U.S. Ladies [#17]: Heading to Helsinki in a Handbasket

[berthesghost]

As much as I dislike the cover of that not-so-great-for-skating abba song, let's face it, it's not the real problem. One only has to rewatch 2016 worlds to see how one can sell the heck out of a baz Lurhmann soundtrack lp cheesiness et al and win a medal vs sleepwalk thru one to focus on skating clean and end up 10th.

 

[AxelAnnie]

I loved her 2012-2013 skate to Saint-Saens Symphony No. 3.

Actually, both the cut of the music and the choreography for the first 2/3rds were meh, but the ending!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tyf_OzC_maw

I just watched this. She skated well, her ending spin was wonderful.
However, I see no connection between Marai and the music, or Marai and the audience. Disappointing.

 

[aftershocks]

^^ You mean Mirai. As I mentioned in my previous post, I think it's the lack of expression on Mirai's face, and her inability to let loose. I don't think she necessarily doesn't feel the music. She just seems to have difficulty fully engaging with and expressing the music because she's over-focused on completing her elements. She never learned the fine balance between not showing the mental effort and being confident enough with the muscle memory to focus on fully performing.

The flashes of times when she has relaxed and performed or smiled with abandon have been few and far between. I certainly see those flashes of brilliance and abandon in this performance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hsp-7S79IYI 2010 Olympic fs

At the time, perhaps her young age and the politics were not in Mirai's favor at 2010 Olympics. But no question, she was on fire in that performance. What went so wrong after this? Personal problems (her mother's illness)? Growing pains? And then of course, the eventual split with Frank.

 

[AxelAnnie]

^^ Indeed, the need to break through on the performance level has been an ongoing issue for Mirai. I think her fun fp last season was a good step in the right direction. But this year, maybe the push to improve technically didn't help her ability to build on last season and demonstrate growth artistically?

Here's Mirai's breakthrough 2008 U.S. Nationals fp:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3CIoTn4y6U
Her face was the same unemotional mask for the most part, that we've come to know and criticize. But I guess back then (especially at her young age), it worked for Coppelia. Plus, everyone was gobsmacked by her talent and potential, and couldn't see past that to the flaws that needed attention, apparently. Scott Hamilton did mention how she was 'all business' until her ending pose when a smile finally broke out.



Ah, that's wonderful, thanks for sharing. Mirai was demonstrating a great deal of ease, flow and confidence in this program. From watching the replay and listening to Eurosport guys, it appears she had one minor edge call and perhaps a slight under-rotation on another jump, but she's very delightful and more assured than she became even a year later. I don't recall how Mirai fared overall in 2012-13. Mirai does seem to be up generally when she performs at NHK, and the audiences there always receive her so well. Apparently, there were a number of great performances by ladies at that event (Suzuki and Mao were specifically mentioned in this clip).

The choreo for her 2012-13 free program was by Susan Austin. It really suited Mirai so well. But unfortunately, I believe this was a season or so after she'd parted ways with Frank, and apparently Mirai was sorta no longer in USFS' good graces. This at a time when with the right nurturing, understanding and patience, she surely could have overcome some of her personal and career struggles and donned the wings to soar. Instead, it appears she began to lose more and more confidence in herself, and she began to experience increasing problems with under-rotation calls. And then another subsequent coaching split to where she was coach-less by the time of 2014 U.S. Nationals.

When I look back at this gorgeous 2012-13 free program and performance it becomes even clearer what Scott Hamilton was saying in his recent broadcast: Nurture great talent. It causes me to wonder whether Mirai might have fared better as a Japanese skater (had she been born and raised in Japan). I don't mean that she should have considered switching country affiliations. I think she's American through and through. It's just the idea that with her brilliant talent, might she have been nurtured and guided in a more beneficial way in Japan, with the right coaching and choreo? Honestly, she has the talent and brilliance to be at least a 3-time World champion by now.

I do think that even with this wonderful 2012-13 program at NHK, Mirai still needed help with breaking through fully on the performance level, but at least she seemed to have better flow and confidence. Currently, Mirai seems to have rebuilt herself to the point where her confidence is increasing, but it's not fully there yet, and her performance level definitely still needs help. She's older which can be a good thing mentally, but obviously that factor can be more challenging physically.

