IOC's decision: (clean) Russian athletes can compete under neutral flag at PyeongChang Olympics

Tinami Amori said:
As it was discovered later, she was "falsely accused" not simply "cleared".
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This. To me it is the same thing as a man convicted of a crime and later the conviction is overturned (say, by DNA evidence). He would no longer treated as a criminal and probably would be able to answer "no" on job applications.
 
caseyedwards said:
Are the judges really members of the countries team?
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I don't know what the judges officially are, but if they're independent of national federations/associations, then what is the point of limiting a judging panel to one judge from a country or announcing the country they're from. And if they are part of national federations/associations, then I wonder what the refusal to allow Russian athletes (and presumably coaches) to be part of an official Russian team, and requiring athletes and coaches to sign oaths, would mean for them.
 
I am surprised officials have to sign a form. Because the original announcement implied officials wouldn't be allowed to attend! Did something change and I missed it?
 
MacMadame said:
I am surprised officials have to sign a form. Because the original announcement implied officials wouldn't be allowed to attend! Did something change and I missed it?
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It banned any Sochi officials but now new officials are allowed but have to sign the form

  • No member of the leadership of the Russian Olympic Team at the Olympic Winter Games Sochi 2014 can be included on the invitation list.

  • No coach or medical doctor whose athlete has been found to have committed an Anti-Doping Rule Violation can be included on the invitation list. All coaches and medical doctors included on the invitation list must sign a declaration to this effect.
 
Tinami Amori said:
Some Russian media is having a blast with a "flag" issue, writing articles like "The West is afraid of the Russian Flag".
http://www.telegraf.lv/blog/post/flag-kotorogo-boitsya-mok-felyeton-prognoz

With Putin's elections coming up in a few weeks, the issue with the Olympics is certainly swaying public towards patriotism, those who, in spite of the fact that Putin will win, were considering voting for the opposition... :D... and the hope that at least some notable percentage will vote against Putin is dwindling across the country, based on blogs, forums, chats in regional and municipal areas outside of Moscow.... ;) ... when one gets lemons, one makes lemonade.
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Makes sense, unfortunately. If the US were banned from the 2020 Olys, Mr. Make America Great Again would be re-elected in a landslide. That's how nationalism works.

(Which is why the people who boycott Israel are playing into Netanyahu's hands, but that's a PI argument.)
 
allezfred said:
I never said they equalled each other. Just that a Canadian athlete has brought disgrace to the entire Olympic movement in the past and things like this are nothing to take delight in.

But I guess you didn’t like that being brought up. Hence the name calling. ;)
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Sorry allezfred, but your first post implied that the Ben Johnson scandal equated what Russia did leading up to and in Sochi. Ben Johnson doped as did tons of other track and field athletes. It was not a state sponsored/government sponsored system like what Russia did in 2014. But we can agree to disagree on this point.

This shows your ignorance of historic doping in Canadian sport. I suggest you do a bit of reading about the Dubin Inquiry. Stating that “Ben Johnson trained in the USA” really says a lot though. :shuffle:
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I was confusing Ben Johnson’s coach who did coach in the USA when he coached Marion Jones. It was Donovan Bailey who trained in the US. As for the Dubin Inquiry, that was the Canadian Goverment’s investigation into PED use following the 1988 Olympics. I look forward to Putin launching such an investigation in Russia. :saint:

Systemic doping culture is a problem in all countries. It’s just that the systems are different. To deny that is pretty naive.
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I’m not convinced of this. I do think certain sports in certain countries have doping problems or just certain sports in general (USA track and field or Justin Gatlin I should say :lol:, Spanish tennis, cross country skiing, etc). But is there government-sponsored systemic doping in countries like Japan, South Korea, Sweden, France etc? I’m not so sure.

Also interesting that you feel sorry for Bukin, but not Stolbova. Goodness knows that she has a terrible attitude problem, but it doesn’t make it right that an athlete who has never tested positive is treated like this.
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For all we know she did test positive at some point and it wasn’t made public. Silent ban?
 
Rafter said:
Sorry allezfred, but your first post implied that the Ben Johnson scandal equated what Russia did leading up to and in Sochi. Ben Johnson doped as did tons of other track and field athletes. It was not a state sponsored/government sponsored system like what Russia did in 2014. But we can agree to disagree on this point.



I was confusing Ben Johnson’s coach who did coach in the USA when he coached Marion Jones. It was Donovan Bailey who trained in the US. As for the Dubin Inquiry, that was the Canadian Goverment’s investigation into PED use following the 1988 Olympics. I look forward to Putin launching such an investigation in Russia. :saint:



I’m not convinced of this. I do think certain sports in certain countries have doping problems or just certain sports in general (USA track and field or Justin Gatlin I should say :lol:, Spanish tennis, cross country skiing, etc). But is there government-sponsored systemic doping in countries like Japan, South Korea, Sweden, France etc? I’m not so sure.



