Aussie Willy
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Times have changed from the days when you sat there with a tape trying to record off a CD and get it in the right spot to get a smooth edit.
US Figure Skating Music Policy
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Simone411
To Boldly Explore Figure Skating Around The World
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What you just asked about watching on YouTube. Yes, there are hundreds of channels with figure skating. I'll just say this. Those people who still have YouTube channels have been lucky.I've read this thread 3 times and I'm chalking this up to being loopy on cold meds .. but I don't understand. Does 'no streaming' mean that unless you watch a comp Live at the time it takes place, you just can never see it? So if I don't watch NHK from 2a-6a my time, I just never see it? We will still be able to watch all the comps at least online like we do now, right? I come home from work and watch the ISU feed later that night, that will still work, right?
Also means that you won't be able to just watch a bunch of single videos of skates on You Tube like you can now?
I was lucky for about 6 years. Then I was 'caught' so to speak. It didn't matter that most of my skating videos were from the 90's and the early 2000's. Sometimes, music changes hands especially with Warner Bros. When that happens, it raises the chances of the owner of the YouTube channel getting a copyright notice just like what happened with me.
One of the weirdest things that happened was when I first got my YouTube channel. I had uploaded Michelle's long program at 2003 Worlds in which, or course, her music was Aranjuez. I ended up with 35,000 views in just 2 months. People were thrilled about it. Most replying said they couldn't believe it because they were hearing the music again. In other words, that video had been muted for years regarding other people that had uploaded it on their YouTube channel.
What's even more weird is that particular video wasn't the one I got in trouble with. It was the interview before the 98 Olympics that I got in trouble with because of that music.
YukiNieve
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That is exactly the way Maya said (mind you she is not a native speaker), and the way I interpreted was not selling the ISU stocks to the investors per se (are they even on the market?) but they buy/sell the stocks of other companies to make profits - just like any investors do.
Capt. DeSoto
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Most skaters who put up videos of their routines aren't doing it for monetization, they're doing it just to share their performance. So, when they get a copyright strike for the audio, they just allow 3rd-party (rights holder) monetization. That would probably work 99.9% of the time, but if the music wasn't flagged by the labels' bots -- because perhaps it is independently licensed -- then I guess the artist could come after you for copyright infringement. In that case, I think it would be "treble damages". So, I'm not sure if that means that they'd sue for 3x the YouTube monetization revenue or if they could be so bold as to say it's 3x the cost of the album times the number of views.
Simone411
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Oh, I didn't start my YouTube channel for monetary purposes, and I'm not a skater. I made it to share all of the figure skating I had recorded through the years. I had started recording everything Figure Skating in 1992 when I got my first VCR. I knew there were figure skating events like the 95 Vail Skating Festival, Fox Rock n Roll, Improv-Ice, etc. that some fans had never seen. With Improv-Ice, I had shared a rare moment when Cindy Stuart had skated with Robin Cousins.
Maybe I've misunderstood you. A lot of fans of figure skating have YouTube channels where they simply want to share their skating videos.
Edited because I taped the 95 Vail Skating Festival. Not the 98 Vail Skating Festival. Sorry.
overedge
Mayor of Carrot City
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@Simone411 if it was an interview that YouTube issued the warning for, it might have been because of the broadcast licensing rights for the interview, not for the music that was played during the interview.
purple skates
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Word on the Facebook group street from someone I believe to be in the know is that this was supposed to be of an informative nature (hey - there’s this database for allowed music please use it), so no penalties for skaters not in compliance. Yet.
But the ban on video and streaming from anyone not named Peacock, that’s real starting now.
But the ban on video and streaming from anyone not named Peacock, that’s real starting now.
Simone411
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In this case, YouTube emailed me and said it was the music. They informed me that they deleted the video because of the copyright infringement that Warner Bros. had. They even blocked me from uploading anymore videos. I was still able to get to my channel, but YouTube informed me that I had to go to "Copyright school".
