USFS (outgoing) president Auxier expresses concern on state of US Figure Skating

[Frida80]

Interesting thoughts, @Frida80



This would be an important focus for the pairs program. The U.S. isn't succeeding and partially due to its best teams consistently suffering major injuries/illnesses.



Don't count on it.



They should do this, notably in ladies where there are very few JGP spots. It's hard to predict how skaters will do at Jr. Worlds when the average "body of work" for skaters in contention is so scant. The more competitions, the easier it is to see who is consistent and to prepare the skater for a big event.



To me, this is getting worse, not better. Not only are skaters being hyped while they are yet unproven internationally--now you don't even have to beat your fellow national competitors before you're chosen for international assignments (cough, Cain/LeDuc over Castelli/Tran in 2017, cough). For example, it is obvious that Hanna Harrell (2018 J4) has been identified as a major talent. She was given 3 international assignments (1 fall Jr. B, 1 JGP, 1 spring Jr. B) this season after having finished no better than 6th as a novice the preceding season. Now that could be fine if other young skaters were getting the same amount of opportunities, but they're not. Kalyan (2017 N2 and 2018 J3) got one. Liu (2017 N4 and 2018 J1) got two. Cui (2017 N2 and 2018 J3) had one international before going to Jr. Worlds (2 total). Why is Harrell getting more international opportunities than Liu, Cui, and Kalyan--skaters who have consistently beaten her at the national level? What ever happened to demonstrating mastery of your program/beating your fellow competition before being chosen as the next one?

Actually Hanna is being reward for her summer results and her sectional results. During the summer she placed second in the Aerial Challenge. Pooja and Ting actually didn’t score as higlynat their summer comps. Ting got a JGP because she was 2nd the nationals in 2017 and had a higher summer competition score than Pooja. At the time, Pooja had only scored 146.28 at Skate Detroit. While Hannah had scored 152.35 at Skate Dallas. Also she was the highest scoring American at Asian Open, in fifth place. At sectionals, Hannah scored a 189, the highest junior score all season.

So Hannah is being reward not by national placement but by her performance all season and her higher scores. It’s a change I like. Before, USFS would chose strictly on national placements instead of looking st current performance. We had a good chance to get our three spots back in 2016. But instead of taking Vivian Lee, our highest scoring junior all season who had a bad day at nationals. THey gave it to Tyler and Bradie, who didn’t score anywhere near where Vivian would. In April 2016,Vivian was still scoring highly.

Often at national, girls would peak but struggle to duplicate those results.

 

[Debbie S]

IWhy is Harrell getting more international opportunities than Liu, Cui, and Kalyan--skaters who have consistently beaten her at the national level? What ever happened to demonstrating mastery of your program/beating your fellow competition before being chosen as the next one?

Liu is not yet age-eligible for JGP so she can only compete in Advanced Novice internationally. There aren't that many of those and the fact that USFS sent her to 2 comps indicates a pretty strong investment, IMO. Cui was sent to the Bavarian Open (Advanced Novice) last February, along with Angelina Huang. They were the top 2 skaters in Novice, so it makes sense that they would be sent out last winter, with Harrell, who finished lower, not being sent until late summer/early fall. Harrell was given a JGP later in the season, and it's not a given she would have gotten one if more U.S. ladies had done well enough (i.e. medaled) at their first JGP to warrant a 2nd one. As for Kalyan, I'm not sure why she wasn't given a JGP at the start of the season but I assume it had to do with her summer comps/monitoring. Since she didn't compete on the JGP, she did not have the score mins for JW so Ting was sent instead (and skated amazingly for only her second Junior int'l and first JW).

I would expect Cui, Kalyan, and Harrell, assuming they monitor well over the summer, to be given JGPs at the start of the season. Whether they get a second will depend on how they do at their first.

Since Max has announced that he's retiring, and since Auxier seems to be focusing on how US skating results can be improved, maybe Auxier was only mentioning skaters that are going to be competing for the US in the future.

