U.S. Ladies [#18]: These Boots Are Made for Skating

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So it would appear that 6 points behind the US champion became 36 points, but Caroline still started out her season with a silver medal. :respec: #teamzhang

She has the power of Michelle Kwan in the short, and Karen Kwan in the long.:judge: Her footwork from last year is also back, it only took one day and we're back to reality. :gallopin1
 
Karpenko said:
So it would appear that 6 points behind the US champion became 36 points, but Caroline still started out her season with a silver medal. :respec: #teamzhang

She has the power of Michelle Kwan in the short, and Karen Kwan in the long.:judge: Her footwork from last year is also back, it only took one day and we're back to reality. :gallopin1
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Except with like 1/4 of their power. :EVILLE:

But it was a very respectable showing for Caroline and nobody can take away that brilliant SP score. I mean, I think she shocked EVERYONE with that.
 
I have to agree somewhat, I do think it's a solid program though. She skated it amazing for July and I'm actually really excited about her this season. If she does this again on the GP she could make the final.

About halfway into her LP it started feeling like an extended version of her SP though (style-wise), and I enjoy the short a lot more. I'm not as big on the program construction in the LP and it doesn't have the same amount of fire and passion.

Everyone was about 8-9 points too high IMO, but all is forgiven.
 
For me, a part of the reason why I like the LP more is because I LOATHE Tango de Roxanne. Karen actually makes me like it, which never happened to me before but I do remember enjoying Yuna's version just because she sold it well and it didn't have those awful singing voices of Ewan McGregor and that guy whose vocal chords went through a meat grinder. Plus, I felt some of the choreography in the SP worked against the music. In the LP, it may need more, but at least almost every move worked brilliantly with the music.
 
^ :lol: that's a great description, I do love meat though. I like the grittiness of his voice, it adds to the fire and passion of the song IMO.

Also Polina's LP is so much better than "Gone With the Wind"! :cheer2: I love the way she uses her arms, again those jumps have completely left the premises. #mayday :gallopin1 It has potential to be a lovely program, I like the way that it builds and she looks more natural when performing.
 
Karpenko said:
^ :lol: that's a great description, I do love meat though. I like the grittiness of his voice, it adds to the fire and passion of the song IMO.

Also Polina's LP is so much better than "Gone With the Wind"! :cheer2: I love the way she uses her arms, again those jumps have completely left the premises. #mayday It has potential to be a lovely program, I like the way that it builds and she looks more natural when performing.
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YES! Polina was always so gawky and uncoordinated in-between the elements and the positions she hit well. That was so maddening back then. Now she seems to have really grown into herself and her moves follow suit.
 
Polina is moving very nicely, but that just about it, and I can't take this music for 4 min of Time to say goodbye with someone just moving nicely, and nothing else going on. When it's no passion and angst like Marina and Gwendal that music is zzzzz. I know Polina need more time. That's ok. It's early. Bring the passion, girl!

Karen, wow again, she's got her mind set on being the first lady, and she is! Her jumps cover so much distance, she really knows how to use her arms and hands, and she catches the character of the music perfectly. I really don't want to hear another Carmen, but these cuts were ok, I can live with it. Good for her being so confident and ready this early in the season, hopefully she can just build on this and have a killer 2017/18. She's carrying the momentum from last season, good for her! I want Karen at the OG with Gracie!

Caroline Z was apparently slower than Karen, but nothing new, she's working hard and will hopefully power up, her 3l3l is fab, she's hitting it every time. But I do want to chase her around the ice a bit to speed her up, she appears to be holding back, I'm not getting a kick out of it, yet....



Thanks @UMBS Go Blue for the great videos!
 
VIETgrlTerifa said:
For me, a part of the reason why I like the LP more is because I LOATHE Tango de Roxanne. Karen actually makes me like it, which never happened to me before but I do remember enjoying Yuna's version just because she sold it well and it didn't have those awful singing voices of Ewan McGregor and that guy whose vocal chords went through a meat grinder. Plus, I felt some of the choreography in the SP worked against the music. In the LP, it may need more, but at least almost every move worked brilliantly with the music.
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Yu-Na's Roxanne was great, one of my fave programs of hers. Meat grinder:lol:
 
Thanks so much again for the videos @UMBS Go Blue and @Lanie!! :)

