Maybe that's good since appealing to the general public is the upside to all this.
Skating fans have no hope of every getting a fully believable story. Although, I guarantee there is more dumbassary than any of us could possibly believe in the middle of the truth.
Is there such a thing as a believable story where Tonya is concerned? For me, there isn't any one version of the attack that makes complete sense. None of the key players is a reliable narrator. One of them is dead. None of them seemed to know how to keep their story straight. Plus, almost 25 years have passed, so people's memories aren't so fresh. Even the evidence itself is weird, especially that piece of paper found in the dumpster.
I was bouncing around You Tube one day and remember seeing an interview with Nancy. Based on how I remember her looking I think it must have been around the time of the 20 year mark that the interview occurred. In the interview, Nancy said something like back in 1994, the Prosecutors laid out their entire case for her, showed her all the evidence, everything they had. She said it was pretty clear from what they showed her it pretty much proved Tonya was involved from the start. I would love it if they would release that entire file and release every single solitary item, report, interview transcripts, whatever that case contains. Even with all the news reports that exist today, I bet there is still a ton of stuff in that file we never knew. Are there any aspiring investigative reporters on the thread who wanna take up that cause?! Maybe you could make it your thesis and publish .... just for us!
The overall composition of Midori's programs were underrated, IMO. Lots of transitions in and out of everything and a decent amount of moves in the field and multi-directional skating. Good matching of moves to the program music's crescendos and musical highlights (excellent sequencing of music in general, the Glenn Miller adaptation of Il Trovatore's Anvil Chorus short program as mentioned above an example).
This x 1000. Midori's skating was ahead of its time in more ways than just the jumps.
That said, some aspects of this could be said about Tonya's skating in the late 80s - the 87 NHK programs posted way back in this thread are good examples of how good she was at transitions. She pared down a lot of that later on though.
Yeah, Tonya was really on her way to becoming a much more complete skater in the late 80s than what she ultimately ended up being. Midori and Kristi's programs were really ahead-of-its time when it came to transitions and having a complete programs. Of course Midori had the 3A while Kristi attempted to really jam-pack her routine with choreography to hit it home that she was a truly complete skater.
Yeah, Tonya was really on her way to becoming a much more complete skater in the late 80s than what she ultimately ended up being. Midori and Kristi's programs were really ahead-of-its time when it came to transitions and having a complete programs. Of course Midori had the 3A while Kristi attempted to really jam-pack her routine with choreography to hit it home that she was a truly complete skater.
Do you think it was the coach switch (but same choreographer) or the 3A? Combo of both? Or constantly being called things like "unrefined" and "immature" because it wasn't the style most revered.
Do you think it was the coach switch (but same choreographer) or the 3A? Combo of both? Or constantly being called things like "unrefined" and "immature" because it wasn't the style most revered.
I think it was Tonya no longer seeing eye-to-eye with Diane who I believe wanted to keep Tonya on a certain path and continue developing skills training wise, the emphasis on the 3A, Tonya growing more independent and wanting to concentrate more on the jumps and spins (I remember watching an interview where she admitted that's what she loved the most), and Jeff's influence who would tell Tonya that she didn't need a coach and thus would probably go through periods where she wouldn't listen to another opinion about her skating.
Much later on when Tonya had more personal problems thanks to Jeff, she probably wasn't working as diligently or was as disciplined as she should have been to keep up those skills. However, her natural talent meant that if she worked really hard for a period, she would have those explosive jumps, great and fast spins, and could skate with power and speed even if not much refinement or choreography or paying attention to carriage throughout the program.
I also think maybe after years of being told how to look, act, dress, etc. by Diane and probably reinforced by various people in the skating world, Tonya rejected it because it didn't fit her natural aesthetic AND Tonya liked doing things Tonya's way. I also think she decided to just zone anything she didn't want to hear out, even things that would have ultimately helped her skating and build up her skill set, and wouldn't sacrifice her personal dignity or whatever.
I'm really surprised nobody has ever asked Tonya herself why her skating aesthetics changed so much between the 80's and 90's. Media is much too focused on "The Incident" I suppose.
I'm really surprised nobody has ever asked Tonya herself why her skating aesthetics changed so much between the 80's and 90's. Media is much too focused on "The Incident" I suppose.
