U.S. Ladies [#19]: Do You Know the Way to San Jose?

[kwanfan1818]

Even if Mirai skated well in the SP or even in the FS later today, her PCS will be marked lower - deservedly so - she has zero expression to her skating, fewer transitions, and oftentimes plods around awkwardly between elements

And it couldn't have been more obvious after she was schooled by Medvedeva using the same music.

 

[Frida80]

I like Mirai - but even if she landed all planned content (8 triples), it is unlikely that she'd score 140 (let alone 145) - the fact that we are in Russia makes no difference. Let's not forget that Alaine Chartrand actually finished in 2nd place in the SP ahead of Medvedeva, etc. back at the Rostelecom Cup in 2015. Sure, the judges/technical controller recognize what country they are in and there's some home court advantage, but at the end of the day, if Mirai delivered she would have been rewarded. And fact is, she didn't - there was a strong case for the 3axel to be underrotated and then she screwed up the remaining two jump elements.

Even if Mirai skated well in the SP or even in the FS later today, her PCS will be marked lower - deservedly so - she has zero expression to her skating, fewer transitions, and oftentimes plods around awkwardly between elements. There also a heaviness to her skating that's reflected in her PCS marks; there's nothing easy to her skating even when you don't factor in her jump challenges. Rather than the 3axel, I was hoping that she would work on this aspect to her skating, but she did not.

I was excited to see Mirai post her success in training and even rotating jumps at the Japan Open, but my expectations for her have remained tempered based on the PCS factor alone. Her performance at the Rostelcom Cup was not unexpected for me - if she debuted on the GP anywhere else, I am not inclined to believe that the result would have necessarily
been different. She was a disaster at her GP debut at Skate Canada last year as well. I want her to do well, but I am resigned to seeing her do well only at the 4CC.

I said this season, not this competition. By my estimate if she landed everything clean tomorrow, she would get a 135-138 plus a bonus for getting everything clean.

Russia makes all the difference, especially in an Olympic year. All nations tend to boost their own skater while downplaying threats unless that threat has a huge reputation already. In 2015, Russia’s prize skaters were Elena and Liza. Zhenia had won only one GP and hadn’t become the dominate force that she is now. Alaine was a top Canadian lady. Very different circumstances that a US pewter medalist. Why do think Yuzuru constantly loses at SC? Nathan was underscored in the PCS. It’s just politics.

I see things as a process. I watch lots of junior skaters and the same thing has happened to them. They land a hard jump they’ve been working on all season and suddenly they lose focus and mess up the rest. My hope is that after Mirai has gained some confidence in her 3A she focus that excitement into her program.

 

[bardtoob]

And it couldn't have been more obvious after she was schooled by Medvedeva using the same music.

I don't know if "schooled" is exactly the right term since their goals in terms of planned content are so different.

That being said, Medvedeva was definitely better today.

 

[worldsnice12]

Bell was actually doing pretty good in her SP here altough I agree with somebody who said it might be a good idea to perhaps start to rethink her combo that does not seem to be very steady since she started doing it.

Bell is a very likeable skater and I am curious about the LP. I only liked her 4th of July program for her so it would be nice to see her with a piece that makes her stand out a little bit. She has nice qualities to her skating and we know judges are ready to reward her if she can manage to show some consistency out there.

I believe she has been flying a bit under the radar and less expectations on her shoulders means less pressure. I think she is fully capable in the LP of scoring right up there with all the other ladies except Medvededa and a half cleanish Kostner.

I was hoping for more from Mirai but I have learned to be "patient" and follow the ups and downs. A strong LP here would be a good indication that she is mature enough to put another deception in the bin, trust her training and fight back.
I wonder if she actually expected to score that well in Japan Open after all..It is not like she is used to throw down +130 points program on a regular basis (even if this is what we wish for as Mirai fans )

 

[kwanfan1818]

I don't know if "schooled" is exactly the right term since their goals in terms of planned content are so different.