That was the first time I ever heard of "Copyright school". They also informed me that if it happened again, they would delete my account. I decided it wasn't worth it. YouTube used to just mute the video or the music from the video. It happened once with me with a video of Yuka Sato from the 95 Vail Skating Festival. They muted the music out of that video but allowed it to still be on my channel. It's not much fun watching without the music, but that's what YouTube did.
Yes, I just saw a response to someone's FB post (you are friends with M.G., right?) quoting an email reply from USFS that the prohibition is on streaming and distribution/sale of performances with music but no penalties for skaters in the coming season, just the caveat that if a skater uses unlicensed music and gets sued, it's not USFS' problem. So basically, this rule is about covering USFS' arse.
purple skates
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If you are talking about who I think you are, yes, but it wasn’t them. This post was on one of the adult skating groups (I can’t remember which one) from a current or former adult committee member - I don’t feel comfortable sharing initials here.
ETA I agree about ass covering.
Oh no, I wasn't asking about who posted, just letting you know there was an actual USFS communication posted, if you wanted to see it.
And really, this is yet another example of the total lack of communication skills on the part of USFS. All of this should be communicated clearly to all skaters in addition to coaches and club officers, and people shouldn't have to read FB posts to decipher what's actually happening.
BittyBug
Childless Cat Lady
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Ok, her terminology is off (understandably if she's not a native speaker). To go to the market is to try to raise funding. Investing is just as you said - buying and selling - but that supposes that the ISU has anything to invest (I have never reviewed their finances).
purple skates
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Agreed. And to drop this when memberships are being renewed. I have no official communication as a member on this, just what Facebook tells me.
Aussie Willy
Living in the land under the land down under
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Not sure if this has been raised but how do other countries manage this? Or are other countries setting up policies around this?
I would have thought the ISU should be issuing some guidelines on this as well. It would certainly be more efficient and consistent to come up with a cohesive policy that applies to it's members.
I would have thought the ISU should be issuing some guidelines on this as well. It would certainly be more efficient and consistent to come up with a cohesive policy that applies to it's members.
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Frau Muller
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Lowest of the low earn points. Figure skating should remain a high-class sport/art.
This is why I watched gymnastics years ago. Absolutely not the case now.
- YouTube
Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
www.youtube.com
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overedge
Mayor of Carrot City
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Not just guidelines - the ISU has the host broadcaster stream and its online streams, and skaters from different countries are using music from all over the world that's probably registered with many different publishers and royalty collectors. The ISU should get on this issue for its own sake.
YukiNieve
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Coincidentally, an online article was published lately where Tatsuki Machida, a former competitive Japanese skater (5th at Sochi Olympic Games & 2nd at 2014 Worlds), talks about the copyright issues for music and figure skating with a lawyer who specializes in copyright issues for music. Tatsuki got Ph.D. in Sports Science and is an associate professor now, and the topic of his thesis was the relationship between figure skating and the copyright for music. The article is in Japanese, but you can machine-translate if you'd like to have an idea for the entire talk.
橋本阿友子さん×町田樹さん特別対談 フィギュアスケートと音楽著作権の関係を語る！ #1
ONTOMOの連載「インターネットと音楽についての法律相談室」「ミュンヘンからの音楽だより」でおなじみの弁護士・橋本阿友子さんと、元フィギュアスケートオリンピック選手でアーティステ...
A few quotes about Tatsuki's comments:
As a matter of fact, the rules set forth by the International Skating Union (Constitution and General Regulations, Rule 131: Entries General-b) state that the permission of the copyright holder must be obtained for any music used. In other words, the copyright process is left to the individual skater. In practice, however, it is nearly impossible for an individual to handle copyrights.
In recent years, organizers of competitions and ice shows often obtain permission for performance rights on behalf of the skaters through copyright management companies such as JASRAC (Japanes Society for Rights of Authors, Composers and Publishers). Strictly speaking, however, it is necessary to confirm with the copyright holder or rights management company if the music may be used before creating a program with a choreographer.
