgejudy27]

The other thing is Nathan is getting lower PCS than the very top ones in that. By quite a bit actually at times. His PCS in the LP for instance were almost 10 points below Hanyu and Fernandez. So if he is able to acquire enough points technically to overcome that then so be it, I don't see how you can say that is unfair. You cant really give him any lower PCS unless you argue a much wider spread on all skaters PCS which arguably should be anyway, but the general tread has been veering away from that atleast a couple years before anyone heard of Chen. Since if some of the early skaters I saw who literally were slow as molasses, had no musical interpretation and seemed to be skating to elevator music, no choreography, and were stumbling out of the jumps they were trying, get low to mid 7s in PCS you cant give someone like Nathan any lower than what he gets.

 

[barbarafan]

Rosie DiManno is a highly jingoistic reporter and has been for a very long time. She has inappropriately and inaccurately gone after skaters from the United States in the past which made me take issue with her directly. She literally used totally inappropriate language in her response which I forwarded to her editor with a complaint.

You are not special...This insulting ignoramus basically called Kaitlyn Osmond a slut. Her editor must be a complete jerk as she is still spreading her bullshit. Lots of people complained about the Kaitlyn nonsense.

 

[merrywidow]

FYI: Nathan & Vincent finished 1 & 2 in technical scores. Nathan won the long program & Vincent was the youngest in the top 10. Pretty good stats, IMO.

 

[becca]

Chan is a beautiful skater but I wouldn't call the days he was on top of the sport the glory days. He had one AMAZING world win but a lot of his wins were plagued with falls. I am mainly concerned injury.
There does need be more penalties for falling BUT I personally think not having a quad is an issue considering so many do them I would love to see PCS pegged to TES with huge docks for errors.....

So your not getting rewarded for going to easy.

 

[DreamSkates]

I would like the ISU to put a 4-quad limit for the LP. It will force the skaters to develop other aspects of FS.

Then let's also limit how fast skiers, bobsledders, etc. can go to win medals. And how about limiting snowboarding tricks? This is a sport, so the technical prowess should be the priority.
I do appreciate artistry but often, that is not nearly as technical as jumps. Maybe award more points to spins and footwork, but then, should those be limited?

 

[DreamSkates]

I enjoyed this interview with Nathan
http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/nathan-chen-historic-skate-i-had-nothing-lose
Athletes, to be at the top, have to be gutsy and take calculated risks.