USFS (outgoing) president Auxier expresses concern on state of US Figure Skating

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

At 15 global championships since 2006, the U.S. has won just one singles medal at the Olympics (Evan Lysacek's 2010 gold) and four at worlds (golds by Lysacek in 2009 and Nathan Chen this year, bronze by Johnny Weir in 2008 and silver by Ashley Wagner in 2016)

http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2018/05/04/275097820

Icenetwork: How concerned are you with the overall competitive health of U.S. figure skating?

Samuel Auxier: I have been very concerned. When I took office, my belief was that our ability to compete at the lower levels in terms of fundamentals and development already was declining relative to the other top countries.

 

[Frida80]

I have some many comments that I'll make when I have time. But this man is clearly in denial. There so many unaddressed issues.

 

[Carolla5501]

It's a costly sport and they need to put their money where they mouth is. I don't donate to USFSA because I feel that their actual "support" of skaters is not living up to what they need it to be!

They want results, they need to open the checkbooks!

 

[her grace]

I appreciate many of the changes that USFS has made the last few years, especially the reduction in fall penalty and bonus for triples at lower levels. Nonetheless, many of his statements irked me. I'm going to quibble with what he says:

I've tried to think of the root causes of why we haven't been competitive in men's and ladies and pairs, Nathan and Vincent [Zhou] aside, because they are incredible talents.

Why he's including men with ladies and pairs is beyond me. The men's discipline is not in some dire straits with Chen and Zhou as the sole saviors. Krasnozhon won the JGP Final this season. Pulkinen earned the silver at the JGP Final. The junior men managed to keep three junior world spots after losing the top man on the junior world team due to injury mid-competition. The senior men kept three spots at worlds with the national champ combining with the third alternate Aaron. Brown medaled at 4CC this season. Farris, in this same quad, medaled at 4CC. Chen, Brown, Rippon, Aaron, and Hochstein all finished in the top 10 at worlds this quad.

So many of the changes being made are being done to address deficiencies in the ladies' program and it doesn't seem that a lot of thought is put into how this could affect the other disciplines. They are just along for the ride.

Now we're going to allow triple jumps at the juvenile level because we have girls who can do them, and they should be allowed to.

What's the point of having 5 different "skill" levels where triple jumps are allowed? What's the difference between a juvenile and a novice? If you want to make these levels age-based, rather than skill-based, do that instead of having everyone perform the same skills from juvenile to senior.

We have a rule that says if there aren't four skaters at an event at regionals or sectionals, they go to nationals. So if there aren't four pairs in sectionals, they go to nationals. A lot of the [pair] teams that get sent out to junior worlds have only competed at nationals. One competition is not enough to prepare them.

Of course, they've had more than one competition. How else did they earn their international minimums? I'm not opposed to the new summer qualifying series (in fact, I think it's great!), but the top pair teams have definitely competed more than he's letting on. Most of the pairs on the junior world teams this quad had 2 JGPs the season they went to junior worlds. I don't see how additionally competing at Sectionals would have made them better pair teams. Feng/Nyman could have used a second JGP this year, though. And if the tier just below the very top teams haven't competed much, well, USFS, who is it that leaves our JGP pair slots unused?

(Note: Auxier said the Foundation, which had assets of $75 million according to its most recent available tax filing (2015), has agreed to commit about $500,000 to develop an elite athlete support fund targeted at up-and-coming skaters in all disciplines who show a lot of promise, like junior ladies Ting Cui and Alysa Liu. He hopes that program will begin this summer.)

This is a very interesting tidbit.

 

[gkelly]

What's the point of having 5 different "skill" levels where triple jumps are allowed?

What's the difference between a juvenile and a novice? If you want to make these levels age-based, rather than skill-based, do that instead of having everyone perform the same skills from juvenile to senior.

Partly age -- juvenile and intermediate have age limits, although the potential elite competitors will generally be among the younger entrants at each level

Partly requirements -- According to the new proposal, Juvenile will allow only one attempt at one triple. So it will be a place for young skaters who are just starting to add triples to their repertoire to try them out without having to compete against novices and now intermediates who are including multiple triples.

Juvenile competitions don't have short programs.

The minimum SP requirements for each level are also different. Which affect the less competitive skaters more than the top skaters at each level, although in some cases it can make a difference.