This. @misskarne the interview was about the future, Auxier was talking about future talent. Max has said he's retired with no regrets and he seems happy with his life. I doubt he's disagreeing with Auxier's assessment of up-and-coming U.S. men. How about you just be happy for Max and stop the rants here?

 

[Frida80]

Liu is not yet age-eligible for JGP so she can only compete in Advanced Novice internationally. There aren't that many of those and the fact that USFS sent her to 2 comps indicates a pretty strong investment, IMO. Cui was sent to the Bavarian Open (Advanced Novice) last February, along with Angelina Huang. They were the top 2 skaters in Novice, so it makes sense that they would be sent out last winter, with Harrell, who finished lower, not being sent until late summer/early fall. Harrell was given a JGP later in the season, and it's not a given she would have gotten one if more U.S. ladies had done well enough (i.e. medaled) at their first JGP to warrant a 2nd one. As for Kalyan, I'm not sure why she wasn't given a JGP at the start of the season but I assume it had to do with her summer comps/monitoring. Since she didn't compete on the JGP, she did not have the score mins for JW so Ting was sent instead (and skated amazingly for only her second Junior int'l and first JW).

I would expect Cui, Kalyan, and Harrell, assuming they monitor well over the summer, to be given JGPs at the start of the season. Whether they get a second will depend on how they do at their first.

This. @misskarne the interview was about the future, Auxier was talking about future talent. Max has said he's retired with no regrets and he seems happy with his life. I doubt he's disagreeing with Auxier's assessment of up-and-coming U.S. men. How about you just be happy for Max and stop the rants here?

I betting that Ting is pushed to go senior next year. With some politicking, she may get a GP slot.

 

[DimaToe]

Describing only Chen and Zhou as the "incredible talents" as if they're the only good men is absolutely an insult, especially when Zhou has actually got very little in the way of international results to back this up. If they really were such "incredible talents", why was anyone else needed to get the three spots?.

Yes because being a junior world champion and then 6th at the Olympics during your first season as a senior is “very little”

 

[Tavi]

Describing only Chen and Zhou as the "incredible talents" as if they're the only good men is absolutely an insult, especially when Zhou has actually got very little in the way of international results to back this up. If they really were such "incredible talents", why was anyone else needed to get the three spots?

This result also should be putting a light on another concern that Auxier should have - that is, the fact that US Nationals tech panels have a tendency to overlook rotation errors, such as Rippon's 4Lz<< that was only called < or his 3Lz-3T< that was called clean. Either of those is called properly and you have a different result.

Please stop making this all about Max.

Twenty one guys competed at Nats this year. Nineteen of those guys are not named Nathan or Vincent. Among other things, Alexei K won the JGP Final this year. Adam was top 10 at the Olympics and has recently brought a huge amount of attention to FS among new audiences. Jason was instrumental in ensuring we had 3 spots for the Olympics, and after failing to make the team, he pulled himself together and took bronze at 4CCs. Apparently, none of those things matter to Auxier. Do they not matter to you, either?

 

[Sylvia]

I don't think we fans can tell "what matters to Auxier" based on one Q&A conducted by Phil Hersh.

BTW, Anne Cammett was elected the new president of USFS yesterday at Governing Council and Sam Auxier is the new Chair of the International Committee and, theoretically, will have a lot of power re. the overall selection of athletes for international assignments. Let's see what happens...

 

[el henry]

I don't think we fans can tell "what matters to Auxier" based on one Q&A conducted by Phil Hersh.

BTW, Anne Cammett was elected the new president of USFS yesterday at Governing Council and Sam Auxier is the new Chair of the International Committee and, theoretically, will have a lot of power re. the overall selection of athletes for international assignments. Let's see what happens...

To be fair, I have read other (ETA: earlier, as in years ago earlier) interviews with Auxier, and actually listened to one (although also to be fair I have no idea when or where, so I can’t prove it, just call me Eteri) where he said essentially the same thing about men’s skating:

Quads quads quads medals medals medals quads and medals.

