Vaytskekhovskaya's interview with Arutyunyan

Meoima said:
The point is why Raf is speaking now... unless they have some serious argument.

I have seen this same article in English on Fsgossip. Then that means Nathan’s family might sooner or later know about this. Or they might have read it already. Will they let Nathan stay with Raf after this interview though.
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When would be better time to say it? To me it makes sense to say it immediately after the event. What’s the point if he says it a year or two later? It is about his professional reputation.
 
hanca said:
When would be better time to say it? To me it makes sense to say it immediately after the event. What’s the point if he says it a year or two later? It is about his professional reputation.
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That is not my point. What I want to say is, Rafael speaks up like this, does that mean he will have trouble with Nathan’s family? Will they keep hiring him or will they look up another coach for Nathan?
 
I was actually most caught by Raf's comments on Ashley. It brought home what I've suspected all season. Namely that Ashley was practicing and working, but that she seemed to take the attitude that because she was the most recent US World medalist, as long as she didn't fall on her butt at Nationals, she was going to the Olympics. I know that will probably tick some folks off, but I'm a fan of Ashley's, and I just didn't see a major work ethic this season. Until she pulled out of SA and realized she might be in trouble. Still, she expected her PCS to pull her through, and it didn't this time with her bringing a new program to Nationals. She took some risks and got bit.

And I also find it interesting and unsurprising that the one student who listened to Raf, worked out a plan with him and followed it even with a bump in the road or two was the one who made it to the Olympics and prospered and was thrilled with his experience.
 
Meoima said:
The point is why Raf is speaking now... unless they have some serious argument.

I have seen this same article in English on Fsgossip. Then that means Nathan’s family might sooner or later know about this. Or they might have read it already. Will they let Nathan stay with Raf after this interview though.
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Or he could just be answering questions? He always gives blunt interviews. I don’t see why his answers have to have an agenda or some ulterior motive.
 
shine said:
I am Asian myself and really I dont' know if we can take this aspect of the interview so literally. Frankly I cannot picture his mom sitting Nathan down and saying to him "you must go for 4Lz and 4F despite your injury because it's best for you", even if they are Asian.
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So you haven’t met his mom then. She’s intense! I have no doubt that she loves Nathan and wants the best for him. She doesn’t take her eyes off him in practice, often calling out to him and offering her opinion. He dutifully pays attention to her too. I could absolutely see her sitting down and telling Nathan which jumps he should do.
 
Yazmeen said:
I was actually most caught by Raf's comments on Ashley. It brought home what I've suspected all season. Namely that Ashley was practicing and working, but that she seemed to take the attitude that because she was the most recent US World medalist, as long as she didn't fall on her butt at Nationals, she was going to the Olympics. I know that will probably tick some folks off, but I'm a fan of Ashley's, and I just didn't see a major work ethic this season. Until she pulled out of SA and realized she might be in trouble. Still, she expected her PCS to pull her through, and it didn't this time with her bringing a new program to Nationals. She took some risks and got bit.

And I also find it interesting and unsurprising that the one student who listened to Raf, worked out a plan with him and followed it even with a bump in the road or two was the one who made it to the Olympics and prospered and was thrilled with his experience.
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I am not sure why everyone is so hard on Ashley. She has been around for 10 years now, with no break at all? And going up against harder and harder technical content? So what if this is not her hardest working season? If i were her I would burn out way before this. And it is not as if the other US ladies are setting the world on fire.

If you don't like her twitter or interview remarks it is one thing, but after ten years of work I don't think she owes anyone any more work. Same goes for Chan.
 
jlai said:
I am not sure why everyone is so hard on Ashley. She has been around for 10 years now, with no break at all? And going up against harder and harder technical content? So what if this is not her hardest working season? If i were her I would burn out way before this. And it is not as if the other US ladies are setting the world on fire.

