Only an act of quad can stop Nathan Chen and the ridiculousness- Toronto Star Article

[VGThuy]

As much as I want Nathan and Vincent to truly develop as more complete skaters by 2022 (if they decide to continue) because I can see them even being better skaters (Nathan is already awesome in a gala setting and he's growing), I don't blame anyone for going to the objective base value. IF you rotate and land on one foot, the judges can't take anything away from the base value. That's much more of a guarantee than PCS. However, I'm glad PCS still proved to be important at this competition.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

I think that, as usual, she's full of crap.

Another Rosie DiManno epic, I take it?

Thanks for the heads - up (and the warning). I definitely won't be opening up her click bait nonsense.

 

[Minou]

Wasn't there there a "Zayak" rule about repeating the same jump that puts a (high) limit on quads? Also, is there a rule in pairs that limits the program to 2 throws, a precedent?

That said, these folks are pushing the limits with their bodies and modern medicine.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Nathan landed his quads, great for him, but they were pretty much awkwardly landed... i wasn't really entertained by what he did because it looked so messy. That said, though, i'm glad for him that he was able to show off what he could do and leave the Olympics on a high note.

In person at the World Championships in Helsinki, the quality of Chen's quad jumps versus Hanyu, Fernandez, Chan, Uno, and Kolyada was not quite on the same level. Also, his short program covered deficiencies such as the long jump preparation set - ups which were really obvious in the free skate. Essentially, his free skate was three minutes of jumps, a minute of footwork, and three spins to finish.

Glad to see Nathan and his team are working more on the component scores this season, though.

 

[Tavi]

As much as I want Nathan and Vincent to truly develop as more complete skaters by 2022 (if they decide to continue) because I can see them even being better skaters (Nathan is already awesome in a gala setting and he's growing), I don't blame anyone for going to the objective base value. IF you rotate and land on one foot, the judges can't take anything away from the base value. That's much more of a guarantee than PCS. However, I'm glad PCS still proved to be important at this competition.

I certainly don’t blame them (or Alina Z) for doing whatever it takes to achieve the highest possible technical score under the current rules, as the surest way to win. But because I don’t enjoy programs that emphasize tech content at the expense of beautiful skating, I personally would like to see a system that better balances how points can be earned, whether that’s by rewarding beautiful execution of all jumps more highly, penalizing falls, or increasing the factoring for PCS. And of course, it would help if the rules were applied more objectively and evenly. But that, I guess, is another conversation.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

I certainly don’t blame them (or Alina Z) for doing whatever it takes to achieve the highest possible technical score under the current rules, as the surest way to win. But because I don’t enjoy programs that emphasize tech content at the expense of beautiful skating, I personally would like to see a system that better balances how points can be earned, whether that’s by rewarding beautiful execution of all jumps more highly, penalizing falls, or increasing the factoring for PCS. And of course, it would help if the rules were applied more objectively and evenly. But that, I guess, is another conversation.

Agreed.

Team Eteri are certainly constructing programs designed to win. Which essentially means, using the bonus for jumps after the two minute mark.

However, I will be intrigued in the years to come when the great programs are discussed, will any of their work feature in the equation?

It's a shame that Japanese skaters like Miyahara, Higuchi, Mihara and Sakamoto go to so much trouble, if they're not being equally rewarded for the quality of their work.

 

[AxelAnnie]

Should be a kind of a no brainer to fix. Tele away the bonus in the short For sure. And then maybe put the bonus in the long down to 3% or something. Or give the bonus only to the last jump. Or an element of the skaters choosing.

 

[Spun Silver]

I don't even understand Di Manno's reasoning. Nathan is doing it all wrong while Vincent "acquitted himself beautifully"? Nathan is a better all around skater at this point than Vincent is and they have essentially the same quad strategy.

Anyway, I guess I'm the odd one out,but I am in agreement with her on the point that quads need to be limited both to encourage the full development of skaters, esp with the shortening of programs, and also to safeguard their bodies. I think a limit of four in the FS would be *plenty*. I don't want to move toward a day when all men's jumps are quads, which was a speculation of either Raf or Nathan recently. Let's see if sports medicine is able to show us how skaters can cope with four-quad programs without lifelong injuries first.

 

[becca]

Agreed.

Team Eteri are certainly constructing programs designed to win. Which essentially means, using the bonus for jumps after the two minute mark.