Medvedeva actually had content between her jumps and was fully engaged.

 

[bardtoob]

Medvedeva actually had content between her jumps and was fully engaged.

I agree. I like it.

 

[Carolla5501]

I think sometimes we just don't like skaters. Personally I didn't like Med's program, but I know it's because I don't like her as a skater. I'm sorry she's just over-acting for me. (Were the recorded gasps really needed)


But I know that my reacting has nothing to do with her actual skating and hopefully the judges are not as shallow as I am.

 

[Frida80]

I think sometimes we just don't like skaters. Personally I didn't like Med's program, but I know it's because I don't like her as a skater. I'm sorry she's just over-acting for me. (Were the recorded gasps really needed)


But I know that my reacting has nothing to do with her actual skating and hopefully the judges are not as shallow as I am.

They don’t care. But I and a lot of people agree. The weird voice over and additional sounds were distracting an unnecessary. It was over acted and over done. I don’t like it at all. The “story”of the program makes me very uncomfortable. But she’s Med. She’s perfect and that gets the points. I much perfect her new FS to her old one. No weird sound effects or voices, just skating.

 

[artsciboy]

I said this season, not this competition. By my estimate if she landed everything clean tomorrow, she would get a 135-138 plus a bonus for getting everything clean.

Russia makes all the difference, especially in an Olympic year. All nations tend to boost their own skater while downplaying threats unless that threat has a huge reputation already. In 2015, Russia’s prize skaters were Elena and Liza. Zhenia had won only one GP and hadn’t become the dominate force that she is now. Alaine was a top Canadian lady. Very different circumstances that a US pewter medalist. Why do think Yuzuru constantly loses at SC? Nathan was underscored in the PCS. It’s just politics.

I see things as a process. I watch lots of junior skaters and the same thing has happened to them. They land a hard jump they’ve been working on all season and suddenly they lose focus and mess up the rest. My hope is that after Mirai has gained some confidence in her 3A she focus that excitement into her program.

Until Mirai works on the PCS aspects of her skating, she will not score 140+ in Russia or any other country.

Back at the 2015 Rostelecom Cup, Evgenia M. may have only had one 1 GP win under her belt, but she was the reigning World Junior Champ and had been dominant on that scene - she set the precedent for the Zavigota treatment this season. Alaine, while a "top" Canadian lady, was only a "top" lady given the relative lack of competition in Canada - leading up to the 2015 Rostelecom Cup, her international scores had been decimated by Evegenia M. over and over when the latter was still on the Junior Circuit. Yuzuru constantly loses at SC, because he constantly bombed the SP the last two times he was there. So while politics may play a part, there's only so much that can be done and the rest is up to the skaters.

As for the process you mentioned, I agree it makes sense to explain the issues associated with "junior" skaters. That said, Mirai has not been a "junior" skater in nearly a decade - there's no excuse for her to be skating the way she has without really focusing on the PCS over the past decade. Had she improved on this aspect to her skating, quite frankly, it could have saved her on a couple of occasions over the past few seasons. That's the part that I find so disappointing - she certainly has the ability to sell the program, but seems content to stick with 7s in her PCS in the hopes of rotating (which she is still struggling with).

If Mirai rotates the jumps and others falter, she may make it out of the US and onto the Olympic and World teams -but thats it. As for medals outside of the US, when others can routinely rotate 7 triples and do it with some expression and transitions, there's no way Mirai will be anywhere close to the podium unless others bomb. At this point, Mirai not only continues to struggle with underroations, but she's also dead in the face - not a fierce combination.

 

[Willin]

Look, I love Mirai and I want her on that Olympic team, but her programs are so empty. Before the 3A in her LP today I thought she was confused or had gone the wrong direction to start her program because there was no choreography in the jump set up and she just seemed to be doing the steps she wanted to.
Just like in the men's, having the most difficult program doesn't matter anymore since so many skaters can do both difficulty and choreography.

