Zimmerman suspended for 2 years by U.S. Center for SafeSport

[just tuned in]

Well, maybe some day the explanations for the sentences will be given. Maybe not. But until then, I’m sure posters will speak like they know every last detail and state it as fact.

Tony, it is not fair for you to condescend and criticize posters for speculating. Moreover, it is annoying that you are dangling at the same time as criticizing posters for speculating. Folks would like to have the same information you are dangling. At least I hope you have made reports to appropriate authorities of all the wrongdoings you know of.

 

[tony]

Tony, it is not fair for you to condescend and criticize posters for speculating. Moreover, it is annoying that you are dangling at the same time as criticizing posters for speculating. Folks would like to have the same information you are dangling. At least I hope you have made reports to appropriate authorities of all the wrongdoings you know of.

I’ve made it clear from the beginning, just as another poster has made clear, that it’s not either of our places to reveal such info.

That’s annoying that FSU can’t have all
the hot gossip? Well sorry about it, and give me a break about me condescending and criticizing people when, as usual, they are interpreting bits and pieces of details and stating them as the absolute final word on the matter. That’s not speculating, and I don’t see the problem in me
pointing that out.

The questions I’ve had since the beginning based on what I know are unlikely to ever be publicly addressed, but I do have a feeling that they were dealt with and that’s why the sentences were what they were. My point, in my repeated posts in this thread, is to keep in mind that hardly any details really have come out and to realize there’s usually more to a situation than what is ‘out there’.

 

[anonymoose_au]

My point, in my repeated posts in this thread, is to keep in mind that hardly any details really have come out and to realize there’s usually more to a situation than what is ‘out there’.

What so you actually believe that there's an excuse that can be given that will absolve the parties involved of wrong doing or even excuse some of their actions?

Unless it was that they were held at gunpoint and forced to send a dick pic (Morgan) and intimidate the 13 year old in question (the coaches) then there is none. I don't care if Zimmerman and Fontana think a 13 year old should be held responsible for asking for the pics. 13 year olds cannot give consent, if they don't know this they're bloody idiots and ignorance is no excuse.

If you're unable to provide the details for whatever reason, I don't see why you'd bring it up. And if it is as serious as people being threatened at gunpoint to commit crimes you should probably be reporting that to the cops and not posting here.

 

[Frau Muller]

Gee whiz. I see no problem with Tony’s simple words that perhaps there may be more to the story. It could be anything, not that it pardons what happened.

Worlds 2021 can’t come quickly enough...

 

[cholla]

What so you actually believe that there's an excuse that can be given that will absolve the parties involved of wrong doing or even excuse some of their actions?

I'm not going to answer for Tony but to me there is a big difference between a 'reason' and an 'excuse'. A reason can be a lot of things, including a simple procedure flaw or any technicality. It's also possible that detailing the reason could reveal or help to reveal the victim's identity. That must be avoided at all cost.

 

[PairSkater12345]

This depends very much on where you live. There are way more rinks in the US that have never had an elite skater and the coaches there are doing just fine.

I agree with you at the learn to skate and intermediate levels. This level is the base of the pyramid. More skaters less money.

Young skaters who want to move to competitive skating (pay more money) and gravitate to better, more experienced coaches with a reputation of developing elite skaters. Just look at the intermediate novice and junior skaters who have moved to better coaches and teams of coaches. Those camps are highly competitive and crowded with skaters who pay a lot of money. These coaches have an informal farm system from the so called "bread and butter" rinks.

 

[kwanfan1818]

A nice person does not threaten and intimidate a 13-year old.

 

[tony]

What so you actually believe that there's an excuse that can be given that will absolve the parties involved of wrong doing or even excuse some of their actions?

Unless it was that they were held at gunpoint and forced to send a dick pic (Morgan) and intimidate the 13 year old in question (the coaches) then there is none. I don't care if Zimmerman and Fontana think a 13 year old should be held responsible for asking for the pics. 13 year olds cannot give consent, if they don't know this they're bloody idiots and ignorance is no excuse.

If you're unable to provide the details for whatever reason, I don't see why you'd bring it up. And if it is as serious as people being threatened at gunpoint to commit crimes you should probably be reporting that to the cops and not posting here.

You’re usually annoying with Plushenko camp hysterics, but this takes the cake. This goes right to the top of the list of a bunch of hypotheticals or list of excuses that are way off-base. You’re adding to the list of people that thinks they have everything figured out.

