Gymnastics News #15

Ellie impressed me big-time at this competition, poths has been saying it for what seems like years but I can definitely see an Amanar and a 15 on floor in Rio. For floor she just needs to upgrade the 2 1/2 to a front full afterwards, maybe a piked full-in to end. She competed really well, especially after prelims. I'm calling the GB Olympic team as Downie1, Downie2, Tinkler, Fragapane, and Lyons. Ruby Harold alternate. Vault has 3 DTY's (maybe an Amanar from Ellie), I'm expecting an upgraded 14.8+ bar routine from Lyons, a great floor lineup, and a formidable beam if Lyons looks great. I also predict Ellie will develop into the best gymnast in Europe post-Rio (with many world medals by the time she's done). It would be amazing if Beth came back.. I'd bring her instead of Lyons for bars.
 
Ellie impressed me big-time at this competition, poths has been saying it for what seems like years but I can definitely see an Amanar and a 15 on floor in Rio. For floor she just needs to upgrade the 2 1/2 to a front full afterwards, maybe a piked full-in to end. She competed really well, especially after prelims. I'm calling the GB Olympic team as Downie1, Downie2, Tinkler, Fragapane, and Lyons. Ruby Harold alternate. Vault has 3 DTY's (maybe an Amanar from Ellie), I'm expecting an upgraded 14.8+ bar routine from Lyons, a great floor lineup, and a formidable beam if Lyons looks great. I also predict Ellie will develop into the best gymnast in Europe post-Rio (with many world medals by the time she's done). It would be amazing if Beth came back.. I'd bring her instead of Lyons for bars.
I'm loving that so many people have seen Ellie's capabilities and potential at these worlds. The most exciting thing about her, beyond her mental toughness, her power and her technique is the fact that she is gradually developing skills and her limits won't be reached until 2020 provided she stays injury free, which I know is a big if. The 6.0 floor only emerged about a month ago, as she was basically only getting used to the piked Arabian, which in itself was only learned after she landed the double layout short last year and wrecked her ankle. I. So impressed that she hit all of the stag out of the Arabian every time given that the entire pass is so new. She has three tumbles that land forward purely to protect that ankle. She could push her dance elements on FX too IMO. Now that Claire Starkey is no longer her coach, I think the fresh outlook is actually doing her good. I'm only disappointed she didn't do her Patterson dismount on beam as she has that in her locker and just hoping she can clean up her bars and find consistency there.

Last year YOF gals of Seda, Jurca, Flavia, Ellieand Wang all competed well here.

Regarding the Brit team for next year, I'm starting to wonder if Frags is vulnerable. Tyeshia Mattis training the Amanar, has the hardest Brit beam, won the Brits in Bars and has a double double on floor. If she can score a 14 on floor, I don't see how she could be left off. I'd take Lyons every time if she remains consistent on beam and has that incredible execution on floor. She'll probably have a DTY too and 6.0 bars. You have to feel sorry for Ruby who has made three world AA and Bars finals in a row but is probably destined to be the Olympic reserve....

I'm calling Downie x2, Lyons, Tinkler & Mattis with Fragapane and Harrold as reserves.
3 Amanars from Downie, Mattis, Tinkler
Downies and Mattis on bars
Lyons, Mattis and a Downie on beam
Ellie, Amy, Mattis Lyons

I may be overestimating Tyesha's potential however.
 
Where has Lyons competed? I don't recall ever seeing her before. I'm guessing she's just up from juniors? I don't know Mattis either. :slinkaway
 
The reason Komova doesn't get the benefit of the doubt (from me at least) is because she's a quitter with a bad attitude. 2011 Worlds she wasn't exactly a paragon of consistency although IMO she should have won but her AA beam was a wobblefest and her FX nothing to write home about so it was hard to be too outraged. I was no fan of Weiber's but she fought (key word here) and held on when her bars started to go awry then came back fighting.

2012 we saw what she's all about on that vault. She didn't fight with every fibre of her being to keep it on the mat, the one time it was really important that she did. Had she done that she'd be the AA champion. I do credit her with coming back strongly in that one instance and for pulling out the best FX of her life when she needed it most. But too little too late; she'd already sabotaged herself. After that she pouted and sulked her way through errors in the EF's instead of taking advantage of those wonderful opportunities to win herself an Olympic title.