If you don't like her twitter or interview remarks it is one thing, but after ten years of work I don't think she owes anyone any more work. Same goes for Chan.
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I agree - but then don't blame the judges when you don't make the Olympic team. They didn't owe her anything either.
 
thvudragon said:
Or he could just be answering questions? He always gives blunt interviews. I don’t see why his answers have to have an agenda or some ulterior motive.
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I don't see Raf has ulterior motive either. But when he talks like this about the people who pay him... then it might be that both sides are not on good terms.
 
feraina said:
... Nathan decided to follow his family’s wishes for this season in order to thank them for all that they’ve done for him. That’s understandable and even admirable in a way. But it’s frustrating important decisions were left up to non experts with too much invested emotionally.
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Raf may not be for everybody but I love his honesty and his expertise. I would certainly trust him to be the coach and back out when it comes to strategic competitive decisions. I do not think it's 'understandable' for Nathan to think he needs to thank or to repay his family by having them tell him what to do on the ice, and especially NOT at the Olympics. :drama: For goodness sake, and for Nathan's sake, I hope he and his family have absorbed some lessons learned. :duh:

Nathan can thank his family simply by being himself and listening to his coach. His family, fans, USFS, media and skating community all need to back off and be patient. I have said that the sport does not deserve Nathan Chen. I still think that's true. And he does not deserve to have to bear the burden of living up to anyone's expectations and demands, not even his family's. If he'd won OGM as he could have at these games, Nathan would have plenty of opportunity and even more money from sponsorship deals to 'thank' his family.

I hope Nathan does not go to Brian Orser, especially not the way Orser began throwing darts toward 'young quadsters' in interviews, post 2017 Worlds and 4CCs. Orser of course was referencing Nathan because it is Nathan who changed the game and upset the apple cart with his multiple clean quads, essentially threatening both Javi's and Hanyu's secure place at the top. Neither Shoma nor Boyang have been seen to be as much of a threat.

Nathan had run into some misfortune with his boot problems and his foot injury, so it's not for certain all would have been a smooth trip to the top in any case. Hanyu was well-rested and on a mission. But had Nathan listened to Raf, more than likely he would have at least been on the podium, as we can see from the firepower Nathan threw down in the fp. Still the skating community, along with Orser and his honorary 'sons' are quite happy with how things turned out. ETA: Of course they worked long and hard for their goals, so they should be happy.
 
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aftershocks said:
Hanyu was well-rested and on a mission. But had Nathan listened to Raf, more than likely he would have at least been on the podium, as we can see from the firepower Nathan threw down in the fp. Still the skating community, along with Orser and his honorary 'sons' are quite happy with how things turned out.
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“Well-rested”? Hanyu is still injured and he has to use pain killer to skate through Olympics. Hanyu himself doesn’t even know how long his injury will heal as the injured part can’t be treated with surgery. I am not sure what you say about “well-rested”. Out of anyone, Hanyu has to suffer injury and crazy attention I don’t wish on anyone.

It’s understandable you think Nathan’s issues with his coaching is so unfortunate and I am sorry for Nathan as well. But it’s not like Hanyu and Orser walked on roses to the gold. You keep talking from pages to pages as if Hanyu had it easier “thanked to his injury” and that the pressure on him was less while in reality it was hell for him those days as he didn’t know where would he be able to skate again.

I kinda find your narrative from time to time annoying as you put down the huge amount of attention and pressure Hanyu has to carry on his shoulders (have you seen the mass of people gathering for Hanyu at the airport and in the press conference), as if his winning the 2nd gold is a walk in the park while in reality it’s a walk with painkillers.

At least Orser did protect his student well by not revealing anything about Yuzuru’s true condition to the media.

I have no problem with Raf being honest. The thing is, this reporter is famous for her ill-informed articles and gossips, I wonder why Raf opened up this matter to her. My Russian friends say it’s better to avoid her like plague.
 
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Oh, Vaitsekhovskaya is (in)famous for twisting facts to fit her own view of things - and for writing hilarious things such as Hanyu being accompanied by a Japanese warlock all the time who effectively puts a spell on his rivals. But I’d hope she wouldn’t twist people’s words in interviews.
Treating an injury and skating through pain is resting, eh? Yeah right...
 
Meoima said:
“Well-rested”? Hanyu is still injured and he has to use pain killer to skate through Olympics. Hanyu himself doesn’t even know how long his injury will heal as the injured part can’t be treated with surgery. I am not sure what you say about “well-rested”. Out of anyone, Hanyu has to suffer injury and crazy attention I don’t wish on anyone.

It’s understandable you think Nathan’s issues with his coaching is so unfortunate and I am sorry for him as well. But it’s not like Hanyu and Orser walked on roses to the gold. You keep talking from pages to pages as if Hanyu had it very easy “thanked to his injury” and that the pressure on him was less while in reality it was hell for him those days as he didn’t know where would he be able to skate again.