E.g., juniors are required to attempt double axels in their short programs (and also have a required solo jump and required spin). Therefore a young elite-track skater who has one or two program-ready triples but still struggles with the double axel would be better off staying in intermediate or novice where s/he could include the triple(s) but stick with a good single axel until s/he masters the double.

Seniors are also required to attempt two triples in the SP. Novices are required to include at least a double-double combination whereas intermediates are allowed to do double-single (or triple-single).

The freeskate program lengths are different -- Intermediates get one more jumping pass than juveniles. Novices get a third spin.

The quality expectations/what it takes to succeed at each level increase as the level increases. A juvenile who is earning PCS in the 5.0 range would be exceptional among her peers. A senior with those scores would be hard-pressed to qualify for Nationals.


That said, it seems that the ISU(?) is pushing to equalize the rules for junior and (advanced) novice, which are distinguished by age internationally, and USFS is proposing to follow suit and to qualify the top novices at Sectionals to compete as juniors at Nationals, assuming the proposals to remove novice and lower competitions from Nationals goes through.

 

[Tinami Amori]

I am reading lately how many sports federations, in various countries which are leading in a particular sport, complaining about a lack of new young talents, or lesser results.

Kids have internet and technologies now to occupy their time... they can become "somebody" and be "creative" from their own living rooms....without breaking their bones and hours of practice.. they can become bloggers, youtubers, artists, film-makers, gamers and... make money, have fans, fame and following, and engage in various forms to express themselves....

 

[wickedwitch]

But why not mention all of the many medals the US ice dancers win? Literally, the only mention of what is one of the more dominant groups of skaters in the world is "With the exception of ice dance...."

At the Olys in 1994 and 1998, the US only won medals in ladies, but AFAIK, there wasn't the same "woe is us" outcry. It's like ice dance isn't as important as ladies to the USFSA.

 

[Spiralgraph]

But why not mention all of the many medals the US ice dancers win? Literally, the only mention of what is one of the more dominant groups of skaters in the world is "With the exception of ice dance...."

At the Olys in 1994 and 1998, the US only won medals in ladies, but AFAIK, there wasn't the same "woe is us" outcry. It's like ice dance isn't as important as ladies to the USFSA.

I very much agree, except I'd remove "like" from that sentence. If the USA doesn't start publicly supporting and recognizing our ice dancers' accomplishments and medals we might find ourselves someday back in the dark ages when our ice dancers weren't able to reach the top ten at worlds or the Olympics. (cough like our pairs are currently, cough cough.)

 

[BittyBug]

The U.S. seems to have lost its singles mojo when figures were phased out, with the Kwan / Cohen / Weir / Lysacek era probably being the last group of U.S. skaters who at least trained them. Moves in the field are generally viewed as something to get out of the way rather than something to master, and that is reflected in the ice time allocated to moves, which is minimal. I would be curious to know how much training time Canadian, Japanese and Russian skaters devote to basic skating skills compared to U.S. skaters.

 

[berthesghost]

But why not mention all of the many medals the US ice dancers win? Literally, the only mention of what is one of the more dominant groups of skaters in the world is "With the exception of ice dance...."

At the Olys in 1994 and 1998, the US only won medals in ladies, but AFAIK, there wasn't the same "woe is us" outcry. It's like ice dance isn't as important as ladies to the USFSA.

While it didn't happen for either men or pairs in Norway or Japan, it could have. And both were regularly on the world podium during the 90s, so it wasn't like ladies were all alone back then like dance is now.

As for why the us prefers ladies to dance: it's hard to undo a half century of preference in only a decade. I mean come on, look who they picked for dwts. It's so ingrained it's gonna take more than a few medals to overcome.

 

[wickedwitch]

While it didn't happen for either men or pairs in Norway or Japan, it could have. And both were regularly on the world podium during the 90s, so it wasn't like ladies were all alone back then like dance is now.

As for why the us prefers ladies to dance: it's hard to undo a half century of preference in only a decade. I mean come on, look who they picked for dwts. It's so ingrained it's gonna take more than a few medals to overcome.

Nathan could have medaled. And this is why the US prefers ladies, not the USFSA. If I were the USFSA, I would be promoting ice dancing and boasting about how great our ice dance teams are.

 

[Anyasnake]

I don't US get and Ice Dance, I don't. It's one of the best Nation out there by far. The fact that skaters like Shibutanis have to promote themselves without USFS help, that Meryl&Charlie didn't receive enough publicity in 2014 for their accomplishement (1st world title + 1st OGM for US Ice Dance), or that World SILVER medallists Maddie and Zach had a GoFundMe page for this Olympic season is baffling.

