From Russia with love [#28]: Autumn to Winter 2017

[Ka3sha]

Why on earth would anyone want to see Voronov over Samarin or Aliev is beyond me. The petition made sense when Menshov finished above and was not sent to the Euros, but in this case Voronov finished 4th. For a change I even agree with the judges. Voronov's skating is outdated. He could be competitive if it was between him, Pluschenko and Klimkin. I don't see why would the RusFed prefer a 30y.o inconsistent skater over a erm.. how old are those guys? 18-20? with a harder content, better skating skills (ok, Aliev, not Samarin), better programmes (seriously? a football?) and a future in this sport.

Same here.
Both Aliev and Samarin were far from being perfect (as the entire field), but Voronov wasn’t better than these young guys. It’s his usual problem: he has a successful grand prix series and then just fails at Nationals.
I know that he is a sentimental favorite, I’d have been really happy for him if he had skated great at Nationals and won silver but he hadn’t.
Samarin doesn’t deserve high PCS (and those 9s were insane) but nor does Voronov

 

[kwanfan1818]

I’d have been really happy for him if had skated great at Nationals and won silver but he didn’t.

This. Wish he had been able to kill it at Nationals or even claim a Euros spot and then end up at the OWG, but, alas.

 

[Ka3sha]

Popova/Mozgov were definitely one of my pleasant surprises at Nationals , so I can't resist:
Here's their exhibition, which was also quite fan to watch

 

[Rock2]

Why on earth would anyone want to see Voronov over Samarin or Aliev is beyond me.

Agree. Easy to like Voronov because he's older and seems like a nice guy but there is not much to watch with his skating.

Samarin is watchable because of his technical content. Sadly there isn't any program happening there.

Aliev would be my sentimental choice to go to Korea. He is the easiest to watch; he actually has a program and is musical to boot. However, he has always looked like he only has enough stamina for a short program and then he's dead. If he could somehow fix this he could score.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Samarin didn't have much of a program at Skate Canada, but he skated up to the music, and, to me, he didn't look a like junior. That's what impressed me in Regina.

 

[BittyBug]

Agree. Easy to like Voronov because he's older and seems like a nice guy but there is not much to watch with his skating.

I disagree, but then I'm a sucker for a nice line with textbook jump technique.

 

[TAHbKA]

I disagree, but then I'm a sucker for a nice line with textbook jump technique.

A textbook jump technique is Tuktamysheva, imho. Nice lines are ZabijakoEnbert, imho'
Voronov is probably a great guy, a legacy, a hard worker, a brutal male and what not, but lines and textbook technique are not about him. He has to fight for every jump, unlike Tuktamysheva who lands them out of nothing. If she decides to jump at all, that is

 

[TAHbKA]

Samarin didn't have much of a program at Skate Canada, but he skated up to the music, and, to me, he didn't look a like junior. That's what impressed me in Regina.

Samarin's programmes usually leave me with a 'wtf did I just watch' feeling, but then given his posture if he tried to depict something even slightly less straight forward 'there is a rhythm and I jump' he would be rather Tobel-esque. His choreographer is a genius. No posture, no personality, mediocre SS and the stress on the crazy jumping content. But it.works! And when he lands his jumps it looks so impressive that I almost don't mind his posture.

 

[hanca]

A textbook jump technique is Tuktamysheva, imho. Nice lines are ZabijakoEnbert, imho'
Voronov is probably a great guy, a legacy, a hard worker, a brutal male and what not, but lines and textbook technique are not about him. He has to fight for every jump, unlike Tuktamysheva who lands them out of nothing. If she decides to jump at all, that is

Everyone on this forum is saying what a textbook jump technique Tuktamysheva has, I wonder why so often she pops jumps and why she prefers doing only 3T-3T, rather than some harder combination. Does she really have that great technique or is it just a hype, because Mishin is her coach? She might have had a textbook technique as a junior, but it doesn’t seem that this textbook technique translates into successful and consistent jumps as senior, so it can’t be textbook.

 

[altai_rose]

Everyone on this forum is saying what a textbook jump technique Tuktamysheva has, I wonder why so often she pops jumps and why she prefers doing only 3T-3T, rather than some harder combination. Does she really have that great technique or is it just a hype, because Mishin is her coach? She might have had a textbook technique as a junior, but it doesn’t seem that this textbook technique translates into successful and consistent jumps as senior, so it can’t be textbook.

Having textbook jumps doesn't mean you can't also be a nervous headcase.

 

[Cherub721]

I think Tuk is like Chan. The jumps are textbook when landed but that doesn't mean they're consistent.

 

[VGThuy]

Maybe it's easier to land cheated jumps. When I mean cheated, I mean generally speaking. Maybe textbook is harder to master so skaters tend to flutz/prerotate/whip those rotations around/etc. because the likelihood of success is greater. It's like gymnastics where some gymnasts had perfect form on skills but could be less consistent than those who just chucked those skills with awful technique and form but were mentally tougher, less injury prone, or just were built to land things better.

 

[hanca]

I think Tuk is like Chan. The jumps are textbook when landed but that doesn't mean they're consistent.

