ISU confirms more positive doping tests

[Rock2]

It reminds me the cultures where they stone women for infidelity without even bothering to investigate whether there actually was infidelity. There is so many unknown, not enough research to support anything definitive, but those sportsmen are already convicted? Sad!

My understanding is that this drug had been on the WADA watch list for quite some time...years, I believe.
I feel pretty comfortable that much was understood about the drug and its use before it went on the banned list.

Just did a quick google search on 'meldonium half life' and came across this message board of people discussing what substances they take to enhance athletic performance. I'm not saying this board is an authority but a poster named CFC who is a moderator posted that the half life is 5 hours. So every 5 hours half the drug is gone from your system.
In 48 hours, you have 1 mg left of a 500mg dose which should fall below a reasonable testing threshold.
Sounds kind of normal MOA (mechanism of action) to me.

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/771993-PEDs-for-endurance-Meldonium

So I'm willing to believe anyone who tested positive took it fairly close to drug testing date. Like, real close.

And certainly, advising people in September is stupid amounts of notice to get it cleared from your system before Jan 1.

The game here -- unless you're Sharapova -- seems to be to throw any crap against the wall in hopes that it casts doubt that blatant violations are really happening. I'm buying none of that kind of activity so far. Grasping at straws.

 

[hanca]

My understanding is that this drug had been on the WADA watch list for quite some time...years, I believe.
I feel pretty comfortable that much was understood about the drug and its use before it went on the banned list.

Just did a quick google search on 'meldonium half life' and came across this message board of people discussing what substances they take to enhance athletic performance. I'm not saying this board is an authority but a poster named CFC who is a moderator posted that the half life is 5 hours. So every 5 hours half the drug is gone from your system.
In 48 hours, you have 1 mg left of a 500mg dose which should fall below a reasonable testing threshold.
Sounds kind of normal MOA (mechanism of action) to me.

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/771993-PEDs-for-endurance-Meldonium

So I'm willing to believe anyone who tested positive took it fairly close to drug testing date. Like, real close.

And certainly, advising people in September is stupid amounts of notice to get it cleared from your system before Jan 1.

The game here -- unless you're Sharapova -- seems to be to throw any crap against the wall in hopes that it casts doubt that blatant violations are really happening. I'm buying none of that kind of activity so far. Grasping at straws.

But does it prove anything that it has been on the WADA watch list? Hundreds of drugs may be on their watch list. Yet it doesn't mean that they will all be banned. And caffeine is probably on their watch list too. It doesn't mean that they will stop drinking coffee. Not unless it gets banned.

 

[Dave of the North]

producer of meldonium send a request to WADA to exclude it form banned substance, sends data and research evidence of its use.

http://tass.ru/en/sport/861435

looks like they will all go out for it to be excluded from banned substance
also if this doesnt get excluded, meldodnium owner plans to sue WADA

So did they just do this now, since all the positive tests have been announced, or have they been working on this since September when WADA announced they were going to ban the drug?

 

[Moustaffask8r]

Well, for years people have been saying that another scandal was required to put skating on the map again. Perhaps this is it?

I don't think this will do it...
Probably the opposite !

 

[Coco]

I take flexeril (muscle relaxant aka cyclobenzeprine) as a sleep aid. It is the best sleeping pill ever, no side effects with the low dosage required for this off label use.

Arrest me and take me away!

And I'm guessing that someone along the distribution chain repackaged this stuff as something not banned by WADA. Perhaps some who are testing positive took it intentionally, but I think others may be legit accidents.

 

[Susan M]

Even though i'd rather not see any figure skaters fail doping tests, I'm praying to the skate gods that a Russian lady isn't involved in all of this...

In one of the Bobrova articles , someone was quoted as saying there were no other positives from that event. He said this as though the absence of other positives somehow supported Bobrova's sabotage theory, though I didn't see why. It is possible this person did not really know, especially if the other athletes have not been named pending B sample results.

I understand(ish) the skating cases, but Sharapova's case is beyond my comprehension. She had too much at stake to take doping from a Russian family doctor. Is her medical team not American?! Can't she afford more sophisticated drugs?

The "I didn't check the WADA list" excuse is beyond ridiculous for someone who is now at risk of losing over £100mio

I thought Sharipova's explanation was that she has taken the drug for 10 years for bona fide medical need (in which case the WADA "theraputic use exemption" could have applied). She said her doctor had been giving her mildronate (aka meldonium) for 10 years after she frequently became sick, had irregular EKG results, a magnesium deficiency, and a family history of diabetes. So, basically, she argues her mistake was not in taking the drug, but in failing to list it on her TEU paperwork.