If I were USFS I would have switched since 2013 or 2014 the attention from Singles to Ice Dance, with hard politicking and massive promotion and publicity. That discipline is not rewarded enough IMO.
"With the exception of Ice Dance..." NO. Talk pages and pages about it, this is how it works. If you have talents, speak about them.
Hopefully they can learn, because if Maddie&Zach have to go to 2022 with a GoFundMe page or not enough exposure, I'll riot.

 

[berthesghost]

Nathan could have medaled. And this is why the US prefers ladies, not the USFSA. If I were the USFSA, I would be promoting ice dancing and boasting about how great our ice dance teams are.

Oh, ITA, but USFS does follow the market rather than influence the market, which one could argue is a misstep.

As for Nathan, I will wait. But thus far he’s been no Todd. Not even an Evan.

 

[overedge]

The lowest "lowest level" that Auxier discusses are competitive levels. What about looking at learn-to-skate? That's where almost all of your future champions are going to come from. If the grassroots levels aren't strong in developing/retaining skaters, that's going to hurt competitive skating down the line.

I wish too that he wouldn't frame success solely in terms of medals. There are other ways to measure success, e.g. numbers of participants, length of time that skaters stay in the sport, number of qualifiers for events (even if they don't win medals). And if he's worried about the three disciplines that in his opinion aren't doing well (men, ladies, pairs), why doesn't he look at the discipline that is "doing well" - dance - and see what's working there that could be used for the other disciplines?

 

[misskarne]

Exactly. I've tried to think of the root causes of why we haven't been competitive in men's and ladies and pairs, Nathan and Vincent [Zhou] aside, because they are incredible talents. That (jump deficiencies) is one reason.

I'm sorry, Mr Auxier? Who was it that came through for you at Worlds? It wasn't Vincent Zhou, that's for sure.

Jump deficiencies? Yes, one of those "incredible talents" you praise got seven URs at Worlds.

It was obvious five years ago that the quad was going to be getting more attention internationally and that you were going to need more than one in your free. But what did you do then....?!

AAAAAAAAAAAARGH.

 

[starrynight]

As an aside, dance is a hard discipline to get people to follow. Particularly if the nation is used to understanding singles with jumps. To be honest, I feel getting people invested in dance is more likely to lose fans in the long run because inevitably dance fans end up bitter over the obvious politking in the discipline. I certainly wouldn't want to be pegging the popularity of skating on it, it would be risky business I think.

 

[VGThuy]

I do think it was telling that ice dance became a huge hit on social media during the Olympics and the Shibs have certainly profited from their Olympic exposure. V/M also had an impact on American audiences.

 

[mollymgr]

Maybe he should have addressed the overhyping of a few good ones they see potential in and then driving them nuts with unnecessary pressure. So much of it, that they cannot perform to their fullest potential. I get that the USFS is in desperate need of seeing success in all its disciplines but maybe they should keep those desperate feelings to themselves and not pass it on to the athletes and drive them away from the sport.

 

[cbd1235]

He still seems to mention Wagner the minimum possible. She's the champion he never wanted, brushed under the rug.

Even if Wagner won more medals (on top of the most successful career for a US lady since Kwan), she wouldn't be touted as a US success story.

USFS hasn't even been good to their ice dancers, who are the most successful of all. Shame.

 

[misskarne]

He still seems to mention Wagner the minimum possible. She's the champion he never wanted, brushed under the rug.

Oh honey, the champion the USFS never wanted? It ain't Wagner. Five years ago it was obvious which way the international trend was heading. Five years ago they had a men's champion who could do more than one quad in the FS. The USFS response was to decide nothing he did could ever be good enough and to go in completely the opposite direction.

And then to add insult to injury, Auxier carries on about Zhou being an incredible talent as if it was Zhou who helped keep those three Worlds spots and not someone else.

 

[el henry]

Why was I not surprised at all when I clicked and saw the author was Phil Hersh?

Talk about two peas on a pod. medal medal medal quad quad quad let us kiss the ring of Nathan Chen. Smooch smooch smooch.

At least they would have had a good time talking to each other

 

[VGThuy]

And then to add insult to injury, Auxier carries on about Zhou being an incredible talent as if it was Zhou who helped keep those three Worlds spots and not someone else.

