What do people here think of Jill Trenary

bardtoob said:
There are other things to do when you are two years out of high school. She did do some touring with COI. It is also important to note that at that time in the US marriage, having kids, etc. was something people started to think about at her age range.
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The same thing is true today.
 
My impression, from Kadavy’s interview, was that Jill’s father was wealthy and that Jill was always decked out in designer clothes. I don’t know Kaday’s background, but it seemed as if she were from a more humble background.

I believed that Jill married Dean after his marriage with Isabelle Duschenay. She then disappeared from professional skating. Maybe she gave it up for motherhood, however I believe that Dean might have been controlling. His relationship with Isabelle was toxic and people thought she was the crazy one. I think he makes women feel vulnerable and insecure. I just feel like he has a pattern with the women he is involved with.
 
overedge said:
The same thing is true today.
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Interesting.

I might only know my experience, but my thoughts were that starting in the mid-1990s the idea of being out of the house at 18 for boys and thinking about finding a husband for girls was out the window. Both sets of people had a harder time supporting themselves directly out of high school and delayed marriage to almost 30 years old, on average.

And the old foggy in me wants to say: 18-22 year olds are now too self absorbed, have no concept of traditional life, and would rather figure out how to monetize the Seven Deadly Sins, pride, greed, lust, envy, gluttony, wrath, and sloth, on Instagram and YouTube than have a family.
 
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soogar said:
I believed that Jill married Dean after his marriage with Isabelle Duschenay. She then disappeared from professional skating. Maybe she gave it up for motherhood, however I believe that Dean might have been controlling. His relationship with Isabelle was toxic and people thought she was the crazy one. I think he makes women feel vulnerable and insecure. I just feel like he has a pattern with the women he is involved with.
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Who knows, but just two points to consider:
1) Trenary returned to pro (team) competition and Stars on Ice in 1995-96, which was after she married Dean
2) She had a serious blood clot in 1997 that was the supposed reason for her retirement, and then she had two children in quick succession beginning in 1998
 
SLIVER said:
The artistry issue is also not be to ignored. Who came close to her artistically in 1990, no one. Certainly not Ito or Yamaguchi.
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Hmm I prefered Ito's long program atleast artistically to Jill's to be honest. I found it more musical, better choreographed, and made better use of changes of speed, tempo, and the ice surface. Even if Jill's posture and line were obviously better.
 
Louis said:
Except Holly Cook competed in the 1990-91 season. She finished fourth with a clean short program at Nationals, but then fell twice and ended up sixth in the free skate. She attempted to add a triple loop that season, but I don't believe she ever completed one in competition.

After 1991 Nationals and then especially after 1991 Worlds, Cook had to realize that she and her two different triples were no longer competitive nationally, much less internationally. Any sane person would have assumed she had no chance at the Olympics with Yamaguchi, Harding, Kerrigan, and Trenary all slotted ahead of her.

Weirdly -- given how the judges nearly dumped Harding for Lisa Ervin(!) at 1992 Nationals, Cook with a clean short program and four-triple free skate may have actually had a shot. But that was impossible to predict in the spring of 1991.

I liked Holly's quirky skating for what it was. More than just about any other skater, she skated on her own terms and didn't seem to care what people thought.
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I love reading Joe Jackson's book details how some of the higher ups in the USFSA couldn't stand Cook's presence and were campaigning hard to make sure she missed the World team in favor of up and coming Kerrigan, should 1 of the big 3 (Harding, Trenary, Yamaguchi) falter to open up a spot. Apparently one reason the long program was only a 5-4 split for 2nd between Yamaguchi and Kerrigan (had Kerrigan beaten Yamaguchi in the LP she passes Cook, she had to beat Cook by 2 spots in the long to pass her) was some judges were purposely trying to make that happen upon prodding from some of the behind scenes people who were borderline repulsed by Cook. It makes me happier she not only made the team but won her surprise medal at worlds. I can only imagine from the book details some people wringing their hair out after that, and I love it.
 
Fadeevfanboy said:
I love reading Joe Jackson's book details how some of the higher ups in the USFSA couldn't stand Cook's presence and were campaigning hard to make sure she missed the World team in favor of up and coming Kerrigan . . .
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I am certain Holly was subject to a major campaign of snide talk behind her back and gossip from Evy Scotvold to all the "old timers at the USFSA" in a way similar to how Tonya was, but there was less gossip fuel from Holly since she had a very stable life and strong family values. Also, I bet Tom Collins didn't fix Holly's teeth the way he did for Kerrigan.