And then we fast forward to this years TF. That 'fall' on her arabian was an absolute disgrace. She didn't even try. You can see on the slo mo that once she wobbled initially she just lets go of her core and literally jumps off. Contrast that with Biles' amazing save in AA (or going back to Nastia in 2006 with that amazing handstand exit from her acro series :respec:). Those girls gave a shit. Komova just doesn't.

This is where her attitude really showed its true colours. Instead of looking in the mirror and acknowledging that she didn't do her job, she blamed everyone else and this time it's bitten her in the ass. It's so obvious that she believes, because she has the best form, she should win despite the errors; that her E-score should somehow be enough to make up for it. Basically that it all be handed to her on a plate. No fight required. That is what is wrong with Komova. As a fan of gymnastics, I'd like nothing better than to see her on top of the podium. When it works her gymnastics is glorious!! Like yesterday - of course she should have won the gold outright in the UB final. But after all that's gone before it's hard to be that bothered for her really. Girl needs a complete attitude U-turn. If she's able to realise that she still has to fight for it, despite all the natural gifts she has, and show some respect for the girls who have only a fraction of her talent but work infinitely harder and have a drive for success she could only dream of at this point; well then she might have a chance.

All this is JMO obviously ;)
You're right that Komova doesn't fight as much as she should. But the problem is that she is not rewarded for the things that she does exceptionally well. She has gymnastics qualities that are 1 of a kind in the current gymnastics world. It's very easy to have a good attitude when everything appears to go your way. But for Komova -- silver at Worlds AA, silver at Olys AA, 1 out of 4 tied gold medals -- it's never gone her way in her entire career! And, it's hard to be positive when you know that you *have* worked very hard on your form, your lines, your carriage, your toepoint -- and you're never going to be rewarded by the judges for any of those qualities in the scores. For example, I think Biles' toepoint is horrible compared to Komova's, but that makes absolutely 0% difference in the scoring...

In short, I agree with you that she could improve her attitude -- nevertheless, I do have a lot of sympathy for Komova.
 
ITA, altari_rose.

Komova illustrates how the FIG's scoring system is so lacking and bad for the sport.

ISU's COP wouldn't translate perfectly to gymnastics, as there are 4 different events and way more skills, but the concept of + and - GOE is brilliant. It drives the right behaviors by coaches and athletes (developing good technique, improving dynamics, etc.), educates the public AND rewards athletes who should be rewarded.

Komova and Kocian getting the same E score in this bar final just says everything you need to know about how gymnastics is scored.

There is such a difference between performing a skill without deduction and performing a skill brilliantly. But the current system treats them as the same.
 
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I'm sad Shang Chusong walks away without an individual medal, if only she'd made beam final....


For GB, I expect the first amanar to come from Tinkler. She has ambitious coaches who have been pacing her well, and rumour has it she's been training it for a while - no idea if that's true!
Watching the routines again on youtube, GB really was scored tough on beam and floor. Ellie only got 13.8 for what was essentially a nailed beam, and Tinkler's floor was very underscored too. At the same time, Russia was getting gifts all over the place. Since they have to significantly outperform other teams to beat them, they'll definitely need those 2 amanars!

Poths, I think maybe you're overestimating Mattis. Her form has always been hammered by the judges and she's not back training vault and floor fully yet - much less an amanar, as per latest news. Also her coaches have put a back handspring - full twisting tuck somersault in her beam. Even Iordache can't nail that consistently, and who on earth would want that being performed in team finals? Mattis has only landed it once in competition afaik.

Lyons has potential on UB but has always been very inconsistent in competition. Fragapane, Becky Downie, Ruby and Lyons will be fighting for 3 spots, it will be interesting to see how this one turns out. Lyons' DTY has been progressing and she could likely outscore Fragapane; on floor she can go 14+ and on beam she's also capable of 14+. So Claudia may be the one at risk.
 
He qualifies to Rio with the option of doing the AA in qualifications.

When Epke Zonderland qualified for London because the Dutch team didn't make it, he had the ability to do the AA, but only did the PB and HB.

Excellent news. I was concerned that he might have an off day at the test event or worse injure himself there. Now he has qualified outright for Rio Larduet can focus on that.
 
He qualifies to Rio with the option of doing the AA in qualifications.

When Epke Zonderland qualified for London because the Dutch team didn't make it, he had the ability to do the AA, but only did the PB and HB.

A more accurate comparison would be Alexander Shatilov from Israel who qualified for 2012 by winning a bronze medal on floor in 2011. He competed all six events in 2012 (and actually placed 12th in the AA final; he did not compete at the test event; his teammate Felix Aronovich did and also qualified for the Olympics). Zonderland did not qualify for 2012 by winning a medal in 2011; as Netherlands had only two entries for the 2012 test event, he had to compete all six events there to qualify a spot for his country, which he did.