However, in the figure skating world, processing for the rights on music copyright required at this initial stage is not executed in most cases.
---
(If the music copyright for the song is managed by an organization such as JASRAC, you can use the song by paying them a certain royalty fee; otherwise you have to find the rights holder and negotiate directly with them to obtain permission).
There is no way a single individual can handle such process about the rights on music copyright. The International Skating Union decided to allow the use of vocal music in 2014 without educating their members or establishing rules regarding how to handle music copyright. Since then, more and more contemporary music have been used, and figure skaters are increasingly at risk of being sued for copyright infringement.
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Aussie Willy
Living in the land under the land down under
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@YukiNieve Thank you for your post. It really is an area that needs more awareness.
MacMadame
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It's pretty common for organizations to have investment accounts. They aren't actively trading necessarily. Just putting reserves and other excess money not being spent on day-to-day in a place that lets it grow.
I'd be surprised if the ISU is actively trading on the market. It's risky. And I would not recommend USFS do it.
ice coverage
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As for the ISU, the issue of music rights already has been on its radar.
From my general recollection of the recent ISU Congress streaming, President Kim basically acknowledged (I am paraphrasing) that it is a difficult issue that needs more work. Although he mentioned ClicknClear, I do not think he was saying that it was a definitive solution. Sorry that I don't have a time-stamp at my fingertips.
Bits found via quick Googling:
Background from ISU Communication No. 1628 (which has continued validity as confirmed at 2024 ISU Congress) and its attached Declaration for Competitors and Officials entering ISU Events:
From my general recollection of the recent ISU Congress streaming, President Kim basically acknowledged (I am paraphrasing) that it is a difficult issue that needs more work. Although he mentioned ClicknClear, I do not think he was saying that it was a definitive solution. Sorry that I don't have a time-stamp at my fingertips.
Bits found via quick Googling:
ISU Council discussed "a potential approach to facilitate music rights clearance" at meetings (at least) in Jun 2023 and Oct 2023.
In Nov 2023: "The Council confirmed that the ISU will cooperate with the company ClicknClear in relation to clearing music rights for Skaters. A first cooperation will take place for the Winter Youth Olympic Games 2024."
Background from ISU Communication No. 1628 (which has continued validity as confirmed at 2024 ISU Congress) and its attached Declaration for Competitors and Officials entering ISU Events:
"All Figure Skating competitors and their Members shall: (i) certify and warrant that the music and choreography presented and used by the competitor have been fully cleared and authorized for public use and television and other media exhibition broadcast and re-broadcast throughout the world without further clearances or payments of any kind on the part of the ISU, the organizing Member, the Organizing Committee or the relevant television networks or broadcasters being required."
ETA:
I found that the ClicknClear site's FAQ helped me to start grasping some of the complexities of music rights.
https://www.clicknclear.com/faqs
https://www.clicknclear.com/faqs
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skatfan
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Listen, it’s not to my own personal taste, but gymnastics is riding high while figure skating can barely keep going. I’d rather have a sport thriving in a generation than die on “high-class” hill which simply means classical.Lowest of the low earn points. Figure skating should remain a high-class sport/art.
This is why I watched gymnastics years ago. Absolutely not the case now.
- YouTube
Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
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LilJen
Reaching out with my hand sensitively
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I worked in publishing for many years. Correct understanding of copyright, licensing, and usage can get quite complicated. Why USFS just expects skaters and coaches to figure it out is beyond me.Coincidentally, an online article was published lately where Tatsuki Machida, a former competitive Japanese skater (5th at Sochi Olympic Games & 2nd at 2014 Worlds), talks about the copyright issues for music and figure skating with a lawyer who specializes in copyright issues for music. Tatsuki got Ph.D. in Sports Science and is an associate professor now, and the topic of his thesis was the relationship between figure skating and the copyright for music. The article is in Japanese, but you can machine-translate if you'd like to have an idea for the entire talk.