I remember them because as a fan of a certain skater, I was very aggravated that this skater’s gifts were ignored. And since Phil Hersh feels essentially the same way, I’m not surprised at the tone of this last interview.

I do have high hopes, based only on being hopeful and absolutely no knowledge, that Anne Cammett will be different.

 

[Dobre]

I think they missed Pooja. She was third in novices in 2017 above both Alysa and Hannah and second in juniors above Hannah this summer at Skate Detroit. (And a ways down the list but above Hannah again at the Broadmoor Open). Looking back, Pooja could have been given a junior B international. There were so few spots on the ladies JGP, you can see someone wasn't going to make it. But a minor international wouldn't have been out of line when you consider how well her peers from last year's novices were doing. Hannah was given a chance at the Asian Open, and that was long before sectionals. (I don't have the foggiest idea why they sent Hannah? It wasn't her results at Skate Detroit or the Broadmoor Open. I don't see her name on the junior ladies list from the Philadephia summer competition. So some event I'm not remembering?) Pooja, unfortunately, got her international too late for Junior Worlds. But she got it, and she did well with it. She should be on the radar now.

As for Kalyan, I'm not sure why she wasn't given a JGP at the start of the season but I assume it had to do with her summer comps/monitoring. Since she didn't compete on the JGP, she did not have the score mins for JW so Ting was sent instead (and skated amazingly for only her second Junior int'l and first JW).

Just for clarification, Ting would have gone to Junior Worlds regardless, once Starr pulled out. But Pooja could have been named to the team ahead of her.

 

[Frida80]

I think they missed Pooja. She was third in novices in 2017 above both Alysa and Hannah and second in juniors above Hannah this summer at Skate Detroit. (And a ways down the list but above Hannah again at the Broadmoor Open). Looking back, Pooja could have been given a junior B international. There were so few spots on the ladies JGP, you can see someone wasn't going to make it. But a minor international wouldn't have been out of line when you consider how well her peers from last year's novices were doing. Hannah was given a chance at the Asian Open, and that was long before sectionals. (I don't have the foggiest idea why they sent Hannah? It wasn't her results at Skate Detroit or the Broadmoor Open. I don't see her name on the junior ladies list from the Philadephia summer competition. So some event I'm not remembering?) Pooja, unfortunately, got her international too late for Junior Worlds. But she got it, and she did well with it. She should be on the radar now.



Just for clarification, Ting would have gone to Junior Worlds regardless, once Starr pulled out. But Pooja could have been named to the team ahead of her.

Here’s the link to Unseen skating. It list the highest scores of everyone from the same level from club competitions being held all over the country.

https://unseenskaters.wordpress.com/top-ten/

As you can see Hanna scored higher than Pooja. She also got second in the Aerial challenge. This is why Hanna got a JGP slot and Pooja didn’t.

 

[Dobre]

As you can see Hanna scored higher than Pooja.

Skate Dallas. I figured there had to be an event I was missing.

 

[wickedwitch]

Both Pooja and Hanna deserved international assignments. The USFSA's mistake wasn't giving Hanna assignments, it was failing to give Pooja at least a junior B. There's essentially an unlimited number of junior B spots, so she could have easily been given one.

 

[Frida80]

Both Pooja and Hanna deserved international assignments. The USFSA's mistake wasn't giving Hanna assignments, it was failing to give Pooja at least a junior B. There's essentially an unlimited number of junior B spots, so she could have easily been given one.

It’s completely true! They needed to send more juniors to junior Bs. They could’ve sent them to Tallin Trophy or Golden Bear! It was such a waste to see so many talented girls not get an assignment until after nationals.

 

[Frida80]

Skate Dallas. I figured there had to be an event I was missing.

She won it again this year at seniors. Her FS score is really promising.

 

[Debbie S]

I think they missed Pooja.

