Ross Miner Out Of Olympic Team (OFFICIAL)

[bardtoob]

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[VGThuy]

Do you think it is right that a skater can rack up a huge score by not rotating? Zhou's sloppy, splat-filled, under-rotated free skate at Cup of China scored nearly the same as Max's almost-clean free skate there. Is that not a mark against the scoring system or against how it's implemented?

I have a much higher opinion of Vincent’s skating than you do, so I dont know if my opinion will be helpful. I personally have an issue with the way IJS is implemented not only in terms of racking high BV (though I get not wanting a repeat of 2008-2010), and how level 4s and high GOE are achieved generally as well and let’s not get started with PCS. Not to mention some inconsistency in calling.

That said, I also have an issue with some of those calls at Nationals if I’m perfectly honest. UR calls in general for the past 10 seasons have become something I’ve become a bit more disenfranchised with and think can be used as tools to mark certain skaters down when it comes to who gets the benefit of doubt and who doesn’t. I also think it has created somewhat of an obsessive-compulsive mindset with a new generation of skating fan (even has brought that out in some callers) and that puts so much stock in it in an extremely self-serving way to argue for their favorites and attack threats on the Internet.

 

[aftershocks]

Isn't there concern about the team event too though? USA isn't guaranteed the bronze I don't think. Adam is a stronger international skater, so if he is needed there (I don't know if he is)- he is better to fill in.

I'm not sure what you are getting at either @Skittl1321. Some things are fairly clear, aren't they? Are you failing to understand what's very straightforward and already articulated? Apparently so. Sigh.

Adam was always expected to be on the Olympic team, especially after his results on the GP season. He performed extremely well in the sp at Nationals, and he didn't falter that badly in the fp. It was not a difficult choice for Adam to be on the Olympic team. So since only 3 men can make the team, the ultimate choice came down between Vincent vs Ross. And frankly, there was always a short list of names and Ross Miner's name was not on that list. Ross was not expected to skate lights out in both programs, but he did and the judges rewarded him handsomely in the fp. Still apparently Adam and Jason were expected to perform to their usual level and likely be placed in front of Ross and Vincent. That did not happen. But Adam performed decently well enough not to change anyone's mind about deserving to be on the team. So the choice was ultimately between Ross and Vincent. Since Adam was always expected to be on the Olympic team, the team event was surely going to include Nathan and Adam. I haven't said or felt otherwise. And hopefully USFS won't either. With that in mind, neither Vincent nor Ross would likely be assigned to the team event, so that should not have been a factor in a choice between the two for making the Olympics. It's nice you agree that Ross being part of the Olympic team makes sense, in an inspirational capacity.

The selection committee had the opportunity to think about the ramifications of making a decision between Ross vs Vincent from all angles, beyond BOW and extending to the impact of removing the silver medalist who was the only top man to skate two clean performances. Apparently, they did not take that opportunity, nor did they take much time to arrive at their decision and make the announcement. Regardless of Nationals not ever being considered an Olympic Trials, athletes' performances at Nationals do matter and have mattered significantly. Of course, we are now entering new territory, but Sam Auxier did not have a response to the press query regarding what kind of new territory we have entered.

A lot of things being discussed now are semantics and repetition, and seemingly irritation on the part of some who would like Ross to disappear from the conversation. I also detect some purposeful attempts to distract and defuse. Ah well.

 

[misskarne]

Well, now we have an update. Ross and Ashley have withdrawn from 4CC. Grant and Angela will take their places.

No reason has yet been given.

 

[caseyedwards]

He should be going to Olympics and not 4cc anyway!

 

[vesperholly]

Well, now we have an update. Ross and Ashley have withdrawn from 4CC. Grant and Angela will take their places.

No reason has yet been given.

No comment about Ross withdrawing but Angela Wang at 4CC

 

[aftershocks]

... whether we try to coddle and protect them, or not

Some interesting and heartfelt reflections from you certainly. And I don't completely disagree with your points. OTOH, I personally do not see Ross being 'coddled and protected' in any way by anyone. I'm not sure why comments surrounding all aspects of what has happened would even be interpreted as being protective toward Ross.

There are a variety of opinions that have been expressed here with all kinds of reflections about Ross, none I would describe as necessarily 'protective.' My feelings are sympathetic, understanding, respectful and appreciative of Ross and his skating career, mostly. And I have also expressed my view that this situation and its impact extends far beyond considerations of Ross' performance and the selection committee's ultimate dismissal. Yes, the silver medal and Ross' great achievement of two clean performances are still victories for him. I have not said or felt otherwise. Neither has Ross, AFAIK.

 

[Rock2]

I can only say it so many times you're either going to look at the facts of you're not.

I can only say so many times that Nationals should have an extremely heavy weighting....
OR....
USFSA should be much more transparent about how little Nationals factors into the equation relative to the other events. Ideally, even, make it more transparent and/or formulaic. Simply saying "it's not only Nationals that we look at" is from a factual perspective a fairly weak explanation.

