Misty Copeland of American Ballet Theater

[aftershocks]

Speaking of On The Town, I had the privilege of seeing it with the original 2014 cast and was blown away. I wonder if any of the ballet experts in this thread could tell me what they think of Megan Fairchild and An American in Paris's Robert Fairchild and Leanne Cope in terms of dancing technique. I thought Megan Fairchild was simply astonishing in her numerous dance numbers. I know a lot of Broadway fans are happy to hear about Misty Copeland taking over for two weeks because they think she's bringing interest into a show that quite frankly could have closed a while ago due to ticket sales. Some fans saw her in, I think, Romeo and Juliet and were very impressed with her acting.

I do think the whole discussion of ideal body types is interesting because I wonder how much of it is influenced by a resistance to change the aesthetic a bit. Some aesthetics in these subjective-based art are culturally biased. Sure there will be individuals who will cross barriers (not break them) and these standards are high for everyone, but I think they seem to be higher for some more than others, generally speaking. Maybe that's what people want and we shouldn't change anything. Of course, strict adherence to classical or traditional looks and rituals don't help with relevance, perception of elitism (that only a privileged few seem to be invited in with some exceptions), and growth as an art form.

Yep, an interesting discussion re body type concerns, even in figure skating. Clearly, there are always such discussions in figure skating, even without a focus on ethnic backgrounds. Being black is always another factor added to the mix of how you are perceived as a dancer/ figure skater regardless of whether or not your "body type" fits traditional expectations.

 

[ballettmaus]

Surely just being oneself and being confident as well as extremely talented will take anyone far in life. Being able to deal with pressures and internal and external conflicts is also very challenging for everyone as well. But particularly so in the ballet world for dancers of color.

So, what you're saying is that external and internal pressure are more challenging for a dancer of color than for a caucasian dancer? I'm not sure if that is what you mean, however, if so, why would pressure be more of a challenge to someone of color? Or do you mean that they have more pressure than a caucasian dancer? Which would have been what I was getting at - do they really? Or are we simply more aware of it because we are made aware of it. (Which by no means, is bad thing!)
Again, using Semionova as an example, all we know is that she was hired as a principal dancer at the age 17, right out of the academy. Because Malakhov saw something in her no one else had seen in her. But she spent all her years at the Bolshoi Academy, 9 or 10 years, fighting against prejudice, having to prove herself every single step of the way.

So, I'm still wondering if Copeland's path is really that different from that of caucasian dancers with the same background story. The rejection letter published with her Under Armor commercial sounds like a letter thousands of girls of any age, and color receive each year. She got into ABA within 4 years and that is impressive (and frankly, doesn't like anyone was prejudiced against her skin color. To the contrary, the obviously saw that she had tons of potential after only 4 years of ballet!). And once she was in the professional world of ballet, she had to compete against dancers who most likely had started dancing 7-8 years earlier, so, to be honest, I'm not surprised it took her that long to get to where is now. 7-8 years is a lifetime when it comes to ballet. I mean, take a look at video footage from The Prix de Lausanne, for example, take a look what dancers aged 13 are able to do and then think about Copeland and that she had just started at that age and you'll see how much she was behind everyone else. There aren't many dancers who are able to get to where Copeland ended up, many actually wouldn't even make it into a professional academy let alone a company and even less so end up a principal dancer. So, yes, in a way what she accomplished is impressive. My question is, would it have been taken notice of had she been caucasian? Because personally, I would have found it just as impressive for a caucasian dancer because, again, starting 7-8 years later is a lifetime and many never make it that far. Many who started dancing at the age of 5 actually don't make it that far.

You said Makarova used the body type of Copeland as an excuse. But how do you know that Makarova isn't prejudiced against anyone who doesn't have the right body type in her mind? From Semionova's book it sounds like the Russians have a very strong opinion on what a dancer has to look like (I mean, look at Semionova, would any of us consider her not being the right body type?), it also sounds like the Russians like to have their favorites and to be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if Makarova treated anyone who in her mind wasn't right for a role the same way she treated Copeland. Ballet, unfortunately, is about stereotypes and I think it still is very much prejudiced against anyone who doesn't have the right body type, but there are dancers of any color out there who are considered to not have the right body type.

