What Is Art?

[gkelly]

If we want a more general philosophical discussion, we can start a separate thread in Off the Beaten Track.

With regards to skating, we've had similar discussions in the past, but I thought it might be interesting to have a thread for discussing art in figure skating, something to chew on intellectually while we don't have new actual skating to talk about.

Some questions worth considering:

Are all programs to music inherently art as well as sport, or does there have to be something else added by the skater (or choreographer) for a program to qualify as art?

What kinds of qualities would qualify a performance as art, or as "more artistic" than others?

In competitive skating, is there, or should there be, a direct correlation between what makes a performance artistic and what deserves higher Presentation scores in 6.0 judging or program component scores, especially Performance, Composition, and Interpretation, under IJS?

What would be the ideal training and criteria for judges tasked with evaluating artistry, if indeed they should be so tasked?

 

[Tinami Amori]

"art" means "to create", "to put together", to "craft". It's origin is ancient Greek word "artizein" - means "to construct", to "put together". in greek "ar-" means to fit elements together.

in order to describe the creative results, one needs to be specific by adding another word to "art":

fine art
modern art
arts and crafts
graffiti art
performance art
design art
the art of ..... (insert another noun)
and so on.....

 

[Miki89]

What kinds of qualities would qualify a performance as art, or as "more artistic" than others?

What would be the ideal training and criteria for judges tasked with evaluating artistry, if indeed they should be so tasked?

For me, what separates a truly artistic performance from a simply entertaining one is that there are signs that technique is involved in service of the artistry. This is why I have always preferred skaters who have great aesthetics (lines, extension, posture). Like a ballet dancer, a skater who possess these qualities have dedicated a lot of time and effort towards it and should be rewarded.

I think a judge tasked with evaluating PCS should ideally have an arts background preferably in music, dance, or other visual forms. I don't think being a former skater necessarily makes them an informed judge of artistry, so they should get additional training.

 

[gkelly]

For me, what separates a truly artistic performance from a simply entertaining one is that there are signs that technique is involved in service of the artistry. This is why I have always preferred skaters who have great aesthetics (lines, extension, posture). Like a ballet dancer, a skater who possess these qualities have dedicated a lot of time and effort towards it and should be rewarded.

What kind of technique?

E.g., if you have one skater with great lines and extension and posture, which they showcase in spirals with so-so edges (or on flats not even bothering with edges) and in spins that may travel or rotate slowly, and another skater with very solid edges on their spirals and fast, centered spins but so-so positions, could we agree that the latter has stronger skating technique? But the former has better . . . what? Body line technique? Skating aesthetics (but not technique)?

 

[Miki89]

What kind of technique?

E.g., if you have one skater with great lines and extension and posture, which they showcase in spirals with so-so edges (or on flats not even bothering with edges) and in spins that may travel or rotate slowly, and another skater with very solid edges on their spirals and fast, centered spins but so-so positions, could we agree that the latter has stronger skating technique? But the former has better . . . what? Body line technique? Skating aesthetics (but not technique)?

Of course, I am assuming they have good skating technique as well. I was more referring to artistic technique which differs from skating technique. If a skater has solid skating skills plus good aesthetics, I would always rank them above a skater with solid SS but weaker aesthetics.

 

[skateboy]

I think it's important to realize that a well executed jump or spin is inherently beautiful and a form of art in itself. So, even for skaters labeled as "just jumpers," there is at least some degree of artistry in their performances, even if other aspects are lacking.

That said, for me a really artistic performance goes beyond that. The skating skills and "in-betweens" are certainly important but, more than that, I like to see a skater that really INTERPRETS the music. Does the jump, spin or step sequence really highlight what is going on in the music, or is it just sort of... there? Even some of the best skaters are lacking in this quality, in my opinion. (Which can be the lack of a first-rate choreographer as well.)

 

[Marco]

Purpose of movement.

I want to see moves that give meaning to the program and the overall performance, moves that flow and not laboured, moves that are held and made important.

 

[twizzletoes76]

This is such an important discussion. Not sure where to begin so I will just throw this in—right now I’m writing a paper where I discuss what types of dance works might hold value for discussion or study in academic classrooms. I make the argument that if the dance work creates a space for a viewer to think and ask questions, then its study can be worthwhile. I also explain how any type of art has aesthetic value if it sparks imagination in a viewer—and, thereby prompts a viewer to want to more imaginatively engage in the world around him or her.

Obviously, figure skating is not straight art because there are competitive elements that must be included in programs. But, generally speaking, good art makes a viewer feel something or think differently about something after experiencing it.

Judges, however, I would argue are not good critiques of artistic elements. Too often I’ve seen skaters referred to as “artistic skaters” just because they wear a colorful costume or make exaggerated facial expressions. That might be art—but not necessarily. Art in competitive skating usually comes when the performer uses a piece of music in ways that are effective and when a choreographer has made a program that does something new or of value.

But how do we define what that type of “value” even means?

 

[Coco]

Related pet peeve - when a skater or gymnast is referred to as "artistic" simply because their limbs are a certain proportion and they have a certain 'look.'

I like the comment about purpose of movement. That really gets at an answer to the question...art must have a purpose or point of view, and the movements must relate back to that or push it forward somehow.

 

[DreamSkates]

Purpose of movement.

I want to see moves that give meaning to the program and the overall performance, moves that flow and not laboured, moves that are held and made important.

 

[Bellanca]

With regard to figure skating and ice dancing, the art or artistic influence would be someone who has acquired highly developed techniques and skills. An artist exhibits effortless movement, emotional connection, and the ability to establish a mood that captures the moment, much like a painting catches the essence of its subject. The result is to leave the impression to the observer they are capable of doing what they are observing because it appears to be so natural, relaxed, and carefree, like a walk in the park.

 

[Japanfan]

FS skating has an artistic component. When people draw or paint, it can be called art.

Art does not mean good or great art. It's just a thing.

 

[Brenda_Bottems]

Purpose of movement.

I want to see moves that give meaning to the program and the overall performance, moves that flow and not laboured, moves that are held and made important.

Absolutely.

Unfortunately,I haven't seen moves like that in figure skating since TAB was my diet drink of choice.

Compulsory figures were art as well,excluding the overrated Soviet and East German ladies.

-BB