 

[barbk]

I can only say so many times that Nationals should have an extremely heavy weighting....
OR....
USFSA should be much more transparent about how little Nationals factors into the equation relative to the other events. Ideally, even, make it more transparent and/or formulaic. Simply saying "it's not only Nationals that we look at" is from a factual perspective a fairly weak explanation.

Umm...they had a freakin' chart showing the relative priorities of different types of competitions that would be considered. It was not whipped out of the air following the conclusion of the men's event.

 

[caseyedwards]

Umm...they had a freakin' chart showing the relative priorities of different types of competitions that would be considered. It was not whipped out of the air following the conclusion of the men's event.

They chart wasn’t weighted. The chart can be seen as demanding never doing poorly in any competion ever.

 

[barbk]

They chart wasn’t weighted. The chart can be seen as demanding never doing poorly in any competion ever.

I suspect chart interpretation might not be your best career future.

 

[Anita18]

Some interesting and heartfelt reflections from you certainly. And I don't completely disagree with your points. OTOH, I personally do not see Ross being 'coddled and protected' in any way by anyone. I'm not sure why comments surrounding all aspects of what has happened would even be interpreted as being protective toward Ross.

I've seen comments in the past few pages about how the USFSA should have given Ross a chance at his Paul Wylie moment. I consider that coddling, in a way. Or at least I was raised to consider it like that - my mother would have and told me to stop wallowing and do something else with my life.

(Then again my mom isn't usually that helpful after traumatic experiences...)

 

[aftershocks]

How is Zhou suppose to get body of work if he is constantly dropped.

Makes no sense. Vincent Zhou has not been "constantly dropped." Plus, he has a nice BOW in his first year as a senior, and as an unexpected Junior World champion (2017), and U.S. Nats silver medalist (2017), even despite not having a strong senior GP season. Vincent reportedly did not obtain the necessary minimums for 2017 senior Worlds, so to what are you referring when you erroneously say Vincent has been "constantly dropped."

 

[mackiecat]

Well, now we have an update. Ross and Ashley have withdrawn from 4CC. Grant and Angela will take their places.

No reason has yet been given.

Just plays like they are pouting

 

[caseyedwards]

Just plays like they are pouting

It’s avoiding a trap.

 

[aftershocks]

I've seen comments in the past few pages about how the USFSA should have given Ross a chance at his Paul Wylie moment. I consider that coddling, in a way. Or at least I was raised to consider it like that - my mother would have and told me to stop wallowing and do something else with my life.

(Then again my mom isn't usually that helpful after traumatic experiences...)

Ah, everyone's life experiences are different. I have seen some references to Paul Wylie, but I don't see such references as 'coddling' toward Ross Miner. I have pointed out that inclusion of Ross on the Olympic team would have provided some great inspirational stories as part of the lead-up to the Olympics, since overcoming the odds and surmounting difficult obstacles is part of what the Olympics is all about, or at least advertised to be about in some of the legendary and inspirational stories we have seen. I was just looking at a few recent Olympic athlete sagas posted on Youtube. There are quite a number of amazing human stories.

I think USFS missed out on rewarding Ross with the opportunity to add his unique story to the Olympic archive, and I'm not afraid to say so. But of course, Ross will go on and continue to do remarkable things in his life in one way or another, I'm sure. We've already seen how much he is admired by everyone who knows him. I've never seen any active figure skating athletes wallowing. They simply don't have time for that kind of thing. If they do, they soon find themselves out of the sport I would imagine. If Ross is doing any wallowing right now, which I doubt, he certainly has the right to wallow a bit in the memory of how he felt coming off the ice on January 6. Honestly, I think the Skate Gods would allow him that much. Not that I would seriously characterize it as 'wallowing,' which sounds lazy and self-indulgent. These are not adjectives that come close to accurately describing Ross or his career in skating.

 

[Anita18]

Ah, everyone's life experiences are different. I have seen some references to Paul Wylie, but I don't see such references as 'coddling' toward Ross Miner. I have pointed out that inclusion of Ross on the Olympic team would have provided some great inspirational stories as part of the lead-up to the Olympics, as overcoming the odds and surmounting difficult obstacles is part of what the Olympics is all about, or at least advertised to be about in some of the legendary and inspirational stories we have seen. I was just looking at a few recent Olympic athlete sagas posted on Youtube. There are quite a number of amazing human stories.

I think USFS missed out on rewarding Ross with the opportunity to add his unique story to the Olympic archive, and I'm not afraid to say so. But of course, Ross will go on and continue to do remarkable things in his life in one way or another, I'm sure. We've already seen how much he is admired by everyone who knows him. I've never seen any active figure skating athletes wallowing. They simply don't have time for that kind of thing. If they do, they soon find themselves out of the sport I would imagine. If Ross is doing any wallowing right now, which I doubt, he certainly has the right to wallow a bit in the memory of how he felt coming off the ice on January 6. Honestly, I think the Skate Gods would allow him that much. Not that I would seriously characterize it as 'wallowing,' which sounds lazy and self-indulgent. These are not adjectives that come close to accurately describing Ross or his career in skating.