Well a big plot point in the whole saga was Tonya feeling the USFSA were only into rewarding and promoting the "pretty princess" type of ladies and that she tried her very best to be what they wanted even if it obviously wasn't her. And despite her absolute best efforts they were still putting lessers ahead of her. The outsider square peg trying to fit in the USFSA sanctioned circle
Well a big plot point in the whole saga was Tonya feeling the USFSA were only into rewarding and promoting the "pretty princess" type of ladies and that she tried her very best to be what they wanted even if it obviously wasn't her. And despite her absolute best efforts they were still putting lessers ahead of her. The outsider square peg trying to fit in the USFSA sanctioned circle
It baffles me when the 'princess ideal' started being enforced by the USFSA. Tonya was celebrated internationally (when she was on form) but never as much at home.
Peggy Fleming certainly met the 'princess' criteria. However, skaters like Hamill, Fratianne and Lynn combined artistry with outstanding technical content, too.
Certainly, one of the most athletic skaters prior to Harding to suffer was Elaine Zayak, and sometimes unfairly compared to Rosalynn Sumers, because of it.
Is there such a thing as a believable story where Tonya is concerned? For me, there isn't any one version of the attack that makes complete sense. None of the key players is a reliable narrator. One of them is dead. None of them seemed to know how to keep their story straight. Plus, almost 25 years have passed, so people's memories aren't so fresh. Even the evidence itself is weird, especially that piece of paper found in the dumpster.
Ashley Banfield from HLN had Christine Brennan and Sandra Luckow on her show today. (Luckow did the doc on 15 y/o Tonya.) They did an overview of the case and discussed the “new” revelation that Tonya knew something was up.
The new movie, "I, TARA" includes the shocking revelation of Sandra Bezic's Olympic program choreography notes, crossed - out, and found mysteriously thrown into the dumpster, behind a sushi train restaurant on the outskirts of Nagano.
I'm really surprised nobody has ever asked Tonya herself why her skating aesthetics changed so much between the 80's and 90's. Media is much too focused on "The Incident" I suppose.
I'm sure I recall Tonya discussing this topic in one of the documentaries - she mentioned that she wasn't keen on the "pretty" programs she was given throughout her career (she specifically points out the 1992 short program to Moon River).
As mentioned above, her programs from early on in her career (late 80s) used composers like Shostakovich and Rossini, so there were initial attempts to "package" Tonya using a more traditional aesthetic.
I was bouncing around You Tube one day and remember seeing an interview with Nancy. Based on how I remember her looking I think it must have been around the time of the 20 year mark that the interview occurred. In the interview, Nancy said something like back in 1994, the Prosecutors laid out their entire case for her, showed her all the evidence, everything they had. She said it was pretty clear from what they showed her it pretty much proved Tonya was involved from the start. I would love it if they would release that entire file and release every single solitary item, report, interview transcripts, whatever that case contains. Even with all the news reports that exist today, I bet there is still a ton of stuff in that file we never knew. Are there any aspiring investigative reporters on the thread who wanna take up that cause?! Maybe you could make it your thesis and publish .... just for us!
Saw it this afternoon and had mixed feelings. The acting was very good and I could see why the buzz especially since acting well through terrible writing is usually respected. I thought the script had problems, mostly because it had nothing new to say about a classic story, but especially if the intent was a he said/she said set up. The move seem to reinforce that he and she had their stories straight: it was all Shawn, we knew nothing but ended up payin for his crime. It did however manage to show Tonya in a sympathetic light, even if it did so in a condescending manner. I'm not sure what else it could get nominations for other than the actors. The costumes were wonderful, but not really "designed" so much as recreated. I'd forgotten about Jeff's penchant for mock-turlenecks around the time of the whack.
The movie has a more-or-less Quentin Tarantino level of swearing as well as several disturbing, realistic depictions of domestic violence. I saw worse when I was thirteen but I was used to adult (not as in porn) literature and film from having a family that encouraged me to pursue cultural and artistic stuff.
According to the movie, which takes Jeff's viewpoint in this part (which I think is important to note)...(And I guess I'm spoiling the movie here? Whatever!)
