Only an act of quad can stop Nathan Chen and the ridiculousness- Toronto Star Article

[Vash01]

Oh, I don't doubt Zagitova's endurance. But in terms of creating a memorable program, there is nothing interesting about the execution.

It is a personal preference, but I was bored with two minutes of footwork, two spins, then seven jump passes, and a spin to finish.

Like men needed multiple quads to make an impression now, perhaps ladies other than those from Russia entering the junior and senior ranks, will need to consider this tactic as well.

I found Zagitova's program quite interesting. There is no reason to ignore footwork, spins, MIF, etc. if they help express the music. However, I prefer the composition of Medvedeva's Anna Karenina LP. The jumps are more spread out rather than compressed into the last two minutes.

 

[Vash01]

Then let's also limit how fast skiers, bobsledders, etc. can go to win medals. And how about limiting snowboarding tricks? This is a sport, so the technical prowess should be the priority.
I do appreciate artistry but often, that is not nearly as technical as jumps. Maybe award more points to spins and footwork, but then, should those be limited?

These two sports are very different, so your example is not a valid one. Skiing is a one dimensional sport where speed is the main factor. Skating has multiple dimensions, including some subjectivity. Skating is not a jumping contest, so all factors need to be taken into account.

 

[Judy]

Well I don’t consider Rosie a figure skating fan but she usually rubs readers the wrong way which is her style. Don’t blame Chan for her comments.

I thought Nathan did an incredible comeback last night!

 

[Meoima]

Since the majority of the guys you mention only have 4t and 4s, I don't know how to compare them. Chen's 3A and 4 sal are not strong and his 4t is ok but not great. But his 4lutz is some of the best in business and the guys you mention don't have a 4lutz (unless you count practice). And Chen usually repeats the quads he is stronger in.

Nathan has the weird landings that might be harmful for his hips, especially with the Flip and Lutz.

 

[Meoima]

These two sports are very different, so your example is not a valid one. Skiing is a one dimensional sport where speed is the main factor. Skating has multiple dimensions, including some subjectivity. Skating is not a jumping contest, so all factors need to be taken into account.

Saw Nathan live and it was underwhelming for me even when he did well. IMO his knee is stiff and his edge is not fluid. I would say even Boyang is better in SS than Nathan at the moment.

 

[suki]

Saw Nathan live and it was underwhelming for me even when he did well. IMO his knee is stiff and his edge is not fluid. I would say even Boyang is better in SS than Nathan at the moment.

Let's not forget that Nathan is only 18 years old, 3 seasons into his senior-level career (including the truncated 2015-2016 season when he was injured at Nationals and skipped Worlds). Go back and look at the videos of early Javi, Daisuke, Yagudin, Kulicka, even Stojko who was known as "only a jumper." As they aged their skating became more fluid and their presentation more nuanced and timed.

 

[Lara111]

This is an interesting article. Just curious what are some of the opinions all of you have of it:

American teenager pulled off an unprecedented six in his free skate but his brilliance is largely one-dimensional — and it’s not figure skating. It’s gonzo, a mutation of the sport, and the ISU needs to put a limit on them before the competition turns into a jump-off, Rosie DiManno writes.

ADMIN: DO NOT COPY AND PASTE ENTIRE ARTICLES

I agree. I said after this performance lets split men's skating into two different sports - jumps on ice and figure skating.

 

[jlai]

Nathan has very good ss for his age. I remember 2015-6 jgp when the commentator said how good his ss was.
I don't know it is good enough to be an OGM. But for an upcomer who is climbing ranks, he is good.
Uno is great but not everyone is Uno.
Jin is an odd case. He was a jumper but he started competing smart beginning the 2017 season and did all the right things to be considered a contender, including incorporating good choreography into his 2017 LP. Although I will say, his 2018 LP is as jump based as Nathan's.

 

[becca]

I agree. I said after this performance lets split men's skating into two different sports - jumps on ice and figure skating.

Why? To me the best skaters do both. Hanyu is amazing cuz he does both. Chen does both in the short. To me the best ones marry both.