I don't think they missed Pooja. She competed and was presumably monitored at Skate Detroit. For whatever reason, her name was not added to the ISP - we have no idea what went on behind the scenes and there are lots of things us fans aren't privy to. None of the 2017 Novice Ladies were included in the ISP initially (I assumed it was b/c of the limited number of JGP ladies spots), but I believe all the medalists (I remember the pics) and possibly others were invited to the ISP singles camp in June (held in conjunction with the Broadmoor Open) and were given critiques/monitoring at one of the designated summer comps (Philly, Skate Detroit, Glacier Falls). At the end of the summer, Ting, Angelina, and Hanna were added to the ISP and Ting and Angelina were given spots at the first 2 JGPs (the U.S. was able to pick up an extra spot at the first 3 events). Whatever the case with Pooja in the fall, she had a great Nats and spring int'l and should be in the mix for a JGP this fall, assuming she monitors well at the camp and a summer comp.

 

[Aussie Willy]

Describing only Chen and Zhou as the "incredible talents" as if they're the only good men is absolutely an insult, especially when Zhou has actually got very little in the way of international results to back this up. If they really were such "incredible talents", why was anyone else needed to get the three spots?

Talent does not necessarily equal results. It can also be about the potential of a skater.

 

[Frida80]

I don't think they missed Pooja. She competed and was presumably monitored at Skate Detroit. For whatever reason, her name was not added to the ISP - we have no idea what went on behind the scenes and there are lots of things us fans aren't privy to. None of the 2017 Novice Ladies were included in the ISP initially (I assumed it was b/c of the limited number of JGP ladies spots), but I believe all the medalists (I remember the pics) and possibly others were invited to the ISP singles camp in June (held in conjunction with the Broadmoor Open) and were given critiques/monitoring at one of the designated summer comps (Philly, Skate Detroit, Glacier Falls). At the end of the summer, Ting, Angelina, and Hanna were added to the ISP and Ting and Angelina were given spots at the first 2 JGPs (the U.S. was able to pick up an extra spot at the first 3 events). Whatever the case with Pooja in the fall, she had a great Nats and spring int'l and should be in the mix for a JGP this fall, assuming she monitors well at the camp and a summer comp.

If I was to guess why Pooja wasn’t added, there seems to be a minimum score of 150 that all juniors have to earn that summer to be put on the ISP. She scored in the 140s and missed the cut.

 

[misskarne]

In all seriousness, Auxier complaining about technical deficiencies really does strike me as odd considering no-one seemed in a mood to correct the issue of lax or inconsistent calling at US Nationals. Not just the 2016 result; the whole 2014 ladies' debacle could have been avoided if the calling had been tighter. At Nationals this year the calling for the men's SP seemed wildly inconsistent - one of the lower-ranked men was called UR on a jump he did (which probably was), but someone a little higher-ranked - might have been Dolensky? - got full rotation credit on a quad that was clearly landed forward. But then they went and gave Vincent 4 URs in the FS which for US Nationals is way strict. If all of the calling was lax I'd be annoyed but it would still be more acceptable, or if all the calling was strict they'd be fine, but they seemed to swing crazily between Shin Amano and Loosey Goosey.

If you want to fix technical deficiencies on jumps, tightening up your national-level calling would be a great first step, I'd have thought.

 

[BittyBug]

@misskarne you need to keep in mind that the callers view things from a single angle, so if there are inconsistencies, it can be due to the location of the jumps around the rink.

 

[Willin]

Warning this is going to be long.

I don’t think I realized how painfully ignorant the leadership is at USFS until I read this interview. It’s so cringe worthy that I wonder if everyone that works there Has had their head buried in the sand since 2007. There are so many fundamental problems that he never even touches on and puts the blame in all the wrong places. They fact that he said that the Olympics as a wake up call was alarming. Things have been bad for a very long time. Here are some of the questions I’d love for him to answer.

Yeah, USFS leadership is so ignorant in so many ways - both of their incompetence and of their disorganization. While the central organization has a strong goal and ideals, they do a very poor idea of not only disseminating it to all clubs, but also implementing it at all clubs.

