Who was Frank's 2nd favorite student of all time

[Fiero425]

They were in prime athletic shape while Chris was rather plump.

Chris had a fantastic 3A when he wasn't fat, which probably also means he was on cocaine.

https://youtu.be/FkQ7xmDvmrQ

I don't want to be accused of gossiping, but without naming names, wasn't Chris one of those boys hounded/pursued and probably sexually abused by a very well known skating coach with an Olympic champion and World medalist to his credits? Bowman was messed up from his childhood along with others who may not have been as traumatized! I give CB every break possible after such an experience!

 

[bardtoob]

Bowman was messed up from his childhood along with others who may not have been traumatized! I give CB every break possible after such an experience!

My armchair diagnosis is that he had untreated ADHD, which, as typical, was exacerbated by puberty. This goes along with him constantly seeking out pleasurable dopamine stimulating activities (ie sex, adrenaline junky activities, attention seeking activities, cocaine, etc.). I don't think Chris was abused or he probably would have told the media for some cash when at a low point.

... I bet you are referring to the FEMALE coach Christine Brennan talked about in her book. Gross! ... Probably a weird double standard ... Ewe!

 

[VGThuy]

If Kwan was embarrassing at 2005 Worlds, then what about all those skaters who placed below her? Including 2006 Olympic Champion and 2005 Worlds 9th place finisher Shizuka Arakawa?

Also, your history is a little off regarding Kwan's stress fracture on her toe. She was attempting the 3Toe/3Toe at Skate America and Skate Canada, but she injured her toe at Skate Canada. She was diagnosed with a stress fracture and had to miss the GPF. She was in a cast for weeks (possibly a month) and was only out of the cast two weeks before Nationals. She and her team had no idea how she was going to do at Nationals and I read her practices were all over the place, which is why her actual skate there was pretty amazing. Frank made the decision to replace the first 3Toe with the 3Loop/falling leaf/2Toe sequence so Kwan had two triple loops but no 3/3s. She did that at Nationals and the Olympics.

 

[Fiero425]

If Kwan was embarrassing at 2005 Worlds, then what about all those skaters who placed below her? Including 2006 Olympic Champion and 2005 Worlds 9th place finisher Shizuka Arakawa?

Also, your history is a little off regarding Kwan's stress fracture on her toe. She was attempting the 3Toe/3Toe at Skate America and Skate Canada, but she injured her toe at Skate Canada. She was diagnosed with a stress fracture and had to miss the GPF. She was in a cast for weeks (possibly a month) and was only out of the cast two weeks before Nationals. She and her team had no idea how she was going to do at Nationals and I read her practices were all over the place, which is why her actual skate there was pretty amazing. Frank made the decision to replace the first 3Toe with the 3Loop/falling leaf/2Toe sequence so Kwan had two triple loops but no 3/3s. She did that at Nationals and the Olympics.

Thanks! I'm old and senile and tend to see the worst when it came to Kwan! I was just never a fan and got tired of all the fawning and slobbering of all concerned when it came to her skating! She was the beginning and the end; truly nauseating IMO!

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Thanks! I'm old and senile and tend to see the worst when it came to Kwan! I was just never a fan and got tired of all the fawning and slobbering of all concerned when it came to her skating! She was the beginning and the end; truly nauseating IMO!

I don't mean to be indelicate...

but was there ever a worst of Michelle Kwan??? Michelle ... the chick from Torrance, CA?

Nauseating?

You comedy.

 

[bardtoob]

Thanks! I'm old and senile and tend to see the worst when it came to Kwan! I was just never a fan and got tired of all the fawning and slobbering of all concerned when it came to her skating! She was the beginning and the end; truly nauseating IMO!

She just got all the fawning because her consistency made her eminently marketable. Big sponsors could invest in her and count on her to make the World or Olympic Team.

 

[VGThuy]

Thanks! I'm old and senile and tend to see the worst when it came to Kwan! I was just never a fan and got tired of all the fawning and slobbering of all concerned when it came to her skating! She was the beginning and the end; truly nauseating IMO!

