Vaytskekhovskaya's interview with Arutyunyan

All this talk about Asian parents regarding Nathan and then injecting Hanyu into the discussion made me wonder, and apologies for getting off topic with this. I'm not Asian, and I have no clue.

I'm finding similarities and differences between Chen and Hanyu fascinating.

Both prodgies, both burst on the international scene at 17, both close to their mothers, both Asian/Asian American, both under pressure. Nathan dedicates his career to his family, whereas it's obvious Hanyu's pursuing his own ambitions. Makes me wonder where the pivotal difference was, and whether it's a question of age, and whether Nathan will simply grow out from under his family's influence. (If it's even possible to grow out of one's family influence.)

I'm not going to quote your whole post, but 'Asian/Asian American' is not an undifferentiated cultural blob and the implication of your question is actually pretty offensive. Hanyu is Japanese and Chen is first-generation Chinese-American. (I don't know from which part of China his family hails, which can be a site of further differentiation within the Chinese-American community.) They come from two completely different cultures. EVEN IF they were both Japanese or Chinese-American, however, they could have very different outlooks on competition and family, just as two WASP Americans could have different relationships with their families.

There's immense cultural diversity in Asia, where 60% of all humans live, and there's furthermore a big difference between Asians and Asian-Americans who grew up in the States. Don't do this.
 
I'm not going to quote your whole post, but 'Asian/Asian American' is not an undifferentiated cultural blob and the implication of your question is actually pretty offensive. Hanyu is Japanese and Chen is first-generation Chinese-American. (I don't know from which part of China his family hails, which can be a site of further differentiation within the Chinese-American community.) They come from two completely different cultures. EVEN IF they were both Japanese or Chinese-American, however, they could have very different outlooks on competition and family, just as two WASP Americans could have different relationships with their families.

There's immense cultural diversity in Asia, where 60% of all humans live, and there's furthermore a big difference between Asians and Asian-Americans who grew up in the States. Don't do this.
Yes, not to mention no families are alike. Each parent has their own ideal and direction for their kids.
From this https://twitter.com/Iron_Klaus/status/967823160593846274
It seems Yuzuru’s mom is just a normal Japanese housewife mom. From a documentary in 2011 when she made Yuzuru’s costume to save money, it was said that his mother didn’t expect Yuzuru to become an Olympian, let alone an Olympic Champion. His sister also gave up skating because it’s too expensive. Hanyu just went with it and ended up doing better than his family expected. I don’t think we can compare Hanyu and Nathan’s childhood. Hanyu is Hanyu and he grew up in Japan under a vastly different circumstances than a Chinese American family.

Back to Nathan, I have no doubt his mother loves him. And I don’t think there is any clear proof that his mother told him to change the layout at 6 in the morning either. Yes his family might have influenced him but in the end it’s his career his life choice. It’s go big or go home. Nathan eventually will go to college and make more of decisions on his own. We shall see how he will do when that happens.
 
I'm not going to quote your whole post, but 'Asian/Asian American' is not an undifferentiated cultural blob and the implication of your question is actually pretty offensive. Hanyu is Japanese and Chen is first-generation Chinese-American. (I don't know from which part of China his family hails, which can be a site of further differentiation within the Chinese-American community.) They come from two completely different cultures. EVEN IF they were both Japanese or Chinese-American, however, they could have very different outlooks on competition and family, just as two WASP Americans could have different relationships with their families.

There's immense cultural diversity in Asia, where 60% of all humans live, and there's furthermore a big difference between Asians and Asian-Americans who grew up in the States. Don't do this.

I didn't mean to put Asian and Asian American into one basket by any means, that's why I wrote both of them. Sorry, I should have phrased it better. You're right, I overreached.
 
I'm not going to quote your whole post, but 'Asian/Asian American' is not an undifferentiated cultural blob and the implication of your question is actually pretty offensive. Hanyu is Japanese and Chen is first-generation Chinese-American. (I don't know from which part of China his family hails, which can be a site of further differentiation within the Chinese-American community.) They come from two completely different cultures. EVEN IF they were both Japanese or Chinese-American, however, they could have very different outlooks on competition and family, just as two WASP Americans could have different relationships with their families.