But if they were so correctly done, wouldn’t they be consistent? Skaters don’t land their jmps because they make a mistake (wrong timing, too much lean etc). She is doing it (in theory) correctly and yet she is not landing it?

 

[teacakes]

Liza does a 3T3T because her lutz is so big it's harder to control on the landing to get back up for the combo. It's not that she can't do it, her 3T3T is just more consistent. Karen has a similar issue with her lutz imo.

 

[VGThuy]

Tonya Harding probably had the best triple Lutz I've seen in ladies skating, but I can't imagine her being able to do a consistent triple toe loop after it considering the higher, speed, and sheer power of that jump. I think qualities that are lauded in solo triples may not be the best for 3/3 combinations. Lu Chen had big jumps with delayed rotations that were nice but those qualities gave her issues when trying to do 3/3s. Then you have skaters with smaller jumps being able to do 3/3s.

 

[altai_rose]

Tsurskaya has a bigger 3Lutz than Tukt and Karen Chen... doesn't seem to hinder her from doing the 3Lz-3T combination.

 

[Polaris]

Yuna Kim had fantastic and consistent triple triples.

 

[VGThuy]

True that. I think with Karen, there's an uncontrolled element on her Lutz landings. To her credit, she usually goes for the triple toe, but it's not always around.

 

[zebraswan]

No. They have 2 spots for the Olympics. One for Kolyada one for either Samarin or Aliev.

Why on earth would anyone want to see Voronov over Samarin or Aliev is beyond me. The petition made sense when Menshov finished above and was not sent to the Euros, but in this case Voronov finished 4th. For a change I even agree with the judges. Voronov's skating is outdated. He could be competitive if it was between him, Pluschenko and Klimkin. I don't see why would the RusFed prefer a 30y.o inconsistent skater over a erm.. how old are those guys? 18-20? with a harder content, better skating skills (ok, Aliev, not Samarin), better programmes (seriously? a football?) and a future in this sport.

The financial support the athletes get in Russia plays not for their advantage - they are not motivated to win, but to make it to the team who will be sponsored by the state. Leonova is not finding out what else she is good at because why bother, Voronov is 30, injured, tired and is not attempting to start a career, Tuktamysheva's recent interview is about basically, not progressing, just sticking around and skating, because `why not'. The only one who dared to say `that's it' was Lipnitskaya, while someone told me even Volosozhar/Trankov are still in the team and are being financed (am not sure whether its' true though).

1. He is one of the most consistent men in the field, at least for the past 2 seasons. He had exactly one bad program this season and one last - both the FS at Russian Nats. He was THE ONLY MAN in the GPF to stay on his feet in both programs. Get your facts straight.

2. If his skating is "outdated" then what the hell is Samarin doing out there? Sergei has improved his SS and other aspects a lot in the past few years. Samarin looks like Sergei's skating did 6 or 7 years ago except for the addition of some extra quads. Skate and jump...that's literally all he does.

3. Who gives a crap about his age? What difference does that make if he is only getting better every season? There are lots of younger men whose skating is sorely lacking and they aren't beating him...I could list a few dozen for you.

4. He's not injured...where the hell did you read that? Of course he has some minor chronic issues LIKE EVERY OTHER SKATER regardless of their age. If he was tired here, it's because he just competed at the GPF. Flew 2x to Japan to compete as well as to the USA all in the space of a month. Newsflash...all skaters who compete a lot get tired.

5. The football program was Morozov's idea, that was 3 coaches and 5 YEARS ago. Have you been in a coma? The guy worked his ass off with Eteri and now with Inna G. to improve and you act like he has accomplished nothing since then. He's #2 on the ISU Season's World Ranking right now. Way ahead of Samarin, Aliev, Hanyu and many others. And yeah...Hanyu is injured, Boyang is injured. Dima Aliev is injured. Sergei is healthy, and he is competitive. His SB is like 30 points higher than Aliev's, 25 points higher than PChan's and 20 points higher than Samarin's. Shall I go on?

He gave a very telling interview after he won NHK Trophy about how much more he felt appreciated in Japan than in his home country. It made me very sad. Of course Japanese people respect age and longevity and character, as a rule. He got 2 standing Os at NHK just last month. How many skaters get that kind of reception??? That said, I know he has many fans and supporters in Russia, but they are certainly not on FSU.

 

[Kasey]

I think it's easy to have a soft spot for Voronov because he seems very thoughtful and well-spoken, like a decent and nice guy, and he's been fighting to keep up with the young kids. It's not the Plushenko thing where he takes all year off saving his body, and then tries to compete at one event (not bashing Plushenko, just saying, Voronov is still doing the number of competitions that the "youngsters" are doing, and keeping up and succeeding). While he doesn't have a graceful bone in his body, he's a hard worker, and has consistently been so for years; so I think there is respect for his attitude and his work ethic. I will admit, I would love to see him still this season (maybe Worlds if the younger dudes back out?) I've long enjoyed him as a person, which makes for enjoyment of him as a skater.

 

[Seerek]

Perhaps they could integrate some kind of total score at Europeans for Samarin and Aliev to aim for...if neither reach it, Voronov goes to Pyeongchang.