I think so too!

And I do think people are allowed to "wallow" (as my mom would say) when they've had an awful life-changing experience. But you do have a pick yourself up and emotionally move on, in order to have a healthy life. Everyone's timelines for that will be different.

I love my mom, but she can be overly tough on these emotional things. Even though I attribute a lot of my resilience to her. (I mean, what choice does a kid have when their parent keeps telling them, "Oh well, that's life. We have to move on!" )

 

[julieann]

Just plays like they are pouting

Exactly. He could've went to the competition and try to have another skate of his life, if not do you even better, to prove he is consistent but he chose to bow out. He could've gotten good jump on next season if he chooses to compete, but for whatever reason he chooses not to, maybe he's afraid nationals was fluke and wants to end on a good note. Can't blame him for that.

 

[mackiecat]

If he is afraid Nationals was a fluke, then isn't he proving the committee they are right?

 

[caseyedwards]

What’s the point of continuing to compete in the Olympic season if you aren’t going to the Olympics or even worlds! Then he starts competing at 2018 4CC to build an impression for 2022 Beijing olympics when he is 30? He had the mistaken belief that nationals would matter in Olympic year! He may not want to stay another 4 years just to try to do worlds all 4 years and then maybe get chosen for Beijing. He totally nailed 2018 nationals and that wasn’t enough! I mean if he wants to try for Beijing then he could come back in January 2021.

 

[aftershocks]

If he is afraid Nationals was a fluke, then isn't he proving the committee they are right?

Why don't you worry about what frightens you the most, instead trying to dis Ross Miner for no logical reason.

Ross announced before the season began that he was retiring. Since he's not been included on the Olympic team, there's no incentive for him to gear up for 4CCs in an Olympic season. It's an individual choice whether to accept the assignment, not an opportunity to disprove or prove anything for a veteran like Ross, who had already announced his plans to retire.

4CCs is obviously not seen as too important by USFS in an Olympic season either, otherwise they would probably have made Ross a second alternate instead.

 

[wickedwitch]

I was hoping Miner would attend 4CC if just for the possible prize money.

 

[dinakt]

Just plays like they are pouting

Not at all.
After working on athletic achievement all their lives, each of them might have reasons to stop right after Nationals. They are not hired for the year, and there is no reason they have to prove anything to anybody.
I am happy Grant gets to go, if he wants to. I think Ross should simply do whatever feels best.
I might have a soft spot for Ross because I was present at many of his career highlights- 2011 Nationals, 2015 Rostelekom, 2018 Nationals. When he is on, he is a wonderful skater, with great SS and great sincerity. His inconsistency and occasional old-fashioned music choices and packaging never let his PCS rise to where they deserved to be.
If he calls it a career, I give him a standing O for the performances that I've seen live; they are memorable.

 

[caseyedwards]

I was hoping Miner would attend 4CC if just for the possible prize money.

The prize money is so little! You have calculate the travel cost to Asia! Not worth it.

 

[aftershocks]

Agree with you for the most part @dinakt, except I'm not getting your thinking about Ross having 'old-fashioned music choices.' What's so old-fashioned about Ross' music choices, especially for this season, especially his sp? Also, I don't see his packaging as particularly 'old-fashioned' either. If that's the case, you are condemning a whole slew of men nationally and internationally.

 

[dinakt]

Agree with you for the most part @dinakt, except I'm not getting your thinking about Ross having 'old-fashioned music choices.' What's so old-fashioned about Ross' music choices, especially for this season, especially his sp? Also, I don't see his packaging as particularly 'old-fashioned' either. If that's the case, you are condemning a whole slew of men nationally and internationally.

Not talking about this season, I loved it all
Throughout the years, I sometimes thought that a guy with such great skating skills could be a bit more edgy. But edgy or not, Ross's SS were always quality; and as for music, it is a personal perception that I'd have to reexamine to see if I still feel that way... And yes, I feel that many skaters can be more adventurous- and thus adore Nathan's SP.

 

[Yazmeen]

The prize money is so little! You have calculate the travel cost to Asia! Not worth it.

Um, USFS would pay the travel cost for a competitor...

 

[caseyedwards]

Um, USFS would pay the travel cost for a competitor...

That’s nice but the prize money is still paltry.

 

[mackiecat]

First place gets $20,000 USD. Pretty good money for a weekend of work

 

[Rock2]

Umm...they had a freakin' chart showing the relative priorities of different types of competitions that would be considered. It was not whipped out of the air following the conclusion of the men's event.

Ummm, it's the WEIGHTING that I'm complaining about. Feel free to hand out a long list of events and tell me you have this great BOW process. I interpret it more like "we have all this data out there we can pull from to justify sending who we like".

Nationals is a Tier 1 event, apparently, but 'Tier 1' doesn't seem to have much point because it's looked at as just one event of a long list.
Best to just list them all alphabetically and forget the Tier system because there doesn't seem to be one at play.