There's immense cultural diversity in Asia, where 60% of all humans live, and there's furthermore a big difference between Asians and Asian-Americans who grew up in the States. Don't do this.
I think the emphasis on high achievement in many East Asian cultures share many of the same goals and mechanics, given the high rates of depression and suicide among school-age children across multiple East Asian countries, and even East Asian students in US schools. But how the mechanics hash out can certainly differ depending on the locality.

But yes, being from an immigrant family in the US certainly lends a different flavor as well. I feel like there's a special emphasis on specific achievement as an American-born child of immigrant parents from Taiwan. From what my parents told me about their childhoods in Taipei, the goal was to get a great score on the dakao, the equivalent of the SATs (or other pre-uni standardized test). If you did badly on it, you were screwed for life. BUt if you did well, you could write your own future. But here, it wasn't enough for my classmates and relatives to do well on the SATs and get great grades, they had to get into an Ivy League uni and go to med school or law school afterwards. It's a never-ending pressure cooker. Maybe it's because we're minorities here and our parents feel like we have to go above and beyond to ensure success.
 
I didn't mean to put Asian and Asian American into one basket by any means, that's why I wrote both of them. Sorry, I should have phrased it better. You're right, I overreached.

Thank you for being open to my perspective! It's all good.
 
Recuperation time is only a blessing in disguise if a person actually heals. Hanyu admitted to having been on painkillers since the doctor told him he wouldn't heal before Olys. No matter how I look at training with aid of painkillers on unhealed ankle, I can't see how it could not have done more damage than good. (After listening to interviews, some fans have been actually shyly asking themselves whether Hanyu's appearance of being well-rested and relaxed was just his cheer and relief at having made it to the Olys at all or if he was just half-high on meds.)

Right, and I don't disagree with any of the points you made in your post. I would just add that I was speaking more about Nathan's own reflections on his injury and surgery that was related to his bone growth issues. At that point in 2016, it was unclear whether he'd be able to come back strong. So the fact that he came back even stronger and his growth issues were also conquered is fairly amazing. In terms of Hanyu's injury, I haven't followed what's happening to him that closely. So, it's interesting to find out here that he's not necessarily fully healed and that he was approved to take painkillers. That might prove to be in the long run, not such a good thing for his health. But granted, Hanyu is very resilient and a true champion.

His fans may not view it as a 'blessing in disguise' that Hanyu was injured, but I still feel that his injury allowed him to slow down and to take stock, which enabled him to better focus on his ultimate goal for this season. Sure it was unknown about whether he would recover strongly and in time. But I didn't have many doubts. For Hanyu to not have to compete at NHK, GPF, and Japanese Nationals may have disappointed his fans, but it was clearly beneficial to him recovering as best he could, and to working on his mental preparation (as Orser told us), in addition to providing some breathing space. Hanyu is slightly older than Shoma, Nathan, and Boyang. I personally see Hanyu's time off recuperating from his injury as an advantage, no matter the price he had to pay, and that he may still have to pay as a result of his injury. Despite all the obstacles, Hanyu has achieved the goal he set for himself four years ago.

Just to add, Rippon had his fair share of coach swapping and not working things out well with coaches in the past. I think part of it is just growing up. :)

Yes, but it's different for everyone and it pays not to generalize. Adam was not a frenetic 'coach-swapper' as that term suggests. He ran into problems with Morosov and later with Orser, which simply meant they were not a good fit for him personality-wise. But I'm sure he gained a lot of knowledge from both of them which he surely appreciates.

The experience in Detroit with Yuka & Jason was simply another step on Adam's journey, but in retrospect a stopgap. Still, Yuka & Jason helped Adam in important ways. One of those ways was encouraging Adam to trust his own instincts. Eventually, through his connection with Ashley, Adam ultimately made the move to California (which he took to like a fish to water), and to Raf and a coaching environment in which he has thrived and matured. It would be nice if Adam had found Raf soooner, but life and figure skating is never that simple. It's too often convoluted. Again, this quote comes to mind: "Life is 10% what happens to you, and 90% how you react to it."