Voronov had 271, 266, 257, 234 this season..
I still can't believe these results didn't factor more into the decision making.

 

[Vagabond]

Having textbook jumps doesn't mean you can't also be a nervous headcase.

#TTW

 

[binbinwinwin]

Tsurskaya has a bigger 3Lutz than Tukt and Karen Chen... doesn't seem to hinder her from doing the 3Lz-3T combination.

Polina Tsurskaya and Yuna Kim have a lot of distance/travel on their lutzes which allow them have more flow out to tack on another jump on the end. I was told you shouldn't aim for height on the first jump in a combination since it prevents you from having enough flow for the next jump. Skaters like Eliza and Karen they seem a little more vertical, there's a lot more impact on the landing than flow so I think they don't have enough momentum coming out to get rotated triple on the end. I took a quick look at Karen vs Polina and Polina seems to land a little further back on her blade to get flow out.

 

[Cleo1782]

True that. I think with Karen, there's an uncontrolled element on her Lutz landings. To her credit, she usually goes for the triple toe, but it's not always around.

Not to hijack the Russian thread, but I think Karen's lutz technique is very faulty. She delays her rotation to the point that she almost doesn't make it around on the 3lutz and has a wild landing therefore she struggles with the toe after. She should not go for such a big lutz. Someone like Gracie Gold had a huge lutz, but when she was doing her 3-3 she reeled it in to get both jumps off. Gracie had probably the best jumps I have ever seen (especially in practice). Tsurskaya has a similar technique to Karen, but doesn't delay quite as much so she gets around, but her jumps look iffy on rotation sometimes to me too. I think Tuk has great jumping technique, but I think she has nerves now.

 

[skatepixie]

Bobrova/Soloviev:
We’re not sure that it was our last Nationals, but we will definitely take a break after this Olympic season. Bobrova added that right now she wants to quit and is ready for the fact that Sollviev may find another partner
https://sport.rambler.ru/figureskat...d_more&utm_content=rsport&utm_source=copylink

Elena I. needs a better partner for once...

 

[TAHbKA]

the whole post

Erm.. calm down? Have a couple of deep breathes? Get some relaxing medicine? Check your blood pressure?

 

[Mad for Skating]

Hey it's ok @zebraswan, we all get ticked off when our faves don't get on the team. I'm still crying "Justice for Wakaba" at the moment.

 

[TAHbKA]

Everyone on this forum is saying what a textbook jump technique Tuktamysheva has, I wonder why so often she pops jumps and why she prefers doing only 3T-3T, rather than some harder combination.

Perhaps it's her most consistent, perhaps there is an injury we don't know about, perhaps because she can do a 3t3t out of her sleep and the rest would need some work; perhaps because she knows even if she lands a 4z4t there she will not be part of the team, so why bother. Perhaps all of the above

Does she really have that great technique or is it just a hype, because Mishin is her coach?

She really does have that great technique. When you read the tutorials on how the jumps should be done - how does the take off goes, the body position in the air, the exit - Tuktamysheva has it all.

But if they were so correctly done, wouldn’t they be consistent? Skaters don’t land their jmps because they make a mistake (wrong timing, too much lean etc). She is doing it (in theory) correctly and yet she is not landing it?

No. Chafik Besseghier sometimes landed his jumps (probably more times than Tuktamysheva), but you could tell how his take offs/body position in the air/exists were just wrong wrong wrong wrong.

Oh, and I would add Volchkova and Sebestyen to the list of the ladies with an enormous 3lz

 

[caseyedwards]

Erm.. calm down? Have a couple of deep breathes? Get some relaxing medicine? Check your blood pressure?

They were all very well reasoned points!! Voronov’s season is WHY some feds are reluctant to solely go off nationals results.

 

[Ka3sha]

Wanted to translate Vaytsekhovskaya's interview with Bobrova/Soloviev but don't have enough time right now
They were asked about Zhulin's reaction after their Free Dance at Nationals, apparently his father has passed away recently

While all your rivals are strong, and the ice is slippery, you are definitely Russian#1. So while Russian Nationals is an important event, it's still not the most important one. Against that background, youк coach's emotions (Zhulin's tears) after the skate were confusing. After all, it is not the Olympic Games, it is only a victory at Nationals. Has his reaction surprised you?
EB: You don't know, what stays behind the scenes, what we are dealing with at trainings. At competitions we show only the "candy". And only we know, what is behind the beautiful wrapping.
- That's why I asked that question.
DS: I do not know if I should tell about it, but Sasha (Zhulin) has very hard times now. His father has passed away recently, whom we loved very much. He treated us with special tenderness. He loved figure skating very much, worried about us and made the trainings easier with his presence. Even now it's difficult for me to speak about this loss.
EB: I would tell that he was one of the most devoted fans of our couple. It was hard for all of us, when he died. Though I believe that he' s still watching us. Also we really didn't come here with the thought that we are the best. It's necessary to prove it every time. We have no right to make mistakes unlike many others – we feel too well, how our rivals breathe down the neck. It is a very difficult start, at least, for me.

https://rsport.ria.ru/interview/20171224/1130538617.html