I kinda find your narrative from time to time annoying as you put down the huge amount of attention and pressure Hanyu has to carry on his shoulders (have you seen the people gathering for him at the airport and in the press conference), as if his winning the 2nd gold is a walk in the park while in reality it’s a walk through painkillers.
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Congratulations @Meoima. You must be so happy for your fave Hanyu and his deserved victory. There's really no need for you to be so oversensitive in this or in any other thread is there? I have not gone on for 'pages to pages' about Hanyu having it 'very easy thanks to his injury.' :duh: It's always mind-boggling seeing these OTT exaggerations. I said that Hanyu had the opportunity to slow down and not over-exert himself trying to perfect a quad-lutz. No one wants to be injured, and it's not easy coming back from injuries. But I suspect from all evidence that the time recuperating allowed Hanyu to refocus on his ultimate goal, to rest his mind and body, and to strategize. Orser has said the rehab time was in part used to help Hanyu with mental preparation.

Even Nathan has spoken about how his injury and surgery after 2016 U.S. Nationals was perhaps a blessing in disguise, despite it preventing him from competing at Worlds and Jr Worlds that season. But it was better for the injury to have happened when it did, and for Nathan to not go to those competitions and end up with worse physical issues. During his therapy in Colorado, Nathan learned better training and physical preparation strategies, which strengthened his body and his mental focus for being able to come back and challenge himself to go for more quads in unheard of fashion.

I'm not sure why you are offended at my use of 'well-rested.' If you don't feel that's the right phrasing, fine. Hanyu certainly looked strong and in good shape. Everyone marveled over the ease with which he performed. If he's on painkillers and still not recovered, I'm sorry to hear that. You are exaggerating once again though if you feel that I said what Hanyu accomplished with the help of Orser has been easy.

It's obvious that Orser and his champion pupils were worried about Nathan's multiple quads, and so when Nathan struggled in the team event and then in the individual event sp to the point where he landed in 17th place, that took some pressure off of all the top contenders. I don't see how anyone can believe otherwise. It doesn't mean anything was easy because they all still had to perform. But with Nathan in 17th place, the top guys did not have to worry about the points Nathan could and ultimately did rack up in the fp. I think Hanyu was already in a good winning mindset coming into the games no matter what, so clearly even had Nathan not run into problems, Hanyu was ready to do battle. And Hanyu also had the wisdom gained from his prior Olympic experience.

I have not commented on the topic of Hanyu's burden of fame in his home country one way or the other. He's a champion and he's dealt with the enormous attention gracefully. Orser has mentioned in interviews that he agrees it has benefited Hanyu to be able to train in Canada, which gives him some measure of relief from the rock star attention that follows him everywhere, and certainly more intensely in Japan.
 
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If you are afraid that your carefully planned, prepared strategy, delivered as well as you can do it, might not be "the best" and therefore "a failure," throwing it out the window and doing the two hardest jumps in your repertoire certainly would take the pressure off and alleviate fear of not being the best.
 
insideedgeua said:
So you haven’t met his mom then. She’s intense! I have no doubt that she loves Nathan and wants the best for him. She doesn’t take her eyes off him in practice, often calling out to him and offering her opinion. He dutifully pays attention to her too. I could absolutely see her sitting down and telling Nathan which jumps he should do.
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And you can see her sitting Nathan down telling him to the the 4Lz DESPITE his injury on the left foot as well?
 
All this talk about Asian parents regarding Nathan and then injecting Hanyu into the discussion made me wonder, and apologies for getting off topic with this. I'm not Asian, and I have no clue.

I'm finding similarities and differences between Chen and Hanyu fascinating.

Both prodgies, both burst on the international scene at 17, both close to their mothers, both Asian/Asian American, both under pressure. Nathan dedicates his career to his family, whereas it's obvious Hanyu's pursuing his own ambitions. Makes me wonder where the pivotal difference was, and whether it's a question of age, and whether Nathan will simply grow out from under his family's influence. (If it's even possible to grow out of one's family influence.)

aftershocks said:
Congratulations @Meoima. You must be so happy for your fave Hanyu and his deserved victory. There's really no need for you to be so oversensitive in this or in any other thread is there? I have not gone on for 'pages to pages' about Hanyu having it 'very easy thanks to his injury.' :duh: It's always mind-boggling seeing these OTT exaggerations. I said that Hanyu had the opportunity to slow down and not over-exert himself trying to perfect a quad-lutz. No one wants to be injured, and it's not easy coming back from injuries. But I suspect from all evidence that the time recuperating allowed Hanyu to refocus on his ultimate goal, to rest his mind and body, and to strategize. Orser has said the rehab time was in part used to help Hanyu with mental preparation.