There's a perfect solution to all of that. If you truly felt Kwan was nauseating or talking about her was, then you don't have to partake in any discussion of Kwan. She's no longer competing so it's easy to avoid her.

 

[Fiero425]

She just got all the fawning because her consistency made her eminently marketable. Big sponsors could invest in her and count on her to make the World or Olympic Team.

My faves over the years were the exact opposite and as inconsistent as you could find on the ice, but they were still STARS; Irina Slutskaya, Surya Bonaly, Sasha Cohen, Alexei Urmanov, & Evgeny Plushenko! The only reason I favored Irina was because she actually broke thru that wall of consistency of Kwan's, beating her out when it counted at the end of their careers! The rest were just enjoyable to watch even if not exactly fan faves or even stroked by the TV commentators! They usually got scorn; esp. someone like Surya who didn't fit the "ice princess" façade of the tour!

 

[savchenkoboss]

One reason I am not a big fan of Michelle Kwan or Virtue & Moir is the hype around them from NA commentators and writers is so over the top it is a turn off. Hearing Dick Button or Scott Hamilton have an orgasm everytime Kwan moved a finger or had a fart, or Tracy Wilson go overboard how Virtue & Moir are way better than Torvill & Dean and the perfect epitome of all things dance, and it becomes imposible to root for them or feel attached to them. I disliked Cohen for the same reason and honestly Cohen was far worse since atleast V&M and Kwan to a lesser degree dominated and had historical records while Cohen didn't win shit and we still had to listen to people like Button, Fleming, Underhill, Martini, gush about how she was the best and most special and perfect skater ever. Sandhu was another, here in Canada it was how he was the best and most talented skater ever, how he had the most amazing lines and athletiscm ever, and outside of Can. NAT he did zilch. Atleast Cohen won World and Olympic medals (never a gold).

I started to find Yu Na Kim annoying and stopped being a fan of hers for the same reason, and if I were Asian I am sure it would be far worse. I am 100% sure the hype and godifying of her in that part of the world is even more extreme than Kwan in Canada or V&M in Canada considering the over the top gushing and insane hype machine on her in freaking North America is practically on par with them so just imagine in South Korea.

 

[alchemy void]

One reason I am not a big fan of Michelle Kwan or Virtue & Moir is the hype around them from NA commentators and writers is so over the top it is a turn off. Hearing Dick Button or Scott Hamilton have an orgasm everytime Kwan moved a finger

It’s been 20 years: time to let it go...

Kwan wasn’t one of my favorites back in the day (Butyrskaya forever!) but even I can be objective and realize *some* of her programs were masterpieces, combined with unparalleled consistency/longevity. Of course some of the commentary was effusive at times, but largely deserved.

I started to find Yu Na Kim annoying and stopped being a fan of hers for the same reason, and if I were Asian I am sure it would be far worse.

Um, I think you mean Korean.

 

[bardtoob]

One reason I am not a big fan of Michelle Kwan or Virtue & Moir is the hype around them from NA commentators and writers is so over the top it is a turn off. Hearing Dick Button or Scott Hamilton have an orgasm everytime Kwan moved a finger or had a fart, or Tracy Wilson go overboard how Virtue & Moir are way better than Torvill & Dean and the perfect epitome of all things dance, and it becomes imposible to root for them or feel attached to them.

Why are you watching American or Canadian Broadcasts?

YouTube did not exist during the Kwan era. Also, broadcasts from North America were not international, so you would have had to have gone out of your way to watch.

Why did you go out of your way to watch something you don't like?

 

[savchenkoboss]

It’s been 20 years: time to let it go...

think you mean Korean.

V&M just skated at the last Olympics months ago, hardly 20 years ago dumb ass. Or maybe in your parallel universe 3 months = 20 years, LOL!

And for your second point Kim gets ridiculous overpraise from Chinese and Japanese and all Asian outlets, not just South Korean. For obvious reasons least from Japan but even Japanese reporters praise her as much or more than their hero and fellow legend Mao Asada.