Don’t tell me what must be the case.

There are other reasons as to why details cannot be fully discussed, believe it or not. And I don’t need to report anything to authorities as they already have this evidence and BROKEN RECORD: That is probably a likely reason for the sentences being what they are.

 

[PairSkater12345]

You’re usually annoying with Plushenko camp hysterics, but this takes the cake. This goes right to the top of the list of a bunch of hypotheticals or list of excuses that are way off-base. You’re adding to the list of people that thinks they have everything figured out.

Don’t tell me what must be the case.

There are other reasons as to why details cannot be fully discussed, believe it or not. And I don’t need to report anything to authorities as they already have this evidence and BROKEN RECORD: That is probably a likely reason for the sentences being what they are.

Whats a broken record? Ive heard old people use that phrase before.

 

[tony]

Whats a broken record? Ive heard old people use that phrase before.

I'm not that old, hunny. Google is always there. Have anything interesting to say?

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I’m still trying to follow the whole story and be sensitive to everyone. So the 13-year-old girl asked Morgan for his naked photo? That’s how it all started???

 

[puglover]

Recently a woman close to me confided that she had discovered that her husband was connecting with young women over the internet that he did not know, representing himself as single even though you can see his children's carseats in the background, and sharing nude pictures of himself. In addition to the pain he has inflicted on his wife, how does he know the ages of these young women? I realize that Morgan knew the age of the girl he sent his picture which certainly makes it worse but the whole concept is stupid and dangerous.

 

[Erin]

I'm probably going to regret wading into this discussion, but here goes.

I'm sure there is a lot behind the scenes that Brennan didn't report on. I'm sure John and Silvia had reasons for that they did, that Morgan had reasons for what he did. I also don't particularly care about what those reasons are.

The facts that don't seem to be in dispute are that Morgan sent the picture, and that John, Silvia, and Vinny were aware of that and didn't report it. In Florida, all adults are mandatory reporters, so they are all required to report the issue. They failed to report. The psychologist was the only one who did the responsible thing.

I'm not really sure what's left to say. I think the punishments seem weak, but I understand that there could be factors that could influence the SafeSport decision that other people have noted in the thread, like what SafeSport requirements were in place in Dec. 2017, what evidence there was around their actions, what SafeSport guidelines are for the consequences are for this situation.

And Silvia probably shouldn't make statements to the press. That statement in L'Equipe didn't make her look any better.

 

[Vagabond]

I’m still trying to follow the whole story and be sensitive to everyone. So the 13-year-old girl asked Morgan for his naked photo? That’s how it all started???

No, that's not how it all started.

It's all explained here:

Olympic figure skater, coaches being investigated for sexual abuse allegations

An underage figure skater has accused a French Olympian of sending her inappropriate photos, and alleges three coaches pressured her into being quiet.

www.usatoday.com

 

[Prancer]

I’m still trying to follow the whole story and be sensitive to everyone. So the 13-year-old girl asked Morgan for his naked photo? That’s how it all started???

Nothing happens in a vacuum, but the photo has been the center of the publicized allegations.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

No, that's not how it all started.

It's all explained here:

Olympic figure skater, coaches being investigated for sexual abuse allegations

An underage figure skater has accused a French Olympian of sending her inappropriate photos, and alleges three coaches pressured her into being quiet.

www.usatoday.com

Well actually I think my statement was correct.

I thought all this time he had been stalking or maybe had predator behavior. But the 13-year-old girl is the one that reached out to him asking for naked photos .... I guess as part of a pizza bet. Morgan, very stupidly, then sent his photos.

That Vinny character is beyond shady and should be fired and handed to the police. I’m surprised the 13-year-old girl did that. Kids have changed, I would’ve been very afraid to ask a peer yet alone an adult for Those kind of photos.

 

[Prancer]

Well actually I think my statement was correct.

I thought all this time he had been stalking or maybe had predator behavior. But the 13-year-old girl is the one that reached out to him asking for naked photos .... I guess as part of a pizza bet. Morgan, very stupidly, then sent his photos.

That Vinny character is beyond shady and should be fired and handed to the police. I’m surprised the 13-year-old girl did that. Kids have changed, I would’ve been very afraid to ask a peer yet alone an adult for Those kind of photos.

