Bobrova and Soloviev out of Worlds

[Loves_Shizuka]

In all honesty though, I never thought B&S had it to begin with, they had solid results but no "spark"...

I don't think anyone has ever really suggested they have major star power, but they are Russia's no.1 team - best/only chance for a medal - so naturally it hurts Russian ID fans to see them in this situation.

 

[Lara]

Horrible price to pay but athletes need to be responsible. I can't imagine what they must be feeling and I'm especially sorry for Dmitri after all his rehab from injury.

 

[VGThuy]

This is really sad news. Bobrova was really looking forward to Worlds and was posting very nice and positive messages to the 4CC competitors (congratulating the Shibs and them sharing messages of seeing each other in Boston for example) only for the rug to be pulled from under her in this manner. I get that people need to take responsibility for their actions, but that doesn't make it any less sad for me in this case. I really feel for Dmitri as well.

 

[Katha]

John and Tiffany are eligible and will be competing at more high profile events starting next season. Not only that but Stepanova/Bukin are a very decent team. The problem is not the lack of good teams, but lack of star power which we have grown accustomed to from Russian ice dance. In all honesty though, I never thought B&S had it to begin with...

Yeah, I don't think lack of potential is a problem in Russian dance. It's lack of brilliance and you can't just force that. I/K had the potential, but they came with issues that have been discussed to death and then some. I/Z are struggling now, but they started strong and may improve with their coaching change. S/K have improved a lot from last year. What's even more important IMO is that Viktoria has started to develop some performance ability, though it still needs to get better. Her being mostly a non-entity like in their first year would have severely hampered them going forward, now their prospects look brighter. Both teams still suffer or will perhaps always suffer from one partner being (much) stronger than the other, but they may close the gap between partners enough to get competitive with the top teams?

I don't care for S/B or their style, but they seem like hard workers, reasonably dependable and have improved somewhat in the last few years. Z/G have potential. Y/M struggled, but perhaps they'll rally again. Various junior teams look promising as well, though the transition to senior level is tough and you never know who will survive it.

 

[Coco]

Devastated for them and Zhulin/Volkov as I don't believe she would intentionally cheat. With 'bribe' culture being what it is in Russia, it is not unfathomable that someone would pay the doctor to add this to her injection at Euros. This basically ends their career because in light of the track and field doping shenanigans Russia is accused of, WADA will not cut a Russian athlete a break and Russian Fed will hardly use what little goodwill exists to fight for leniency for a bronze-at-best ice dance team.

 

[Coquelicot14]

Devastated for them and Zhulin/Volkov as I don't believe she would intentionally cheat. With 'bribe' culture being what it is in Russia, it is not unfathomable that someone would pay the doctor to add this to her injection at Euros.

Who exactly are you accusing and of what? If you are making statements like this you need to have some facts to back it up. Otherwise keep them to yourself,and don't start rumors.

Sorry, I have no sympathy to people who make up stories.

 

[Sylvia]

I can't say I'm surprised, but it's interesting how some people are ready to crucify over a drug that was LEGAL until January of THIS year. How many of your favorite athletes were taking it up until then?
I'm not saying she is excused, but "Cheaters" really? Over something that JUST became banned?

My post right before yours indicated there was a 3-month warning window re. meldonium being added to WADA's 2016 Banned List.

Regardless, I'm very sorry for both Bobrova and Soloviev that this has happened.

The news has hit the wire services in English via the Associated Press: http://www.bigstory.ap.org/article/...n-ice-dancer-bobrova-fails-doping-test-report
ETA: I missed that the AP article was posted by Garr. earlier, oops.

 

[altai_rose]

Who exactly are you accusing and of what? If you are making statements like this you need to have some facts to back it up. Otherwise keep them to yourself,and don't start rumors.

Sorry, I have no sympathy to people who make up stories.

I don't think Coco was pointing the finger at any specific person. Rather, it's just a tentative guess that's framed in a non-accusatory way ('not unfathomable').

Sorry, I have no sympathy to people who are defensive and dictate what others can or cannot post.

 

[Cachoo]

Looks like it's legal in Russia (according to Wiki) and according to google translate of the article, it was added to the banned substances by WADA only recently (January 2016)

removed message

 

[Coquelicot14]

My post right before yours indicated there was a 3-month warning window re. meldonium being added to WADA's 2016 Banned List.

Regardless, I'm very sorry for both Bobrova and Soloviev that this has happened.

I saw that. As I mentioned in my post this doesn't excuse her, my post is rather made to those that are screaming "cheaters" since the item was very much legal until recently.