Another dummy for my ignore list. Annoying posters are just as bad as annoying commentators but atleast unlike annoying commentators they are easily shut off without missing anything.

 

[briancoogaert]

Of course it is Michelle Kwan. I don't know why there is any discussion

 

[alchemy void]

And for your second point Kim gets ridiculous overpraise from Chinese and Japanese and all Asian outlets, not just South Korean.

You understand Chinese and Japanese? Impressive.

Another dummy for my ignore list. Annoying posters are just as bad as annoying commentators but atleast unlike annoying commentators they are easily shut off without missing anything.

https://giphy.com/gifs/reaction-beyonce-real-housewives-8leaEcIxC91cs

 

[AxelAnnie]

Look at Kim at all her success and still people popping off about a damn non-pointed toe

Well, it was horribly un-Kim like, and sort of just hung out there.

 

[vgerdes]

My armchair diagnosis is that he had untreated ADHD, which, as typical, was exacerbated by puberty. This goes along with him constantly seeking out pleasurable dopamine stimulating activities (ie sex, adrenaline junky activities, attention seeking activities, cocaine, etc.). I don't think Chris was abused or he probably would have told the media for some cash when at a low point.

Maybe. But OTOH, if it was something he was deeply ashamed/traumatized about, something he had buried down deep, no amount of money could have gotten him to talk. I met him once, and actually got to spend some time talking with him (it was partly an interview, as I was a reporter for a local newspaper at the time, but it diverged into something a little more personal when he found out I was a fan). He seemed to be pretty open and friendly on the surface, but I also got the impression that he was haunted by something. Just my take, I don't have real evidence to support it. But it's one of the reasons why his death shook me so much.

I agree with you about the untreated ADHD though. I think it explains a lot (not as an excuse, but it definitely casts a different light on what happened).

I don't blame Frank for distancing himself from Chris, at all. But it always made me sad, because I think there was a lot of affection there at one time, on both sides.

 

[bardtoob]

@AxelAnnie you're funny

 

[Prancer]

V&M just skated at the last Olympics months ago, hardly 20 years ago dumb ass. Or maybe in your parallel universe 3 months = 20 years, LOL!

And for your second point Kim gets ridiculous overpraise from Chinese and Japanese and all Asian outlets, not just South Korean. For obvious reasons least from Japan but even Japanese reporters praise her as much or more than their hero and fellow legend Mao Asada.

Another dummy for my ignore list. Annoying posters are just as bad as annoying commentators but atleast unlike annoying commentators they are easily shut off without missing anything.

Tired of being back already?

 

[Jessica]

maybe Lysacek since he ended up bringing Frank his elusive 2nd Olympic Gold.

I thought Evan was his first.

 

[bardtoob]

I thought Evan was his first.

No, his first favorite student is Linda Fratianne.

 

[Jessica]

No, his first if Linda Fratianne.

The quote said "his elusive 2nd olympic gold" not 2nd favorite student.

 

[bardtoob]

But she didn't win the olympic gold medal.

He said in his TLS interview explicitly that she was his favorite student. I don't think Frank measures his students purely by results.

 

[Jessica]

He said in his TLS interview explicitly that she was his favorite student. I don't think Frank measures his students purely by results.

You obviously didn't read what I quoted. I give up as I don't really care.

 

[bardtoob]

@Jessica sorry

 

[Jessica]

@Jessica sorry

No problem. I was just 99.999% sure that Evan was Franks 1st and only olympic gold medalist.

 

[UGG]

Evan gets so hated on for his OGM, but he was a World Champion and multiple US National Champion. I get that other more talented people faltered but that also happened to Sarah Hughes and only the people who like Michelle Kwan are upset about it. I realize Sarah did the 3/3's but they were cheated. And THEN 4 years later Arakawa won with 5 triples and no 3/3 and there was no outrage with the skating fan community that she set the sport back 15 years. I think people just don't like Evan.