For all we know she did test positive at some point and it wasn’t made public. Silent ban?
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Dick Pound says deals were made to reach any kind of participation of Russia in the games. Putin flatly refused parts of the "sentence" handed out to Russia by IOC to be reinstated as a competing country.The IOC backed down (it would appear) as Putin has not done at least 3 of those things. 1)- admit being guilty of the crime. 2) allow access to closed cities 3) Turn over all the old samples..The IOC did not want innocent athletes to lose their dreams through no fault of their own and I agree with that 3000%. The head of the IOC (I hope my memory is saying the right person)is pals with Putin..So now white as snow athletes can compete-Thanks to God or whoever else you worship and there is only a token hand tapping on the country as a whole. Obviously deals were made. I have read several things as this progressed although I have not read all of the reports in details. They had all the numbers on one report of samples found to be tampered with...they had a list of numbers where emails were sent to replace the dirty urine from officals..They described a female skater indicating she had won a gold and silver medal. I asked the people in this forum who it was and was dismissed as a idiot because I did not know who. In my defense I had stopped watching figure skating quite a while before Sochi due to the way V/M and D/W were being marked and I could not stomach it.So now I know the person referred to is Stolbova (who I have grown to greatly like and respect over the last few years)and it looks like they possibly had enough info to ban her for evermore. And yet the IOC is not saying this and glossing over her non participation in the Olympics. It really does look like deals have been made somewhere and many people are laughing at the IOC for their having caved in. But honestly I am glad it was not my decision to make. The idea of the innocent being punished makes me sick but so does the idea of a person who doped and won medals that should have belonged to others. One thing I am definitely happy about is that officials who attended the games (coaches and doctors included) are not allowed to attend the Olympics. They were directly responsible for the doping of the athletes and convincing them it was a good plan and there was nothing wrong with it and that it was safe. Those that refused to take part in it (good for them) knew what was going on and stayed silent.
 
So officially no more S/B and S/K. And officially, Z/G and A/R are in. Barring major issues, this is the final list - they'll get their accrediation soon.

I wonder if we'll ever know what the issue was with Stolbova and Bukin - especially the latter, because if this affects him in 2022, let him know so that he sorts his career out at least.
 
Rafter said:
Sorry allezfred, but your first post implied that the Ben Johnson scandal equated what Russia did leading up to and in Sochi. Ben Johnson doped as did tons of other track and field athletes. It was not a state sponsored/government sponsored system like what Russia did in 2014. But we can agree to disagree on this point.



I was confusing Ben Johnson’s coach who did coach in the USA when he coached Marion Jones. It was Donovan Bailey who trained in the US. As for the Dubin Inquiry, that was the Canadian Goverment’s investigation into PED use following the 1988 Olympics. I look forward to Putin launching such an investigation in Russia. :saint:



I’m not convinced of this. I do think certain sports in certain countries have doping problems or just certain sports in general (USA track and field or Justin Gatlin I should say :lol:, Spanish tennis, cross country skiing, etc). But is there government-sponsored systemic doping in countries like Japan, South Korea, Sweden, France etc? I’m not so sure.



For all we know she did test positive at some point and it wasn’t made public. Silent ban?
Click to expand...
Japan South Korea France Sweden don’t relaly have government controlled sports like Russia does. All athletes aren’t really government employees! Of course if all athletes and coaches and doctors are government employees doping is a part of the government - sports is part of the government.