 

[Coco]

It's shocking how the quality of movement and commitment to choreography has dropped off from Skate Detroit. If I were Jeff Buttle, I would want a conference call about changes. And I'd be thinking about taking my name off the program.

 

[Willin]

@Coco Is it even a program at this point?

(Again, saying that from a point of love and frustration. I want Mirai to do well and get good results but with all the nothing in her programs I saw at Rostelecom I think her chances are diminishing and it makes me angry. Mirai can do choreography well - she did it to these same programs at several competitions this very season - why isn't she still doing it here?)

 

[Coco]

I do think she needs an angry program or something very unbeautiful, like pretending to be Lara Croft or Linda Hamilton from t2. Something with transitions but no choreography that requires her to be thoughtful, delicate or project anything calm.

 

[NAOTMAA]

Until Mirai works on the PCS aspects of her skating, she will not score 140+ in Russia or any other country.

As for the process you mentioned, I agree it makes sense to explain the issues associated with "junior" skaters. That said, Mirai has not been a "junior" skater in nearly a decade - there's no excuse for her to be skating the way she has without really focusing on the PCS over the past decade. Had she improved on this aspect to her skating, quite frankly, it could have saved her on a couple of occasions over the past few seasons. That's the part that I find so disappointing - she certainly has the ability to sell the program, but seems content to stick with 7s in her PCS in the hopes of rotating (which she is still struggling with).

It's hard to perform when you suffer from bad nerves and aren't fearless. She's too tense and thinks too much to let it go. She thinks so much about the jumps, because rotating them don't come easy, that its hard for her to think of other little movements and that's why the programs are so empty.

The last program she was able to sell was that jazz program from two (?) years ago. She performed it in that bubbly cutesy way that she use to do without effort when she was basically a senior skating baby. She seem to really like it or at least made an extra effort when skating it. But that was just one program in years of programs of zombie skating.

Perhaps that's the key. I know her team want her to look like a mature lady but it probably just doesn't fit for her (I'm not saying she's immature). They should stay upbeat and do something like the roaring 20s again or the swinging 60s or something else like those

Carolina Kostner has empty programs as well but she knows how to sell the music because the choices fit her or at least she believes in it

 

[smarts1]

The biggest problem that I have with Mirai's skating, and this all started after 2010, is that she just looks so labored. Nothing looks easy on her from the way she exits spins to her stroking.

 

[Frida80]

Until Mirai works on the PCS aspects of her skating, she will not score 140+ in Russia or any other country.

Back at the 2015 Rostelecom Cup, Evgenia M. may have only had one 1 GP win under her belt, but she was the reigning World Junior Champ and had been dominant on that scene - she set the precedent for the Zavigota treatment this season. Alaine, while a "top" Canadian lady, was only a "top" lady given the relative lack of competition in Canada - leading up to the 2015 Rostelecom Cup, her international scores had been decimated by Evegenia M. over and over when the latter was still on the Junior Circuit. Yuzuru constantly loses at SC, because he constantly bombed the SP the last two times he was there. So while politics may play a part, there's only so much that can be done and the rest is up to the skaters.

As for the process you mentioned, I agree it makes sense to explain the issues associated with "junior" skaters. That said, Mirai has not been a "junior" skater in nearly a decade - there's no excuse for her to be skating the way she has without really focusing on the PCS over the past decade. Had she improved on this aspect to her skating, quite frankly, it could have saved her on a couple of occasions over the past few seasons. That's the part that I find so disappointing - she certainly has the ability to sell the program, but seems content to stick with 7s in her PCS in the hopes of rotating (which she is still struggling with).

If Mirai rotates the jumps and others falter, she may make it out of the US and onto the Olympic and World teams -but thats it. As for medals outside of the US, when others can routinely rotate 7 triples and do it with some expression and transitions, there's no way Mirai will be anywhere close to the podium unless others bomb. At this point, Mirai not only continues to struggle with underroations, but she's also dead in the face - not a fierce combination.