I don't think a positive comment about Zhou is an insult to Max. Praising one doesn't hurt the other and hurting one doesn't raise the other.

 

[Frida80]

Warning this is going to be long.

I don’t think I realized how painfully ignorant the leadership is at USFS until I read this interview. It’s so cringe worthy that I wonder if everyone that works there Has had their head buried in the sand since 2007. There are so many fundamental problems that he never even touches on and puts the blame in all the wrong places. They fact that he said that the Olympics as a wake up call was alarming. Things have been bad for a very long time. Here are some of the questions I’d love for him to answer.



Just two years again in 2016, Gracie was one of the top skaters. However after losing the World title in 2016, she suffered a mental episode and the loss of her ability to skate. What would you do to protect the mental health of skaters? Do you agree you put too much pressure on both her and Ashley to medal on home ice?


Congratulations on having a 2nd US lady finally being able to land a Triple Axel internationally. Both Russia and Japan have had multiple ladies land the Triple Axel internationally. What plans are in place to encourage more ladies to learn this jump as well as quads.

Both Ashley and Mirai have shown that mature skaters can improve themselves. Do you have plans to support such skaters instead of snubbing them for talented untested new skaters?

Many US ladies and some US men, including Vincent Zhou, have terrible problems with rotating their jumps. What plans do you have to help current skaters elimate these problems as well as prevent future skaters from having these issues in the future?

Bradie is one of the most consistent skaters you’ve had in years. With consistent competitors like the Russian, how do you plan to improve the level of consistency in US ladies?

There is a terrible tendency to inflate scores of favorites at nationals. This sort of politicking can lead developing skaters to focus on the things that may not make them competitive abroad. How will you change scoring so that it is more objective and indicative of how the skating will be scored internationally?

In 2016 at the US Championshps in the men’s competition, the winner fell on his only quad, the silver lost even though he had two quads, and the bronze lost even though he landed four clean quads. The next year, the bronze medalist was able to defeat the best skaters in the world because he developed his quads. It was clear years before that men’s skaters needed to prioritize learning quads. What plans do you have to ensure that the US is more focused on the way the world is developing?

Injuries are a terrible problem in US figure skating and manage to have derail a lot of careers. What plans do you have to prevent injuries?

There are dozens of junior B competitions that juniors on the International Selection Pool can be sent each year. Some of these are more competitive. Will you send more juniors to more competitive Junior B competitions to ensure they can handle the pressure of the JGP and JW?

For a decade USFS has had the tendency to hype a promising new comer and then pressure that new comer into winning competitions before they’ve had a chance to establish themselves. This always ends in disaster, with the skater caving to pressure. What actions to you plan to make to prevent this from happening in the future?

The current Olympic bronze medalist and the World’s bronze medalist were both trained right in Florida. What plans do you have to encourage some teams to train in Florida, and do you have plans learn from their training program?

Several skaters had equipment problems that hindered them this quad. What’s important is that these equipment failures be resolved as quickly as possible. What are new plans regarding equipment? For example training the technician to handle all models, all skaters having two back up pair of skates and blades, Having the manufacturer on call during competitions, specific guidelines on when a skate is too dangerous to use, etc.

Skaters are often forced into doing shows all summer long to help pay for their training. Are their any programs going to be put in place to increase funding for training so skaters can increase their summer training time?

Many skaters are struggling to improve their PCS scores. How do you plan to help them improve their skating skills and transitions as well as their choreography, interpretation and performance?

Bradie earned her Skate America Placement by winning 3 summer competition and summer interational competition by August. Are their any plans to make a formal method of earning interational placements like SA and CS competitions like that in the future?

How versed is USFS on the new proposals and how to you plan to address them in the future?



....

My battery is running out. I’ll stop here before my dissertation post gets even longer...

 

[Bellanca]

I have some many comments that I'll make when I have time. But this man is clearly in denial. There so many unaddressed issues.

One thing that could be helpful to USFS, and those affiliated with them, would be to acknowledge and address the denial they’ve been in for so many years. USFS arrogantly assumes and believes the U.S.A. should always be dominating the sport (i.e., the ladies’ discipline) on a continuous basis only to find themselves uncomfortably surprised and flummoxed when they aren’t… Only when they decide to shelve their ignorance and genuinely begin to comprehend how much the rest of the world has caught up, dominated and surpassed them, can USFS successfully start the attempt at getting the train back on the tracks.

