Vaytskekhovskaya's interview with Arutyunyan

[IceAlisa]

No, I have. What I find baffling is the way this was presented to Raf. From Raf: "First of all his family. Chen announced before the Olympics he will be doing this season all that his family will decide. He told me that flat and square. Explained how much he owes his family for all they have done for him. Hence he decided to dedicate the Olympic season to his family and follow every wish of his beloved ones. We'll see next season whether he'll change his mind. Then we'll decide how to continue working."

It sounds like he feels such a deep sense of indebtedness to his family that to pay them back he felt he had to let them decide his life this season. If all this is what he really said it's way more extreme than just having an overbearing mom calling shots - it sounds very unhealthy to me if that's how he's viewing his career. He can't be in this because he feels obligated to his family.

Yours is a very different read from mine. Where did you see that he is skating because he feels obligated? I haven't read anything that indicates Nathan doesn't want to be skating and is skating only for his family. It's different from dedicating a season to his family and letting them call the shots. He is an 18 year old kid who was affected by being at his first Olympics, I don't see it as his own fault but as a fault of his family who decided for him instead of listening to Raf. And I can cite so many examples when parental decisions hurt their skater kids. As to the rest, Raf is telling the truth until proven otherwise.

 

[MAXSwagg]

But at the same time, Raf also bragged about the fact that Nathan was "so comfortable and skilled" that they could play around with the program layouts on the flip of a switch. So he can't have it both ways. Phil also pointed out how that was possible because jumps require specific set ups. Changing layouts on a whim shouldn't be possible but I guess it is when you don't have footwork transitions into them.

 

[MacMadame]

So he can't have it both ways.

He's not having it both ways. He didn't want Nathan to do the harder jumps because of his injury and how he was practicing them, not because he would be uncomfortable switching things around.

 

[MAXSwagg]

He's not having it both ways. He didn't want Nathan to do the harder jumps because of his injury and how he was practicing them, not because he would be uncomfortable switching things around.

The point is that it comes down to fundamental principles. You can't just switch the entire program around at the last minute, whether he's injured or not. That and/or Raf should not have allowed that (which we know he did, because he bragged about it). Hanyu was more injured than Nathan but Brian developed plan and they stuck to it. The results speak for themselves.

 

[olympic]

He is allowed to let off the steam with one of his own, no? Unless you mean another the methods of another Russian coach--no, that approach would never ever fly here, not even close

Totally. I agree. I liked his comment because I think there is some truth to it.

 

[hanca]

The point is that it comes down to fundamental principles. You can't just switch the entire program around at the last minute, whether he's injured or not. That and/or Raf should not have allowed that (which we know he did, because he bragged about it). Hanyu was more injured than Nathan but Brian developed plan and they stuck to it. The results speak for themselves.

I don’t think he wanted to switch the whole program. There is a huge difference between switching the whole program and switching one jump within the program. Switching one jump can mean doing perhaps two or three steps differently and the rest of the program is the same, so what’s the problem? Most skaters are able to do the same even on the spot, changing program if the jumps didn’t work out . For example, Lipnitskaya at one of her past Europeans didn’t have good landing so she decided to do the combination on a different jump. I heard the same being done by Wagner and Osmond in the past, so it is pretty standard thing to do.

 

[Meoima]

But at the same time, Raf also bragged about the fact that Nathan was "so comfortable and skilled" that they could play around with the program layouts on the flip of a switch. So he can't have it both ways. Phil also pointed out how that was possible because jumps require specific set ups. Changing layouts on a whim shouldn't be possible but I guess it is when you don't have footwork transitions into them.

This is what makes me puzzled. If Raf is the type who wants his students to stick to the plans, why there’s the interview with Phil in which Raf talked like it’s ok to train for various layouts all at once and change the layout on the fly?
Yeah this time at the Olympics it might not be Raf’a decision to change the layout at 6 in the morning though.

 

[nimi]

I don’t think he wanted to switch the whole program. There is a huge difference between switching the whole program and switching one jump within the program.

Are we talking about the 6 am decision to change the SP layout here? Because Raf specifically talks about how switching from 4F->spins->4T (i.e. what Nathan had been training leading up to Korea) to 4Lz->spins->4F was not a good idea in his view. And how that's not switching just one jump within the program, that's changing 2/3 of the jump layout and it affects the SP as whole.

The fact is that at 6am he decided to go for a Lutz and a flip. And there is also an Axel to land, which is not his best in general. One can not have that many problematic jumps in one SP. Besides, the flip was supposed to come after two spins.