I’ll explain the math I’m working with. I think Mirai can manage 64 PCS score if she’s clean. An average of eights. I think she got a 63 in US Classic. That’s a normal PCS for someone that isn’t artistic. Her TES on the other hand has huge potential, though 71 in TES at JO with a SO on her 3A and not getting her levels. If she nails rhe 3A her TES will rise about of 3 points. That’s with the full base value and a GOE of +1. Add in the lost levels and you get 76. Add that to a PCS score of 64 and you get 140. For political reasons, if Mirai was to win a gold or silver at nationals, she would get a slightly higher PCS score to represent that. Both Karen and Nathan got a boost after nationals. Furthermore, in the Olympics and Worlds, there less national politics and more of a drive to give people PB. That’s where the 145 comes from. It creates those moments that look good televised.

PCS is such crap that I can easily predict people’s score based on all factors that have nothing to do with their programs. They really need to fix it.

Everyone loves to complain on Mirai’s lack of artisty without acknowledging how hard it is to focus on both artistry and underrotations. As a long time dancer, I can tell you fixing bad technique after it’s been ingrained is HARD. It takes a lot of focus and a very long time. Mirai was trained in 6.0 were < weren’t punished. Suddenly when she’s a senior, it becomes a thing and she and many other US ladies are put on the spot. She’s been working hard for years to fix the problem. However, when skating new programs they have to be developed over time. First the jumps and then when she can commit to muscle memory, focus on the artistry. It means that in the fall, she shouldn’t focus on choreography or she’ll lose focus. After some months and competitions, she’ll be able to relax more into her programs and sell them. The good news is she’s getting closer with her FS. I hope she gets Golden Spin so she can have another competition for her SP.

 

[Willin]

@Frida80 I don't think people are complaining about Mirai's lack of artistry because she doesn't have it, but because she's not showing it. Over the summer her programs looked great and had some artistry in them that really added to the programs. In past seasons, she's performed energetic programs really well. Her exhibition programs have been good.

I understand she's changed her technique and that's hard, but she's shown it this very season, so why not keep that up. If she's nervous because it's a bigger competition, she could at least keep the choreography in instead of removing a good amount of it. There are a lot of skaters with dead faces or focused expressions who emote well enough just by performing good choreography or skating to music that fits that. (For instance, for skaters with focused expressions, Gladiator or something quiet and intense works)

 

[Coco]

She's a microcosm of all US ladies...she needs to learn to compete.

 

[Frida80]

@Frida80 I don't think people are complaining about Mirai's lack of artistry because she doesn't have it, but because she's not showing it. Over the summer her programs looked great and had some artistry in them that really added to the programs. In past seasons, she's performed energetic programs really well. Her exhibition programs have been good.

I understand she's changed her technique and that's hard, but she's shown it this very season, so why not keep that up. If she's nervous because it's a bigger competition, she could at least keep the choreography in instead of removing a good amount of it. There are a lot of skaters with dead faces or focused expressions who emote well enough just by performing good choreography or skating to music that fits that. (For instance, for skaters with focused expressions, Gladiator or something quiet and intense works)

It is because it’s a big competition and she’s focused on the jumps. Summer come have very lenient tech controllers, so there’s no worry about her score getting hammer by the panel. Now her jumps have to rock solid or else. So she has to focus more. I wish she had two challengers, so she had more time to be in front of international judges B4 the GP. Oh well.

Mirai has had the stone face since she was with Frank Carroll. It’s a habit that will be hard to break. I think she’ll emote later, but for now it’s way more important to nail those jumps than focus on emoting or choreography. She lost TES 11 points for < today. At best, emoting will get her no more than a PCS of 65-67 but she has to skate clean for that.