I do wish the best for Mirai going forward. She needs to match up with someone who can connect and help click something together for her mentally, emotionally, magically. It doesn't have to be a coach, as I think she's in good hands technically with Tom Z. But just someone who gets her personality and can help her connect with her expressive side and bring it out fully on the ice. I don't know who that someone would be, but there's always hope. Such talent! Throw caution to the winds Mirai! Believe in yourself! Be yourself! Please SkateGods, help Mirai connect with her own personal Angel! And I think it should maybe be someone other than David Wilson on this Olympics go-round. I saw potential in Mirai's fp at the beginning of this season, but ITA with @clairecloutier that this fp never truly worked out. Should Mirai keep the Jeff Buttle sp and get a new fp by Jeff, or maybe Shae Lynn? Or someone good but lesser known such as Katherine Hill? (Hill has choreographed for Jordan Moeller, et al, and she's competed in Young Artists Showcase).

I just watched this skate. I did not see either joy or connection with the music or the audience. Contrast it with Akiko. No comparison IMO.

 

[aftershocks]

^^ Of course. Akiko was so amazing, and such a delightful performer. I was not comparing what Mirai did at 2012-13 NHK to what Akiko and Mao did. I was simply comparing the later and current Mirai with where she was at in that NHK performance.

Mirai definitely needs help with engaging more with the music and the audience. I only pointed out that I don't think it's a lack of ability to express herself musically as much as it is her over-focus on mentally thinking about the technical side, which only became worse as her career progressed.

 

[mtnskater]

On the contrary,I think our chances for 3 spots increases with Starr being named to the team.

-BB

I like Starr, so I hope you are right. I was blown away though by how good Amber Glenn was in practice and warm-ups at US Nationals. Tara saw those practices too and was raving about her on TV. She has Gracie Gold level of jump talent though hasn't really been able to show it in competition thus far. Great upside potential if she gets it together. Too bad because Junior Worlds is a great opportunity. She seems to not really be that focused one her competitive career at times. Perplexing!! I hope Starr can seize the moment!

p.s. This thread needs to be named the Mirai Nagasu thread. She sure has fans!!

 

[aftershocks]

Cross-posting from Ambitious Ash thread these reflections in response to @Amantide's Ashley challenge.

... Despite Canadian fed clout behind her 110%, Kaetlyn Osmond never seems to get over the hump of her inconsistencies. By this point, I'm rooting for Gabby Daleman, some of the up-and-coming Japanese ladies, and Ambitious Ash Swag trying to show newbie U.S. ladies how to get their competitive fire on. I still shake my head over the often gaudy and histrionic packaging faux pas of most Russian ladies, but the main thing to admire about them is their relative reliability and competitive grit. Wilting wallflowers will make no headway in Helsinki! Where's Polina when she actually might be needed?!

Come on, Karen. Transform into Quiet Assassin mode. Come on, Mariah, smile like Jackie Kennedy and show some fierce warrior and blade magician skills like Lucy Liu!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9h7qLUbjQs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a92q4LmLdU8

Oh, and here again is the Sunset Boulevard program idea I have been floating for Medvedeva somewhat seriously and somewhat tongue-in-cheek. It's definitely a valid suggestion for the Olympic season. @AxelAnnie thinks Ash Wagner could slam dunk this! ITA!

Gloria Swanson in the Norma Desmond "I'm ready for my close-up!" role:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RdCaf22UyQ

Here's the dramatic Sunset Boulevard soundtrack:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HaLJTffT-g

Of course Glenn Close is now starring on Broadway in a Sunset Boulevard revival.

 

[AxelAnnie]

^^^^ and I will give my same response. Love it! But I think Ashley should grab this music. Can you see ASH with "Just one look"?

 

[Bellanca]

Akiko was so amazing, and such a delightful performer.

