I, Tonya

[BaileyCatts]

Nobody wants to be the ice waitress, ice tomboy, and ice meth whore, although they have existed and you can guess who they were.

Okay ... I think I got the waitress and the tomboy reference, but who the hell is the "ice meth whore"??!!!!!

 

[CantALoop]

Okay ... I think I got the waitress and the tomboy reference, but who the hell is the "ice meth whore"??!!!!!

Nicole Bobek? http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/m...r-nicole-bobek-stunning-fall-article-1.397707

 

[Clutz]

Okay ... I think I got the waitress and the tomboy reference, but who the hell is the "ice meth whore"??!!!!!

I think I get it...meth yes, whore is a bit harsh. At least she has turned her life around!

 

[MacMadame]

Well, everything in this thread is our opinion. I thought it sounded more like a logical reason than Tonya sabotaging her chances and staying until the very last minute.

I think it doesn't sound logical at all. It's not how USFS works. The monitors come to you at an agreed upon time and place. USFS made it clear at the time that they wanted Tonya in Albertville earlier. Her reason for not doing it is vintage Tonya and much more believable than this new excuse which took over 20 years to be put forth.

To have officials monitor her Olympic status, can't have helped her preparation, either.

Top skaters are monitored by USFS all the time. It's part of the package of being at the top.

 

[Inessence]

Actually, Rawlinson told of the monitoring issue back in 1992. Oddly enough though I’ve never heard Teachman mention it as the reason for arriving late to Albertville. Unless TH didn’t keep her informed of such things after reuniting with Gillooly. He wanted Teachman gone.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

This clip of Janney as Lavona Harding is chilling.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mYB2g8TRcY

 

[bardtoob]

Okay ... I think I got the waitress and the tomboy reference, but who the hell is the "ice meth whore"??!!!!!

Nicole Bobek? http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/m...r-nicole-bobek-stunning-fall-article-1.397707

I think I get it...meth yes, whore is a bit harsh. At least she has turned her life around!

I know that wacking Nancy gives us a very personal connection to the incident because we know a lot about Nancy, cheered for Nancy, and it happened at Nationals . . . but I think Nicole literally importing meth to selling to countless people is far worse than wacking one person that resulted in soft tissue damage since meth permanently damages the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis of the brains of users. I would have a lot more sympathy for Nicole if she had only been a user, despite the disgusting skin, teeth, etc. Nicole causes me much more disgust than Tonya ever will. Drug dealers are the ultimate in selfish people.

Nicole was both a meth user and distributor-dealer THAT PLEAD GUILTY IN COURT and only had to pay a $2,500 fine, do 250 hours of community service, and spend 5 years on probation.

. . . What, Tonya paid like $160,000, did 500 hours of community service, spent 3 years on probation, and was banned from US Figure Skating for life.

 

[Inessence]

Wow. The media is still skewing the facts!

“Harding was taken off the ice that same year, after admitting in court to knowing about her ex-husband's plot to try and break the leg of Kerrigan in a bid to keep her from participating in the 1994 Winter Olympics.
The 46-year-old would then later backtrack on her court admission.”

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...breaks-tears-new-interview.html#ixzz51sbdZs7g
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[Japanfan]

Goodness ... American culture includes "every successful girl is a princess" and, because female figure skates are on ice, female figure skaters are ice princesses ... Like tea with ice is iced tea.

Nobody wants to be the ice waitress, ice tomboy, and ice meth whore, although they have existed and you can guess who they were.

There are other options. Being an athlete first is one of them, and male skaters are commonly characterized as athletic versus artistic versus lyrical. But whereas athleticism is exalted among male skaters, it tends to be frowned upon among female skaters. Gabbie Daleman is a wonderful example of an athletic female skater - also Mae Berenece (sp?) - but TPTB are still pushing her towards the feminine stereotype, even with her attempt to step outside the box with 'Gladiator'.

'Ice warrior' is also an option for female skaters. Ash Wagner described herself as one, and I wouldn't be surprised if Michelle Kwan did as well.