However, I will be intrigued in the years to come when the great programs are discussed, will any of their work feature in the equation?

It's a shame that Japanese skaters like Miyahara, Higuchi, Mihara and Sakamoto go to so much trouble, if they're not being equally rewarded for the quality of their work.

The problem with the criticisms of Alina is if more skaters Could do it they would.
This is what Jeff Buttle had to say:

"Is it an unbalanced program? Kinda. Does she camaflouge the first two minutes well? Not particularly like Carolina skates. Would I do it if I had the endurance? Your dang right I would. I would be hyperventilating while crying trying to do those jumps in the second half."

I wouldn't assume other skaters aren't doing it out of principle

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

The problem with the criticisms of Alina is if more skaters Could do it they would.
This is what Jeff Buttle had to say:

"Is it an unbalanced program? Kinda. Does she camaflouge the first two minutes well? Not particularly like Carolina skates. Would I do it if I had the endurance? Your dang right I would. I would be hyperventilating while crying trying to do those jumps in the second half."

I wouldn't assume other skaters aren't doing it out of principle

Oh, I don't doubt Zagitova's endurance. But in terms of creating a memorable program, there is nothing interesting about the execution.

It is a personal preference, but I was bored with two minutes of footwork, two spins, then seven jump passes, and a spin to finish.

Like men needed multiple quads to make an impression now, perhaps ladies other than those from Russia entering the junior and senior ranks, will need to consider this tactic as well.

 

[becca]

Oh, I don't doubt Zagitova's endurance. But in terms of creating a memorable program, there is nothing interesting about the execution.

It is a personal preference, but I was bored with two minutes of footwork, two spins, then seven jump passes, and a spin to finish.

I think it is memorable when someone does something different. Which she is doing. Plus I think the jumps are tied to the music.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

I think it is memorable when someone does something different. Which she is doing. Plus I think the jumps are tied to the music.

Again, it is a personal preference.

 

[dramagrrl]

Her editor must be a complete jerk as she is still spreading her bullshit.

I have many personal connections with/at the Toronto Star, and let me tell you, there is absolutely no point writing letters of complaint to Rosie, and even less point in writing letters of complaint about Rosie. Almost all the legitimate reporters at the paper absolutely hate her, think she is (quite literally, in many ways) crazy, and believe she gives what is otherwise a very good paper a bad name and reputation. However, for some reason, the top few editors at the paper believe her writing sells papers, so they have, for the last twenty years or so, basically given her carte blanche to do whatever she wants.

When people here constantly post that they don't understand why she is "forced" to cover skating when she clearly seems to mock and hate the sport, they don't realize that no one at the Star forces Rosie to do anything. She continues to cover skating because she wants to cover skating, and has even taken away good skating assignments (Skate Canada and Canadian Nationals coverage, usually) from other sports reporters who have better knowledge of the sport and would do a much more objective and less cheap gossipy job covering these events.

I am not at all surprised at the poster earlier in the thread who said that s/he received a reply from Rosie that was riddled with inappropriate language. That is exactly how she operates, and unfortunately, complaining to an editor about this is not going to change anything because, like I said earlier, a few editors at the very top have decided that she is the paper's top and best-selling reporter and can cover whatever she wants, whenever she wants, however she wants - not just sports (and she does handpick and cover many different sporting events whenever she wants), but also hard news stories and city news that she knows almost as little about as she does about figure skating.

 

[jlai]

In person at the World Championships in Helsinki, the quality of Chen's quad jumps versus Hanyu, Fernandez, Chan, Uno, and Kolyada was not quite on the same level. Also, his short program covered deficiencies such as the long jump preparation set - ups which were really obvious in the free skate. Essentially, his free skate was three minutes of jumps, a minute of footwork, and three spins to finish.

Glad to see Nathan and his team are working more on the component scores this season, though.

Since the majority of the guys you mention only have 4t and 4s, I don't know how to compare them. Chen's 3A and 4 sal are not strong and his 4t is ok but not great. But his 4lutz is some of the best in business and the guys you mention don't have a 4lutz (unless you count practice). And Chen usually repeats the quads he is stronger in.

Kolyada mostly does the quad toe. And his 3As are good. But he doesn't have another quad for comparison purpose.