So I like Karen Chen's Carmen LP. Unlike a lot of skaters, Karen really has the speed & presence to pull off this music. The "bigness" of it works with her skating style. I feel like she is growing by the day in her charisma and authority on the ice. She really commands your attention out there. That said, the program is definitely still in the development stage. I'm not sure she needs to add more transitions. I think the lack of busy transitions actually highlights her speed & flow and the bigness of her jumps. I don't know about rotation on the jumps--it's hard to tell with video shot at a distance--but in other respects, her jumps look really good. The ice coverage she gets on the 2A/half loop/3S is beautiful; and the Hanyu entrance to her 2A is impressive. She needs to hit that 2A/1Lp/3S every time this season, because it's just so good and impressive and right in front of the judges .... Where I see room for growth is in hitting the musical accents. Some of her arm flourishes, etc., weren't quite on time with the music, which is only to be expected with such a new free skate. I think in the next month or two, she'll get that cleaned up and she'll be ready in time for the GP. I thought she looked great--such a strong start to the season for her. :cheer2:

Caroline Zhang--very nice, but again, just slow and lacking in skating skills. Love her 3Lp/3Lp, though!!

I was really happy to see Emmy Ma skate so well! Her jumps looked good. I think she's probably only been running programs with jumps for a couple weeks now [ETA: due to her earlier ankle sprain injury]; so understandably, her speed & sharpness aren't there yet. But very solid, and her musicality carried her through, especially toward the end of the program. I do think she made her case to at least be considered for a JGP slot. Or, failing that, a senior ladies slot at a non-CS Senior B event?

I thought Kaitlin Nguyen's free skate suited her style better than her SP. Otherwise, nothing to add to my comments on her yesterday.

Really happy to see Vivian Le competing again, and making progress, like @Sylvia said elsewhere. That said, Vivian doesn't seem to be quite the same skater we saw 2 years ago on the Junior Grand Prix. At that time, she impressed me so much with her nonstop speed/flow, and I don't really see that quality right now, but hopefully it comes back with more training/conditioning. Artistically, the program didn't make much impression on me. (And, minor thing, but hope she changes the tights, which broke up her line.)

I liked Polina's program a lot. I think it could be really, really good for her. It's pretty, but not in a boring way at all. I just hope her triple Lutz and flip come back online soon!
 
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kwanatic said:
UMBS has posted videos for Caroline, Polina, Mae Berenice Meite and Kaitlyn Nguyen.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZOyAaTYAEbzgdPd8LxHN3Q

Karen is looking good early which is a good sign...

Can't wait to see what happens in the FS!
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Karen Chen is looking World Class - Not just the jumps & spins but those spirals! I can't wait to see how the Carmen FS develops, once she gets the nuances down and wears the "full Carmen" costume & make-up. Watch out, Russian babes.

Polina looks like she's having fun. Good for her..."Time to Say Good-bye" very pretty.

Caroline also pretty, as she channels her inner Kwan.
 
WOWWWWW I eat my words!!!!!

Karen was FABBBB!!!

Did y'all see THAT 2A/half loop/3S????? HOLYYYYY! The ice coverage!! WORLD class! +3!!!!!!!!

And I think there is very interesting choreo there! I was VERY surprised. I see both her programs doing very well, as long as the tushie stays off the ice.

I think I see her and Gabby as the North American dynamos this cycle.


So, Polina.. Scene d'Amour... LOL I just mentioned this song in another thread last week! Very Maria Butyrskaya! Love it. Slay! Now, we have the woman on the ice.

Neither of her songs are warhorses so that alone she has my attention.

Do y'all think these single jumps are intentional for now? Because they are wayyyy too many of them to just happen that way..... She wasnt going in to those singles as if there were supposed to be triples anyway.
 
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AngieNikodinovLove said:
Do y'all think these single jumps are intentional for now? Because they are wayyyy too many of them to just happen that way..... She wasnt going in to those singles as if there were supposed to be triples anyway.
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As far as I can tell, definitely intentional because they didn't look like pops at all.
 
Looks like Karen and Mirai are in it to win. Karen is putting that fire and snap into everything the way the Russian ladies do and the judges reward. To me Mirai has the greater potential right now. She has Mao-quality skating skills, the full set of jumps (right?) and the 3A. If she is mostly rotated and the 3A is a serious attempt she'll get the PCS bump. Karen is very strong and beautiful but nothing there makes her unique.
 
I would bet my house that Karen hits over Mirai, for some reason. I have more faith in Karen. I love Mirai a lot more but I've had my hopes and dreams crushed too many times. All it would take is another boot issue and I could lose a house over it though.

And where in the world are you hearing Scene D'Amour in Polina's LP @AngieNikodinovLove ? :p you've got Maria on the brain! :summer: I do love Maria's program more than Polina's.
 
Karpenko said:
I would bet my house that Karen hits over Mirai, for some reason. I have more faith in Karen. I love Mirai a lot more but I've had my hopes and dreams crushed too many times. All it would take is another boot issue and I could lose a house over it though.

