Mass Shooting at LGBT Nightclub in Orlando

[AYS]

WHEN will we get an assault rifle ban back in place? Assault rifles are appropriate for the MILITARY, nobody else.

And why do so many people not see this.

 

[Wyliefan]

And I've yet to hear for someone calling for something to be classified as Christian terrorism.

Haven't you? I have.

 

[snoopy]

Haven't you? I have.

I have but it's usually not Christians wanting to use the phase Christian terrorism. The same way Muslims are loathe to call anything Islamic terrorism.

 

[skatesindreams]

Very informative article about the Pulse nightclub:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/12/us/orlando-pulse-nightclub/index.html

 

[caseyedwards]

And why do so many people not see this.

The next one must include confiscation of ones already manufactured and owned. No more grandfather clauses.

 

[IceAlisa]

Sickening

 

[nlloyd]

I am not sure if there is a desire to downplay the extent of homophobia in both mainstream and radical Islam.

As of now it seems that this attack was an act of ISIS-related terrorism that specifically targeted the gay community, and so can also be considered a hate crime... but not a hate crime *rather than* terrorism.

I don't think anyone can, at this point of the investigation, know whether the shooter was predominantly motivated by ISIS beliefs and just happened to choose the gay community as his target, whether he was homophobic and espoused ISIS as an afterthought, or whether there was some more complex relationship between his religion, ISIS affiliation, and this hate crime.

It is really important to avoid a simplistic analysis in my opinion. If the shooter claimed allegiance to ISIS and if ISIS claims responsibility for this, it doesn't mean that the two were working closely together. It is not difficult for lone ranger terrorists to claim affiliation with organizations that have never hear of them and nor is it difficult for those organizations to then take responsibility. Why is this an important distinction? Because if this was not a coordinated attack on the part of ISIS, representing it as "ISIS terrorist activity" is a form of fear-mongering and fear-mongering can be put to many nefarious ends. The idea that this is primarily an "ISIS terrorist attack" can also eclipse the real victims of this mass murder -- LGBTQ people -- and deter a closer examination of homophobia and hate-crimes against LGBTQ people.

A further point that needs teasing out is your notion of the extent of homophobia in "mainstream" Islam. What evidence do you have for this? I could just as easily say that homophobia was "mainstream" in Christian evangelicalism (and I speak as a former evangelical). Would you agree with that? Would you feel it necessary to address it as vigorously as you are addressing "mainstream Islam"? Would you view mainstream evangelical homophobia as leading to this sort of hate crime as easily as you view it happening in Islam. I think there are many in the LGBTQ community who would argue that there is a fairly close relationship between 1) religious notions of homosexuality as sinful, 2) homophobia, and 3) hate crimes and that the latter often take place within the context of the former without the overt exhortations to violence that you cite. I agree with the last-mentioned, but think the relationship between the three factors it is a little more complex.

 

[Buzz]

The first four victims have been identified. May they rest in peace.
http://www.people.com/article/orlando-nightclub-shootings-website-identifies-victims

 

[Vash01]

I can't imagine what the families of the victims must be going through. May they find the strength to handle this difficult situation.

 

[cocotaffy]

This is truly devastating. This past 8 months have been just horrible. All this hatred ... We may not know exactly what were the motivations behind this horrific attack but as John Oliver accurately summarized after the Paris attack, we know one thing for sure, it was carried out by an a..hole. One gigantic a..hole full of hatred.

 

[PRlady]

Isis has been urging individuals to go out and shoot infidel citizens "in their name without asking permission" and just pledging allegiance to them before starting the action. In honor of Ramadan, those sick fcucks.

That is what they think happened here. According to his ex, the shooter wasn't even religious.

 

[Tinami Amori]

And why do so many people not see this.

Assault rifles in private use is a subject on its own.

But a hate crime, if one has such intent to commit, can be planned and implemented by other means...