Even Nathan has spoken about how his injury and surgery after 2016 U.S. Nationals was perhaps a blessing in disguise, despite it preventing him from competing at Worlds and Jr Worlds that season. But it was better for the injury to have happened when it did, and for Nathan to not go to those competitions and end up with worse physical issues. During his therapy in Colorado, Nathan learned better training and physical preparation strategies, which strengthened his body and his mental focus for being able to come back and challenge himself to go for more quads in unheard of fashion.

I'm not sure why you are offended at my use of 'well-rested.' If you don't feel that's the right phrasing, fine. Hanyu certainly looked strong and in good shape. Everyone marveled over the ease with which he performed. If he's on painkillers and still not recovered, I'm sorry to hear that. You are exaggerating once again though if you feel that I said what Hanyu accomplished with the help of Orser has been easy.

It's obvious that Orser and his champion pupils were worried about Nathan's multiple quads, and so when Nathan struggled in the team event and then in the individual event sp to the point where he landed in 17th place, that took some pressure off of all the top contenders. I don't see how anyone can believe otherwise. It doesn't mean anything was easy because they all still had to perform. But with Nathan in 17th place, the top guys did not have to worry about the points Nathan could and ultimately did rack up in the fp. I think Hanyu was already in a good winning mindset coming into the games no matter what, so clearly even had Nathan not run into problems, Hanyu was ready to do battle. And Hanyu also had the wisdom gained from his prior Olympic experience.

I have not commented on the topic of Hanyu's burden of fame in his home country one way or the other. He's a champion and he's dealt with the enormous attention gracefully. Orser has mentioned in interviews that he agrees it has benefited Hanyu to be able to train in Canada, which gives him some measure of relief from the rock star attention that follows him everywhere, and certainly more intensely in Japan.
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Recuperation time is only a blessing in disguise if a person actually heals. Hanyu admitted to having been on painkillers since the doctor told him he wouldn't heal before Olys. No matter how I look at training with aid of painkillers on unhealed ankle, I can't see how it could not have done more damage than good. (After listening to interviews, some fans have been actually shyly asking themselves whether Hanyu's appearance of being well-rested and relaxed was just his cheer and relief at having made it to the Olys at all or if he was just half-high on meds.)

That said, Nathan definitely worried Orser and his boys. And most probably Orser's plan was actually very much like Rafael's philosophy: adapt to the situation. Hanyu was seen tentatively training 4L up until SP, and if what crossed the fan circles was actually Hanyu's original planned FS layout, then he was planning a 5 quad program. Likely only when he won the SP and Nathan ended up far in the back, did Hanyu decide to ease up on the layout.

Coco said:
If you are afraid that your carefully planned, prepared strategy, delivered as well as you can do it, might not be "the best" and therefore "a failure," throwing it out the window and doing the two hardest jumps in your repertoire certainly would take the pressure off and alleviate fear of not being the best.
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That's... a depressing approach for an 18 year old.

shine said:
And you can see her sitting Nathan down telling him to the the 4Lz DESPITE his injury on the left foot as well?
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She might have just told him that she was sure he would do his best, even without meaning to imply the 4Lz, and that might have made Nathan draw his own coclusions as to what needed to be done. Coco's argument seems sound. Who knows what might have been sitting in the head of a stressed, injured teenager?
 
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AxelAnnie said:
He sounds brilliant.
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That's what I said. I was surprised to see the frightened responses. He didn’t mince words about Ashley. It was evident anyway in the performances. I did find it interesting that Yagudin yelled at TAT. Tarasova seems like indeed she knows how to look at a bigger picture. Training at that level is a emotional pressure cooker situation and Yag’s respected Tarasova like no other. Not condoning the abuse just understand her reason to look past his outbursts.

Someone mentioned Nathan going to Orser. Brian Orser and his team seems surprisingly adept at coaching skaters with unconventional training methods like Hanyu. We shall see. I do like him working with Lori however more than i anticipate seeing what Wilson can do. By the way, i wish Raf. Would have objected to Nathan wearing ANYTHING Vera Wang comes up with.
 
