U.S. Ladies [#19]: Do You Know the Way to San Jose?

[Maximillian]

Never mind

 

[VGThuy]

Anyway, Ashley may still make the GPF depending on how her jumps look at the next GP. She doesn't seem to be as prepared for Skate Canada as I expected. It's very later-years Kwan.

 

[cbd1235]

What's with Ashley's short program?

I know this is the third time we see Moulin Rouge, but at least it's still a passable program. With extra training and better shape, I think it can be wonderful again. We saw glimmers of that between the freeskate here, and the FS practice.

That said, her short looked SO bad. She needs to revisit that choreo (and hair), because it had none of the lustre it initially had as a program. Sigh.

 

[Seerek]

Ashley took out quite a few transitions compared to the 2015-16 version of the short program. And watching the program closer, she really does need more crossovers relative to the rest of the field.

Hope at some point they get reinserted, otherwise it gets reduced to a shake and shimmy-fest.

 

[oleada]

It's hard to feel positive about Ashley, even with the bronze. It just wasn't a well skated competition. The LP was a definite improvement over the SP in terms of presentation and flow. But it's so empty and her jumps are still lacking rotation and her spins still need work.

Karen was not any better.

I think the bright spot was Courtney. I'm not a fan of the LP at all but I feel her skating has improved so much. Her packaging is so much better this season.

 

[aftershocks]

All ladies, not just the U.S. ladies, need to step it up big time. If Kaetlyn wants to challenge Medvedeva, this was not a great start to her campaign. Also, it seems to me that the way Alaine Chartrand is skating, Canada is the country that needs to extend their 3rd ladies spot to Japan, not the U.S., as some fans have dismissively suggested.

I feel sorry for Japanese ladies who seem to have a bit more depth right now with Mai, Wakaba, Sakamoto, Miyahara if she's healthy, and Marin if she gets herself together consistently. But only two of them can make the Olympic team for Japan. I didn't include Rika Hongo on that list, and it seems the judges are eager to forget her too, sadly. Rika is pretty and she's skated somewhat better in the past. It's just that her posture, ugly positions and lumbering style are a turnoff. Why can't she get help from a ballet teacher??

It was depressing watching the looks on many of these ladies faces in the kiss 'n cry. Even Sotskova who skated decently (aside from those annoying and endless arms overhead), had an anxious and desperate look in the kiss 'n cry. But she always has that uptight look in trying to battle the Russian ladies assembly line for a top spot.

Didn't Courtney and Karen realize how many points they'd left on the ice?! Why resort to praying and looking hopeful in the kiss 'n cry? Unless you know that you really skated well and deserve good scores, no prayers will be answered favorably. As someone mentioned earlier, Courtney didn't skate too badly, but she had to know she lost too many points with slightly botching a couple of jumping passes. That's not going to be good enough. Courtney has some beautiful programs. Now she needs some attack and self-belief. But I guess, stand in line for that injection. As some of the commentators kept saying, Do Not Give the Judges Any Excuse to Go to the Videotape!

There is a reason why ladies long ago ceased to be my favorite discipline.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Good Lord, Im still trying to digest what happened at SC.... I mean...Lordy...

Well.. Ash moved up to bronze BUT MANNNNNNNN does my heart go out to Anna ..JUST man.. I don't even have the stomach to venture over to the Team Trainwreck thread today. Maybe @Jeschke could fill me in..... I can't stomach it for now...

Well, who is this tech caller here.. looking at the protocols Ive never seen so many carrots in one place in my life (Isn't that what we are calling < and <<, carrots? lol)

OK, so I don't think we can call Ash the USA Queen of UR because it aint like Karen, Mirai, Mariah and everyone else don't have a whole shelf full of them either LOL..

POOR Kailani she got so many carrots that I feel too stuffed now for dinner. And aint she so cute? She remind me of a very mini Kylie Minogue.....

Man... I have dance, and pairs and men still to go but Im still too dismayed about that I just watched.....

P.S. and I know this is the wrong thread for this but Sotskova's Tanos are just awful... she look like she wiping her forehead while she in the air. Otherwise very nice.

 

[Willin]

Seriously. Ashley did get URs called, but the caller was so incredibly strict here about URs while the one at Rostelecom wasn't nearly that strict. If we get everyone in the same competition with teh same caller, then we can decide which US lady URs the most. TBH, just for the drama, I'd love to see this caller be the one at the event.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Not how she wanted it exactly I'm sure, but Ashley just pulled out a medal

LOL, I kept envisioning it that she was already back at the hotel, bathrobe on and face-timing Adam. And then a text comes in from Raf... "Get your tooshie back here." LOL

 

[ChiquitaBanana]

I like the fact the tech panel was strict on jump rotation. A real clean jump is easy to see, it lands plain backward in a straight line before curving. Give the bonus to the ones landing truly backwards, (Osmnd, Hicks, Kostner). When I start wondering if it was clean, that’s a < for me.