So Larduet should be set to do the all-around in Rio, and now Cuba could earn a second MAG spot if they use their test event berth and send a different gymnast.
 
Where has Lyons competed? I don't recall ever seeing her before. I'm guessing she's just up from juniors? I don't know Mattis either. :slinkaway
Catherine Lyons - Beam
Catherne Lyons - Floor to win Gold at Euro Juniors 2014 (ahead of Downie, Tinkler, Jurca, Tutkhalyan)
Cats Floor from this year
Upgraded Bars (with a splat)


Mattis was agreat Junior in 2013, injured 2014 and most of this year.
Mattis Beam - Gold at Nationals 2015
Mattis Bars - Gold at nationals 2015
Mattis Floor 2014 (with double double, & Full in- fugly form though)
 
I suspect that potential to win an individual medal rather than constructing the most well balanced team will come into consideration for GB, because the more event finals made & the more medals won, the higher the UK Sport funding will be for the next Olympic cycle.

The bronze was an amazing achievement here, but you'd expect Russia to not be such a hot mess in an Olympic year, so there are other areas where you'd look to boost the overall medal count. Realistically, our best medal shots are Becky on UB (if she starts hitting her routine again...), and Ellie in AA & maybe floor if she can continue with the upgrades. Then Claudia is in with a good shout to make floor finals & Ruby for bars - that counts for UK Sport's evaluation, even though they're unlikely to win medals.

Unless they can do something miraculous that will get them in the conversation for an AA medal, the thing that will help Lyons, Mattis or Tinkler get on the team is to show exceptional ability on one apparatus rather than a solid but unspectacular contribution across all four. Lyons is probably the closest at the moment with her beam.
 
Well, I do miss the days of "if you don't stick, you don't win" and "one big bobble means you are not on the podium." Body type no longer gets the benefit of the doubt -- difficulty does. The sport is so oriented toward difficulty that someone like Biles can hop and bobble and still win handily. The problem with Komova for me is that if she makes a mistake, she shuffles her feet one more time than necessary, drops off the apparatus, or lets down her posture so it looks for a moment like she's just at practice, not in competition. That seems to incur more deductions than someone fighting to stay on the apparatus, fighting for landings, etc.

That said, I saw more far form breaks from everyone else on UB than from Komova. I don't get how Kocian ties Komova in E score. If the judges can't see, they need to change the angle. I can reserve judgment on Fan and Spiridonova who had more difficulty to offset the form breaks, but Komova would have won that set alone in the olden days. She was smiling and laughing so I guess she finally decided it is ok if you can't beat 'em as long as you join 'em.

Regarding the feet, I much prefer the Komova line, but Biles could not point her feet like that no matter how hard she tried. Her feet are flat; she does not have big insteps. With the focus on sheer difficulty, the judges just aren't giving points for the "international look" like they used to do. Not an improvement to me, but it is the direction the sport has taken.
 
Actually, there are contraptions to improve toe point. I have watched vid of the ballet dancer Miko Fogarty using them because she did not have a naturally good toe point. It looked painful. But it's irrelevant if toe point is not valued.
 
A more accurate comparison would be Alexander Shatilov from Israel who qualified for 2012 by winning a bronze medal on floor in 2011. He competed all six events in 2012 (and actually placed 12th in the AA final; he did not compete at the test event; his teammate Felix Aronovich did and also qualified for the Olympics). Zonderland did not qualify for 2012 by winning a medal in 2011; as Netherlands had only two entries for the 2012 test event, he had to compete all six events there to qualify a spot for his country, which he did.

So Larduet should be set to do the all-around in Rio, and now Cuba could earn a second MAG spot if they use their test event berth and send a different gymnast.

Perfect! An even better example that I didn't even remember!

The most important thing though is that Manrique IS HEADED TO RIO!!! :cheer2:
 
Ah, yes, foot stretchers -- one of the reasons I have had Os Trigonum, FHL tendonitis and tears, Achilles tendonitis and tears from overcompressing my left ankle. I have one very bendy foot with a big arch and instep and one tighter/flatter foot without enough bend in the talus region. I pretty much destroyed the left one trying to make it look like the right one. Foot stretchers can do more harm than good, especially in the youngsters.
 
So Larduet should be set to do the all-around in Rio, and now Cuba could earn a second MAG spot if they use their test event berth and send a different gymnast.