 

[Aussie Willy]

I just think there have been better skaters out there other than the US skater. I know that sports people always look for scapegoats for why maybe a particular team or country doesn't do as well. But at the end of the day you can only work with what you have. And maybe others just have it better. Which what should be acknowledged than blaming the athletes or sporting administration for the situtation.

 

[her grace]

Interesting thoughts, @Frida80

Injuries are a terrible problem in US figure skating and manage to have derail a lot of careers. What plans do you have to prevent injuries?

This would be an important focus for the pairs program. The U.S. isn't succeeding and partially due to its best teams consistently suffering major injuries/illnesses.

Both Ashley and Mirai have shown that mature skaters can improve themselves. Do you have plans to support such skaters instead of snubbing them for talented untested new skaters?

Don't count on it.

There are dozens of junior B competitions that juniors on the International Selection Pool can be sent each year. Some of these are more competitive. Will you send more juniors to more competitive Junior B competitions to ensure they can handle the pressure of the JGP and JW?

They should do this, notably in ladies where there are very few JGP spots. It's hard to predict how skaters will do at Jr. Worlds when the average "body of work" for skaters in contention is so scant. The more competitions, the easier it is to see who is consistent and to prepare the skater for a big event.

For a decade USFS has had the tendency to hype a promising new comer and then pressure that new comer into winning competitions before they’ve had a chance to establish themselves. This always ends in disaster, with the skater caving to pressure. What actions to you plan to make to prevent this from happening in the future?

To me, this is getting worse, not better. Not only are skaters being hyped while they are yet unproven internationally--now you don't even have to beat your fellow national competitors before you're chosen for international assignments (cough, Cain/LeDuc over Castelli/Tran in 2017, cough). For example, it is obvious that Hanna Harrell (2018 J4) has been identified as a major talent. She was given 3 international assignments (1 fall Jr. B, 1 JGP, 1 spring Jr. B) this season after having finished no better than 6th as a novice the preceding season. Now that could be fine if other young skaters were getting the same amount of opportunities, but they're not. Kalyan (2017 N2 and 2018 J2) got one. Liu (2017 N4 and 2018 J1) got two. Cui (2017 N2 and 2018 J3) had one international before going to Jr. Worlds (2 total). Why is Harrell getting more international opportunities than Liu, Cui, and Kalyan--skaters who have consistently beaten her at the national level? What ever happened to demonstrating mastery of your program/beating your fellow competition before being chosen as the next one?

 

[misskarne]

I don't think a positive comment about Zhou is an insult to Max. Praising one doesn't hurt the other and hurting one doesn't raise the other.

Describing only Chen and Zhou as the "incredible talents" as if they're the only good men is absolutely an insult, especially when Zhou has actually got very little in the way of international results to back this up. If they really were such "incredible talents", why was anyone else needed to get the three spots?

In 2016 at the US Championshps in the men’s competition, the winner fell on his only quad, the silver lost even though he had two quads, and the bronze lost even though he landed four clean quads. The next year, the bronze medalist was able to defeat the best skaters in the world because he developed his quads. It was clear years before that men’s skaters needed to prioritize learning quads.

This result also should be putting a light on another concern that Auxier should have - that is, the fact that US Nationals tech panels have a tendency to overlook rotation errors, such as Rippon's 4Lz<< that was only called < or his 3Lz-3T< that was called clean. Either of those is called properly and you have a different result.

 

[overedge]

Describing only Chen and Zhou as the "incredible talents" as if they're the only good men is absolutely an insult, especially when Zhou has actually got very little in the way of international results to back this up. If they really were such "incredible talents", why was anyone else needed to get the three spots?

Since Max has announced that he's retiring, and since Auxier seems to be focusing on how US skating results can be improved, maybe Auxier was only mentioning skaters that are going to be competing for the US in the future.

 

[VGThuy]

NVM. Just do you and Vincent will do him.

 

[Coco]

I think scoring is too political at the developmental levels. No doubt parents are fine with their kids switching to other cheaper sports where results are more predictable. While the super talented kids are probably being kept in the sport, there could be some really good skaters who are leaving that might have pushed the super talented kids and forced them to compete better.

While it's good to identify young skaters / teams with potential, it's been done to the point that these kids are learning that your coach and your "presentation" count for more than consistency and average GOE.