 

[VGThuy]

I thought Jin may have worked on his SS and flow where he might have overtaken Chen there this season but in his LP it seemed he regressed a bit as he was much slower than he was in the SP and two-footing skating around with the best of them. I think nerves affected Jin's overall performance in the LP.

 

[Meoima]

Let's not forget that Nathan is only 18 years old, 3 seasons into his senior-level career (including the truncated 2015-2016 season when he was injured at Nationals and skipped Worlds). Go back and look at the videos of early Javi, Daisuke, Yagudin, Kulicka, even Stojko who was known as "only a jumper." As they aged their skating became more fluid and their presentation more nuanced and timed.

So? Does that mean because he has potential to be a great skater, they should reward him with huge PCS for SS, TR, CH, IN, CO while what he put on the ice do not match with that?

Because Yagudin had the potential of a great skater, at age 15 judges have to give him 6.0 already?

Look, this is not Nathan's fault but mostly the way judges are judging. They tie TES with PCS that's why it is this way. But because he is talented and has the potential it does not mean people have to give him all the PCS. Nathan got like... 95 at Nationals right? Do people really believe just because skaters do a zillion of quads they deserve 9.5 and 10 for their PCS?

People attack Eteri girls to get huge PCS despite junior-ish skating, but Nathan should not get the criticism? At least Eteri girls have packed transitions while Nathan does not.

 

[jlai]

I thought Jin may have worked on his SS and flow where he might have overtaken Chen there this season but in his LP it seemed he regressed a bit as he was much slower than he was in the SP and two-footing skating around with the best of them. I think nerves affected Jin's overall performance in the LP.

Whereas Chen had a v clean look in many of his elements and even the quad lutz had more knee bend. And wasn't standing on two foot waiting to jump. But then Chen had nothing to lose while Jin probably had quite a bit of nerves

I suspect these two will be trading places in future competitions if they both continue. Sometimes one will skate better and sometimes the other. But unless one of them suddenly separates himself from the pack, I don't think it will always be Chen or Jin who should have better pcs. They are not far enough apart for that.

 

[jlai]

So? Does that mean because he has potential to be a great skater, they should reward him with huge PCS for SS, TR, CH, IN, CO while what he put on the ice do not match with that?

Because Yagudin had the potential of a great skater, at age 15 judges have to give him 6.0 already?

Look, this is not Nathan's fault but mostly the way judges are judging. They tie TES with PCS that's why it is this way. But because he is talented and has the potential it does not mean people have to give him all the PCS. Nathan got like... 95 at Nationals right? Do people really believe just because skaters do a zillion of quads they deserve 9.5 and 10 for their PCS?

People attack Eteri girls to get huge PCS despite junior-ish skating, but Nathan should not get the criticism? At least Eteri girls have packed transitions while Nathan does not.

What is your problem? PCS inflation isn't tied to just Nathan. That has been going on for some time, starting with Kovtun getting 78-80 pcs. So once the middle of the pack skaters get close to 80, then the judges have no choice but inflate everyone else.

They need to fix the system. But they are not just inflating Chen's scores.

And I don't ever take Nathan's scores in nationals (or anyone's pcs at nationals) seriously. Serioiusly.

 

[VGThuy]

Everybody's PCS is about 5-10 points higher than they should be if we're being honest.

 

[jlai]

Everybody's PCS is about 5-10 points higher than they should be if we're being honest.

Except Chan. The skaters being hosed are the ones who truly deserve a 90 or above, and there are only a handful of them.

 

[Meoima]

What is your problem? PCS inflation isn't tied to just Nathan. That has been going on for some time, starting with Kovtun getting 78-80 pcs. So once the middle of the pack skaters get close to 80, then the judges have no choice but inflate everyone else.

They need to fix the system. But they are not just inflating Chen's scores.

And I don't ever take Nathan's scores in nationals (or anyone's pcs at nationals) seriously. Serioiusly.

What is your problem actually? I clearly stated this is not Nathan's fault right? I blame it on the judges.

And please Nathan does have more 2-foot skating than most top guys: https://youtu.be/3qlpTMObg9A

His PCS is really too high. But I do not blame him. Judges do not score fairly and it's their fault.