I think their biggest issue is how out of touch they are with everything but what's in their backyard. Yes, they have ideals, but they don't know the reality or care to know they reality. You see this a lot with synchro, but I'm sure it happens in singles as well. They don't care to find out why their ideas aren't implemented or aren't working, and therefore they aren't able to fix them.
For instance, they could ask why talented skaters in a certain region aren't moving to a top training rink or a top coach in their region. Maybe it's because of local club politics, full sessions at the top rink, a lack of coaches able to take on skaters, the skater is unable to find transportation to a rink, the rink is 90+ minutes away due to traffic (while when USFS looks at a non-commute hour it's 30 minutes), the rink/coach schedule doesn't match with what the skater can make, maybe the skater/family doesn't have the money to move, etc. etc. USFSA needs to look at this more or else their ideas will never succeed.

Injuries are a terrible problem in US figure skating and manage to have derail a lot of careers. What plans do you have to prevent injuries?

I think this is the least of USFS's worries. Skaters all over the world are having injury problems - this isn't a US-exclusive problem. It's a natural consequence of upping tech content. As long as they're not pulling an Eteri and forcing athletes to train when they're not ready to get back to it, I'd say nothing's wrong. Maybe they should tell skaters to do all training they medical team lets them do when injured, but it's not like there's much else they can do.

For a decade USFS has had the tendency to hype a promising new comer and then pressure that new comer into winning competitions before they’ve had a chance to establish themselves. This always ends in disaster, with the skater caving to pressure. What actions to you plan to make to prevent this from happening in the future?

With the new president (?) being a former marketing/ad person, I somehow don't anticipate this improving.
I think we just need to find skaters that thrive under the spotlight like Adam and Ashley. Starr Andrews seems to be someone that could do that, and same with Alyssa Liu and Ting Cui. Plenty of other countries put a lot more attention and pressure on their young skaters and they're just fine - maybe we need our young skaters under a brighter spotlight to get them used to it. Maybe not acting like they're the savior of USFS like they currently do, but maybe just giving them skating magazine features and social media boosts like sharing videos of their programs.

Several skaters had equipment problems that hindered them this quad. What’s important is that these equipment failures be resolved as quickly as possible. What are new plans regarding equipment? For example training the technician to handle all models, all skaters having two back up pair of skates and blades, Having the manufacturer on call during competitions, specific guidelines on when a skate is too dangerous to use, etc.

I don't think this is USFS's problem. I think this is the skater's problem. USFS's skate technicians are very well trained and familiar with pretty much every skate/equipment brand skaters use. The problem with Avanta was that they apparently didn't let anyone get trained in their methods. Usually the skate techs are also easily able to contact the manufacturers for help or advice - it's a small community, so they all know each other.

Skaters are often forced into doing shows all summer long to help pay for their training. Are their any programs going to be put in place to increase funding for training so skaters can increase their summer training time?

I was shocked to see how much money USFSA has stashed away in its funds vs how much it gives out for training. I saw somewhere that the Friends of Figure Skating Fund has an endowment of literally millions (I saw around $70 million somewhere, but I can't figure out where I saw that to double check) - and that's not the only fund USFS has. If they have that much money, why are they saying they can't fund athletes better?

Many skaters are struggling to improve their PCS scores. How do you plan to help them improve their skating skills and transitions as well as their choreography, interpretation and performance?

PCS are at least partially political and mostly subjective, and that means that to some extent you can't control them. The PCS system rewards consistency and politics, not what it's supposed to reward. Ashley got overscored, Alina is way overscored, Vincent's overscored. So while improving skating skills, training performance, and paying for choreography is important, there's no incentive to do it. If you see all the skaters getting rewarded for their poor skating skills because they can jump consistently and no one getting too harshly punished, why bother to spend the time and money to improve it?

I betting that Ting is pushed to go senior next year. With some politicking, she may get a GP slot.

Obviously there's exceptions to this, but North American Ladies tend to be late bloomers or at least have sustained success into their 20s as opposed to young wonder kids like Russia produces. I wish USFSA would notice that and let them stay in Juniors longer to develop longer. If they have long careers like most US ladies, there's no reason to push them to Senior as soon as they qualify for it.