 

[VGThuy]

Here's Armond White's thoughts on I, Tonya:

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/454449/deplorables-mocked-i-tonya-and-disaster-artist

https://www.out.com/armond-white/2017/12/08/camp-ice-i-tonya-desperately-need-gay-sensibility

Keep in mind, these pieces are definitely Armond White pieces so be prepared for his usual tone and attitude that makes it seem that he just doesn't enjoy film or life in general.

I thought I'd share it because I felt these reviews were sort of a hoot to read because it's really less about the film and more about the reviewer himself.

 

[Yazmeen]

Here's that 1992 SI article on Tonya, a good read.

https://www.si.com/vault/1992/01/13...rding-from-becoming-a-figure-skating-champion

 

[Inessence]

Here's that 1992 SI article on Tonya, a good read. But is also doesn't exactly match her story that the "association" MADE her get back with Jeff. Yet another example of Tonya continually changing her story to try and make herself look more abused (and I'm not denying she was abused in her life):

https://www.si.com/vault/1992/01/13...rding-from-becoming-a-figure-skating-champion

The “association” induced reunion was after their divorce in 1993 prior to the Lillehammer games.

 

[Yazmeen]

The “association” induced reunion was after their divorce in 1993 prior to the Lillehammer games.

Thanks, edited my post.

 

[MacMadame]

Actually, Rawlinson told of the monitoring issue back in 1992.

Source, please.

 

[UGG]

Gracie fell into the "ice princess" trap while Ashley somehow managed to escape it.

I know responding to this is PT, however I think she escaped it because her name was Ashley Wagner and not "Gracie Gold". A name like that with her looks and her potential is a perfect ice princess package.

Ashley was never hyped in her life the way others such as Caroline Zhang, Mirai Nagasu, Gracie...even Rachel Flatt were. She worked very hard to earn her status in the US. Other ladies were basically handed a career on a silver platter and could not do anything with it.

 

[meggonzo]

Source, please.

The video has already been posted in this thread from 1992 Worlds. Tonya dumped Teachman after the Olympics and went back to Rawlinson before Worlds. Rawlinson's info is still probably secondhand from Tonya.

 

[Inessence]

The video has already been posted in this thread from 1992 Worlds. Tonya dumped Teachman after the Olympics and went back to Rawlinson before Worlds. Rawlinson's info is still probably secondhand from Tonya.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbMQW8nGuS8&t=19s

And according to Teachman in one of the 2014 docs, she believed Tonya arrived at Albertville so late because she didn't want to leave Jeff and because she didn't think she had to get there any earlier. Oddly, I don't think I've ever heard Tonya's response to the question of why she left so late... I'll have to revisit The Tonya Tapes book and see if it's mentioned.

 

[VGThuy]

It seems that according to SI, Tonya had just reunited with Jeff some time before Nationals. That might have had something to do with it.

 

[meggonzo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbMQW8nGuS8&t=19s

And according to Teachman in one of the 2014 docs, she believed Tonya arrived at Albertville so late because she didn't want to leave Jeff and because she didn't think she had to get there any earlier. Oddly, I don't think I've ever heard Tonya's response to the question of why she left so late... I'll have to revisit The Tonya Tapes book and see if it's mentioned.

I recall her claim at the time was that she practiced better at home. Also, she doesn't get jet lag.

 

[Inessence]

I recall her claim at the time was that she practiced better at home. Also, she doesn't get jet lag.

Yeah, it's coming back to me now. Her reasons sound more like white-washing the truth though. I know what you're thinking "Who, Tonya?"

 

[Clay]

FWIW, I noticed Tonya didn't want to skate at the Olympic test event in late 1991 either.
https://youtu.be/TPkx-43lkmo

I can't remember if she was invited to the pre-1994 (September 93?) team practice event in Norway, but she wasn't there either. This team practice opportunity was profiled during the CBS Piruetten event.

 

[Inessence]

FWIW, I noticed Tonya didn't want to skate at the Olympic test event in late 1991 either.
https://youtu.be/TPkx-43lkmo

I can't remember if she was invited to the pre-1994 (September 93?) team practice event in Norway, but she wasn't there either. This team practice opportunity was profiled in during the CBS Piruetten event.