 

[Sylvia]

Clip of Alexia Paganini (5th in Junior at Nationals) going for a quad Salchow in practice: https://www.instagram.com/p/BRZT9h7g_lS/

 

[Sylvia]

I was blown away though by how good Amber Glenn was in practice and warm-ups at US Nationals. ... She has Gracie Gold level of jump talent though hasn't really been able to show it in competition thus far.

@mtnskater, Amber Glenn's competition highlight internationally this season was at December 2016 Golden Spin of Zagreb where she received the 3rd highest ISU SB score so far by a U.S. lady (67.93), #15 on SB list - link to a fan cam (jumps were 3Lz+3T, 'tano 3F, 2A): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYjKjX62IIA

She seems to not really be that focused one her competitive career at times.

Glenn's current coaches, Peter and Darlene Cain, spoke about her improvements with them in the past year in the latest "Ice Talk" podcast (episode #22), mentioning that she has been doing more off-ice training, met with a sports psychologist, and is learning not to let mistakes in programs affect her as much as before. She turned 17 this past October and hopefully will continue to make progress both on and off the ice next season.

p.s. This thread needs to be named the Mirai Nagasu thread. She sure has fans!!

Since you last posted, a new GSD thread was started yesterday to discuss the latest Mirai article: Nagasu targets clean triple axel for Olympic season

 

[mtnskater]

@mtnskater, Amber Glenn's competition highlight internationally this season was at December 2016 Golden Spin of Zagreb where she received the 3rd highest ISU SB score so far by a U.S. lady (67.93), #15 on SB list - link to a fan cam (jumps were 3Lz+3T, 'tano 3F, 2A): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYjKjX62IIA

This is exactly why I was really excited about her competing at Junior Worlds because she has such high upside potential if she hits. Oh well. I hope her coaches can help her really get it together....and soon.

Thanks for the info. Sylvia! As always you are so helpful.

 

[Cleo1782]

Unofficial word is Nathan and Amber have broken up and they "liam firus" her out of JW because she was a disaster at the camp. so those are the personal reasons I suppose. Word is she probably will not be around next year. Source has always been fairly reliable.

 

[Vagabond]

I suppose respect for personal privacy is out of the question.

 

[AxelAnnie]

I Would say so. I don't know what a Liam Faris is...break ups are upsetting.... But to leave skating.
Odd.

 

[Frida80]

I Would say so. I don't know what a Liam Faris is...break ups are upsetting.... But to leave skating.
Odd.

Liam Faris qualified for worlds last year to represent canada, but they sent Nam Nyugen instead. That's what the post is referring to.

I don't believe any of it though. It sounds like gossip with no founding.

 

[mtnskater]

Unofficial word is Nathan and Amber have broken up and they "liam firus" her out of JW because she was a disaster at the camp. so those are the personal reasons I suppose. Word is she probably will not be around next year. Source has always been fairly reliable.

Break ups at that age can seem like the end of the world. But if Amber was skating that badly then I'm glad Starr is going instead. Such a bummer to see talent not realized. I hope she is back next year though.

 

[Cleo1782]

I Would say so. I don't know what a Liam Faris is...break ups are upsetting.... But to leave skating.
Odd.

It's too late to edit my post, but I should have stated that may have been one of her personal reasons not the sole. She may be back. I do stand by what was told to me about them breaking up and her having a very poor outing at the camp and that is why she is not going. Best of luck to both of them. My sources tend to be very reliable and you can look back at my previous posts to see this. I only give out info if I get permission from the source and they are trustworthy.

Let's get back to Mirai and her triple axel folks

 

[Vagabond]

@Cleo1782 Unless your source was Amber Glenn, getting permission from your source wasn't sufficient.

 

[Cleo1782]

@Cleo1782 Unless your source was Amber Glenn, getting permission from your source wasn't sufficient.

Then don't worry about it I am not.

 

[Skateparent]

Unofficial word is Nathan and Amber have broken up and they "liam firus" her out of JW because she was a disaster at the camp. so those are the personal reasons I suppose. Word is she probably will not be around next year. Source has always been fairly reliable.

That's such a shame! She is a talent that is hard to get. I hope she will get it over and would love to see her rebound in the next season!