 

[Coquelicot14]

I don't think Coco was pointing the finger at any specific person. Rather, it's just a tentative guess that's framed in a non-accusatory way ('not unfathomable').

Sorry, I have no sympathy to people who are defensive and dictate what others can or cannot post.

Making up stories makes one liable for slander. It's just a fact of life. I believe accusing people without evidence is completely unacceptable.
I defended no one, just asked for evidence.

 

[Cachoo]

Here is the Associated Press article, in English:

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/top-russian-ice-dancer-bobrova-fails-doping-test-37460112

It says Bobrova reported to the media that she failed a doping test after Europeans, and the substance was meldonium, a heart drug that used to be popular as a sport "supplement" in Russia and the former Soviet countries, and which was banned as of January 1. She said she was very surprised, because she'd been careful of what she took, and was aware that this drug was banned.

The article doesn't talk about anything beyond this.

Well this sucks. Is there any sort of appeals process? Or can the powers that be look at some sort of timeline since the ban just went into effect? This isn't track and field which is littered with abusers of all types all over the world.

 

[MsZem]

Making up stories makes one liable for slander. It's just a fact of life. I believe accusing people without evidence is completely unacceptable.

That only works if you accuse an actual person of something they didn't do. Which Coco didn't.

 

[Alilou]

Does that mean Elena/Ruslan will replace them? or is it too late?
Since when Meldronate is a "muscle/sports" drug? It's a "business meeting" enhancement LEGAL medicine/drug, blood flow to the brain, etc......

She took meldonium not meldronate. According to Wiki it's a different drug.

 

[GarrAargHrumph]

I don't know what Probe B is. Does it mean taking the test again, and she refused to take it?

From what I read (and it was in Russian, so those who have better Russian should correct me if I am wrong), she decided not to give the second sample because she (thought she) knew she was clean, so it wouldn't be needed. It's not that she refused.

 

[Coquelicot14]

Zemgirl, She insinuated that the doctor took a bribe due to "bribe culture".
None of it is factual. It's very easy for rumors like this to ruin someone's reputation, but not so easy to fix.

 

[millyskate]

Making up stories makes one liable for slander. It's just a fact of life. I believe accusing people without evidence is completely unacceptable.
I defended no one, just asked for evidence.

Looking for possible explanations other than deliberate guilt in this case is perfectly legitimate. Bobrova could have come out with the defense "I didn't realise it was on the banned list" but what she's saying actually comes across as far more honest: she admits taking it until the fall, and also admits receiving injections during Euros.


As with all doping cases backed up only with a positive test, everything is speculation. Suggesting Bobrova was deliberately taking the substance is also "accusing without evidence". There was nothing wrong with Coco's post.

 

[Eladola]

So what's the protocol if an athlete who claims to have been operating in good faith wanted to sue a doctor,
Or a coach who assigned him a doctor that supposedly robbed him\her of their career and reputation ?

 

[DaveRocks]

On NBC's facebook page, they provide a picture of B/S, but underneath they caption it with "Yekaterina Bobrova and Nikita Katsalapov will miss worlds."

 

[MsZem]

Zemgirl, She insinuated that the doctor took a bribe due to "bribe culture".
None of it is factual. It's very easy for rumors like this to ruin someone's reputation, but not so easy to fix.

That is not what Coco's post suggested; it was brought up as a hypothetical. At no point did Coco state that any doctor was bribed or name anyone who may have tried to bribe him.

I'll save my sympathy for Bobrova and Soloviev at this point. It sucks to have your career end like this.

So what's the protocol if an athlete who claims to have been operating in good faith wanted to sue a doctor,
Or a coach who assigned him a doctor that robbed him\her of their career and reputation ?

This is basically what happened to Andreea Răducan in Sydney 2000. The doctor was banned, but she was still stripped of her OGM. I don't think she sued anyone, though.

 

[Erin]

I saw that. As I mentioned in my post this doesn't excuse her, my post is rather made to those that are screaming "cheaters" since the item was very much legal until recently.

Just because it was legal doesn't mean it should have been. Unfortunately, the anti-doping agencies and the testers have always been several steps behind the athletes and the teams that surround them. Sometimes it takes a while to catch up on what athletes are taking and what should be banned. Based on the posts in this thread by people with medical knowledge, sounds like banning it was the right answer.

 

[Eladola]

I bet clean Russian athletes are so pissed every time incidents like this one bring them back to a defensive point.

 

[rhapsody]

This is basically what happened to Andreea Răducan in Sydney 2000. The doctor was banned, but she was still stripped of her OGM. I don't think she sued anyone, though.

