Worlds 2025 Rhythm Dance: “I Feel Loathe”

tony said:
Look at the elements, Karen. She crawls in twizzles. A +4 is not possible. She stumbled around the corner of the pattern step. Insanely high GOE there too.

Once and for all, I don’t give a shit what the judges think they see and what level 4 they give if it’s not reality based. rewatch the skating, see what is there for every last person to see. I don’t have magic eyes or anything.
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She isn't appreciably worse in the twizzles than several other skaters in that last group, so what's your point?

I'll re-watch, but I think it would be helpful if you chatted with some judges about why they're giving that kind of GOE since you don't seem to understand it either.

The thing I take exception to is that you are always dragging on Chock/Bates worse than any other team in the top 5 and, at some point, it just seems really personal coming from you. It's hard to take you seriously with any valid critique of them in particular.
 
Karen-W said:
She isn't appreciably worse in the twizzles than several other skaters in that last group, so what's your point?

I'll re-watch, but I think it would be helpful if you chatted with some judges about why they're giving that kind of GOE since you don't seem to understand it either.

The thing I take exception to is that you are always dragging on Chock/Bates worse than any other team in the top 5 and, at some point, it just seems really personal coming from you. It's hard to take you seriously with any valid critique of them in particular.
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Because they are American and you will go into full-out meltdown mode if someone points out an American skater or team is overmarked. I’ve ranted about Guignard and Fabbri all season and their horrible skates and programs, and I want nothing more than a gold medal for them. You choose to get worked up about me pointing out Chock’s twizzles when just about everyone here who read the rulebook for 2 seconds knows it’s foolish. The pattern DID have a dicey moment, and her edges are shallow in the midline, too. The marks are way too high for what they did. 🤷🏼‍♂️

Once again, when the Russians were getting scored the way they were, everyone whined and complained for years and years across basically every discipline. But because it’s one American team.. good grief.
 
Karen-W said:
I'll re-watch, but I think it would be helpful if you chatted with some judges about why they're giving that kind of GOE since you don't seem to understand it either.

The thing I take exception to is that you are always dragging on Chock/Bates worse than any other team in the top 5 and, at some point, it just seems really personal coming from you. It's hard to take you seriously with any valid critique of them in particular.
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I’m going to put it this way:

WE HAVE. We have faced no disagreement. We have only faced looks of knowing approval, replies of agreement without saying it, (and some replies of unequivocal agreement).
 
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tony said:
Look at the elements, Karen. She crawls in twizzles. A +4 is not possible. She stumbled around the corner of the pattern step. Insanely high GOE there too.

Once and for all, I don’t give a shit what the judges think they see and what level 4 the technical panel give if it’s not reality based. rewatch the skating, see what is there for every last person to see. I don’t have magic eyes or anything.

And by the way, you’re the one constantly saying you don’t listen to opinions unless people actually attend skating competitions. So here’s my opinion that you said you wanted by actually being
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Actually, I think most of us knew what your opinion was going to be before you got to the event and before you put your fingers on the keyboard. You were going to see things that no one else saw but you I’m not surprised that you didn’t think the score is right. You see things that no judge anywhere anytime has ever seen.

And if you don’t give a shit about what the judges are saying, why are you so busy complaining about them?😂
 
tony said:
Because they are American and you will go into full-out meltdown mode if someone points out an American skater or team is overmarked. I’ve ranted about Guignard and Fabbri all season and their horrible skates. You choose to get worked up about me pointing out Chock’s twizzles when just about everyone here who read the rulebook for 2 seconds knows it’s foolish. The pattern DID have a dicey moment, and her edges are shallow in the midline, too. The marks are way too high for what they did. 🤷🏼‍♂️

Once again, when the Russians were getting scored the way they were, everyone whined and complained for years and years across basically every discipline. But because it’s one American team.. good grief.
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LMAO. You are hilarious. You've been ragging on Chock/Bates with increasing fervor each and every season since they refused to retire after 2022.

My opinion of them has nothing to do with them being American or not. Last season, I disliked their FD a lot and thought it was boring as heck - I even dozed off in the middle of it at least once, it was that bland to me. And I've criticized their RD this entire season & been the first to admit when they (or CarPon, for that matter) have skated cautiously. And, I've point-blank said that GilPoir have the best-conceived RD of this season, as well as the best FD last season.

On this day, though, ChoBat had the better performance. I'm not sure it was nearly 4 points higher than GilPoir, but I'm not surprised by it because it came on the heels of two rather tentative & cautious skates and, with a mostly friendly audience, the judges were primed to reward it a LOT.

It is clear that your personal loathing of ChoBat has colored your perceptions of them so fully that you're unable to do anything but search for & find reasons to critique them beyond measure.
 
Carolla5501 said:
Actually, I think most of us knew what your opinion was going to be before you got to the event and before you put your fingers on the keyboard. You were going to see things that no one else saw but you I’m not surprised that you didn’t think the score is right. You see things that no judge anywhere anytime has ever seen.

And if you don’t give a shit about what the judges are saying, why are you so busy complaining about them?😂
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I’m not the only one who saw it, though. There are two other people on this board who know a whole lot about ice dance rules and actual skating technique and they’ve said the same, but yes it’s just me.