barbarafan said:
Dick Pound says deals were made to reach any kind of participation of Russia in the games. Putin flatly refused parts of the "sentence" handed out to Russia by IOC to be reinstated as a competing country.The IOC backed down (it would appear) as Putin has not done at least 3 of those things. 1)- admit being guilty of the crime. 2) allow access to closed cities 3) Turn over all the old samples..The IOC did not want innocent athletes to lose their dreams through no fault of their own and I agree with that 3000%. The head of the IOC (I hope my memory is saying the right person)is pals with Putin..So now white as snow athletes can compete-Thanks to God or whoever else you worship and there is only a token hand tapping on the country as a whole. Obviously deals were made. I have read several things as this progressed although I have not read all of the reports in details. They had all the numbers on one report of samples found to be tampered with...they had a list of numbers where emails were sent to replace the dirty urine from officals..They described a female skater indicating she had won a gold and silver medal. I asked the people in this forum who it was and was dismissed as a idiot because I did not know who. In my defense I had stopped watching figure skating quite a while before Sochi due to the way V/M and D/W were being marked and I could not stomach it.So now I know the person referred to is Stolbova (who I have grown to greatly like and respect over the last few years)and it looks like they possibly had enough info to ban her for evermore. And yet the IOC is not saying this and glossing over her non participation in the Olympics. It really does look like deals have been made somewhere and many people are laughing at the IOC for their having caved in. But honestly I am glad it was not my decision to make. The idea of the innocent being punished makes me sick but so does the idea of a person who doped and won medals that should have belonged to others. One thing I am definitely happy about is that officials who attended the games (coaches and doctors included) are not allowed to attend the Olympics. They were directly responsible for the doping of the athletes and convincing them it was a good plan and there was nothing wrong with it and that it was safe. Those that refused to take part in it (good for them) knew what was going on and stayed silent.
Click to expand...

The deal talk is wrong. Why does putin make a deal banning almost all Russia’s medal contenders and having a team of nobodies who can’t medal? No flag and no medals? It would be another if there was no flag and lots of medals!
 
Anyasnake said:
So officially no more S/B and S/K. And officially, Z/G and A/R are in. Barring major issues, this is the final list - they'll get their accrediation soon.
Click to expand...
Athletes, who weren't invited (Stolbova, Bukin, Ahn, Shipulin and etc), have appealed the IOC's decision in CAS and first news from CAS should come on January, 30-31.
Honestly speaking, I think their chances are pretty small, but of course will hope for the best
 
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barbarafan said:
Dick Pound says deals were made to reach any kind of participation of Russia in the games. Putin flatly refused parts of the "sentence" handed out to Russia by IOC to be reinstated as a competing country.The IOC backed down (it would appear) as Putin has not done at least 3 of those things. 1)- admit being guilty of the crime. 2) allow access to closed cities 3) Turn over all the old samples..The IOC did not want innocent athletes to lose their dreams through no fault of their own and I agree with that 3000%. The head of the IOC (I hope my memory is saying the right person)is pals with Putin..So now white as snow athletes can compete-Thanks to God or whoever else you worship and there is only a token hand tapping on the country as a whole. Obviously deals were made. I have read several things as this progressed although I have not read all of the reports in details. They had all the numbers on one report of samples found to be tampered with...they had a list of numbers where emails were sent to replace the dirty urine from officals..They described a female skater indicating she had won a gold and silver medal. I asked the people in this forum who it was and was dismissed as a idiot because I did not know who. In my defense I had stopped watching figure skating quite a while before Sochi due to the way V/M and D/W were being marked and I could not stomach it.So now I know the person referred to is Stolbova (who I have grown to greatly like and respect over the last few years)and it looks like they possibly had enough info to ban her for evermore. And yet the IOC is not saying this and glossing over her non participation in the Olympics. It really does look like deals have been made somewhere and many people are laughing at the IOC for their having caved in. But honestly I am glad it was not my decision to make. The idea of the innocent being punished makes me sick but so does the idea of a person who doped and won medals that should have belonged to others. One thing I am definitely happy about is that officials who attended the games (coaches and doctors included) are not allowed to attend the Olympics. They were directly responsible for the doping of the athletes and convincing them it was a good plan and there was nothing wrong with it and that it was safe. Those that refused to take part in it (good for them) knew what was going on and stayed silent.
Click to expand...

Paragraphs, please.
 
Anyasnake said:
So officially no more S/B and S/K. And officially, Z/G and A/R are in. Barring major issues, this is the final list - they'll get their accrediation soon.

I wonder if we'll ever know what the issue was with Stolbova and Bukin - especially the latter, because if this affects him in 2022, let him know so that he sorts his career out at least.
Click to expand...

This decision affects Stepanova and Bukin so deeply - not just as athletes, but also as people. They've been skating together since they were kids. They are, in essence, life partners. It's not difficult to see how relaxed and trusting of each other they are. It would be pretty devastating if it broke their partnership, or forced Alexandra into making a tough choice between a limited figure skating career and her lifelong buddy.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BZq8Dyljz8-/?taken-by=aleksandrastepanova
https://www.instagram.com/p/BQEDczslhyR/?hl=en&taken-by=aleksandrastepanova
https://www.instagram.com/p/BMBHWWADvT2/?hl=en&taken-by=aleksandrastepanova
https://www.instagram.com/p/BZG6q6pBDkp/?hl=en&taken-by=aleksandrastepanova
 
Stepanova has to find a new partner. She can’t waste another four years if she wants to continue.
 
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