 

[IceAlisa]

I have recently watched an interview with Maria Kotchetkova, a principal with the San Francisco Ballet and ABT. Despite winning the Prix de Lausanne & being offered a place at a company of her choice, she was only given roles of dolls and children at the Royal Ballet. Her technique is superb, her stage presence is charming so what was the problem?

Her height, or more importantly, the shortness of her limbs. She looks unbelievably tiny, I don't think she is 5 feet tall but it's the very short arms and legs that are anathema to any Russian company and most Western companies as well. She told the interviewer that she was 100% certain she would never find work in Russia.

She found a home at the San Francisco Ballet that makes a point of being inclusive. Well, I really dislike watching Maria, even though her technique is wonderful, she lacks that gorgeous long line that one expects on stage. You can tell she tries her very best to visually extend what little she had been given but it doesn't work in my opinion.

Misty's body type is unusual for ballet but that's not the problem--like others I find her technique lacking, especially for a principal. Theoretically, Misty could improve with enormous amounts of hard work with the right instructors but there isn't much Maria can do.

 

[aftershocks]

Eh no, @ballettmaus. I'm saying everyone experiences internal and external pressures, but that there are additional bias-related pressures experienced by dancers of color. If that wasn't the case, it wouldn't be an issue we would even be discussing. There would be a more diverse mix of dancers in all the top ballet companies. I mean accept the reality and get past it. That's what people who experience bias based on skin color and stereotypes have to do. Accept the reality of the prejudices that do exist, learn how to handle the bias-related situations with grace and determination and try to move forward keeping their eyes on the prize.

I think you are getting bogged down in wanting to believe that there's no difference in what dancers of color have to face and that racial prejudice in the world of ballet doesn't exist. Sadly it does exist. Trying to use the example of Caucasian ballerinas who experience a tough time based on varying body-related or political-related preferences will not change the fact that indeed, Misty's experiences have been different in terms of the historic prejudices against black females being fully accepted as ballerinas. What is it exactly that you are finding it hard to understand? Are things changing? Yes, but very slowly. Read the history, view the history as detailed in any number of documentaries, and accept the reality.

The fact that racial prejudice does exist does not mean its coming from all quarters. Again, read Misty's book. It's about a lot that is universal, as well as about being a ballerina of color trying to make it in the traditional world of ballet where she stands out as different. But being African-American is only part of who Misty is. There's a lot to her story. Simply put though, her promotion is of historic significance for a reason.

Please do be more specific about exactly what you are faulting in Misty's technique @IceAlisa. I'm quite sure that if there was something truly lacking in her technical abilities, she would not have made it to the level she has. Apparently, some wish to say that Misty experiences exactly the same problems as other dancers, while others wish to infer that she was somehow gifted with the promotion to principal dancer, despite "lacking proper technique."

BTW, Misty is not very tall, and Michaela DePrince has somewhat short arms, but IMHO, both possess absolutely superb technique.

 

[VGThuy]

I do wonder if there are other dancers of color who would think that racial bias doesn't come into play on top of everything else that makes it difficult to make it in that world. If not, I wonder if they said so openly and how many people reacted defensively or dismissed their experiences.

 

[agalisgv]

I don't think anyone is saying racial bias doesn't come into play. What I'm hearing is some critiques being levied at Copeland which are being attributed to racial bias when that may not be the case. I find Copeland to be an extremely dynamic dancer, and a treat to watch. But even I recognize there are issues with her technique. That's not a slam against her racial/ethnic heritage.

Someone who I think had a more explicit experience with racial discrimination was Precious Adams. She studied for awhile at Bolshoi, and was asked to try skin lightening creams to make her more appealing for dance roles. One thing she mentioned which I hadn't thought of was how casting an African-American challenged entire ballet productions because costuming and scenery were designed with lighter skin tones in mind, and this posed a problem for dancers with darker skin tones.

 

[aftershocks]

I do wonder if there are other dancers of color who would think that racial bias doesn't come into play on top of everything else that makes it difficult to make it in that world. If not, I wonder if they said so openly and how many people reacted defensively or dismissed their experiences.

^^ It shouldn't be hard to conduct a survey of all the black dancers still living who tried to make it in the world of ballet, especially with top companies in America. And in fact, you should go back and check out some of the links to video clips and links to articles on the topic. As I mentioned earlier, there is a description in Misty's book about when she learned that she would be dancing the leading role in The Firebird. At the time, she was at Dance Theater of Harlem taking part in a choreography workshop. During a break Misty checked her Twitter and learned she had The Firebird role, in the second cast. Misty began to cry, and when the DTH dancers asked her what was wrong and she told them why she was crying, they all began to cry too. Then all the DTH dancers embraced Misty in a group hug. Frankly, when I read that passage in Misty's book, tears welled up in my eyes too.