Nathan has also been quoted as saying that if people want artistry, they should watch ice dancing and not men's figure skating.

What is the context please? In response to a prying press query, or something off the top of his head in a fluff piece? If you are not a fan of Nathan's please stop insinuating negativity. Nathan has always been an artist, and a well-rounded skater. He's focused on the jumps because that's how you win in the current environment. He brings a modern, edgy quality to the ice and if he stays healthy physically and mentally, he will continue to be a force to be reckoned with athletically and increasingly artistically.
 
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The interesting thing was technically Ashley this was the third year in a row Ashley popped a jump in the long program at Nationals.

What I don’t get is why he made her go back to Moulin Rouge! La La Land had great potential. The story of him playing both songs and asking her which she related to more doesn’t add up! I think most skaters would choose an old program.
I have seen no evidence that Ref made Ashley go back to MR
 
In addition to that, there's the not-little-issue of Nathan being an American, which means Orser would need to jump through some bureaucratic hoops in order to function as his coach and be at the boards with him--i.e., "put him on the ice."
I agree that Brian probably wouldn’t take Nathan as a student, but why would he have to jump through bureaucratic hoops to put him on the ice?
 
I agree that Brian probably wouldn’t take Nathan as a student, but why would he have to jump through bureaucratic hoops to put him on the ice?
I think it's that there are a bunch of certifications, insurance and things he needs to be allowed to coach at domestic US comps, like Nationals, and it's expensive and time consuming. I assume he also has to do similar things in Canada, but that's more worth it because he has several Canadian students he works with.
 
I think it's that there are a bunch of certifications, insurance and things he needs to be allowed to coach at domestic US comps, like Nationals, and it's expensive and time consuming. I assume he also has to do similar things in Canada, but that's more worth it because he has several Canadian students he works with.
Canadian Coaches have to be certified to coach by Skate Canada and it’s a pretty extensive process. Brian has coached an American before, and other Canadians are currently coaching Americans, so I doubt that it’s a big problem.
 
Canadian Coaches have to be certified to coach by Skate Canada and it’s a pretty extensive process. Brian has coached an American before, and other Canadians are currently coaching Americans, so I doubt that it’s a big problem.

So you're saying Brian is lying about the extensiveness of the process?
 
So you're saying Brian is lying about the extensiveness of the process?
Of course not. I wasn’t aware that Brian talked about it - if he said so then it is. He coached Adam and there are other Canadian coaches working with Americans so I thought it wasn’t a problem. My mistake.
 
I am not sure why everyone is so hard on Ashley. She has been around for 10 years now, with no break at all? And going up against harder and harder technical content? So what if this is not her hardest working season? If i were her I would burn out way before this. And it is not as if the other US ladies are setting the world on fire.

If you don't like her twitter or interview remarks it is one thing, but after ten years of work I don't think she owes anyone any more work. Same goes for Chan.
 
Responding to Ashleys work ethic... I have always felt she has never pushed herself even in light of the obvious need to add content to her program. Goes way back to John Nick's time. When was the last time she even put a 3A 3T in the program when every lady of any consequence was doing it. And it wasn't really til she started working with Raf that she even tried to break the two foot landing habit. I really like Ashley and appreciate what she does well but pushing herself I don't think has been her style. Regretably.
 
I can remember when she left Priscilla Hill in 2011 (?) and started training w/ John Nicks, the first thing Nicks did was tighten her rotation on the jumps. I remember in interviews at the time, AW said something to the effect that Nicks told her an elite skater at her level should have better jump technique / not UR so much. She didn't get really serious w/ the 3-3 until the 2014 Olympic season.
 
I agree that Brian probably wouldn’t take Nathan as a student, but why would he have to jump through bureaucratic hoops to put him on the ice?

Among other things, he would need a US social security number, an annual background screen, and $1MM in liability insurance. I am not sure how much the requirements overlap with Skate Canada’s, and if he coached Adam and other US skaters previously in international competition, he may already have a SSN. But as someone who had to undergo a US background check for her current job, I will tell you that they require you to provide a ton of information, such as every address you’ve lived at and every place you’ve worked, going back to age 18. If you’re 25, that may be easy. If you’re 50 or however old Brian is - or if you've moved around a lot or had a lot of temporary jobs - it may not be so easy.

http://www.usfsa.org/story?id=84159
 
That's something quite grave you are accusing her of, publicly.