 

[Frida80]

Anyway, Ashley may still make the GPF depending on how her jumps look at the next GP. She doesn't seem to be as prepared for Skate Canada as I expected. It's very later-years Kwan.

She has SA. She should win barring disaster.

 

[worldsnice12]

Much better outing for Ashley in the long and the program felt well balanced. I still would have Hicks closer or slightly above Ashley in the scoring here.For me Hicks has better speed and spins and her presentation has much improved over the years. I liked however that Ashley showed some of her old grit and I hope she will be able to clean up those landings. I need to check what competiton she will be facing at SA but I suppose there is a realustic chance of her making the GP final?
I liked the LP change for Chen and was a bit surprised about the low score..Music was big but gentle and Chen seemed to feel it well.

I was wondering about this "body of work" criteria, are the judging it by placement or by points? For example, Ashley got a Bronze here but Mariah scored higher in Moscow.
Are they also taking Challenger scoring in consideration? Bradie scored very well in Italy did she not?

 

[FSfan107]

She has SA. She should win barring disaster.

She's definitely a favorite but Daleman is definitely capable of beating her as is Chen if she skates well. There are other wildcards there as well.

Edit: Just read about Daleman's surgery, so yeah I guess I understand why Wagner is the favorite.

 

[Willin]

@worldsnice12 While it's tempting to compare GP scores, I wouldn't compare the scores of SC to RT. The callers were on the far ends of the spectrum as far as stringency on certain elements. I'd wait until each skater has done more events with a wider variety of callers. I'm sure if Mariah skated at SC, her score would have been much lower. Conversely, if Ashley was at RT, her score may have been higher.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I still would have Hicks closer or slightly above Ashley in the scoring here

I do like Courtney but to me she still looks like she bulldozes through her programs.

So....This is a complete TOSS UP at Nats..

any 3 of these gals can be on the team. I see no favorite.

Although I really can't imagine Ash not being on the team.

Karen seems to be trending down as does Mirai, I have no idea yet what to make of Mariah or Courtney. Then theres also Bradie.

I think Polina is out. GG isn't even on the ice and Nats is 2 months away.

Its truly gonna be the 3 gals who skate the best those 2 nights... (However if Ash makes the Final and since SkAM is her next event where she could get a bump) that will help her street cred.

 

[cheremary]

Well, who is this tech caller here.. looking at the protocols Ive never seen so many carrots in one place in my life (Isn't that what we are calling < and <<, carrots? lol)

P.S. and I know this is the wrong thread for this but Sotskova's Tanos are just awful... she look like she wiping her forehead while she in the air. Otherwise very nice.

Excuse me for a second while I go off on a tangent, but why are under rotations referred to as carrots? Did whoever start saying that really mean a caret, which is actually ^, a proofreading mark meant for insertions? (Who did this originate with? I first heard it from Tom Z.) As far as I know, < is just a less than symbol.

And I absolutely agree re: Sotskova's tano jumps. The rest of her skating is really lovely and with extended arms and nice posture. Her jumps are quite nice too except those bent arms just make them look super messy. This seems to be a Russian girl phenomenon that I want to say started with Tuktamysheva - she always looked like she was patting her head to me. Maybe they should give more GOE for patting your head while rubbing your stomach during a jump.

 

[VGThuy]

I think for a lot of people the less than symbol is shaped like a carrot and saying “carrot” is easier and also more colorful than “less than symbol”.

 

[insideedgeua]

Just calling them under rotations and downgrades seems simple enough without any need for a change.

 

[VGThuy]

People just like using the term.

 

[Spun Silver]

I’ve assumed carrot comes from caret even if it’s pointing in a different direction. Personally I dont see a carrot when I look at a less than sign.

 

[kwanfan1818]

More like sticks.

 

[wickedwitch]

I like the fact the tech panel was strict on jump rotation. A real clean jump is easy to see, it lands plain backward in a straight line before curving. Give the bonus to the ones landing truly backwards, (Osmnd, Hicks, Kostner). When I start wondering if it was clean, that’s a < for me.

That's against the rules. The rules state that a jump may be up to 1/4 rotation under and get full credit.

 

[olympic]

All ladies, not just the U.S. ladies, need to step it up big time. If Kaetlyn wants to challenge Medvedeva, this was not a great start to her campaign. Also, it seems to me that the way Alaine Chartrand is skating, Canada is the country that needs to extend their 3rd ladies spot to Japan, not the U.S., as some fans have dismissively suggested.

I feel sorry for Japanese ladies who seem to have a bit more depth right now with Mai, Wakaba, Sakamoto, Miyahara if she's healthy, and Marin if she gets herself together consistently. But only two of them can make the Olympic team for Japan. I didn't include Rika Hongo on that list, and it seems the judges are eager to forget her too, sadly. Rika is pretty and she's skated somewhat better in the past. It's just that her posture, ugly positions and lumbering style are a turnoff. Why can't she get help from a ballet teacher??