What exactly is it that some people here are having a hard time understanding? Once again, please read Misty's book and then come back with your questions. Or maybe it won't make any difference, and you will simply become more confused.

And, once again, please do share @agalisgv and @IceAlisa, exactly what it is that leads you to believe Misty's technique is lacking, when no one that I'm aware of in the world of ballet or at ABT has voiced anything about Misty lacking proper technique.

 

[IceAlisa]

You must have missed the NYT article. For one, she failed to complete the fouettés in Swan Lake.

That's a big no no.

Her épaulement is unrefined and she lacks core control. She uses her upper body for additional support when she should hold it still. Like many US trained dancers, she looks good in modern pieces but it's the big classical story ballet that exposes her weaknesses.

 

[kwanfan1818]

The rejection letter published with her Under Armor commercial sounds like a letter thousands of girls of any age, and color receive each year.

That commercial was aimed towards a general audience, and for most of whom this would be news in the context of ballet, which many think of as a fluffy, artsy endeavor, but would be recognizable from sports. It is also consistent with the "against all obstacles" marketing message of the product. It was not meant to be her autobiography.

If not, I wonder if they said so openly

In the relatively small number of interviews that black dancers are asked to do, I've never read a single black female ballet dancer say that race was not an obstacle, except at Dance Theatre of Harlem School and/or Dance Theatre of Harlem, where they said they went so that race would *not* be an issue. However, many black female ballet dancers have written and spoken about the the discrimination they have faced, and Michaela DePrince's (white adoptive) mother talked about the racism her daughter faced and the comments people thought were perfectly appropriate to say to both in the documentary "First Position" and in interviews.

But to go back, first black soloist at American Ballet Theatre, Anne Benna Sims, was interviewed in "Jet" magazine, where she was candid in an article directed to her community:

She recalled one incident where she had been turned down for a role because she was allegedly too tall. She was told that there were "still certain things I'd always be too tall for.

"Let's face it," says the dancer, "this tall thing is a euphemism. Oh I am the tallest person in the company, by an inch. Cynthia Gregory, one of ABT's stars, is one in shorter, five-feet seven inches. But Cynthia is also White."

You must have missed the NYT article. For one, she failed to complete the fouettés in Swan Lake.

That's a big no no.

The New York Times critic Alastair Macaulay wrote,

The only obvious technical feature in which Ms. Copeland can improve is the notorious — and overrated — fouetté turns. She did the first half of the usual quota, though wandering across the stage; then she did a series of quick single turns — a smart alternative since they had more musical dynamics than most accounts of the fouettés.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/26/arts/misty-copeland-debuts-as-odette-odile-in-swan-lake.html?_r=0

 

[IceAlisa]

IOW, she traveled as a skater would on their spin. As I said, technique issues.

She resorted to single turns since she failed to execute the part of choreography. Whether they are overrated is a matter of opinion (watch Gillian Murphy do them, spectacular!) but they are part of the ballet a principal is expected to be able to do.

There are other, less obvious technique issues as well.

 

[kwanfan1818]

In figure skating, an entire program is not judged on one spin.

 

[IceAlisa]

In figure skating, an entire program is not judged on one spin.

But one might say the skater has technique issues. There would be deductions.

 

[IceAlisa]

Another set of particularly awesome fouéttes, 2 sets actually! These are from DQ. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko5F4EN3Q6U

 

[kwanfan1818]

But one might say the skater has technique issues. There would be deductions.

One might say that the skater had trouble with an element. Under 6.0, the judges would decide how much that mistake was worth; under IJS it is codified, to an extent. In ballet, the extent to which you judge a dancer by her fouettes is like 6.0.

While Cohen famously blew her first two and hardest jump elements in her Torino FS, she took the hit on points there, but continued to give one of the loveliest performances of any FS of hers that I have seen. Copeland's fouette issue was half of that.