No she didn't. The drug she tested positive for was also unbanned the year after she was stripped of the OGM, but I think it was added back to the list after 2010.

 

[Erin]

This is basically what happened to Andreea Răducan in Sydney 2000. The doctor was banned, but she was still stripped of her OGM. I don't think she sued anyone, though.

I don't recall any suing either. I did feel sorry for Raducan given that she was a minor at the time and that her smaller size meant that she tested positive while teammate Simona Amanar was OK with the same dosage of the drug.

I'm on the fence as to whether to feel sympathy for Bobrova or not...it does suck that this is the way their career will end and I've always liked Bobrova, but I also agree with the point that athletes have to be responsible for what goes into their body and it certainly sounds like this drug has performance enhancing effects. I feel more sympathy for Soloviev given the effect it has on him.

 

[Lara]

Dmitri on Instagram (if anyone can translate outside Google it'd be appreciated)
https://www.instagram.com/p/BCqKsNjnWcx/

 

[Alilou]

Well this is google translate - it's not too bad for google

Let's all support Kate !!! I am confident and convinced that Kate could not allow such mistakes cancer !!! Especially after what we have gone through together after the Olympics !!! God sees everything from above, and let the punishment be those who try to close our mouth just so dirty ways, not in the arena ice palaces in a fair fight. I know Kate in no way to blame and we will not surrender, we will prove everything. We are stronger than you think ..

 

[Tinami Amori]

She took meldonium not meldronate. According to Wiki it's a different drug.

It's a same thing.....


TRANSLATION " - https://www.instagram.com/p/BCqKsNjnWcx/
Let's all support Katya! I am sure and convinced she could not have made such gross mistake, especially after what we've been through after the Olympics. God sees all, and let him punish all who is trying to bring us down with such dirty methods, instead of a fair competition out on the ice. I know Katya is not guilty, we will not give up easily and we will prove it. We are stronger than you think....

 

[MsZem]

I'm on the fence as to whether to feel sympathy for Bobrova or not...it does suck that this is the way their career will end and I've always liked Bobrova, but I also agree with the point that athletes have to be responsible for what goes into their body and it certainly sounds like this drug has performance enhancing effects. I feel more sympathy for Soloviev given the effect it has on him.

I realize that my approach diverges from WADA's and that of many people's, but I don't think the performance enhancing nature of a substance is reason enough to ban it. Plenty of perfectly legal substances and treatments can enhance performance. As far as I'm concerned, the criterion for banning substances should be whether or not they are hazardous to an unacceptable degree.

But even if one does take a harder line on doping than I do, I think it's still possible to feel for Bobrova. People make mistakes, and in this case, it's a mistake that hurts only her and her partner (well, and their fans, but that's not the same level of investment).

 

[skaterboi]

I'll say I'm not surprised. Russia being allowed to participate in Rio is already in question with the last doping scandal and here is yet another one. Although Bobrova says she stopped taking the drug when is was announced it would be banned on Jan 1, she still tested positive for it. Did she knowingly take it or did a team "doctor" give it to her without her knowing, I don't know, but it appears to me Russian athletes and/or the Russian Federation have no problem with cheating. Its part of their culture.

 

[BittyBug]

Every athlete is responsible for knowing every substance they put into their bodies, even those administered by someone else. I'm sorry this had to happen to a talented team at this point in the Olympic cycle, but it is her own fault. Period. At the very least, she and her team should have checked into what those injections she was getting at competition were before just taking them.

I find this to be exceptionally harsh. As a patient, I place my trust in my physician. When my doc says she is giving me a flu shot, I trust her that it is in fact a flu shot and accept the injection. I do not ask to see the vial, inspect the label and research to confirm that it appears legitimate.

We are talking about Ekaterina Bobrova, the young lady who took the Mercedes she received as a reward for her performance in Sochi, sold it and donated the money to charity. Of course anyone could theoretically succumb to the pressure to cheat, but Bobrova strikes me as someone of character, and it is completely believable to me that she could have been duped, or doped as it were.

It's also entirely possible that the substance may have been given to her by mistake. Let's say for example that the team had supplements prepared prior to the ban that included this newly banned drug. It's possible that the formula was updated to remove this drug and that a vial of the old mixture was inadvertently used. Mistakes like this - wrong meds - happen ALL THE TIME, even with the best doctors in places with the highest medical standards.

Of course it's also entirely possible that it was used intentionally by her physician. But mistakes do happen, and in this case I will give the benefit of the doubt to Bobrova, someone who has always demonstrated only the most gracious sportsmanship during her career.