EV: What is a problem landing a flip after two spins?
RA: the problem is not the jump as such, but that the SP is too packed. The Lutz demands the most resources, if it was not landed well, and let me remind you, that one should had been a combo it's a lot of energy wasted. Then you go for two spins and then a flip, which, by the way, only two other skaters except for Chen attempt, so it's not so easy. And then the Axel, which you happen to fall on the practices from, and not just from time to time - it's your worse jump... of course I tried to the best of my ability to explain Nathan that Lutz and flip are not a great idea.

 

[hanca]

Are we talking about the 6 am decision to change the SP layout here? Because Raf specifically talks about how switching from 4F->spins->4T (i.e. what Nathan had been training leading up to Korea) to 4Lz->spins->4F was not a good idea in his view. And how that's not switching just one jump within the program, that's changing 2/3 of the jump layout and it affects the SP as whole.

Look, I personally don’t think he should have changed it, but the bottom line is that Nathan is the one who is skating it so it is his decision. He will be the one who has to live with the consequences. He did what he chose to do. Whether it is such a stupid idea as it sounds or not, he would know the best because he and his coach are the ones who see him every day at practices so they would know what his success rate of those jumps are, and what is the probability of landing them when it counts. It may not have been the 6am decision, he may have known a bit longer and didn’t tell his coach because he didn’t want any arguments or disagreements affecting his practices. I guess on one side it is better to make the decision yourself (even if it shows to be the bad decision) than doing what someone advised you and then live with the regret. Now he knows what happened when he did it his way. Can you imagine, even if he got bronze or silver, forever thinking whether he could have done better if he did it his way?

 

[Jeschke]

I kind of fear for Nathan if his mother is making the decisions.

#motherknowsbest

 

[Marco]

EV: Was it a blow for you your pupil Ashley Wagner didn't make it to the Olympic team?
RA: She wasn't training so well, really.

I wonder if it meant she was training hard but without results, or that she wasn't training hard enough.

 

[TAHbKA]

I wonder if it meant she was training hard but without results, or that she wasn't training hard enough.

I don't know. It's just that in Russian without specifying. Sorry

 

[skateboy]

I wonder if it meant she was training hard but without results, or that she wasn't training hard enough.

I took it that he meant the latter... Raf expressed disappointment in Ashley earlier in the season for not putting in enough training hours.

 

[Meoima]

Tursy's mom acts crazy in the K&C, mortifying Tursy and there are rumors she interferes with her training. But you know all this, what's your point?

I don’t know. Brian seems to get along with Tursyn mom very much: https://www.instagram.com/p/BfejjLWlEjk/?taken-by=padishahan

 

[IceAlisa]

I don’t know. Brian seems to get along with Tursyn mom very much: https://www.instagram.com/p/BfejjLWlEjk/?taken-by=padishahan

That actually made me laugh. He seems like he is just tolerating her in that picture. The smile is a bit frozen.

 

[misskarne]

Not as in "overweight", that was not the meaning, the talk was of body structure. Of course Adam's body structure at 28 is "heavier" than, let's say, Vincent Zhou at 17.
Even if I go on a starvation diet, my bone/body structure will never be as light as Medvedeva's.

I don't think he means fat, I think he means not as narrow a body line. Adam is bulkier (more like Boitano), whereas Jin, Chen and Hanyu are extremely skinny body types (weight aside).

Yeah, that exactly. "Heavy" in Russian doesn't mean "fat" per se, it just means heavy like a stone is heavier than cottonwool. If Raf meant fat, he would say fat.

We are talking about the same guy who said this, remember:

So now Arutyunyan will tell his skaters that they look sluggish or that they need to be in better shape. “But basically,” he said, “same time I’m thinking, ‘O.K., how I can make elephant to fly?’”

Regardless of anything else it's an unhelpful term to be using because Adam is nowhere near heavy.

 

[Meoima]

That actually made me laugh. He seems like he is just tolerating her in that picture. The smile is a bit frozen.

I think he isn’t that annoyed. Or else he could just fire Liza and her mother.

 

[IceAlisa]

I think he isn’t that annoyed. Or else he could just fire Liza and her mother.

Maybe he is charging her enough to tolerate her

 

[MAXSwagg]

Maybe he is charging her enough to tolerate her

Utility bill girl or car payment girl?

 

[IceAlisa]

Utility bill girl or car payment girl?

If I were him, I’d make it yacht payment girl or private jet payment girl. Go big or go home

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

We are talking about the same guy who said this, remember:



Regardless of anything else it's an unhelpful term to be using because Adam is nowhere near heavy.

What term would you prefer? Adam's built has an impact on his jumping ability. He may look like Adonis, but the way his body is built is not as well suited to certain things as say Yuzuru's body. There is nothing helpful or unhelpful about stating it. It's just a fact of life. Raf was asked a specific question, and gave an honest answer. I am sure Adam is juuuuuuust fine with his "heavy" built.

 

[tabby cat]

Very interesting read. @TAHbKA, thank you so much for taking the time to translate all the articles you do. So much better than having to use google translate.