Too bad Evy couldn't fix Kerrigan's figures, although she said on Dancing with the Stars that he did tell her to lose weight.
 
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Jill was kind of the last of her kind -- a skater strong in figures and weak in jump content.
 
canbelto said:
Jill was kind of the last of her kind -- a skater strong in figures and weak in jump content.
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Neske, Lebedeva, Cook, Sargeant, all fit that bill too. Not surprising this was the last year any were relevant, and most of them retired soon after figures were finished, with Neske hanging around to make the relatively weak German team for an Olympic appearance in 92.
 
bardtoob said:
I am certain Holly was subject to a major campaign of snide talk behind her back and gossip from Evy Scotvold to all the "old timers at the USFSA" in a way similar to how Tonya was, but there was less gossip fuel from Holly since she had a very stable life and strong family values. Also, I bet Tom Collins didn't fix Holly's teeth the way he did for Kerrigan.

Too bad Evy couldn't fix Kerrigan's figures, although she said on Dancing with the Stars that he did tell her to lose weight.
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Given what I have heard of the Scotvolds that wouldn't surprise me in the least. I think some of the USFSA snobs also just couldn't stand someone who fixed her wedgie during her program on National TV once, does a hand flick entering each triple toe, and does barrel rolls in her program as her signature move. :biggrinbo I love the barrell rolls so much.
 
For the young 'uns who don't know who we are talking about

youtu.be

Holly Cook (USA) - 1990 World Figure Skating Championships, Ladies' Free Skate

Halifax, Nova Scotia, CANADA - 1990 World Figure Skating Championships, Ladies' Free Skate - Holly Cook of the United States placed 4th in the Free Skate, bu...
youtu.be youtu.be

And because this is Jill's thread

youtu.be

Jill Trenary (USA) - 1990 World Figure Skating Championships, Ladies' Free Skate

Halifax, Nova Scotia, CANADA - 1990 World Figure Skating Championships, Ladies' Free Skate - Jill Trenary of the United States placed 2nd in the Free Skate, ...
youtu.be youtu.be

youtu.be

Jill Trenary 1996 Ice Wars

Nancy Sinatra's "These Boots Were Made For Walkin'"
youtu.be youtu.be
 
Marco said:
Big jumps but otherwise tacky skater. Meh spins. Not a fan of her programs but then again most progams in that era were incohesive like that. I prefer Caryn Kadavy but she was equally inconsistent in that Nikodinov way of at least popping 2 triples per free skate.

Come to think of it, it was almost a miracle that she became world champion in the Midori Ito era, with just flips, toes and sals.
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For the time I think she really knew how to sell a program however tacky it was and get the crowds behind her. Nancy's programs were just as tacky but no one was tapping their toes to those programs.
 
"Tacky" is a weird adjective to describe Jill's skating and style. What was tacky about her programs ? I do think her style (shoulder pads, hair) and some of her programs (ie the SP in 88 done by Bezic!) don't age well, but I would say Jill was stylish for her era. Her best programs were the two pro routines at a pro team competition choreographed by then husband Dean.

Debi, Jill and Karyn all pretty much had the same jump content, more or less, and similar spins and skating skills.
 
Vash01 said:
Her jumps were toe loop, salchow, flip. I don't know which " 5 triples and 3 flip" you are talking about. Most certainly not the 3axel. Her contemporaries had harder jumps. Ito of course had all six, and the 3t3t. Yamaguchi had the 3Lz in 1989 (May be earlier?) IIRC Karen Kadavy had the 3R. Debbie Thomas had the 3R and I think 3f (not sure about that). Witt had the 3f but she didn't always use it. I saw Jill doubling the triples rather often. By 1991 many ladies were doing the 3Lz, some in combination. I think Debie Thomas doing 5 triples in her LP.