She didn't go to the one in Norway either. Cancelling at the last minute due to having an ovarian cyst that could possibly burst.

 

[berthesghost]

“I’d rather go in there cold turkey”
well that just about sums up Tonya’s whole approach to her career in a nutshell!

 

[cmk]

Source, please.

I did see an interview with Rawlinson where she said the olympic committee was monitoring her and she had to pass 3 test skates before she could go to Albertville. Its on you tube, and its either 93 or 94.

 

[bardtoob]

Hmmm . . .

Tonya Harding (USA) - 1991 Skate America, Figure Skating, Ladies' Free Skate.

A piece of Tonya's boot broke/ripped and so the laces were coming undone at the end of the performance.

It is interesting to note that Tonya had a history of breaking laces and boots while skating, so I am thinking that maybe the infamous lace problem at the 1994 Olympics was not intentional.

These days, skaters that do 3A and Quads have notorious boot problems even with improved construction and technology. Maybe it was just hard to be sympathetic to Tonya breaking pieces of her skates because nobody realizes the wear and tear she was putting on her skates as a result of doing groundbreaking content. I mean, without the 3A, it is common now, but back then there were 3-4 skaters what were doing that type of content, and Tonya was the most powerful and probably weighed the most . . . So it was probably hard to judge how strong her boots needed to be and she did not have the luxury of being able to just buy whatever she needed because these things are expensive.

ETA:

Her blade starts coming loose, and I don't think it's intentional because she was skating well.

Tonya Harding (USA) - 1993 Skate America, Ladies' Free Skate

OF COURSE, IT DOES HAVE TO BE SAID THAT ALWAYS HAVING EXCUSES IS IRRITATING.

 

[cmk]

Hmmm . . .

Tonya Harding (USA) - 1991 Skate America, Figure Skating, Ladies' Free Skate

It is interesting to note that Tonya had a history of breaking laces and boots while skating, so I am thinking that maybe the infamous lace problem at the 1994 Olympics was not intentional.

These days, skates that do 3A and Quads have notorious boot problems even with improved construction and technology. Maybe it was just hard to be sympathetic to Tonya breaking pieces of her skates because nobody realizes the wear and tear she was putting on her skates as a result of doing groundbreaking content. I mean, without the 3A, it is common now, but back then there were 3-4 skaters what were doing that type of content, and Tonya was the most powerful and probably weighed the most . . . So it was probably hard to judge how strong her boots needed to be and she did not have the luxury of being able to just whatever she needed because these things are expensive.

ETA:

Here blade starts coming loose, and I don't think it's intentional because she was skating well.

Tonya Harding (USA) - 1993 Skate America, Ladies' Free Skate

OF COURSE, IT DOES HAVE TO BE SAID THAT ALWAYS HAVING EXCUSES IS IRRITATING.

The canadian judge from 94 olympics claimed to have been the referee at 93 skate america and she didn't think the blade was loose. It looked like it was coming loose to be. It should be noted that Tonya did pick up where she left off, and didn't reskate the whole program. The judge said the other judges told her to let her fix it and skate. I don't think the canadian judge is all that bright though- she also said even without the whack and Tonya skating her absolute best she had no shot at a medal which is bs. She was better than the silver medalist Nancy(who did not deserve the gold and that skate was not flawless- doubled flip, sloppy 2axel, 2nd 3toe was underrotated, spins were not the best, and the lack of speed ). I could see Oksana beating her on the presentation mark and winning , but Tonya was better than Nancy.
Josee was not a legitimate medal contender either and was also too far back under the scoring system used at the time to get a medal. Even without the broken shoelace, Josee would have fallen anyway (like she did at worlds with no Tonya in sight.