 

[jlai]

I was shocked to see how much money USFSA has stashed away in its funds vs how much it gives out for training. I saw somewhere that the Friends of Figure Skating Fund has an endowment of literally millions (I saw around $70 million somewhere, but I can't figure out where I saw that to double check) - and that's not the only fund USFS has. If they have that much money, why are they saying they can't fund athletes better?


PCS are at least partially political and mostly subjective, and that means that to some extent you can't control them. The PCS system rewards consistency and politics, not what it's supposed to reward. Ashley got overscored, Alina is way overscored, Vincent's overscored. So while improving skating skills, training performance, and paying for choreography is important, there's no incentive to do it. If you see all the skaters getting rewarded for their poor skating skills because they can jump consistently and no one getting too harshly punished, why bother to spend the time and money to improve it?


Obviously there's exceptions to this, but North American Ladies tend to be late bloomers or at least have sustained success into their 20s as opposed to young wonder kids like Russia produces. I wish USFSA would notice that and let them stay in Juniors longer to develop longer. If they have long careers like most US ladies, there's no reason to push them to Senior as soon as they qualify for it.

First, the only US lady who has succeeded to medal at world was in her 20s, but most others, 20s or not, didn't medal. It's not as the older US ladies consistently did better.

RE: the endowment. Depending what strings are attached to the principal, perhaps they can only spend the interest.

 

[Jayar]

Oh honey, the champion the USFS never wanted? It ain't Wagner. Five years ago it was obvious which way the international trend was heading. Five years ago they had a men's champion who could do more than one quad in the FS. The USFS response was to decide nothing he did could ever be good enough and to go in completely the opposite direction.

I need to step in here and serve up some reality. Max was given many opportunities. The first time Max skated well enough to be selected for Worlds, he won the U.S. title. The next season he finished in 3rd place and was sent to the World Championships even though Team USA only had two spots-- he could have been on the Olympic team with higher Grades of Execution, but his elements were not as clean as Jason Brown's. In 2015, he again suffered from lower Grades of Execution, and in comparison to the three men who beat him, his PCS scores were accurate. In 2016, he rightly earned a silver medal and WC berth. In 2017 and 2018, he imploded and finished in 9th place. Even so, in 2017, he was named 2nd alternate for 4CCs and 3rd alternate for the WC, bypassing four athletes who beat him at nationals. In 2018, he was named to the 4CCs team outright, 3rd alternate for the Olympics and Worlds. How is this treating him poorly? I think that he was given opportunities that other skaters who beat him would have loved, and I also think that he understood that he earned these opportunities with his body of work. US Figure Skating gave him every opportunity they could.

 

[arakwafan2006]

First of all, it's going to take a LONG time to really produce strong pairs. Pairs skating should not be where singles skaters go to die or, make it to national's without consistent triples. Considering Marina Zueva is here with a ton of experience and Johnny Johns there full time, why haven't we sent top pairs to her? Just an example.

Also, coaches in the USA don't generally work together. That would be fine if they were like Frank Carrol producing complete skaters without gaping holes in their skating. That is not the case. First step is for the federation to take the discipline seriously. Then, I do think that we can build from there. It's going to take time though.

I like what Arutunian is doing...

 

[mag]

Also, coaches in the USA don't generally work together. That would be fine if they were like Frank Carrol producing complete skaters without gaping holes in their skating.

I am pretty sure Carrol doesn’t do it alone. There is a large coaching staff at his rink with jump, spin, stroking, and choreo specialists.

 

[arakwafan2006]

I am pretty sure Carrol doesn’t do it alone. There is a large coaching staff at his rink with jump, spin, stroking, and choreo specialists.

Did you read the article? It was talking about collaborative efforts of top level coaches unless i read it wrong. Rafael's model or what he's trying to achieve was contrasted by the American coaching philosophy.