Again, nothing happens in a vacuum. I think okokok explained about as much as can be said about Vinny and his request in this post, which she posted again in this thread. And kids haven't changed; the girl didn't make the request out of nowhere and such requests are not a norm for someone her age, no more than it's been the norm for adults to respond to dick pic requests from underage girls by actually sending them.

 

[MacMadame]

Just look at the intermediate novice and junior skaters who have moved to better coaches and teams of coaches. Those camps are highly competitive and crowded with skaters who pay a lot of money. These coaches have an informal farm system from the so called "bread and butter" rinks.

Again, this depends on the area.

Where I live there are many rinks and many kids who are training for Regionals and hope to make it to Sectionals and maybe even Nationals someday. It's true that a few skaters here and there pick themselves up and move somewhere else, usually SoCal, to get a "better" coach. The vast majority do not. And the vast majority of coaches here do not have a reputation at the level you are talking about. They are still pretty busy and still make a good living. A few of them do manage to get skaters to Nationals here and there but most likely you've never heard of them or their skaters. Those coaches aren't necessarily any busier than the ones who do not get kids to Nationals nor the ones who do that and you have heard of.

Remember: Karen Chen learned to skate here and didn't move to SoCal and Tammy Gambil until she was quite successful and a known skater. The same with Alyssa Liu, who actually still trains here but with coaches with more of a history similar to John and Silvia.

Therefore, I don't believe that John and Silvia have to have elite skaters in their stable to make it as coaches. For one thing, people know they have already had that kind of success. But even if they hadn't, there are enough serious, but not known skaters who would be happy to take lessons from them and have no plans to move away to a coach with elite skaters.

 

[starrynight]

I expect the coaches would have been so obsessed with getting James/Cipres to the Olympics that all judgment and reason went straight out the window.

It's like those stories of star footballers acting like insane idiots and the whole club running after them, sending the team doctor to their house, covering up for them etc just so they can get out on the field. The kind of indulgences that wouldn't be given to other team mates.

 

[Carolla5501]

That hardly compares, those calling for Worlds to be cancelled or postponed are doing so from care and concern. Everyone in this sorry saga is thinking only of themselves and furthermore continuing to victimise this young girl.

Even if she requested dick pics of her own volition, the response is NOT to send them. If Morgan was a good person he would have ignored the request (I'm on the fence as to whether a person should report the request to a third party in case there's abuse going on in some other part of the girl's life that would have led to her making such a request).

The point is you never ever comply with the request and if you do and for some bizarre reason didn't think it was wrong at the time, you should surely realise so now, apologise unreservedly, take the punishment and perhaps get some counselling to address your issues.

It's pretty horrible that Morgan sees himself as blameless in this and worst of all no-one who is close to him seems willing to call him out on it.

If you are a mandatory reporter there’s no fence to be on, you should’ve done the right thing. End of discussion!

As stated above the correct answer is “contact authority And let them investigate to see if there is a problem.” Not to say “ I know there’s not a problem” because you’re a figure skating coach not someone qualified to judge thus mess. That’s what being a mandatory reporter is.

And the fact that neither this man or his wife felt like this was required only demonstrates how pathetic they are. And then when it did get reported they decide the thing to do was abuse the abused is just unbelievable. For that you get a slap on the wrist and told don’t do that again. Yeah that’s affective!

I wish US figure skating would do something but I know they won’t. They are going to wait until they wind up with the same kind of mess US gymnastics Federation has and then try to figure out what to do.

 

[Artistic Skaters]

I dislike the incomplete phrasing USFS is using to post these SafeSport suspensions on their website. They are using a formulaic statement that only notes general rules but not the specific reason for the suspension. This means the parents and skaters must know they need to take secondary steps to go look up the suspension on the SafeSport website in order to see a more specific reason.

This is very different compared to the posting information for the organization's grievances when criminal actions were involved. Whichever organization is requiring the postings to use this restricted wording ought to reconsider if the goal is really to provide accurate, helpful and more transparent information to skaters and parents.

 

[PairSkater12345]

Again, this depends on the area.

Where I live there are many rinks and many kids who are training for Regionals and hope to make it to Sectionals and maybe even Nationals someday. It's true that a few skaters here and there pick themselves up and move somewhere else, usually SoCal, to get a "better" coach. The vast majority do not. And the vast majority of coaches here do not have a reputation at the level you are talking about. They are still pretty busy and still make a good living. A few of them do manage to get skaters to Nationals here and there but most likely you've never heard of them or their skaters. Those coaches aren't necessarily any busier than the ones who do not get kids to Nationals nor the ones who do that and you have heard of.