 

[bardtoob]

She was better than the silver medalist Nancy(who did not deserve the gold and that skate was not flawless- doubled flip, sloppy 2axel, 2nd 3toe was underrotated, spins were not the best, and the lack of speed ). I could see Oksana beating her on the presentation mark and winning , but Tonya was better than Nancy.
Josee was not a legitimate medal contender either and was also too far back under the scoring system used at the time to get a medal. Even without the broken shoelace, Josee would have fallen anyway (like she did at worlds with no Tonya in sight.

I dislike Nancy, but I think she deserved to win the OGM in 1994.

Oksana should have beaten Nancy at the 1994 Olympics if she skated like she had at 1993 Euros and 1993 Worlds, but her jumps were a mess starting in the fall of 1993. Tonya could have easily beaten Oksana at 1993 Skate America had Tonya not had the blade problem as she did beat Oksana in the SP at 1993 Skate America.

I think Josee was a very talented skater with big jumps that could have put her in the mix with Tonya, Kristi, Nancy, and Midori had she been more consistent.

Tonya had exceptional potential, but she did not produce all the results she could have. Fortunately, she did become the first woman to land the 3A in the SP and LP of a single competition as well as the first American woman to land the 3A.

. . . I do not admire people with high IQs who never produce anything other an a high IQ score. I do not think much more of people that barely apply themselves when they know they have a gift.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Ito and Harding would still be competitive today with their content.

 

[Willin]

Depends on how he meant it.
Could be “she had a way out (of the scandal, as in blab all you know to the police as soon as you hear it) but instead f-ed up (decided to cover up her abusive ex-husband’s crime and got herself banned for life after admitting to obstruction of justice)”
As Tatiana would say: “choices”

I swear that Tatiana quote is like 90% of my vocabulary in regards to some skaters' programs/costumes this season...

Back of this topic. I was a whole couple of years old when this whole shebang went down, so I only have retrospectives to go off of in this situation, but basically this is my take on the situation. Tonya had a great opportunity to get herself out of it or to get herself off easier, and yet she didn't do it. She still won't do it and still makes herself seem worse.

I've seen how much having a rough childhood, absent parents, abusive parents, abusive partners, etc. etc. can cause people problems even if they're removed from the bad situation very early on. I've had multiple friends from bad situations before school age get adopted by wealthy parents who give them every opportunity to succeed only to have them habitually squander it by making horrible life choices even well into adulthood. I can't imagine how you'd end up if you never have any break from that awfulness. In that aspect, I feel sympathy for her.
Watching her interviews and perspective on the topic, she's always reminded me of three of my abused/adopted friends in particular - all of whom had very little perspective in life and are solely focused on their own needs, desires, and sense of morality (which doesn't match general consensuses on moral issues). It's incredibly frustrating to see someone continually sabotage themself through poor choices based on that focus. It's as if normal logic doesn't apply - they just habitually make awful choices and say offputting things. I accept that there's likely a mental issue going on with all of them - including Tonya, but it's so frustrating it's hard to care a lot of the time.

In that aspect, I see movies like I, Tonya and The Price of Gold as important. Tonya comes off as a terrible human being, and a lot of people have very little sympathy for her. Ultimately though it's easy to forget that even she - this great villain in American sports - isn't part of some black and white morality tale. Rather, she's part of a world where all morality is gray. She was at least partially a victim of circumstance, and these movies remind you of that. So even if now you are so frustrated with her you don't care, or you cringe when you see the real Tonya answer an interview question (like me), when you're watching the movie you're reminded that maybe you should care a little bit about her circumstances.

 

[berthesghost]

We'll never know how many kids raised in trailers and beaten with hairbrushes had the talent to land the 3a but were never even taken to the rink once. The fact that Tonya found one of the golden tickets but got escorted away by wonka's Umpa-loompas singing a little ditty about kids who hit other kids or whatever is the whole comi-tragedy from start to finish. All of Varooka's advantages couldn't help her and Charlie still won even though he cheated, etc but it's like every four years we gotten see another show about poor poor Violet and how turning purple ruined her whole life and all wonka's fault, and her father's fault and the fault of everyone else who helped guide her to that moment when she chose to pop the experimental gum in her mouth. It's the 30th anniversary of Violet turning violet! Let's do another documentary about it.