Another issue that has not been raised here is that Copeland was going to be promoted and cast or not has a context. If you look at the two female dancers who were promoted to Principal Dancer before her at ABT, Hee Seo and Isabella Boylston, both had technical issues, and in the case of Seo, substantial issues, and it was only this spring that she had the stamina to get through a full-length, although she'd been cast in them multiple times since she was a Soloist. By McKenzie's latest promotion standards, the Copeland promotion was likely late in coming.

Or these:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxT5gnXs4Ug

The chaines are even more amazing.

 

[IceAlisa]

Regardless of what you just said, an elite level skater is expected to have mastered the spin. Should I bring up the relevant IJS quotes? A principal is expected to have mastered the choreography of a ballet they are dancing. Just yesterday I watched Mayara Pineiro, a soloist at the Pennsylvania Ballet, lay down 32 solid fouettés, some of them triples, very controlled and centered.

I have not yet formed an opinion of Hee Seo but two wrongs don't make a right, if she is indeed also sub par. If stamina is a problem, she needs to fix that.

 

[kwanfan1818]

It's a good thing that Cohen wasn't tossed because of her flutz, because there's similar IJS quotes about correct edges, and had she skated today, where the technical panel is calling edges, she would have been slaughtered.

The flutz doesn't take away Cohen's excellent elements and other virtues, just as the fouettes don't erase Copeland's.

There is no perfect dancer, either: each one has her faults and weaknesses.

 

[IceAlisa]

Cohen could spin like a top.

I hope Misty can do the Rose Adagio if she ever attempts Sleeping Beauty. Do you know why Olesya was able to do it effortlessly? She has incredible core strength that is fostered in all Vaganova star grads (OK, Somova being one notable exception, to this day she looks like a spider ). Misty lacks that.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Skorik is another. The Mariinsky isn't what it used to be. Although one of the mid-century greats, Irina Kolpakova, thinks the world of Somova, as does Baryshnikov.

 

[IceAlisa]

Skorik is another. The Mariinsky isn't what it used to be.

I've seen Skorik in Swan Lake live. She did her fouettés like a good girl.

I'll take Skorik over Somova any day of the week. I can't stomach Somova.

 

[IceAlisa]

Although one of the mid-century greats, Irina Kolpakova, thinks the world of Somova, as does Baryshnikov.

And Maya Plisetskaya apparently gave Somova her own diamond earrings, plucked them right out of her own ears. Ugh. I wish she gave her enough to retire. She is very pretty and has that perfect ballet body and good feet but she is about as musical as a doorknob and seems to have slept right through her Academy training.

What in the world is that?

 

[ballettmaus]

Eh no, @ballettmaus. I'm saying everyone experiences internal and external pressures, but that there are additional bias-related pressures experienced by dancers of color. If that wasn't the case, it wouldn't be an issue we would even be discussing.

Personally, I feel that we're discussing the issue because it has been made an issue. You may or may not agree with me but I find bias against anyone an issue that needs to be discussed. If any dancer is being confronted with bias towards their body, for whatever reason, I think it needs to be addressed. Why does it matter that Copeland is African American? Is bias towards her body worse than towards Asians, Caucasians or Hispanics?

There would be a more diverse mix of dancers in all the top ballet companies. I mean accept the reality and get past it. That's what people who experience bias based on skin color and stereotypes have to do. Accept the reality of the prejudices that do exist, learn how to handle the bias-related situations with grace and determination and try to move forward keeping their eyes on the prize.

I think you are getting bogged down in wanting to believe that there's no difference in what dancers of color have to face and that racial prejudice in the world of ballet doesn't exist. Sadly it does exist.

Of course, it exists. I'm just questioning how much her late promotion had to do with the fact that she's African American and how much with the fact that she started dancing that late. I think in order to determine how much bias there truly is in the ABT we either Need a caucasian dancer who also started at the age of 13 or an African-American dancer who started at the age of 5.
What I'm not questioning is the fact that African American girls are probably discouraged from even starting ballet or are told that they don't have a chance of becoming a professional because they don't have the right body type and that's definitely wrong. No one should be judged according to their body type but according to their abilities.

Trying to use the example of Caucasian ballerinas who experience a tough time based on varying body-related or political-related preferences will not change the fact that indeed, Misty's experiences have been different in terms of the historic prejudices against black females being fully accepted as ballerinas. What is it exactly that you are finding it hard to understand?