 

[Nadya]

We are talking about the same guy who said this, remember:



Regardless of anything else it's an unhelpful term to be using because Adam is nowhere near heavy.

I think Raf is better positioned to see what's helpful and what's not. You are an example of the reason why Raf said he feels the need to choose his words ever so carefully to avoid snowflake meltdown. Feeeeelings!

 

[nimi]

I think Raf is better positioned to see what's helpful and what's not. You are an example of the reason why Raf said he feels the need to choose his words ever so carefully to avoid snowflake meltdown. Feeeeelings!

Ah, so skaters who('ve) struggle(d) with disordered eating and body image issues (like Adam) are just "snowflakes" having a "meltdown" and deserve scorn. Because issues like that aren't a real problem amongst elite skaters. Got it.

 

[el henry]

Because I was not kind to Tom Z under similar circumstances, I need to be equal opportunity...

Summary of interview with Raf:

“When skaters don’t perform well, it’s someone else’s fault. Their mom, their boots, they're sick. Whatevs. It is not the Great Just Telling It Like It Is (JTILII) Raf’s fault. How could it be?

If they listen to the JTILII Raf, they practice and follow everything I say, and I mean everything I say, even if they are fat elephants, they will do well. That is my doing.

If they do not, they are fat elephants and I am not to blame. Or controlled by their parents, and I am not to blame. Or they don’t listen to me and I am not to blame.

And if they leave, I hope they remember that JTILII Raf brought them to where they are today.”

Okey dokey then

 

[clairecloutier]

LOL @el henry. Yes, that is one possible interpretation of things, isn't it.

 

[Meoima]

Because I was not kind to Tom Z under similar circumstances, I need to be equal opportunity...

Summary of interview with Raf:

“When skaters don’t perform well, it’s someone else’s fault. Their mom, their boots, they're sick. Whatevs. It is not the Great Just Telling It Like It Is (JTILII) Raf’s fault. How could it be?

If they listen to the JTILII Raf, they practice and follow everything I say, and I mean everything I say, even if they are fat elephants, they will do well. That is my doing.

If they do not, they are fat elephants and I am not to blame. Or controlled by their parents, and I am not to blame. Or they don’t listen to me and I am not to blame.

And if they leave, I hope they remember that JTILII Raf brought them to where they are today.”

Okey dokey then

Lol really... I am not a big fan of Raf and since there are always more sides of one story but I don’t think he is that much.

 

[hanca]

Because I was not kind to Tom Z under similar circumstances, I need to be equal opportunity...

Summary of interview with Raf:

“When skaters don’t perform well, it’s someone else’s fault. Their mom, their boots, they're sick. Whatevs. It is not the Great Just Telling It Like It Is (JTILII) Raf’s fault. How could it be?

If they listen to the JTILII Raf, they practice and follow everything I say, and I mean everything I say, even if they are fat elephants, they will do well. That is my doing.

If they do not, they are fat elephants and I am not to blame. Or controlled by their parents, and I am not to blame. Or they don’t listen to me and I am not to blame.

And if they leave, I hope they remember that JTILII Raf brought them to where they are today.”

Okey dokey then

Well, to be fair to Raf, if someone is so optimistic/silly to think that he can bet everything on a quad Lutz (the jump that hardly anyone in the world does because it is so hard) just three weeks after being injured, I am not surprised that Raf wants to get his side of the story to media. When someone underperforms, it is usually the coach who gets blamed. The skater lost his opportunity to get a medal on this occassion, but for the coach it is his livelihood. And the skater’s decision affects the coach, in terms of how succesful the coach is perceived. So saying out there that it was the skater’s decision and that the skater was not ready and therefore he did not agree with this decision, I think that’s fair.

 

[dinakt]

@el henry
Many successful/high profile coaches and private teachers carry in them an element of your summary
If things go wrong, your fault; if things go right, my achievement. At least in public. And often they are correct.

 

[Meoima]

Well, to be fair to Raf, if someone is so optimistic/silly to think that he can bet everything on a quad Lutz (the jump that hardly anyone in the world does because it is so hard) just three weeks after being injured, I am not surprised that Raf wants to get his side of the story to media. When someone underperforms, it is usually the coach who gets blamed. The skater lost his opportunity to get a medal on this occassion, but for the coach it is his livelihood. And the skater’s decision affects the coach, in terms of how succesful the coach is perceived. So saying out there that it was the skater’s decision and that the skater was not ready and therefore he did not agree with this decision, I think that’s fair.

The point is why Raf is speaking now... unless they have some serious argument.

I have seen this same article in English on Fsgossip. Then that means Nathan’s family might sooner or later know about this. Or they might have read it already. Will they let Nathan stay with Raf after this interview though.