Jeff was "inspired" by the death threats Tonya received at Regionals, and thought he'd send threatening letters to Nancy as psychological warfare and to "even out the playing field." (If Tonya gets death threats, Nancy should get death threats too! I guess..) Shawn says he knows the guys to do it. Jeff sends the guys money to get them out of state to send the letters, so the postmark wouldn't come from Portland. Tonya writes down Nancy's training rink so they'd know where to send the letters. (IIRC the movie doesn't actually show Jeff sitting Tonya down to tell her about the plan blow-by-blow, but it's clear in the movie that Tonya knows it's supposed to be "just letters."
The fact that the two dudes bash in Nancy's knee instead comes as a shock to Jeff, who confronts Shawn. "It was just supposed to be letters!" Jeff insists, but Shawn says it's better that Nancy's knee is bashed in because "he's always 4 steps ahead" (he's clearly off his rocker here, the movie portrays him as a complete moron out of his depth). Shawn even admits that he's the one who sent Tonya the death threats at Regionals.
Jeff tries to keep Tonya out of the loop. She's just won Nationals and is going to the Olympics, she doesn't need the distraction. Plus he knows she'd be in deep sh** if the authorities find out she knew they were threatening Nancy at all. But of course their story falls apart when she realizes what has snowballed. She goes to the FBI and rats him out after he hits her in frustration.
The movie isn't totally clear on when they change viewpoints. There are several instances where the interviewed character insists it didn't happen the way Tonya told it. But the planning of the whack clearly happens in Jeff's POV, since it follows him throughout.
There is a ton of smoking, A TON of cursing, lots of scenes of domestic violence (two of them frightening), and several scenes with nudity in it. Oh, and rabbit hunting is also depicted, although the rabbits aren't killed onscreen. They are shown being skinned onscreen...
I'm sure I recall Tonya discussing this topic in one of the documentaries - she mentioned that she wasn't keen on the "pretty" programs she was given throughout her career (she specifically points out the 1992 short program to Moon River).
As mentioned above, her programs from early on in her career (late 80s) used composers like Shostakovich and Rossini, so there were initial attempts to "package" Tonya using a more traditional aesthetic.
She was skating fast and vibrant stylistically (as opposed to slow and fluid ballerina style) and yet still she managed to project musically the earlier programs. I agree about her probably hating the music choices selected for her. I liked her later jazz and techno numbers, but she lost some of her musicality/vibrancy by then. Maybe due to being unfocused and in an abusive marriage? When she tried the ballerina style in 1992, you could definitely tell Rawlinson was back.
She was skating fast and vibrant stylistically (as opposed to slow and fluid ballerina style) and yet still she managed to project musically the earlier programs. I agree about her probably hating the music choices selected for her. I liked her later jazz and techno numbers, but she lost some of her musicality/vibrancy by then. Maybe due to being unfocused and in an abusive marriage? When she tried the ballerina style in 1992, you could definitely tell Rawlinson was back.
Nancy allegedly hated skating to classical music as well.
I remember a pro competition she was in, Improv On Ice, where the skaters had to make up routines from a lucky dip bag of music. Apparently, Nancy complained about having to skate to Vanessa Mae's violin interpretation of Nessun Dorma. Yet, it was probably the best skate of the competition. Go figure!
Nancy allegedly hated skating to classical music as well.
I remember a pro competition she was in, Improv On Ice, where the skaters had to make up routines from a lucky dip bag of music. Apparently, Nancy complained about having to skate to Vanessa Mae's violin interpretation of Nessun Dorma. Yet, it was probably the best skate of the competition. Go figure!
I remember a pro competition she was in, Improv On Ice, where the skaters had to make up routines from a lucky dip bag of music. Apparently, Nancy complained about having to skate to Vanessa Mae's violin interpretation of Nessun Dorma. Yet, it was probably the best skate of the competition. Go figure!
Some of the "sympathy" she receives; even on this board, indicates that the effort to "rehabilitate" her reputation/image may be working.
I have not decided whether I will watch next week's interview.
It was quite the contrast in Albertville: training mate Paul Wylie skating to Maurice Ravel for his short program, then compare that to Nancy skating to a synthesized piece composed by pairs skater Mark Militano.
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Nancy was lovely
. . . Maybe you should post this in the YouTube Thread so others can see it that dare not venture into this thread 