 

[Spun Silver]

It is because it’s a big competition and she’s focused on the jumps. Summer come have very lenient tech controllers, so there’s no worry about her score getting hammer by the panel. Now her jumps have to rock solid or else. So she has to focus more. I wish she had two challengers, so she had more time to be in front of international judges B4 the GP. Oh well.

Mirai has had the stone face since she was with Frank Carroll. It’s a habit that will be hard to break. I think she’ll emote later, but for now it’s way more important to nail those jumps than focus on emoting or choreography. She lost TES 11 points for < today. At best, emoting will get her no more than a PCS of 65-67 but she has to skate clean for that.

I dont know that Frank had anything to do with the stone face. Her body changed, the jumps got harder, and she focuses on them, and I don’t know if Tom Z. or his team place much emphasis on the interpretion/performance components.

 

[Frida80]

I dont know that Frank had anything to do with the stone face. Her body changed, the jumps got harder, and she focuses on them, and I don’t know if Tom Z. or his team place much emphasis on the interpretion/performance components.

I don't think it was Frank. I think it was just a habit she developed. She focused on the jumps and at the last StSq she'd finally start performing. I don't think any of her other coaches post Frank really care about that because she had so many other things to work on. They were more focused on building her tech so she tech so she could contend.

Mirai has come a long way since her most challenging combos were her 3F+2T and 2A+3T and didn't even have a 3S.

 

[Spun Silver]

She sure has!

 

[worldsnice12]

It's shocking how the quality of movement and commitment to choreography has dropped off from Skate Detroit. If I were Jeff Buttle, I would want a conference call about changes. And I'd be thinking about taking my name off the program.

I think it is even more shocking that Tom seems to accept zero choreography in the first part of the program..I am not expecting any masterpiece but to be honest, for the first minute you think you are watching a training session.
She has such beautiful arms, if it is hard for her to add transition, at least focus on adding some nicely choregraphed arm movevemts that are reaching out to the public.
I have no doubts she will improve technically towards Nationals so focus IS needed on the PCS front.

I remember a little thing as the prepa into the 2A3T is also long and empty and then at JO tbey had added a nice touch with an arm movement and a look towards the public that was effective there but only done half hearted here. Small touches will at least increase the overall conception in the end.
I will never expect Mirai to be a drama performer as for example Ashley or Karen but this is what I like about Mirai, she is different...I just wish her team would find away for her natural charm to shine through. If that actually demands a cutsey program, well so may be it.
I do think her Chopin piece was a great veihcule for her last year but even there, if she really had the confidence to pull out such a delicate and elegant program, I would have thought that for example, the dress would reflect the program.
Instead of a simple dress she was going all out on the crystals again and I think this is exactly an example where Mirai's personality shines through. I have never seen her so alive as in her Gatsby, Demons or even the older jazzy SP from a few years ago. I understand changing programs does not nessescary means adding transitions or extraordinary choreo however, I DO think it would help a lot performance wise.

 

[olympic]

I plan on watching everything PBP on NBC's broadcast today, but I did stream both Mirai and Mariah's LPs.

It looked like Mirai skated angry and just attacked the jumps which isn't necessarily a bad thing. There is probably still a struggle to balance the 3A w/ the 3-3 and choreography. She was probably a little rattled after the SP. We will have to wait and see.

I am generally happy for Mariah. Her score was better than her '17 Worlds score (I think), which is significant. She looked like she was flying into the 3Z-3T. I notice she has been making unforced errors (I watch Tennis w/ my husband), meaning an easy gimme in points is lost when she steps out of relatively simple jumps such as the 3L here, and a 2A at last season's Worlds. She needs to clean that up, so she can gain more points to climb the ladder and begin competing w/ the ladies ranked above her. Yet, I'm happy she attacked the 3Z-3T in the SP.

Also, I liked the beginning and end of her WSS music. I found the middle to be meh.