Chan has the best quad toes in the business when it happens and he doesn't get enough credit for them. Same for his 3A. Gorgeous jumps that should get + 3.

Uno's quads aren't that good if you consider the occasional prerotatoins (and no height).
Javier's quads are overrated, if his LP in Korea is any indication. They are not big, though they were landed with enough ease. It's not a wonder that he has the lowest tes, but he did sell the program more than Uno, Jin or Chen. So I don't quibble with the pcs.

Also, good goe depends on what you consider quality. For instance, Medvedeva will never have the oomph in her 3/3 that Osmond has, but she adds features to them or she does them with enough ease that she gets pretty good goes anyway.

 

[becca]

Again, it is a personal preference.

I understand but this is a sport first and foremost so for me if choice between balance and great athletic endevear...

If everyone was doing it in back half I would feel differently it is no big deal let's have balance but her being only one...

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

I understand but this is a sport first and foremost so for me if choice between balance and great athletic endevear...

If everyone was doing it in back half I would feel differently it is no big deal let's have balance but her being only one...

True. Although Team Eteri's juniors who made the Grand Prix Final are back-loading, too.

 

[Seerek]

I do have to say, only the 7 falls of the 45 quad attempts from the entire 24 man field in the free skate is pretty good, imo.

 

[olympic]

Uno's quads aren't that good if you consider the occasional prerotatoins (and no height).

I think there was a video posted on Youtube months ago that compared Nathan and Shoma's 4F side-by-side and it showed Nathan's went straight up backwards while showing Shoma's pre-rotation.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Great to see the US with two such competitive future prospects in Nathan Chen and Vincent Zhou.

 

[becca]

True. Although Team Eteri's juniors who made the Grand Prix Final are back-loading, too.

Because their coach is training them to do it. I must say this say what you will about her but I think she shows signs of improving as coaches her skaters much better jumping technique.

 

[lala]

I do have to say, only the 7 falls of the 45 quad attempts from the entire 24 man field in the free skate is pretty good, imo.

Yes, this was a great and memorable competition in good way..

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Because their coach is training them to do it. I must say this say what you will about her but I think she shows signs of improving as coaches her skaters much better jumping technique.

Her skaters are consistent, that's for sure. On the Junior Grand Prix Series, all of her skaters did seven triple free skates with triple / triple combinations and sequences. Of course, Trusova was going for quadruple salchows, too, which was amazing.

 

[barbarafan]

I have many personal connections with/at the Toronto Star, and let me tell you, there is absolutely no point writing letters of complaint to Rosie, and even less point in writing letters of complaint about Rosie. Almost all the legitimate reporters at the paper absolutely hate her, think she is (quite literally, in many ways) crazy, and believe she gives what is otherwise a very good paper a bad name and reputation. However, for some reason, the top few editors at the paper believe her writing sells papers, so they have, for the last twenty years or so, basically given her carte blanche to do whatever she wants.

When people here constantly post that they don't understand why she is "forced" to cover skating when she clearly seems to mock and hate the sport, they don't realize that no one at the Star forces Rosie to do anything. She continues to cover skating because she wants to cover skating, and has even taken away good skating assignments (Skate Canada and Canadian Nationals coverage, usually) from other sports reporters who have better knowledge of the sport and would do a much more objective and less cheap gossipy job covering these events.

I am not at all surprised at the poster earlier in the thread who said that s/he received a reply from Rosie that was riddled with inappropriate language. That is exactly how she operates, and unfortunately, complaining to an editor about this is not going to change anything because, like I said earlier, a few editors at the very top have decided that she is the paper's top and best-selling reporter and can cover whatever she wants, whenever she wants, however she wants - not just sports (and she does handpick and cover many different sporting events whenever she wants), but also hard news stories and city news that she knows almost as little about as she does about figure skating.

Crap...thanks for the info. Is there any way we could convince National Enquirer to steal her away?

 

[PRlady]

I have many personal connections with/at the Toronto Star, and let me tell you, there is absolutely no point writing letters of complaint to Rosie, and even less point in writing letters of complaint about Rosie. Almost all the legitimate reporters at the paper absolutely hate her, think she is (quite literally, in many ways) crazy, and believe she gives what is otherwise a very good paper a bad name and reputation. However, for some reason, the top few editors at the paper believe her writing sells papers, so they have, for the last twenty years or so, basically given her carte blanche to do whatever she wants.