Remember: Karen Chen learned to skate here and didn't move to SoCal and Tammy Gambil until she was quite successful and a known skater. The same with Alyssa Liu, who actually still trains here but with coaches with more of a history similar to John and Silvia.

Therefore, I don't believe that John and Silvia have to have elite skaters in their stable to make it as coaches. For one thing, people know they have already had that kind of success. But even if they hadn't, there are enough serious, but not known skaters who would be happy to take lessons from them and have no plans to move away to a coach with elite skaters.

 

[PairSkater12345]

I'm not that old, hunny. Google is always there. Have anything interesting to say?

Got ya! LOL My mom said you wouldn't respond. I won the bet. Ahhh I know how to use google.....lol

 

[Willin]

One of the "mitigating factors" I saw Okokok cite was that Vinny was asking the girl to request the pictures either a) because he thought it was a joke or b) he wanted evidence. Either way neither of those things is or ever should be a mitigating factor. If you think it's a joke, maybe don't joke about sexual violence and bring a 13-year-old into a "joke" about sexual violence. If you think it might true, maybe report it like you're supposed to and have the experts do the evidence-gathering instead of victimizing a 13-year-old. And, even then he messed up AGAIN by not reporting this to the police when he found out it was true and instead reported it only to people that had incentive to cover things up. So, yeah, I don't think he deserves to get off as light as he did even with the alleged "mitigating factors."

 

[Prancer]

One of the "mitigating factors" I saw Okokok cite was that Vinny was asking the girl to request the pictures either a) because he thought it was a joke or b) he wanted evidence. Either way neither of those things is or ever should be a mitigating factor.

Did someone say that they were or should be? okokok said that she thought Vinny's sentence was too light, I didn't weigh in on the subject except to say that I think all mandatory reporters should be slapped pretty hard for not reporting, and tony didn't specify which mitigating factors he was referring to. I believe he was referring to factors that haven't been reported publicly that led to light sentences all around and had nothing to do with Vinny in particular, but I can't speak for him.

There are a lot of posts, so I might have missed something.

 

[Willin]

@Prancer I was more referring to the fact that Tony was saying there was insider info that presented mitigating factors that make the sentences seem appropriate in his eyes.

 

[Prancer]

@Prancer I was more referring to the fact that Tony was saying there was insider info that presented mitigating factors that make the sentences seem appropriate in his eyes.

And as I said, I don't believe he was referring to what okokok posted (as that has been made public and so hasn't been insider information for some time now), nor was he talking about Vinny's probation specifically,, but rather all of the sanctions.

 

[Deleted member 221]

Let this be a lesson to the skating community on the meaning of the word "mandatory." I'm sure Zimmerman and Fontana feel like they've been made an example. That is exactly one of the points of the sentence. I suspect they feel that others have gotten away with far worse (and I suspect they're right about that). Again, that is one of the points of the sentence.

The sentence, at least for Zimmerman, is fair in my view. This was a gross, inexcusable lapse in judgment, unquestionably wrong. There should be punishment, but there should also be possibility for redemption. I can't support the people calling for a lifetime ban, treating one person's knowledge that someone sent else a d*ck pic to a minor the same way as another person's actual commission of rape, molestation, physical abuse, etc. against a minor (or anyone). Both are wrong, but there is a world of difference between the two.

If we want Safe Sport to work properly, we need degrees of punishment, the same way that exists in the criminal justice system. If everything is going to result in a broad-brush lifetime ban, I suspect witnesses will be more likely to remain silent and those within the sport will (continue to) view Safe Sport with skepticism and lack of trust.

This is a victory, and the punishment (at least for Zimmerman) is entirely appropriate.

 

[thvu]

Got ya! LOL My mom said you wouldn't respond. I won the bet. Ahhh I know how to use google.....lol

So patronizing, incurious, and some what illiterate - all qualities that none are surprised you possess.

 

[PairSkater12345]

So patronizing, incurious, and some what illiterate - all qualities that none are surprised you possess.

You're funny too. I'm sure you think you're smart with your high and mighty arrogance.........lol You're stuck in your ways. That makes you really old.....HA. I can still do a triple Toe. How about you?