Based on any interactions I have had, Nathan’s mom is very close to him and very involved in his skating. She has no qualms calling out and giving advice during official practices. This is something I’ve seen myself at more than one event.

Based on that, it is my opinion that she may well have told him which jumps to do and he may have listened. Can I be sure that this happened? No. But do I believe it was a possibility? Absolutely.

That’s not an accusation, it’s an opinion.

Based on our interactions, I also think Nathan is a lovely young man and a very hard worker. This is also an opinion, not an accusation.
 
Responding to Ashleys work ethic... I have always felt she has never pushed herself even in light of the obvious need to add content to her program. Goes way back to John Nick's time. When was the last time she even put a 3A 3T in the program when every lady of any consequence was doing it. And it wasn't really til she started working with Raf that she even tried to break the two foot landing habit. I really like Ashley and appreciate what she does well but pushing herself I don't think has been her style. Regretably.

Every lady of consequence was doing 3A-3T? In what universe? :confused:
 
Ah. Well, that's a good combination, of course, but I wasn't aware it was the be-all and end-all.
 
Among other things, he would need a US social security number, an annual background screen, and $1MM in liability insurance. I am not sure how much the requirements overlap with Skate Canada’s, and if he coached Adam and other US skaters previously in international competition, he may already have a SSN. But as someone who had to undergo a US background check for her current job, I will tell you that they require you to provide a ton of information, such as every address you’ve lived at and every place you’ve worked, going back to age 18. If you’re 25, that may be easy. If you’re 50 or however old Brian is - or if you've moved around a lot or had a lot of temporary jobs - it may not be so easy.

http://www.usfsa.org/story?id=84159

Wait - what?
US Skaters have had Canadian coaches before and have them now. Marie-France? Patrice? Coaching Maddie & Zach?
This is not some terribly challenging hurdle.
 
Wait - what?
US Skaters have had Canadian coaches before and have them now. Marie-France? Patrice? Coaching Maddie & Zach?
This is not some terribly challenging hurdle.

Did you look at the link in my email? It outlines the requirements, including the background check, liability insurance, certifications, and continuing education requirements. Whether or not Brian Orser considers them onerous or not terribly challenging is up to him, not me.
 
Did you look at the link in my email? It outlines the requirements, including the background check, liability insurance, certifications, and continuing education requirements. Whether or not Brian Orser considers them onerous or not terribly challenging is up to him, not me.

I looked at the US requirements for coaching certification and they aren’t nearly as onerous as Skate Canada, but of course it’s all additional paperwork and Brian isn’t short of students. I’m curious though, I missed the quote from Brian where he says this. Can someone point me towards it?
 
I looked at the US requirements for coaching certification and they aren’t nearly as onerous as Skate Canada, but of course it’s all additional paperwork and Brian isn’t short of students. I’m curious though, I missed the quote from Brian where he says this. Can someone point me towards it?

Sorry I don’t know - I was just responding to someone’s question. I don’t think the PSA certification piece is that bad - just some online tests I think. But it looks like he would need a US SSN for the background check and I’m not sure how hard that is for a Canadian. Or maybe the process isn’t a big deal and he never said what he is alleged to have said - I don’t know. I will say I went through a pretty extensive background check for my job and it was a pain.
 
Sorry I don’t know - I was just responding to someone’s question. I don’t think the PSA certification piece is that bad - just some online tests I think. But it looks like he would need a US SSN for the background check and I’m not sure how hard that is for a Canadian. Or maybe the process isn’t a big deal and he never said what he is alleged to have said - I don’t know. I will say I went through a pretty extensive background check for my job and it was a pain.
Thanks, someone asked me if I was calling Brian a liar, so I assumed I must have missed something. Skate Canada requires insurance and background checks as well, but of course the US would want it’s own, and perhaps they are even more extensive for foreigners.
 

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