When people here constantly post that they don't understand why she is "forced" to cover skating when she clearly seems to mock and hate the sport, they don't realize that no one at the Star forces Rosie to do anything. She continues to cover skating because she wants to cover skating, and has even taken away good skating assignments (Skate Canada and Canadian Nationals coverage, usually) from other sports reporters who have better knowledge of the sport and would do a much more objective and less cheap gossipy job covering these events.

I am not at all surprised at the poster earlier in the thread who said that s/he received a reply from Rosie that was riddled with inappropriate language. That is exactly how she operates, and unfortunately, complaining to an editor about this is not going to change anything because, like I said earlier, a few editors at the very top have decided that she is the paper's top and best-selling reporter and can cover whatever she wants, whenever she wants, however she wants - not just sports (and she does handpick and cover many different sporting events whenever she wants), but also hard news stories and city news that she knows almost as little about as she does about figure skating.

This. During my Canadian sojourn I discovered that her skating coverage is revered relative to her writing on political or social issues. I also knew people at the Star who said the same things. I'm hard-put to think of an American columnist as loathed as she is.

 

[suki]

Talk about one-dimensional. I have read several articles she has written over the years that have the same tenor. She consistently slams any skater that threatens her "chosen" skater. Fox News is positively bipartisan and balanced compared to the invective she spews. An absolute disgrace as a sports journalist, and that's a low bar.

 

[MarieM]

Last season, I'd have agreed with her. But he has made so much progress on every other aspect of his skating that I can't. He's pushing the sport. He needs a lot of work to be able to do better next season and to nail those jumps better. But he's trying hard.

 

[Anemone]

dramagrrl's comments just confirm something I've though about DiManno for years - that someone at the top must like her, in order for her ridiculous and inaccurate reporting continuing to be given space in the paper. As soon as I see her name in the byline, I know to skip the article.

 

[caseyedwards]

Chen did quote anti quad people when he said he has to focus on many things because a quad is only a few seconds so yes you train very hard for quads and stuff but you can’t ignore everything else!

 

[Lovemyvike]

I have many personal connections with/at the Toronto Star, and let me tell you, there is absolutely no point writing letters of complaint to Rosie, and even less point in writing letters of complaint about Rosie. Almost all the legitimate reporters at the paper absolutely hate her, think she is (quite literally, in many ways) crazy, and believe she gives what is otherwise a very good paper a bad name and reputation. However, for some reason, the top few editors at the paper believe her writing sells papers, so they have, for the last twenty years or so, basically given her carte blanche to do whatever she wants.

When people here constantly post that they don't understand why she is "forced" to cover skating when she clearly seems to mock and hate the sport, they don't realize that no one at the Star forces Rosie to do anything. She continues to cover skating because she wants to cover skating, and has even taken away good skating assignments (Skate Canada and Canadian Nationals coverage, usually) from other sports reporters who have better knowledge of the sport and would do a much more objective and less cheap gossipy job covering these events.

I am not at all surprised at the poster earlier in the thread who said that s/he received a reply from Rosie that was riddled with inappropriate language. That is exactly how she operates, and unfortunately, complaining to an editor about this is not going to change anything because, like I said earlier, a few editors at the very top have decided that she is the paper's top and best-selling reporter and can cover whatever she wants, whenever she wants, however she wants - not just sports (and she does handpick and cover many different sporting events whenever she wants), but also hard news stories and city news that she knows almost as little about as she does about figure skating.

Trust me, it's not just limited to the reporters there. She has a terrible reputation in the US as well. It's almost like she takes pride in being offensive.

 

[cheremary]

You are not special...This insulting ignoramus basically called Kaitlyn Osmond a slut. Her editor must be a complete jerk as she is still spreading her bullshit. Lots of people complained about the Kaitlyn nonsense.

Yeah, I was just going to mention that article on Osmond, which called her a prostitute on ice. I don't think it's a Canada nationalistic/sour grapes thing at all. She's negative towards everyone and is just a sensationalistic writer out to get a rise out of people. I like both Nathan and Patrick, and the two are clearly friends and former training mates who respect each other. There's absolutely no need to pit them against one another. There's an article on Chan linked from this one, also written by DiManno, and she was plenty negative about his performance too.

Just ignore and don't give her the clicks.