She was strong in school figures. That helped her win medals and the 1990 worlds (a real sore point with me). Of course it was not her fault. It was the system she competed under. She was a mediocre technical skater. She had a good carriage and personality on the ice. I liked her as a pro. Unfortunately that career was relatively short.
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I think you know I meant she was doing a 5 triple free programme that included the triple flip, NOT that she had 5 different triples. Her contemporaries hardly had the same jumps, let alone harder jumps. She had the 3rd highest content at Worlds in 89 and 90, only bested by Ito (a total freak of nature, that hadn't been matched till Harding and the Russian girls of today). Yamaguchi was junior with tiny jumps and had 2 seasons littered with errors and falls. Witt almost never showed the flip, certainly not in the short. Leistner and Bonaly not even worth mentioning.
Either way the pertinent years for this thread were 1989 and 1990 when she was contention for gold, not the years when she was finishing 4th and 5th. There was no one that came even close to having the full package that was needed in those 2 years. You needed compulsories, jumps and artistry. Ito and Yamaguchi had neither compulsories, nor artistry (Yamaguchi went on to develop that).
Ternary was fast, powerful, polished had stunning basic skating with excellent posture and extension. The jumps she had were high and beautiful, not like today's almost spun, pre rotated tiny jumps. Saying she was a 'mediocre technical skater' is very erroneous, especially with her basics.
The only way one can argue her world title, as I mentioned in my thread, was her place in the short in Halifax, where she should have been lower than 5th. However many say that Ito should have also been lower than 10th in the compulsories and that despite her massive error on the first compulsory, they still tried to hold her up. She had ordinals as low as 21st in the compulsory!

Even if you look back at this 90' short programme, that almost lost her the title, only including a double toe-double toe combo, the rest of the elements are superb. Just the first 20 seconds emphasise everything I said earlier. The grace, the extension, the flow she gets from barely one push. The extension and flow through the spiral sequence (compare to Ito or Yamaguchi), the phrasing of the music on the layback. The double flip with the arms around the waist and the speed and ice coverage of the circular step.
Even in a disastrous programme, she was still stunning and by far the most complete skater. I mean she even got a 5.8 from Vanessa Riley, anyone that can do that with a mistake of that size, is definitely the complete package. No surprise that Bauil calls her, her favourite skater and inspiration. If you care enough, you should go back and look at the free too, with the hindsight of time.

short

 
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canbelto said:
Looking back, Jill's programs don't hold up well compared to the other ladies of her era.

Midori - her jump content is still incredible in 2022.
Kristi - still an impressive combo of artistry and jump content
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Again, it's only these 2. The rest of their skating doesn't hold up well to hers either, it's not only about the jumps, there was compulsories, artistry etc etc. She stacked up very well to every other skater in the final group the year of her title, Yamaguchi didn't even make that group.
 
bardtoob said:
  • I always remember the scowl turned laugh she mugged towards Christopher Bowman from the boards during an international competition gala exhibition in the late 80s. She was probably legitimately mortified. He was skating to Woolly Bully and doing the Pony with a lot of hip gestures and with something like a tie around his head.
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This vid is iconic! Seeing Jill's shock, but Katia and Sergei laughing in the background...it's everything I needed today.
 
orbitz said:
"Tacky" is a weird adjective to describe Jill's skating and style. What was tacky about her programs ?
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The music and especially the editing! Almost always like random lounge and aerobics music being pasted together. But as I said, most of the programs during that era were similar.

Can't fault the clean jumps she landed and the beautiful basics, but the spins were visibly weak in comparison. Although I don't think the judges cared that she would only do 1 rev per position in a combination spin?!
 
Marco said:
The music and especially the editing! Almost always like random lounge and aerobics music being pasted together. But as I said, most of the programs during that era were similar.

Can't fault the clean jumps she landed and the beautiful basics, but the spins were visibly weak in comparison. Although I don't think the judges cared that she would only do 1 rev per position in a combination spin?!
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Ha she won't thank you for calling it lounge music lol. Actually the free music of 90 and 91 were specially composed for her by 'Yanni' a very big music producer and artist. He really was huge in the 80s and 90s not sure how they even got him to agree to do this for her! I agree I don't like the last upbeat tune of the 90's free, cheapened the program a little. Funny you talk about editing, I love how seamless the edit was in her short, especially going into the last tune of the Olympic music.
Her 1989 free was purely classical and I love that program but I think people found it too cold. I think in 1987/8 she used the Scorcerer's Apprentice. Honestly if you leave out the Russian girls of today almost every skater is going through something similar to Trenary. One day they were the best and competitive and the next they're not. Even skaters like a Chen, Bell and many of the Japanese are literally overnight no longer going to win anything unless the Russians bomb. It's going to take a whole new generation to challenge; it must be a horrible feeling.