In Dec. 2015, in Sydney, Australia @ Arrows Gay club, a similar incident took place, without an assault rifle, but with an over-the-counter rather small King Cobra/38.
Milad Bin Ahmad-Shah Al-Ahmadzai, purchased it and learned how to use it on-line.
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/extremist-convicted-of-gay-sex-club-shooting-20160303-gna9q6.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ng-life-shot-outside-gay-sex-club-Sydney.html

Last Summer, 2015, at a San Francisco Gay Pride Parade, few teenagers were shooting using illegal street guns....
"A bystander has been shot when teenagers arguing at a crowded gay pride event in San Francisco's Civic Center Plaza drew guns, police said."
http://www.people.com/article/san-francisco-gay-pride-weekend-shooting
https://www.rt.com/usa/270208-san-francisco-shooting-gay/

Attacks on another group does not require guns...... Homophobic Attacks up by 33% in London.
http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2015/09/07/homophobic-attacks-up-by-a-third-in-london/
and in elsewhere....
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-rise-in-homophobic-hate-crimes-a6692991.html

"15 Brutal Attacks That Show Anti-LGBT Hate Is Still Very Real"
http://www.advocate.com/crime/2015/01/06/15-brutal-attacks-show-anti-lgbt-hate-still-very-real
"...When the man entered he began yelling antigay slurs and attacked Pope in the stairwell with a hammer."

Attack on Gay couple in NY with a wooden chair...
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...e-attack-gay-men-restaurant-article-1.2649756

Setting a Seattle gay night-club on fire with 750 people inside...
https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2015/08/10/arson-hits-gay-nightclub-seattle-third-time

If a group or a person wants to cause harm to another group/person, they will find the way, or at least attempt to find the way. You can not outlaw automobiles which can be driven into crowds, or various objects and liquids/chemicals which can be turned into explosive devises, or other house-hold items which can be used for murders.

Something must change, by laws or else, to prevent/prohibit/discourage people from getting involved in and judging personal choices of others which do not affect them "on the head or on the pocket". Some kind of harsh law about "live, and let live, and mind your own business".... but i have no idea how to do it, other than to pass a harsh law "if the man is not peeing in your back yard, don't bother him".

 

[skatesindreams]

Isis has been urging individuals to go out and shoot infidel citizens "in their name without asking permission" and just pledging allegiance to them before starting the action.

That is what I meant about ISIS "taking credit" whether they were directly responsible for the action, or not.

 

[once_upon]

Another tragic post of the event...investigators are having to block out the sounds cell phones (presumably desperate family and friends trying to locate thier loved ones)

 

[WildRose]

If a group or a person wants to cause harm to another group/person, they will find the way, or at least attempt to find the way. You can not outlaw automobiles which can be driven into crowds, or various objects and liquids/chemicals which can be turned into explosive devises, or other house-hold items which can be used for murders.

But you can outlaw automatic assault weapons, which is why every civilized nation in the world has done so. As a Canadian, watching our neighbours to the south go through this again and again is like watching a close friend spiral into drug addiction or alcoholism. It's sad, and heartbreaking and above all frustrating because there is nothing you can do about it until they admit they have a problem.

 

[skipaway]

President Obama said this was a terrorist act and a hate attack. He was very controlled in his statement. He stuck to the facts but it was easy to see that he was seething that this has happened.

11 Days Ago

A truly amazing and nuanced response to a responsible gun owner.

 

[AYS]

They're starting to release the names of victims, as families are being notified:
http://www.cityoforlando.net/blog/victims/

 

[allezfred]

How many more people have to die before something is done about gun control in the U.S.?

 

[Prancer]

I think there are many in the LGBTQ community who would argue that there is a fairly close relationship between 1) religious notions of homosexuality as sinful, 2) homophobia, and 3) hate crimes and that the latter often take place within the context of the former without the overt exhortations to violence that you cite.

Something like this, for example: At precisely 7 a.m. Sunday Dan Patrick tweeted a photo with the words of Galatians 6:7. The verse reads, "Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows."

If someone is looking for justification in the name of Christianity, there it is.

Man with weapons and explosives identified, 'wanted to harm' L.A. gay pride parade, chief says No one knows yet what motivated this guy. But I will bet that if he turns out to have connections to ISIS or any relation to Islam, there will be much hand wringing over the inherent evil of Islam; if not, the whole thing will probably just fade away without a whole lot of interest, whether he is a Christian or a homophobe or both or neither.