If I understand correctly, the all-around spots are not nominative, so does it have to be a different gymnast sent to the test event? I.e. could Larduet go to the test event and earn an all-around spot that Cuba could use for any gymnast in addition to the spot he earned for himself from his EF medal?

I feel like the rules for Olympic qualification have gotten more and more complicated and it doesn't look like it will be any easier to follow with the new rules post-Rio.
 
Sorry I pressed send way too fast via my phone. Test event qualifiers are nominative - that means if your team finished 17-24 at worlds, the country can send two gymnasts to the test event, and only one of those two gymnasts may be named to the actual games. So Larduet could compete at the test event, but he would not be able to earn an extra spot for Cuba.

For individual qualifiers outside of the top 24 teams, whoever goes to the test event is the only gymnast for that country who would be eligible for an Olympic spot.

I think it sucks, but those are the rules.
 
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Just want to highlight the fact that Russian WAG pretty much owned Event finals despite being a trainwreck in Team finals.

Four of their Team walked away with medals, 3 Golds (Paseka, Spiro, Komova) and Afan's silver. Seda was millimeters away from a silver too, meaning that the entire team was close to going home with at least an individual silver. That is really impressive and highlights how shite they were in the TF! I reckon Mustafina will be a straight swap for Seda next year, meaning Afan will have to do beam and they'll have 4 bars workers who have a legitimate shot at the gold.

If USA lost Simone, that team title would actually be close.
 
There are also juniors like Skrypnik and Melnikova coming up in Russia who are pretty good bar workers and can be useful on other events, so it's not going to be easy for Spiridonova
 
Considering Spiridonova was only useful on bars this year, I have a hard time seeing her on an Olympic team without either big improvements on at least one event or injuries to other gymnasts.
 
Considering Spiridonova was only useful on bars this year, I have a hard time seeing her on an Olympic team without either big improvements on at least one event or injuries to other gymnasts.

Shocker of Worlds 2015... Paseka is a lock for Rio. WTF.
 
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It would all have been different if Musty were there! And all the commercials on Universal Sports said she was there, duking it out with Simone and Gabby!
 
It would all have been different if Musty were there! And all the commercials on Universal Sports said she was there, duking it out with Simone and Gabby!
Yup. It reminded me of an LPGA tournament many years ago where they put up billboards featuring Se Ri Pak even though she had told the tournament organizers months before that she wouldn't be competing.
 
Did anyone from the NBC/Universal Sports crew actually go to Glasgow? Some of the commentators acted like they were there in person, but there were never any stand-ups from the arena. I'm assuming the audio was recorded Stateside like NBC's Grand Prix coverage, but why would the commentators act like they are in the arena (I don't really think they're fooling anybody)? Unless some are in Glasgow and some are back here??
 
Well, Tim Daggett said he was staying at the same hotel as Flavia Saraiva in Gladgow, so that would imply that he went. Although you would think if he went there he would learn how to pronounce it.
 
Considering Spiridonova was only useful on bars this year, I have a hard time seeing her on an Olympic team without either big improvements on at least one event or injuries to other gymnasts.

Yeah they dont need her just for bars when Mustafina and Komova can also challenge for a medal or gold on the event, and when Paseka can post a solid routine and still gives them an extremely strong bars lineup without her. If she really upgrades on beam or floor and becomes useful there (vault seems out of the question for her) then they might take her to do bars and a 2nd event, but that is her only chance. I dont see it.
 
I know Daggett was there, he was tweeting a lot from the arena. Nastia was in the States based on her tweets... they must have done the commentary from two different continents? :confused: Either way, I have to say I MUCH prefer NBC's pre-recorded coverage vs. live. They crammed a lot of routines in and there was very minimal wasted time. Whereas a live broadcast we get about 20% gymnastics, 15% commercials, 5% fluff pieces, 15% of Al's manufactured drama, and 35% of shots of gymnasts standing around as floor music is played in the background.
 
@Fridge_Break I watched the Universal coverage. Other than Amanda's "in the bounds", I found the commentary to be pretty good. Of course, it was a bit too USAcentric, but that was to be expected.
 
@Fridge_Break I watched the Universal coverage. Other than Amanda's "in the bounds", I found the commentary to be pretty good. Of course, it was a bit too USAcentric, but that was to be expected.

She did try to curb that. I think someone may have said something. At the start of worlds she said that repeatedly. By the end it had curtailed a lot!
 

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