 

[Willin]

First of all, it's going to take a LONG time to really produce strong pairs. Pairs skating should not be where singles skaters go to die or, make it to national's without consistent triples. Considering Marina Zueva is here with a ton of experience and Johnny Johns there full time, why haven't we sent top pairs to her? Just an example.

Also, coaches in the USA don't generally work together. That would be fine if they were like Frank Carrol producing complete skaters without gaping holes in their skating. That is not the case. First step is for the federation to take the discipline seriously. Then, I do think that we can build from there. It's going to take time though.

I like what Arutunian is doing...

This is one of the biggest problems in the US.

Frank does have a team that helps him, but none are household names or as famous as him. I have also heard from a coach he knows that he is the type to bring in specialists from literally all over the country if it's needed. He'll do anything to win, and he has the network to do it. But he's the exception.

I think ego's the biggest thing. You have the Tom Z and Kori Ade situation. One camp produces great jumpers and one camp produces skaters great at everything but jumping. If they combined their forces, the skaters would be amazing. Instead they (I'd suspect mainly Tom Z) maintains his petty feud with each other.

Location is another huge issue. In Raf's case, he's more than willing to send his skaters out to specialists as long as they ask him first. Ashley had issues with spins, so he sent her up to the Bay Area to work with a couple different specialists. BUT, and I think this is why he's proposing a central training center, his skaters can't see the specialists regularly. Both coaches Ashley worked with in the Bay Area have regular jobs and plenty of students at their home rinks and can't see Raf's students regularly. So any progress that was made with the specialist can't be easily reinforced throughout the season. Some coaches don't want to travel to students that can use their help because rinks charge so much in coaching fees.

Personality or teaching style is another big issue. A coach that likes highly structured training may not click with a coach that likes more free-flowing things. Two coaches may have specialties that overlap (eg. footwork) and then may tell the student conflicting information about that topic.


I think it would benefit USFSA to designate "High Level Training Centers" in each large metropolitan area with at least one ice sheet dedicated to figure skating and a stable of coaches. Ie. the new rink Raf wants to move to, San Jose in the Bay Area, World Arena in Colorado Springs, Canton or Bloomfield Hills in the Detroit/Ann Arbor area, Buffalo Grove in Chicago, etc. At these centers they could have the top coaches that are already there mentor up-and-coming coaches and lead training. USFSA could also see if they could work out a deal with the rinks to allow specialists to come in and coach on that ice every so often without paying the $50+/day drop-in or $300+/month coaching fee.

 

[el henry]

Did you read the article? It was talking about collaborative efforts of top level coaches unless i read it wrong. Rafael's model or what he's trying to achieve was contrasted by the American coaching philosophy.

Except it's not just Raf and his own brilliant ideas . As I recall, Kori was trying to get coaches to work together quite some time ago, and she has been fairly collaborative with coaches who are also collaborative.

And I admit I would trust the Raf idea a *lot* more if it didn't end with Raf as King of the Hill over four sheets of ice. Folks who love him will tell me I'm crazy, but I don't love him, and so there you have it.

Do coaches need to collaborate more and more extensively and share ideas and visions and all that good stuff? Yeah. Do I want a million safeguards in play to make sure it doesn't end up as a camp in the Texas woods with one coach in charge? You bet.

 

[GarrAargHrumph]

The U.S. seems to have lost its singles mojo when figures were phased out, with the Kwan / Cohen / Weir / Lysacek era probably being the last group of U.S. skaters who at least trained them. Moves in the field are generally viewed as something to get out of the way rather than something to master, and that is reflected in the ice time allocated to moves, which is minimal. I would be curious to know how much training time Canadian, Japanese and Russian skaters devote to basic skating skills compared to U.S. skaters.

I only know Russian skaters and coaches well out of these three, and I'll say they train what we'd call basic skills a lot, including elite skaters. You'll even see the elite Russian pairs training crossovers. They have these drills... If you're a skater and you have the opportunity to go to one of the on ice seminars that the Russian coaches give when they're over here, do go.