 

[her grace]

Bell's getting pretty consistent at having little errors, but not a complete meltdown. It was nice to see her land the 3z-3t in the LP. The caller seemed a bit generous to Bell. Bell also didn't look completely comfortable with the choreography in either the SP or LP. Hopefully, that's due to late switches of programs. Her interpretive ability could help carry her a bit more even if she has some errors.

The third spot still looks wide open.

 

[honey]

I really love Mariah Bell's skating, but that LP is just . It looks slapped together after the originally planned program didn't work out. I think she is way better than this. Its structure doesn't make any sense to me. Why is the climax of "America" being wasted on two spins? And as is the case with so many West Side Story programs, I think there's too many pieces of music being used.

I think her Chicago SP is great but I hope we do get to see the Stand By Me program soon. She seems a little less into being Roxie this season and it reads stale.

 

[Sylvia]

Cindy Stuart choreographed Bell's West Side Story FS and she previously has done some very good programs for Mariah (one of my faves was her 2014-15 "Little Talks" SP).

Here's what Bell was quoted as saying about WSS at Champs Camp (IN article):

"I used the music as a junior [2012-13 season], and I really loved it," she said. "I was trying to decide for two months what I was going to skate to, but then I turned back to what I loved before. I'm using some different pieces and vocals, which is really cool. I love the program; I feel it's set up really well and the difficult jumps are in the part of the program where I can breathe. It's not super fast and chaotic."

I don't know why "Stand By Me" by Florence + The Machine was listed in Bell's ISU bio last week as her SP (that's why it showed up in the ISU music screen graphic on Friday) but it has since been updated to her last season's Chicago medley for this season. Her Team USA bio on IN used to list "Across the Universe" as her 2017-18 SP but that has since been updated as well.

 

[Wyliefan]

I'm very fond of WSS, and I'm very fond of Mariah, but unfortunately, the two don't seem to go together very well yet. Maybe she just needs time to settle into it.

As for Mirai, she has so much personality off the ice; if she could just bring a tenth of that onto the ice, she could light up the arena. I wish she could. It's hard to watch her get out there and shut down like that.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

As for Mirai, she has so much personality off the ice; if she could just bring a tenth of that onto the ice, she could light up the arena. I wish she could. It's hard to watch her get out there and shut down like that.

Ive been thinking the exact same thing. We see all that personality of hers in that Rostelecom promo video where she has made me smile and laugh for DAYS!!!! And then as some people mention she goes stone faced in her programs. I guess concentrating on all those jumps....

I hope her scores go much higher soon!

 

[Jammers]

I think it is even more shocking that Tom seems to accept zero choreography in the first part of the program..I am not expecting any masterpiece but to be honest, for the first minute you think you are watching a training session.
She has such beautiful arms, if it is hard for her to add transition, at least focus on adding some nicely choregraphed arm movevemts that are reaching out to the public.
I have no doubts she will improve technically towards Nationals so focus IS needed on the PCS front.

I remember a little thing as the prepa into the 2A3T is also long and empty and then at JO tbey had added a nice touch with an arm movement and a look towards the public that was effective there but only done half hearted here. Small touches will at least increase the overall conception in the end.
I will never expect Mirai to be a drama performer as for example Ashley or Karen but this is what I like about Mirai, she is different...I just wish her team would find away for her natural charm to shine through. If that actually demands a cutsey program, well so may be it.
I do think her Chopin piece was a great veihcule for her last year but even there, if she really had the confidence to pull out such a delicate and elegant program, I would have thought that for example, the dress would reflect the program.
Instead of a simple dress she was going all out on the crystals again and I think this is exactly an example where Mirai's personality shines through. I have never seen her so alive as in her Gatsby, Demons or even the older jazzy SP from a few years ago. I understand changing programs does not nessescary means adding transitions or extraordinary choreo however, I DO think it would help a lot performance wise.

It is jarring to see how Mirai sets up for her 3axel. In the SP when she put her arms down she looks like she's in the warmup and just skating around the rink then she sets up the jump.