Yeah, the Sharapova find is especially puzzling to me. I mean, she has lived and trained in the U.S. since (I think) 1994, and this drug is not available in the U.S., how was she obtaining a regular prescription of this? And could there be further penalties if she was bringing it into the U.S.?

Good question. Visitors are allowed to bring prescription medicines into the country for personal use, but I don't know how this applies to drugs that are not legal here. Was she in the US when this sample was taken?

 

[marbri]

I don't think this will do it...
Probably the opposite !

You are probably right. I watch Canadian news and every time I'm watching and this is mentioned Sharapova is the story. Have not once heard Bobrova or figure skating mentioned. It's possible she has been mentioned but I personally haven't heard a word uttered regarding her or the sport.

 

[aftershocks]

It reminds me the cultures where they stone women for infidelity without even bothering to investigate whether there actually was infidelity. There is so many unknown, not enough research to support anything definitive, but those sportsmen are already convicted? Sad!

It's not just about women athletes though. I posted in the Bobrova/Solviev thread a positive hopeful take re if the drug is so helpful in a physically rehabilitative way, why then wasn't there advocacy for its use above board equally for all athletes for restorative purposes post high level physical exertion? I think the answer is that if there are serious clinical reasons for an athlete to use the drug, then there should be channels/ procedures in place to allow for appropriate approved use. The problem is that the drug clearly was adopted for use among athletes (I'm not specifically finger-pointing Bobrova) for performance enhancing/ quick recovery purposes that pose a questionable advantage.

The other concern mentioned earlier is that Meldonium is known to have been used to mask other illegal drugs. Also, the fact that the drug was placed on the monitoring list in 2014 raises all kinds of WTF were they thinking by continuing to use it without considering the available fact that it was being monitored with the possible reality of soon being banned!!! Why not get ahead of the curve responsibly? As an athlete (male or female), if you are taking any drugs, it is your responsibility to stay up-to-date on everything and anything to do with whatever drug you are taking.

 

[Sylvia]

The other concern mentioned earlier is that Meldonium is known to have been used to mask other illegal drugs.

Is this a known fact or just a supposition at this point?

 

[MacMadame]

Plus, whether or not it should be banned is a separate from the fact that it was banned and athletes have given test samples that tested positive for the banned substance.

Absolutely.

But does it prove anything that it has been on the WADA watch list? Hundreds of drugs may be on their watch list. Yet it doesn't mean that they will all be banned. And caffeine is probably on their watch list too. It doesn't mean that they will stop drinking coffee. Not unless it gets banned.

Caffeine is currently on the watch list. So is nicotine, btw.

https://wada-main-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/resources/files/wada-2015-monitoring-program-en.pdf

 

[aftershocks]

Is this a known fact or just a supposition at this point?

I read it in this thread, and there's obviously a lot of unsubstantiated discussion going on here. I don't know the source of the claim with everything coming so hot and heavy. I don't see the specific reference in the recently linked NYTimes article. Hopefully, with all the sudden huge scrutiny on Meldonium, the known facts will be fully revealed and documented asap.

...

Oh, and you'd be surprised (although I'm not) at the number of people who take medications their doctor prescribes for them without many questions at all; because we are still somewhat of a patriarchal society in the land of medicine, and most people assume that a doctor knows what they are talking about, and is right. So it is indeed possible that some of these people simply trusted the physician treating them. Innocent until proven guilty and all....

I'm not one of such people either. Oh boy, ask questions, get second opinions, read labels, research what is known about substances contained in any prescribed drug, be knowledgeable about side-effects and possible holistic alternatives. If you are an athlete in this day and age, be responsible about drug-taking, period.

Did not any figure skating athlete currently taking drugs of any kind notice what happened to Carolina Kostner for merely being associated with/ accused of lying for a suspected illegal drug-taking athlete/ former boyfriend? The fact Carolina was later exonerated and her suspension lifted does not take away from the serious wake-up call that episode should have provided.

 

[Lacey]

Just posted on NY Times: more than 60 athletes tested positive for this --http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/03/11/sports/tennis/maria-sharapova-racket-sponsor-head-failed-drug-test.html?_r=0

And btw the aide to Putin who died of a "heart attack" in a DC hotel room in November was found to have died from blunt force trauma to the head. What a surprise.

Whoa to the first, and wow to the second.

Unfortunately, it seems that some might have fought the first sample and are waiting for the "B."

And, why weren't the police in DC involved with this aide to Putin?

Link to Christopher Clarey's article: More Than 60 Athletes Have Tested Positive for Meldonium

More than sixty. Yes, that is a lot.