 

[vesperholly]

Liam Faris qualified for worlds last year to represent canada, but they sent Nam Nyugen instead. That's what the post is referring to.

Liam "gracefully withdrew" from Worlds, citing Nguyen's better potential to place high and win 3 spots for Canadian men. But there were rumors that Skate Canada pushed him to do it, and it spectacularly backfired on them.

 

[aftershocks]

I'm so sorry to hear that @Cleo1782, about Amber and Nathan breaking up. Since I know you have excellent insider sources, I don't question what you mentioned. Plus I realize you are responding to speculation brought up earlier in this thread. Young love is just that, young love. It's hard when splits happen as teenagers, but it's also usually inevitable when they each are in a demanding sport and have so much life in front of them. Of course, even without being high level athletes, teenage relationships are difficult to be long-lasting. I hope Amber and Nathan both hold on to the happy memories they shared together and the support that they gave to each other through their early career ups and downs (and also eventually realize that they can remain friends without being in a relationship).

This is likely a very difficult time for Amber. I hope she realizes that it's possible to regroup and to not make hasty decisions about her skating career at this moment. I know that Ashley Cain is a great friend and mentor to Amber, and I hope that Ash as well as Amber's other friends and family can help her through this difficult time in a way that has her coming out on the other side with spit and vinegar, and so much the better for having gone through yet another trial by fire. You are wonderful Amber! Believe in yourself and your talent! You are so young, beautiful and extremely talented. No matter what decisions you make going forward in your life, you have miles and miles to go with so many wonderful possibilities to uncover! Keep the faith!

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Liam "gracefully withdrew" from Worlds, citing Nguyen's better potential to place high and win 3 spots for Canadian men. But there were rumors that Skate Canada pushed him to do it, and it spectacularly backfired on them.

Wow, that was pretty messy, considering how poorly Nam was skating all season.
Liam really deserved to go, and as I recall, won a Senior B the weekend before Boston worlds, too.

I hope the USFSA isn't left eggy - faced overlooking Nagasu's great skate at Four Continents. In future, that event really should be used as the qualifying competition for worlds.

 

[Xela M]

Break ups at that age can seem like the end of the world.

Break ups at any age can seem like the end of the world

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Break ups at any age can seem like the end of the world

Ben & Jerry still won't speak to me after I was caught cheating with Sara Lee.

 

[Sylvia]

I hope the USFSA isn't left eggy - faced overlooking Nagasu's great skate at Four Continents. In future, that event really should be used as the qualifying competition for worlds.

Excerpt from a new Nagasu article posted in this thread: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/in...-clean-triple-axel-for-olympic-season.100805/

But a disappointing free skate at the 2017 U.S. Figure Skating Championships in January dropped her from second place after the short to fourth place overall, costing her a spot on the world team.

"Maybe the month of February is a better month for me than January," said Nagasu, who won a silver medal at Four Continents last season. "At nationals, I was well trained and I knew I was capable of a performance like the one I did at Four Continents, but I let a little bit of pressure and expectations get the best of me. At Four Continents, I knew it was going to be the last competition of the season. There was no pressure."

 

[Sylvia]

I ... would love to see her [Amber Glenn] rebound in the next season!

So would I. She has a really good team around her at the rink AFAIK and I believe they have her best interests at heart, both on and off the ice.

 

[aftershocks]

Break ups at any age can seem like the end of the world

Indeed, speaking from experience, such is life.

But OTOH, teenagers don't have mature life perspective and thus everything that happens to them often seems larger than life, and depending upon individual circumstances, at tender ages, they really can't see past the moment. So what seems like the end of the world, really can become a hyper-ventilating end of the world moment that requires a lot of support from friends and family. Sure devastation and depression from any kind of loss is true at any age, but I must say, especially for teenagers who lack the perspective that more life experience can bring.

 

[Bellanca]

Frank Carroll, to work with Tessa Hong, again? Hmmm, not a surprise, and this could make things very interesting, indeed.

I do believe the fight for the 1, 2, or 3 Olympic spots will be much more intense and competitive than people realize. No one is a sure thing.