Everyone else complains about every last thing here but heaven forbid not Ilia or Madi and Evan, off limits!
 
Karen-W said:
It is clear that your personal loathing of ChoBat has colored your perceptions of them so fully that you're unable to do anything but search for & find reasons to critique them beyond measure.
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Karen, all this time you do trying to check people might be better served by either opening the rulebook for the first time or actually going to competitions. And yes, I’m giving you back the energy you gave me for judging from home.

I never once said Madi and Evan shouldn’t be leading, I never once said I hated the program. I said based on the rules, the GOE of certain elements is insane. But let’s blow it all up.
 
tony said:
I’m not the only one who saw it, though. There are two other people on this board who know a whole lot about ice dance rules and actual skating technique and they’ve said the same, but yes it’s just me.

Everyone else complains about every last thing here but heaven forbid not Ilia or Madi and Evan, off limits!
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😂

Did I mention any particular skater? No and that’s because this is your consistent theme .

I pretty much know when I see a post from you during an event there’s a very good chance regardless of which discipline and what skater it’s going to be in this theme of the judges missed what you saw.
 
To be fair, skaters don't really change technique from competition to competition. I do think Tony and others have a bias against Chock and Bates, but it's based on their skating technique. I wouldn't expect his opinion to radically change from competitions to competition.

I will argue to my dying day that Meagan Duhamel and her various partners did not deserve a positive GOE on nearly anything, and that virtually all of Ashley Wagner's jumps should have had negative GOE per the rules. I know I'm in a minority and I don't care :lol:.

I'd also be the one giving Sakamoto's flutz a -3, even if not called, and Sarah Everhardt 5.5 for skating skills.

At some point, though, I just have to accept that I'm an outlier. I believe firmly in my convictions, but I realize that others see things differently. I don't see what they see, despite trying to, but I (mostly) accept that they see it and I don't.

I'm often joining tony in the minority, although I'm not re: Chock and Bates. I'm not a particular fan of theirs and don't especially like their programs, but I did think they compared favorably to the other teams at the GPF. Gilles and Poirier are the team I don't "get." I've thought Lajoie and Lagha have been better since 2022 :shuffle:.
 
Carolla5501 said:
😂

Did I mention any particular skater? No and that’s because this is your consistent theme .

I pretty much know when I see a post from you during an event there’s a very good chanceregardless of which discipline and what skater it’s going to be in this theme of the judges missed what you saw.
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Then put me on ignore? 😆

Most People here have very strong opinions about the skating, whether they’ve ever skated or not or whether they know the rules or not.
 
tony said:
I’m not the only one who saw it, though. There are two other people on this board who know a whole lot about ice dance rules and actual skating technique and they’ve said the same, but yes it’s just me.

Everyone else complains about every last thing here but heaven forbid not Ilia or Madi and Evan, off limits!
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Don't know if one of those is me but yes I also saw that moment during the pattern that Madison had and I have been aware of the twizzles each season getting less and less ice coverage and rather tentative, specially his, but in the end I know this is ice dancing with the GOE now as the PCS/Ordinals you named it we have faced before, Chock & Bates are world champions skating at home and the front runners for Gold in 2026 so what we can expect but judges going with them.

Today they were the better overall but was shocking to see 90.18 score and almost sealing the win based mostly in +GOE points that is gained often on the +GOE the judges pre empt than the actual execution

Though again, this is ice dance and we have to face it
 
thvu said:
@Braulio trying to bring in the rationality of reality to end all the drama. :drama:
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We have enough with the Falls in the penultimate group, the Turkkila/Versluis out of the free dance then IN by 0.01, Allison Reed falling and hurting not qualifying to the free dance and in jeopardy their olympic spot, what if Lithuanian Government take it back now that they see they finished 25th? Oh My!! enough drama alreadyyyy
 
MacMadame said:
Anyone else have more than 15 squares marked (fewer than 10 free)? I think they all left but if no one says anything in the next two minutes, the honor is all yours! You can even kill a different costume if you want!
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Since no one has mentioned anything I am more than happy to kill GuiFab’s costumes. They’re too hot for them and it makes me sad that that’s what they’ve been stuck with.
 
emason said:
Absolutely none of which I want to see anyone skate to.
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I love Nirvana but I don't think it's really dance party material. :D

tony said:
Everyone else complains about every last thing here but heaven forbid not Ilia or Madi and Evan, off limits!
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Okay, I was with you until you said that. People complain about Ilia all the time. And ChoBat too but mostly Chock.

When I was studying to be a judge, what I learned is that there is the rulebook and there is what judges do. :D

At the lower levels, there is a much bigger matchup between the two. And when there isn't, it's because (a) the experienced judges saw something I didn't, (b) we had different preferences, or (c) one or both of us had biases.

But the higher you go, the more the judges couldn't always explain the discrepancy. Those other situations still apply, though. It isn't always that I was right and they were wrong.

Generally, even now, if I don't understand a result and there is a judge around that I can ask, I will ask. If it's a judge actually on the panel, even better. (In that case, I don't ask them how they scored, only to explain the results to me.) Sometimes I learn things and sometimes I come away thinking it's politics even if they don't explicitly say that.
 
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