You cannot be a purist and not love this free from 1990 US Nationals, where she received a very well deserved 6.0 and got the massive arena on their feet. The speed and power throughout the program were amazing. She is just exquisite in the slow section, her edges are like butter, always with the incredible arms, extension and polish. She also held off Harding and Yamaguchi very easily even with their triple axels and lutz combos. I also find it funny when people say she was lucky, you don't win 3 US titles and a World title, having to contend with Thomas, Harding, Ito, Yamaguchi etc by being lucky!

www.youtube.com

Jill Trenary - 1990 U.S. Figure Skating Championships, Ladies' Free Skate

Salt Lake City, Utah, USA - 1990 United States Figure Skating Championships, Ladies' Free Skate - Jill Trenary skated the performance of her life here, rebou...
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com
 
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Fadeevfanboy said:
love reading Joe Jackson's book details how some of the higher ups in the USFSA couldn't stand Cook's presence and were campaigning hard to make sure she missed the World team in favor of up and coming Kerrigan, should 1 of the big 3 (Harding, Trenary, Yamaguchi) falter to open up a spot.
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Is that the book where someone kvetched that Holly Cook ordered Thousand Island salad dressing? I'll show my ignorance here and ask what was such a crime about that? Was this just a catty opinion on a skater's weight or is there some other cultural meaning here that went over my head? Naive little me has often recalled this anecdote, maybe because my father liked Thousand Island! Funny what things stick in one's mind!
 
snoopysnake said:
Is that the book where someone kvetched that Holly Cook ordered Thousand Island salad dressing? I'll show my ignorance here and ask what was such a crime about that? Was this just a catty opinion on a skater's weight or is there some other cultural meaning here that went over my head? Naive little me has often recalled this anecdote, maybe because my father liked Thousand Island! Funny what things stick in one's mind!
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Yep. Seeing how much Cook's existence annoyed the snob hobs up in the USFSA makes me love her as a sort of guilty pleasure that much more. I am glad she won that world bronze now, I am just picturing that group sitting in a room watching Cook win bronze over their darling little Kristi and their pulling their hair out, and some of them probably throwing things. Maybe even some Thousand Island salad dressing.
 
It is funny that this thread was created when I had just finished watching the 1989 Worlds ladies SP yesterday afternoon and of course Jill was in it. I had forgotten that Chris Dean wasn't married to Isabelle long before marrying Jill. Maybe that should have been a red flag for her. Or how he was divorced in 93 and remarried by 94--didn't take long to date, get engaged, etc.

Also, I always thought the Scotvolds looked snobby. Just my perception of course of seeing them on TV.
 
My skating fandom started with 1993 Worlds so I missed her original run, but I do vividly remember being in love with the programs she displayed on the pro circuit (even Canon was really beautiful IMO). I remember they showed her in the audience for the '98 Worlds and that was the last I saw of her. Of course, when YouTube and skating videos became a big thing, I watched all of her earlier performances and thought she was quite good. I totally would've been team Kadavy during the '86-'88 seasons, but Jill was very competent herself. I think some of the commenters forget the state of skating as a whole at the turn of the 90's, and Holly Cook (as amazing as her 1990 SP is) shows a perfect example of that. Even Leistner being on the podium behind Ito in 1989 after 6 years says a lot.

And of course, Jill surely was the inspiration behind Baiul's Arabian program, which is one of my all-time favorites and that is peak captivating skating if you ask me. So we have her to thank for that ;)
overedge said:
Funny how all the nitpickers looking for reasons to criticize Jill's skating can't get their own facts right.

There are at least two famous people named Joe Jackson (the English musician and Michael Jackson's dad). The skating book was written by Jon Jackson. https://www.amazon.com/Edge-Backroom-Dealing-Cocktail-Scheming/dp/1560259531
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You've been wrong plenty of times. Thanks for the substantial addition to the discussion.
 
Someone here mentioned that it was a pet peeve of theirs how she would always lick her teeth before she started any performance and now that is all I think about when I hear Jill Trenary's name. Well that and wondering how many cans of hairspray she used to get her do to stay in place. ;)
 
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