 

[caseyedwards]

So putin killed someone in the United States. What's the United States going to do about it? A lot of nothing like the dumb magnitsky acts?

 

[Sylvia]

So putin killed someone in the United States.

Could we move this discussion to PI, please? http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/index.php?threads/russia.94054/page-7#post-4735483

Re. meldonium as a possible masking agent:

I read it in this thread, and there's obviously a lot of unsubstantiated discussion going on here. I don't know the source of the claim with everything coming so hot and heavy. I don't see the specific reference in the recently linked NYTimes article. Hopefully, with all the sudden huge scrutiny on Meldonium, the known facts will be fully revealed and documented asap.

I just wanted to point out that I have yet to read an article that states this as fact. If anyone can provide a source link, please do.

Link to a NYT article (eta: published March 10 online & March 11 in print): Effects of Meldonium on Athletes Are Hazy
Excerpts:

Meldonium appears to work by inhibiting the synthesis of a substance called carnitine, which the cells in the body need in order to burn fat to produce energy. But when cells are not getting enough oxygen, they can switch to burning glucose instead of fat. Glucose produces more energy for a given amount of oxygen than fat. <snip> ...
That might also, in theory, suggest why the drug would help athletes. At maximum exertion, their cells might not be getting enough oxygen. Use of the drug might help switch the cells to burning glucose instead.

“In general, if one is involved in short-duration, sprint-type activity, one tends to use glucose because it is more available and it is an efficient way to generate energy quickly,” said Dr. Eric Brass, a professor of medicine at U.C.L.A. who has studied the effects of carnitine.
Still, Brass said it was not clear if that was what was really happening in athletes. “The science behind many of these performance-enhancing compounds is limited, biased and subject to misinterpretation,” he said. Several of the studies on meldonium were done on rats and published only in Russian.

 

[overedge]

Reputation? Credibility? Being able to stay in business? The poster mentioned that this was in 70s, during time of socialism. I don't think that those things you mentioned were at the top of agenda during socialism.

Reputation and being able to stay in business would be pretty important for most businesses no matter what economic system they were operating under. Reputation is important to a business regardless of whether it's serving its own profit goals or serving society as a whole.

 

[overedge]

But that's just it. We know nothing for sure, once we have actual data, we can make conclusions. Even the doctor quoted above has no data to back him up. It's all theoretical.

There are data - the positive tests for the banned substance(s). Regardless of how the substances got there.

 

[barbarafan]

I would like to see how many medals and titles you would bring home if you took whatever drugs Armstrong or Sharapova were taking. Even if an ordinary person injected himself with an elephant dose of doping, he would still never be able to even come within the same stratosphere of the results those incredible athletes have achieved through a life of incredible hard work and unbelievable sacrifice.

True...when you look at us...However when you look at other incredible athletes working incrediably hard and having unbelievable sacrifices but not doping and therefore not cheating,,,it is not fair.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Caffeine is currently on the watch list. So is nicotine, btw.

Skaters and ballet dancers are screwed: coffee and cigarettes are two of their four food groups.

 

[fan]

Skaters and ballet dancers are screwed: coffee and cigarettes are two of their four food groups.

What are the other 2??

 

[Kasey]

alcohol and air?

 

[PRlady]

Probably lettuce and almonds.

From a PR standpoint, the banning of one ice dancer only known to dance fans isn't going to affect skating's image one way or the other. If half the Russian team ends up suspended, that's a story, but more about Russia than skating.

 

[kwanfan1818]

I was going to say "water and air," but yours is better @Kasey!

 

[el henry]

With no more than five minutes' research online, I found this on the WADA site, dated September 16, 2015: (click "summary of modifications")

https://www.wada-ama.org/en/media/news/2015-09/wada-publishes-2016-prohibited-list

"Summary of Major Modifications and Explanatory Notes
SUBSTANCES AND METHODS PROHIBITED AT ALL TIMES (IN- AND OUT-OF- COMPETITION)
PROHIBITED SUBSTANCES
S2: Peptide hormones, Growth Factors, Related Substances and Mimetics  Leuprorelin replaced triptorelin as a more universal example of a chorionic
gonadotrophin and luteinizing hormone-releasing factor.
S4. Hormone and Metabolic Modulators
Insulin-mimetics were added to the List to include all insulin-receptor
agonists.
Meldonium (Mildronate) was added because of evidence of its use by athletes
with the intention of enhancing performance."