With that said, that doesn't mean that the US doesn't have things in their system that the Russians like. The Russian coaches I know have told me that, for example, they use some of what goes on in the lower levels of US ice dance to train their own ice dancers.

 

[Aussie Willy]

For instance, they could ask why talented skaters in a certain region aren't moving to a top training rink or a top coach in their region. Maybe it's because of local club politics, full sessions at the top rink, a lack of coaches able to take on skaters, the skater is unable to find transportation to a rink, the rink is 90+ minutes away due to traffic (while when USFS looks at a non-commute hour it's 30 minutes), the rink/coach schedule doesn't match with what the skater can make, maybe the skater/family doesn't have the money to move, etc. etc. USFSA needs to look at this more or else their ideas will never succeed.

Hmmm not sure why this would be USFSA's responsibility or that the things you mention should even be a consideration of them. For me those a things that an association should definitely keep out of.

I would think that they would be responsible for high level programs and training camps for their top athletes.

The issue of co-coaching is interesting. Over the years I have had coaches say to me they hate it and have even dropped students if the student decides to have lessons with someone else. I have a lot of respect for coaches who realise they are not the font of all information and that there are others out there that could be specialists in an area.

 

[Willin]

@Aussie Willy I'm not saying it's their responsibility to figure it out. I'm saying that they put policies in place or ask skaters to do certain things that are simply not feasible and then are surprised when it doesn't work. Therefore they need to understand those things: if they don't, they will continue to implement futile policies.

Most of the changes I've seen like this are in synchro, but the "Get Up" campaign is a great example of them putting something into place without understanding the reality. They assumed people were quitting because they hated losing. They didn't think that maybe cost, not having a good recreational skating system, lack of opportunities at smaller rinks, poor opportunities for skaters that start later (ie. 10-18), most competitions not having "Open" or "Test Track" options, lack of synchro/ToI teams to engage skaters in smaller markets, etc. etc.

When USFSA does consult people it's primarily larger clubs or top coaches/skaters. For instance, when making a change in synchro test levels they only consulted a couple of very large clubs in one section that regularly have teams on the National podiums. Those teams told USFSA that the change wouldn't affect them. USFSA didn't survey the other 95% of teams that ended up having to cut teams or shut down due to the rule change.

One thing I've learned from my management classes is that it's very rare that a change will work when it's made without input from the people it will actually affect. And USFSA doesn't care to get input from them.

 

[Debbie S]

@Aussie Willy I'm not saying it's their responsibility to figure it out. I'm saying that they put policies in place or ask skaters to do certain things that are simply not feasible and then are surprised when it doesn't work. Therefore they need to understand those things: if they don't, they will continue to implement futile policies.

As a former club board member, I agree that USFS tends to implement policies and expects clubs to enforce/explain them with not much support. When I was on the board, I was designated to collect/confirm coach credentialing each year - i.e. collect their insurance docs and verify completion of background check and CERs. USFS rules are they can't coach without them, but try explaining that to the 2 coaches in my club who decided they were special and shouldn't have to do that. And tell them they can't coach after July 1 until their docs are complete and deal with their 'you can't tell me what to do, I'm a coach and you're just some board member' attitude. A year after my term on the board ended, USFS/PSA instituted a $75 late fee for coaches not complete by July 1, so they finally took the consequences and enforcement out of clubs' hands.

And now they have SafeSport - very important concept, as long as info is communicated correctly and the rules are enforced...but USFS just sent clubs the docs with the requirement that all members sign it each year with their membership renewal and no explanation or info to the membership masses on what it is and what it all means (if they did, I missed it....I know there's stuff in the Gov Council docs but most members don't read that).

Issues with talent development, access to quality coaching, injury prevention and potential abuse are at least partly due to lack of communication with the grassroots level. I know USFS is a non-profit org, but I think they need to hire more membership staff who can function as liaisons to each region (they are trying to do something like this with Learn to Skate, don't know if it's actually improving anything) and have more personal communication with clubs and members.