That is what I meant about ISIS "taking credit" whether they were directly responsible for the action, or not.

ISIS wants people in the US to believe that it has foot soldiers everywhere and that none of us are safe, so I wouldn't think that they would be too picky about claiming any terrorist who would be willing to claim them as well.

 

[twinsissv]

No. In the U.S. you do not need to be a security guard to get an assault rifle. Bill Clinton signed an assault weapons ban into law, but it expired over ten years ago and Obama has not been able to get it reenacted. Background checks for firearms are not even required if you buy your gun at gun shows. And there is not much regulation on high capacity magazines either.

Thanks. I was wondering why cable coverage was stating that because he was a security guard he had an assault rifle. My mouth dropped open when the correspondent said that. I asked myself if they're issuing AR-15 Rifles to security guards now?

 

[skatesindreams]

ISIS wants people in the US to believe that it has foot soldiers everywhere and that none of us are safe, so I wouldn't think that they would be too picky about claiming any terrorist who would be willing to claim them as well.

I'm sure this is true.

 

[twinsissv]

How many more people have to die before something is done about gun control in the U.S.?

Unfortunately...many...many...many...many more.

 

[Yazmeen]

My take on this is that ISIS happily signed to "being responsible" once they heard the guy pledged allegiance to them.

And the Islamaphobes in this country are also quickly signing on to it to it being an absolute act of "radical Islam." One of my conservative friends posted on Facebook asking us to pray for "the victims of the "hate-filled ISIS shooting."

 

[AYS]

In my view, pointing out that other methods can be used for mass killings, be they terrorist attacks, hate crimes, or both, is a deflection. It's like saying we should addressing mental health issues, not guns. No. We need to do both and more.

The show Hamilton announced they won't use their musket props in tonight's performance at the Tony awards.

 

[HeatherC]

What horrific and tragic news to wake up to today. My heart is so sad. Praying for the victims, their families, and everyone else who's been touched by this tragedy.

 

[skatingfan5]

How many more people have to die before something is done about gun control in the U.S.?

Too many, I'm afraid. This horrific tragedy won't be the last. I don't understand how anyone can argue for their right to own assault rifles. Lack of one probably wouldn't have deterred Omar Mateen from his attack, but it likely would have meant less carnage. My thoughts are with the families of the victims and those injured and the first responders.

 

[Sparks]

Seabrooks identified him as James Howell of Indiana. A Facebook page for someone with the same name in Indiana shows a young man posing next to a white Acura similar to the one found in Santa Monica with the weapons and explosives.

The suspect in California.
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-gay-pride-la-weapons-20160612-snap-story.html

 

[caseyedwards]

But you can outlaw automatic assault weapons, which is why every civilized nation in the world has done so. As a Canadian, watching our neighbours to the south go through this again and again is like watching a close friend spiral into drug addiction or alcoholism. It's sad, and heartbreaking and above all frustrating because there is nothing you can do about it until they admit they have a problem.

They could pass a law but the law would likely have to list all the mechanical parts of a banned weapon then the gun manufacturers will change the mechanics so that they can still sell them. The demand for Aaw's would be so extraordinary it would just be a money maker of an extreme degree. So what really has to be done is much more about shutting down gun shops and going to repealing the second amendment.

 

[twinsissv]

I can't imagine what the families of the victims must be going through. May they find the strength to handle this difficult situation.

Your words and sentiments are beautiful and must be a great comfort to the families...but...I can't help but wonder how many more times we will read (hear, tweet, type, say or think about) these very same words?
...BECOMING TOO FREQUENT...JUST TOO FREQUENT. TOO MANY FAMILIES AND FAR TOO MANY TEARS.

CONGRESS?

 

[LilJen]

The next one must include confiscation of ones already manufactured and owned. No more grandfather clauses.

That will just invoke another round of "THEY <Obama or Hillary or even Trump> want to take away ALL our guns!" Although I don't disagree with the idea (of confiscating civilian assault weapons) in principle.

The suspect in California.
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-gay-pride-la-weapons-20160612-snap-story.html

Hanging my head in shame for Indiana.

The poor families. What hell to go through.