If I am an athlete, and my participation in my sport depends on my knowing the drugs on this list, I would know it. And abide by it. And if 83 million other people where I lived thought the items on the list were mother's milk and took it every day, too bad. I would still abide by it. And if I thought it was the worst idea ever and only out to shaft my next-door neighbors/town/country/whatever, too bad, I would still abide by it. And if Reese's peanut butter cups were on the watch list, just showing how nasty and horrible and ridiculous that watch list is, too bad, I would still abide by it.

Five minutes on the internet. There is no excuse. And if it was a team, rather than the athlete, that team should be dismissed. But the athlete pays the price.

 

[Habs]

You are probably right. I watch Canadian news and every time I'm watching and this is mentioned Sharapova is the story. Have not once heard Bobrova or figure skating mentioned. It's possible she has been mentioned but I personally haven't heard a word uttered regarding her or the sport.

Bobrova was mentioned during a story on CBC National the other night. They showed a clip of them from the Olympics.

 

[Rock2]

But does it prove anything that it has been on the WADA watch list? Hundreds of drugs may be on their watch list. Yet it doesn't mean that they will all be banned. And caffeine is probably on their watch list too. It doesn't mean that they will stop drinking coffee. Not unless it gets banned.

???
I guess I wasn't clear.
My point is if it's on the watch list WADA must have studied it and got some data and evidence to point them to banning it. I don't think it's a random decision. Just like it's not a random decision to not ban caffeine. It's based on a number of things, including data, mechanism of action in the body and product information.

I was responding to the suggestion that we are crucifying violators when we don't know all that much about the drug. I'm saying there are people who do..and it's the people to put it on the banned list.

 

[Deleted member 40371]

Probably lettuce and almonds.

From a PR standpoint, the banning of one ice dancer only known to dance fans isn't going to affect skating's image one way or the other. If half the Russian team ends up suspended, that's a story, but more about Russia than skating.

Are you not dual citizen of US and Israel?

 

[BittyBug]

If I am an athlete, and my participation in my sport depends on my knowing the drugs on this list, I would know it. And abide by it. And if 83 million other people where I lived thought the items on the list were mother's milk and took it every day, too bad. I would still abide by it. And if I thought it was the worst idea ever and only out to shaft my next-door neighbors/town/country/whatever, too bad, I would still abide by it. And if Reese's peanut butter cups were on the watch list, just showing how nasty and horrible and ridiculous that watch list is, too bad, I would still abide by it.

Five minutes on the internet. There is no excuse. And if it was a team, rather than the athlete, that team should be dismissed. But the athlete pays the price.

Well it seems that a whole lot of athletes think differently.

Article: Sharapova is Not the Only Player Paying Little Attention to Antidoping Emails

No one interviewed could recall an experience comparable to Sharapova’s, in which a longtime legal medication they took was banned.

Scott Clark, a Chicago-based doctor who works with four American players on the ATP Tour, said he “wouldn’t typically” check continually on a substance that a player had already been taking for a while.

“The list we get is difficult to read and comprehend, even as a doctor,” Clark said.

 

[StitchMonkey]

What are the other 2??

alcohol and air?

Ice and Vodka are my votes.

 

[MacMadame]

Being on the watch list does not mean the substance in question is banned. So there is no reason to care about the watch list if all you care about is what you can and cannot take, @el henry. Caring about the banned list is another story. All athletes need to care about that even if all that means is they have someone on their team who cares.

------
Re the over 60 athletes: Personally, I think that so many athletes testing positive means something is wrong with the system. Either their test is giving lots of false positives or this drug stays in your system much longer than was originally thought and a bunch of athletes who took the drug in 2015 but not 2016 are going to be punished even though they didn't break any rules.

I also read the WADA document as to why this drug was moved from the watch list onto the banned list and I have to say I am not overly impressed with their reasoning. Basically, they are banning it because a lot of athletes use it. Not because it's proven effective or proven harmful.

 

[Vash01]

Being on the watch list does not mean the substance in question is banned. So there is no reason to care about the watch list if all you care about is what you can and cannot take, @el henry. Caring about the banned list is another story. All athletes need to care about that even if all that means is they have someone on their team who cares.

------
Re the over 60 athletes: Personally, I think that so many athletes testing positive means something is wrong with the system. Either their test is giving lots of false positives or this drug stays in your system much longer than was originally thought and a bunch of athletes who took the drug in 2015 but not 2016 are going to be punished even though they didn't break any rules.

I also read the WADA document as to why this drug was moved from the watch list onto the banned list and I have to say I am not overly impressed with their reasoning. Basically, they are banning it because a lot of athletes use it. Not because it's proven effective or proven harmful.

I agree. Such a large number of athletes failing the test for this particular drug suggests that something may be wrong. Typically you see just a few athletes failing it. I hope there will be a full investigation of this and the innocents will be reinstated.