The fact that it is implied that bias against Copeland is worse than bias against a Caucasian ballerina if they're facing the same bias - not having what is considered to be the right body type/that the bias Copeland was up against was more challenging than the bias a Caucasian ballerina was up against, again, under the assumption that it is the same bias they were/are up against.
Copeland, like DePrince are very athletic dancers whereas dancers, for the past 50, 60 years have been more ethereal. Maybe I'm naive, and maybe I'm wrong but I'm under the impression that the bias against African American dancers stems from the idea that their body type isn't right for classical ballet and for once, not from their skin color per se. And if it does, I don't see how bias against an African American dancer is any different than bias against any other kind of dancer, as I said above. We're just not made aware of bias against caucasian dancers because the majority never even graduates and probably never even gets admitted to an academy because for one of them there are probably hundreds of applicants who have what is considered a better body tpye. But how many athletically build caucasian (principal) dancers do you know? The closest to athletic principal I can think of is Osipova and she's not really athletically builds, she's just a very powerful dancer. And again, therein lies my question - how much of the obstacles Copeland faced were due to her body type/technical issues and how much truly and solely due to the fact that was African American?

That said, none of that diminishes what Copeland accomplished - starting at age 13, becoming a member of ABT after only 4 years of training, and becoming a principal is mind-blowingly impressive. I have to admit, I wish people would focus more on that though rather than the fact that she is an African American principal. I feel that her true accomplishment (becoming a principal after starting at the age of 13 even though she was/is considered not to have the right body type for classical ballet) is overshadowed by the emphasis which is put on the fact that she is an African American principal. I mean, how many principal dancers who started dancing at the age of 13 are out there dancing with world-renowned companies?

 

[Sasha'sSpins]

I first became aware of Misty Copeland a few months ago when our local stations began airing her Under Armour "I Will What I Want" commercial. I always root for the underdog. She's obviously a natural - how else could she be on pointe after just three months of ballet? Go Misty!

 

[Tesla]

What in the world is that?

I think that looks lovely.

 

[VGThuy]

I guess we can get into disparate impact. Things that seem neutral on its face, but the who it impacts isn't neutral.

 

[IceAlisa]

I think that looks lovely.

 

[ballettmaus]

My thoughts exactly!

 

[aftershocks]

OMG, not only do black people have to experience bias, now they must prove how much and to what degree it really exists in their own given situations!

Come on, @ballettmaus! Seriously, why don't you ask for a special survey to be conducted regarding to what degree racial prejudice exists at ABT and other top ballet companies. Have you yet read Misty Copeland's book, btw? If not, I doubt you are really interested in understanding anything regarding her or her ballet career. Why not start examining your own particular prejudices, fears, and assumptions. Enuf is enuf already in this thread with all this persnickety nose-in-the-air, holier-than-thou pretentiousness and preciousness about the fact of Copeland's promotion and the fact that indeed she is an excellent ballerina. If you don't like her that much, it don't really matter. A lot of people do like her very much as a dancer and a human being.

Par for the course that Copeland's technique must be carefully scrutinized to the nth degree. OTOH, this thread is probably very revealing in ways that are annoying, yet somehow unsurprising.

 

[agalisgv]

OMG, not only do black people have to experience bias, now they must prove that it even exists!

OMG, not only do you misread people's posts, you repeatedly make up a point people have told you several times is untrue

 

[aftershocks]

^^ Oh yes, go ahead and have fun with it @agalisgv. When it comes to racial issues, it's all man-made anyways, since race is a man-made concept.

 

[ballettmaus]

^^ Oh yes, go ahead and have fun with it @agalisgv. When it comes to racial issues, it's all man-made anyways, since race is a man-made concept.

In the movie "First Position" DePrince says that people say that if you're a black dancer you have "terrible feet, bad extension, you're too muscular, you're not graceful enough". There is not one word about people saying black people can't dance ballet because they're black. It is all, exclusively, about the body. It is a discriminating generalization and yes, Caucasian dancers don't face this kind of discriminating generalization, however, they, just as any other girl/woman of any skin color out there face discrimination against their body. We usually just don't hear about it. But as beautiful as ballet is, there is a reason why ballet has the reputation of causing eating disorders in girls/women. Because, just like in modeling, an image was created of how a woman should look like and ballet discriminates against anyone who doesn't fit that image. Anyone, no matter what your skin color is.

And since I feel like I'm repeating myself, which I am, that's the last I'm going to say on that matter.