And where in the world are you hearing Scene D'Amour in Polina's LP @AngieNikodinovLove ? :p you've got Maria on the brain! :summer: I do love Maria's program more than Polina's.
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LOL.....the first minute of her program before it goes in to "Time To Say Bye Felicia" is "Scene d'Amour". The same album of Sarah's.

I too think Karen will hit over Mirai. I think Mirai will have more < on jumps than Karen will.

Karen is also the fastest chick we have in spins and coverage across the ice.
 
My thoughts-

I was riveted by Karen's skates and that was an eye-popping score. 218 points. Wow. It would be great though if she could repeat the Flip or Loop instead of the Sal. More points if executed properly. Obviously keep the 2A-1L-3S but turn the 2d 3S-2T into a 3F or 3L-2T. Also, I suppose there is no 3A. There were practice attempts I believe.

Caroline gets major respect from me. She has weathered all sorts of injury and bad technique yet never quits. Oppegard had stated she can do a 3S and 3F-3T. I'd like to see that at Nationals. It would really create one of those moments in skating history

ETA - My fantasy jump layout for Zhang:

3F-3T
3Z
3S
----
3L-3L
3F
2A-2T-2L
2A
 
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olympic said:
I was riveted by Karen's skates and that was an eye-popping score. 218 points. Wow. It would be great though if she could repeat the Flip or Loop instead of the Sal. More points if executed properly.
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Normally I'd agree with this--but I suspect Karen's team has planned it this way because Salchow is one of her best jumps. I think it's maybe more consistent for her than flip or loop. Plus, she does it very well, with good height and coverage, which means she should get good GOE usually. If she repeated loop or flip, she might be more likely to make a mistake, plus might not get as good GOE as on the Salchow, thus potentially negating the extra .5/.6 base value.
 
clairecloutier said:
Normally I'd agree with this--but I suspect Karen's team has planned it this way because Salchow is one of her best jumps. I think it's maybe more consistent for her than flip or loop. Plus, she does it very well, with good height and coverage, which means she should get good GOE usually. If she repeated loop or flip, she might be more likely to make a mistake, plus might not get as good GOE as on the Salchow, thus potentially negating the extra .5/.6 base value.
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True. I just thought the Flip and Loop looked better here, though so that it might be a possibility
 
Glory me, Polina Edmonds has two incredible programs! She has terrific artistic impression and is really feeling the music. Shades of Caryn Kadavy! I am extremely disappointed in the jumps,but remain optimism she will be ready for the fall internationals.This will be a break-through season for her.

Not impressed with Karen Chen. She's skating like a Russian,all jumps and crossovers.Why is she playing that game?

Caroline Zhang was fantastic,she deserves Skate America, but this is the USFSA,so it probably won't happen. The triple loop combination is simply divine,and she had a much more complete program than Chen.

-BB
 
SkateFanBerlin said:
Looks like Karen and Mirai are in it to win. Karen is putting that fire and snap into everything the way the Russian ladies do and the judges reward. To me Mirai has the greater potential right now. She has Mao-quality skating skills, the full set of jumps (right?) and the 3A. If she is mostly rotated and the 3A is a serious attempt she'll get the PCS bump. Karen is very strong and beautiful but nothing there makes her unique.
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Mirai and Karen are still both works-in-progress though. I think they are both extremely and precociously talented, but both have had trouble with consistency, confidence, and eliminating under-rotations. At this point, it's probably about even in their ability to full out express themselves artistically, but they are both so capable of nailing it technically and artistically. I would give Karen a slight edge in artistic expressiveness because of how good she was with On Golden Pond. Mirai has more of a tendency to zone out with a flat, over-concentrated expression (which has happened on occasion to Karen too).

So Karen and Mirai both have room to grow in pulling out and flying free with their latent artistic abilities. They are both excellent spinners, and indeed, they have both come out this season with fire and determination. And so has Courtney Hicks, kicking it up a notch artistically and expressively with wonderful choreo. It's so great to see this from these ladies. I'm not gonna overly criticize their choices and their approaches to this season that hasn't even started yet really. :D I'm just more than a little excited, and I'm trying to temper over-excitement.

Brenda_Bottems said:
She's skating like a Russian,all jumps and crossovers.Why is she playing that game?
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Interesting observation. You may be right, but isn't the obvious answer to your question: 'It's a game that's being heavily rewarded by the judges.' I don't disagree with you in the sense that I don't want to see 'Russian-ladies-clones' skating. But anyway, both Karen and Mirai have greater range and authenticity artistically than the OTT cheese Med has been selling and getting away with.
 
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