Yazmeen said:
And I also find it interesting and unsurprising that the one student who listened to Raf, worked out a plan with him and followed it even with a bump in the road or two was the one who made it to the Olympics and prospered and was thrilled with his experience.
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Just to add, Rippon had his fair share of coach swapping and not working things out well with coaches in the past. I think part of it is just growing up. :)
 
The interesting thing was technically Ashley this was the third year in a row Ashley popped a jump in the long program at Nationals.

What I don’t get is why he made her go back to Moulin Rouge! La La Land had great potential. The story of him playing both songs and asking her which she related to more doesn’t add up! I think most skaters would choose an old program.
 
Guys, Nathan Chen is not going to be coached by Brian Orser. Orser currently is coaching two skaters who could very well end up in direct competition with Nathan four years from now: Canadian Stephen Gogolev, a 12-year-old jump machine, and Korean Cha Jun-hwan. And then there's still Yuzu, whose future plans are unknown at this point.

In addition to that, there's the not-little-issue of Nathan being an American, which means Orser would need to jump through some bureaucratic hoops in order to function as his coach and be at the boards with him--i.e., "put him on the ice." Nathan has also been quoted as saying that if people want artistry, they should watch ice dancing and not men's figure skating. I've followed Brian both as a skater and as a coach for many years and I doubt that's the sort of skater he and Tracy Wilson would be interested in coaching.

Finally there's Nathan's serious "family baggage" issue that, courtesy of Raf, we and all the figure skating coaches know about now. I can't imagine Brian & Tracy wanting to go anywhere near a skater with a liability like that. Some posters have brought up Elizabet's mother as being a tiger mom but that's not my impression of her at all. I think she's just a caring mom who sits in the K&C with Brian in order to keep Elizabet calm, especially when her skating does not go well. Elizabet is her own tiger; her dream was to be the next Yuna Kim and she can get quite upset when she misses jumps (though she's gotten better about that). If Brian really didn't want her mom in the K&C, you can bet she wouldn't be there.
 
All in all, Nathan delivered beyond expectation in the free, so I don't think Rafael will want to cut him off, nor that Nathan or his family will want to. That free proves that Nathan was coached well - at least where results are concerned, he's able to deliver.
 
GreatLakesGal said:
Finally there's Nathan's serious "family baggage" issue that, courtesy of Raf, we and all the figure skating coaches know about now. I can't imagine Brian & Tracy wanting to go anywhere near a skater with a liability like that.
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YOu talk as if Nathan is the exception in the category. I'll be surprised if he is the only one with intense parents.
Besides, gossip travels in such a small community, so I'll be surprised if the community doesn't already know which top skaters have intense parents.
 
GreatLakesGal said:
Finally there's Nathan's serious "family baggage" issue that, courtesy of Raf, we and all the figure skating coaches know about now. I can't imagine Brian & Tracy wanting to go anywhere near a skater with a liability like that. Some posters have brought up Elizabet's mother as being a tiger mom but that's not my impression of her at all. I think she's just a caring mom who sits in the K&C with Brian in order to keep Elizabet calm, especially when her skating does not go well. Elizabet is her own tiger; her dream was to be the next Yuna Kim and she can get quite upset when she misses jumps (though she's gotten better about that). If Brian really didn't want her mom in the K&C, you can bet she wouldn't be there.
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Not talking about Nathan but I do think Elizabet’s mother is NOT a Tiger mom. Orser did tell the media several times “I am not always nice like this” so I don’t think he would tolerate Elizabet’s mother if she’s intense.
And the idea that Orser charged her a lot for the tolerance is kinda funny. Elizabet’s rankings and results aren’t ideal. She’s no super star like Yuzuru or a respectable name like Javi. Why would Orser be scared of losing her to the point he has to suffer an intense parent? Orser has got 3 Olympic golds since 2020-2014-2018 (and a bronze), you really think he needs much money from Elizabet’s mother?
Just saying...

Btw about Nathan, the last time I heard from him before the Olympics, someone told me Nathan was very well-prepared and that he was well-kept away from the media hype. That person was even sure Nathan was in good mentality for the Olympics. So I am not sure if the media hype at the Olympics became too much or it’s just a several minutes of being unlucky.

Having said that, I appreciate Raf to speak out honestly. Just why that infamous reporter. Will Nathan stay with Raf after this interview though, that’s the issue.
 
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