 

[jlai]

What is your problem actually? I clearly stated this is not Nathan's fault right? I blame it on the judges.

And please Nathan does have more 2-foot skating than most top guys: https://youtu.be/3qlpTMObg9A

His PCS is really too high. But I do not blame him. Judges do not score fairly and it's their fault.

Everyone's are too high except for a few. You merely chose to pick him as an example. Samohin skated before him and got 81, and BYCHENKO Alexei got 83.8 in pcs. Zhou got a near 80 for even worse ss and presentation. Unless you think that only Chen was overscored.

The judges were throwing pcs point left and right yesterday to EVERYONE, except poor Chan (and a handful others) who shouldn't be 4 or 7 or 9 points above the Isrseli kids and Chen .
Only 6 skaters got less than 80 last night.
It's a travesty but not particular to Chen. Just look at the pcs for everyone.

 

[Meoima]

Everyone's are too high except for a few. You merely chose to pick him as an example. Samohin skated before him and got 81, and BYCHENKO Alexei got 83.8 in pcs. Zhou got a near 80 for even worse ss and presentation. Unless you think that only Chen was overscored.

The judges were throwing pcs point left and right yesterday to EVERYONE, except poor Chan (and a handful others) who shouldn't be 4 or 7 or 9 points above the Isrseli kids and Chen .
Only 6 skaters got less than 80 last night.
It's a travesty but not particular to Chen. Just look at the pcs for everyone.

Are you sure Vincent is worse in SS and presentation than Nathan? I for once think Vincent at this point might be on pair with Nathan, just weaker jumps.

And what's your problem actually? I was saying I saw him live and his skating left a lot to be desired. His projection is not that powerful towards the audience. I was sitting in the first row and it was underwhelming. Simply stating some notes he could improve since he's young and he has time for it.

And my point is PCS even before Olympics (not at Nationals) was already too high throughout the season IMO.

This thread is about Nathan and his skating right, then am I allowed to pick up on other skaters as well?

 

[ChiquitaBanana]

Rosie DiManno? I won’t give her the pleasure of me clickng on the link to read her article.

Americans, don’t get insulted by her. She just dislikes figure skating and figure skaters. She even writes horror on her own Canadian skaters. Don’t waste time with her.

 

[jlai]

Are you sure Vincent is worse in SS and presentation than Nathan? I for once think Vincent at this point might be on pair with Nathan, just weaker jumps.

And what's your problem actually? I was saying I saw him live and his skating left a lot to be desired. His projection is not that powerful towards the audience. I was sitting in the first row and it was underwhelming. Simply stating some notes he could improve since he's young and he has time for it.

And my point is PCS even before Olympics (not at Nationals) was already too high throughout the season IMO.

This thread is about Nathan and his skating right, then am I allowed to pick up on other skaters as well?

I thought the thread was about the emphasis on quads. Nathan is just one example among many.
And you said "PCS even Olympics" for whom? everyone or just Nathan? So only 6 skaters got below 80. So would you knock Nathan below 80 and keep everyone the same?

PCS has been higher and higher for the last few seasons, before Nathan even started senior.

eta: Just to add: I checked who got below 80 in pcs yesterday. I think it's ridiculous that Yan Han is basically tied with Vincent Zhou on pcs. And while I am at it, it's ridiculous that Uno's pcs is so much higher than Yan Han simply because Uno rotates and lands his jumps while Yan Han doesn't. I thought they both have amazing glides and ok programs and should have pcs not that far apart.
Basically the guys below 75 are the ones with disastrous skates.

 

[berthesghost]

I was wondering how long it would take for the cry baby canadians to start some “wewuzrobbed” whining. Canadians complaining about skating has become an oly tradition!

 

[Cachoo]

Nathan's a teen..give him a chance to develop and skate as a man....six quads with mature skating....bad or good? If bad, then let Nathan continue to grow and just do triples....would that be okay with this dingbat?

 

[Meoima]

I thought the thread was about the emphasis on quads. Nathan is just one example among many.
And you said "PCS even Olympics" for whom? everyone or just Nathan? So only 6 skaters got below 80. So would you knock Nathan below 80 and keep everyone the same?