It was depressing watching the looks on many of these ladies faces in the kiss 'n cry. Even Sotskova who skated decently (aside from those annoying and endless arms overhead), had an anxious and desperate look in the kiss 'n cry. But she always has that uptight look in trying to battle the Russian ladies assembly line for a top spot.

Didn't Courtney and Karen realize how many points they'd left on the ice?! Why resort to praying and looking hopeful in the kiss 'n cry? Unless you know that you really skated well and deserve good scores, no prayers will be answered favorably. As someone mentioned earlier, Courtney didn't skate too badly, but she had to know she lost too many points with slightly botching a couple of jumping passes. That's not going to be good enough. Courtney has some beautiful programs. Now she needs some attack and self-belief. But I guess, stand in line for that injection. As some of the commentators kept saying, Do Not Give the Judges Any Excuse to Go to the Videotape!

There is a reason why ladies long ago ceased to be my favorite discipline.

With regard to your 2nd paragraph, this is why I advocate for a different method of qualification for Worlds / Olympics. It shouldn't be about achieving a certain no. at the previous Worlds, because that does not take into consideration at all what is happening in the current season.

With regard to the K & C, Courtney and Karen probably are to a limited extent mugging for the camera. Sotskova is rightfully nervous about every competition. Russian Nationals for ladies is going to be The Hunger Games and every little thing is going to matter on the road to qualifying for the Olympics.

I don't know what to say about US ladies. They are starting behind the 8-ball and need really need good, solid skates earlier in the season to rise to the level of Osmond, Medvedeva, Zagitova, and the best of the Japanese by the time of the Olympics if the best US ladies expect to have legitimate shots at the podium, at least in the eyes of TPTB. But, somehow they leave those points on the table which does not help their cause at all.

At least, I don't hear anyone talking about 'peaking' at the right moment (maybe Ashley?). That worked for the Kween when there were fewer competitive countries, and well, no one in the current crop of US ladies has her gravitas.

 

[vesperholly]

I like the fact the tech panel was strict on jump rotation. A real clean jump is easy to see, b before curving. Give the bonus to the ones landing truly backwards, (Osmnd, Hicks, Kostner). When I start wondering if it was clean, that’s a < for me.

A jump landed on a straight line is actually slightly overrotated. A jump should ideally land on an outside edge; edges curve. It should look like a ( or ) depending on landing foot. The foot is maybe 10% off from a straight line.

But, I get what you're driving at.

 

[Jammers]

The best hope for the US Ladies to medal at the Olympics is sitting out the season. Only Gracie had the talent to not need meltdowns from other skaters to get on the podium when she was at her best and she could actually rotate her jumps.

 

[Bellanca]

As far as the makeup of the Oly team is concerned, it remains wide-open. It is still anyone's game and anyone can be on it, no sure bets, yet. However, who's stock went up? Courtney.

This comp was a ! Not much can be gleaned from it.

 

[Bellanca]

The best hope for the US Ladies to medal at the Olympics is sitting out the season.

The thing is, you're probably serious about this.

I parsed your quote a bit, but you make a valid point re skaters (possibly) relying on meltdowns to advance which is , and not the way to get through a whole season.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Karen Chen's program seems like it tries too hard to be Michelle Kwan.

I don't get that impression at all... She wants to be "individual", imo... And she did a good job putting together the new LP (but needs to work on execution).

 

[toddlj]

It appears to be time for the annual gloom and doom freakout about US ladies! OMG! They all suck!
Somehow, despite all of this happening every year, at east one US lady manages to pull it together in time for a top-5 at worlds or the Olympics. Which lady? Who knows. But it will happen if past is prologue. I shall save my hand-wringing for January.

 

[topaz]

It appears to be time for the annual gloom and doom freakout about US ladies! OMG! They all suck!
Somehow, despite all of this happening every year, at east one US lady manages to pull it together in time for a top-5 at worlds or the Olympics. Which lady? Who knows. But it will happen if past is prologue. I shall save my hand-wringing for January.

Well the gloom is for real. Courtney looked much improved but she does not have the support at home nor internationally of the judges. If Courtney can control her nerves she has just as much chance as anyone winning Nationals. I hope she sticks around after the olympics. She is just starting to improve and live up to her potential.

Ashley's practices - she fell on a few jumps but one practice I saw, the 3-3 combo looked good. She tightens up during practice and does not get the jump to follow through. She is getting better spin GOE and had one level 3 spin in the Short and one in LP. I am a huge fan of Ashley but I don't think she's a podium threat internationally unless it is a weak field and others make mistakes which is the mantra of ladies figure skating except for Evgenia M.

Karen looks in worse shape than Ashley, jump wise and her spins. Karen received comparable spin levels and GOE to Ashley.