 

[Fiero425]

Evan gets so hated on for his OGM, but he was a World Champion and multiple US National Champion. I get that other more talented people faltered but that also happened to Sarah Hughes and only the people who like Michelle Kwan are upset about it. I realize Sarah did the 3/3's but they were cheated. And THEN 4 years later Arakawa won with 5 triples and no 3/3 and there was no outrage with the skating fan community that she set the sport back 15 years. I think people just don't like Evan.

I know he was never a fave of mine's! Evan just gave off this air of being so above others at times; esp. in his commentary on his closest rival, Johnny Weir! He well deserved the OGM at the time, but other skaters had to falter as you said! Not sure IIRC, but even after Plushy performed so abysmally with a few shaky landings, he was still only a double axel behind in the scoring! That was Evgeny's arrogance showing thinking it was enough to perform the quad since Evan had none! I was very disappointed in every way; Evan winning, Evgeny coming up short, and the inevitable debate about it all! Arakawa pulled back on her program's jump passes since Sasha hit the ice twice on the Lutz and Flip triples! IMO, no one was as gifted on the ice, but Sasha found ways to come up short to skater not in her class! Arakawa deserved it too even though Sasha infinitely better performing a role on ice! "She is JULIET" as Sandra Bezic loves to slobber in her TV commentary!

 

[savchenkoboss]

Evan gets so hated on for his OGM, but he was a World Champion and multiple US National Champion. I get that other more talented people faltered but that also happened to Sarah Hughes and only the people who like Michelle Kwan are upset about it. I realize Sarah did the 3/3's but they were cheated. And THEN 4 years later Arakawa won with 5 triples and no 3/3 and there was no outrage with the skating fan community that she set the sport back 15 years. I think people just don't like Evan.

I dont know, I find Sarah Hughes gets a ton of criticsm since her OGM win, and it isnt even just by Kwan fans. Her win is also often but down as a default win since others had mistakes, and I hear that said much more often about her than about Lysacek, when it applies to him arguably even more than her. Especialy since there are only 2 people who could have beaten Hughes skating how they normally do, while there are possibly as many as 6 or 7 men who could have beaten Lysacek with just a "good" competition.

I would agree with you except for the fact I dont sense Hughes is less downplayed than Lysacek at all.

Lastly it is worth noting he has fewer National titles than both Weir and Abbott, extremely strange for an Olympic and World Champion to have fewer National titles than two guys who never truly made it big. Just as it is worth noting Olympic Champion Hughes doesnt even have a National title.

 

[bardtoob]

I hear that said much more often about her than about Lysacek, when it applies to him arguably even more than her.

No it doesn't Evan was a recent World Champion going into the Olympics that had a program specifically designed for the IJS. Evan's main rival at those Olympics had content fit for Elvis Stojko in 1998, despite having clearly been able to perform a program fit for the IJS in the past.

Lastly it is worth noting he has fewer National titles than both Weir and Abbott, extremely strange for an Olympic and World Champion to have fewer National titles than two guys who never truly made it big. Just as it is worth noting Olympic Champion Hughes doesnt even have a National title.

This is contradicts your own argument. Sarah had never been either a National or World Champion when winning the Olympic Gold Medal. Evan had been both a National and World Champion when he won the Olympic Gold Medal.

Lastly it is worth noting he has fewer National titles than both Weir and Abbott . . .

I am so sad that Abbott, with his crappy skating at the Olympics, has an Olympic medal of any kind while Weir never got a medal despite having some rather spellbinding moments at the Olympics.

 

[aftershocks]

Fratianne, Kwan, Lysacek, Denis, particularly in terms of those he communicated well with. Obviously Frank certainly admired Bowman and respected his talent, but he ultimately was very disappointed in him. I think Bowman broke Frank's heart.

Chris Bowman was my first serious, hard-core figure skating crush. I think his talent was such that he could have beaten anybody if his work ethic had even come close to matching it. When he was on, he was pure magic. Yes, he was a deeply flawed human being. But the way his career - and ultimately, his life - ended broke my heart regardless.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMRW1HmNiVI