PCS has been higher and higher for the last few seasons, before Nathan even started senior.

eta: Just to add: I checked who got below 80 in pcs yesterday. I think it's ridiculous that Yan Han is basically tied with Vincent Zhou on pcs. And while I am at it, it's ridiculous that Uno's pcs is so much higher than Yan Han simply because Uno rotates and lands his jumps while Yan Han doesn't. I thought they both have amazing glides and ok programs and should have pcs not that far apart.
Basically the guys below 75 are the ones with disastrous skates.

PCS before Olympic were already inflated. The trend is as long as you land many quads, you PCS get higher even though your PCS do not match that, especially TR and SS. Nathan has the most number of quads, he is the one who get most benefits from this. Analyzing is programs TR and construction, he is weaker than other top men. But he is getting almost near 90 PCS which does not bode well. I'd say Misha Ge deserve at least 10 points in PCS higher than Nathan, so?
People said Boyang would be the disaster but at this point Boyang actually has improved and has more skating than Nathan.

 

[overedge]

It was first an American who created controversy in the sport by winning Olympic Gold without a quad

If you think this was the first controversy in the sport around quads, you weren't paying attention.

Not that Rosie DiMeaningless would ever do this, because Elvis Stojko is Canadian, but you could replace "Nathan Chen" with "Elvis Stojko" in that article and it would be just like a lot of what was written about Elvis and "lack of artistry" back in the day.

 

[overedge]

I was wondering how long it would take for the cry baby canadians to start some “wewuzrobbed” whining. Canadians complaining about skating has become an oly tradition!

Please, don't insult Canadians by saying that Rosie is representative of our opinions.

 

[jlai]

PCS before Olympic were already inflated. The trend is as long as you land many quads, you PCS get higher even though your PCS do not match that, especially TR and SS. Nathan has the most number of quads, he is the one who get most benefits from this. Analyzing is programs TR and construction, he is weaker than other top men. But he is getting almost near 90 PCS which does not bode well. I'd say Misha Ge deserve at least 10 points in PCS higher than Nathan, so?

I just did a calculation and the average pcs score is 83.9. The median is 84.07. Unless you think the average skater did 3 quads and Chen's 3 extra quads gave him 3 extra points...

Even if you give him the median pcs score or even bottom 25% pcs (which is 80 according to Excel), he still would have won the free.

Ge most certainly shouldn't get 10 points higher. Neither should rippon unless only above waist body movement count as artistry.

I think you can't stand chen and that is fine. But the skaters whom you think are better are not great and may be even average to other fans like me imho.

eta: giving statistics based on excel

 

[DimaToe]

Well, at least she didn’t call Nathan a prostutite... So progress I guess?

 

[Aerobicidal]

If they needed a terrible punny headline they could have at least gone a step further and made it "Only an act of quad Chen stop Nathan".

Also, Nathan Chen and the Ridiculousness would be a good name for a glamrock band. Vera Wang could make them complementary mostly-black, minimalist outfits.

 

[Tavi]

My biggest impression of the judging was that it was either nonsensical or maddeningly inconsistent for all but a few guys. For example, Vincent’s SP PCS was 36.03 (SS 7.39). It rose to 79.92 (SS 8.04) in the FS. That’s basically an average increase of .80 (or 11%) for each component. I guess some presentation marks - eg, transitions, performance - can vary by program or by day. But SS? Did they improve that much overnight? Or was that the power of 5 quads? Which is “correct”?

This is not meant to criticize Vincent, but the judges.

 

[dramagrrl]

Rosie DiManno? I won’t give her the pleasure of me clickng on the link to read her article.

Americans, don’t get insulted by her. She just dislikes figure skating and figure skaters. She even writes horror on her own Canadian skaters. Don’t waste time with her.

As I mentioned in my earlier post, Rosie doesn’t dislike skating or skaters. I am not saying this to excuse her AT ALL, but more to point out what a strange and twisted view she has on most things she personally chooses to cover. She has personally handpicked skating to be one of the few things she covers consistently because, if you asked her, she would probably consider herself a fan and very knowledgeable about the sport after writing about it for around thirty years (possibly more, but that would have been before my time).