橋本阿友子さん×町田樹さん特別対談 フィギュアスケートと音楽著作権の関係を語る！ #1
ONTOMOの連載「インターネットと音楽についての法律相談室」「ミュンヘンからの音楽だより」でおなじみの弁護士・橋本阿友子さんと、元フィギュアスケートオリンピック選手でアーティステ...ontomo-mag.com
A few quotes about Tatsuki's comments:
As a matter of fact, the rules set forth by the International Skating Union (Constitution and General Regulations, Rule 131: Entries General-b) state that the permission of the copyright holder must be obtained for any music used. In other words, the copyright process is left to the individual skater. In practice, however, it is nearly impossible for an individual to handle copyrights.
In recent years, organizers of competitions and ice shows often obtain permission for performance rights on behalf of the skaters through copyright management companies such as JASRAC (Japanes Society for Rights of Authors, Composers and Publishers). Strictly speaking, however, it is necessary to confirm with the copyright holder or rights management company if the music may be used before creating a program with a choreographer.
However, in the figure skating world, processing for the rights on music copyright required at this initial stage is not executed in most cases.
---
(If the music copyright for the song is managed by an organization such as JASRAC, you can use the song by paying them a certain royalty fee; otherwise you have to find the rights holder and negotiate directly with them to obtain permission).
There is no way a single individual can handle such process about the rights on music copyright. The International Skating Union decided to allow the use of vocal music in 2014 without educating their members or establishing rules regarding how to handle music copyright. Since then, more and more contemporary music have been used, and figure skaters are increasingly at risk of being sued for copyright infringement.
Frau Muller
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OLGA all the way. Just compare this to the Beyoncé ugliness…
Families should teach kids to appreciate beauty in music, literature, clothing, physiques, etc. Who cares about numbers?
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BittyBug
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I spent many years in financial services and used to be FINRA licensed, so I think I have a reasonable understanding of investment terms and strategies. The decision of whether to invest one's assets in anything other than cash-equivalents should consider the time horizon in which one is likely to need to tap into those assets and the ability of one to absorb principal losses. Got money you likely won't need for at least several years? Invest it. Don't have enough money to cover unanticipated expenses? Park your money in a cash equivalent.
Your comments seem to refer to the investment style (passive vs. active), rather than investing itself, which was the basis of my comments. But choosing to invest one's money in a passively-managed index fund is still an active choice, and a prudent investor should continue to actively monitor those funds to make sure the risk associated with the underlying indices is still appropriate for one's circumstances.
And finally, US Figure Skating is absolutely actively managing its endowment. Given the scale of their assets (~$100M), it would be irresponsible to do otherwise.
They can lose a LOT of money for knowingly violating intellectual property laws. Unfortunately, the licensing laws have not kept up with technology. Music licensing for recordings of athletic performances has always been a freaking mess.
Really? Calling Beyonce ugly? "Teaching kids to appreciate beauty in ...physiques"?
Simone411
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Okay, I found two different sites that deal with figure skating music several years ago. I've had links for those two sites in my skating directory for years.
The first one is called Sk8tunes: Quality Figure Skating Music Mixes. The owner charges $25 per minute of music and includes 2 CDs.
This is what the owner says about the music.
So, the owner is insisting that the figure skater legally own the music they're asking to remix. The owner also goes further in explaining that he/she doesn't understand how skating music editing services can legally and ethically get away with selling pre-cut mixes. They buy one CD and then resell the mix many times over, and it's not fair to the artist.
The other site I found is called Digital Music Services
Best DJs | Photo Booths | Officiants | Lafayette, LA | Digital Music Services
Serving All Of Louisiana!
Now this is what the owners explain about music editing.
So both of the companies/owners are protecting themselves and explaining about copyright laws.
Now, I don't know how many skaters actually use these types of services, but the owners have explained that the skater must legally own the music or purchased it legally, and this is to protect their backs.
Edited to correct mistake
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just tuned in
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Maybe in the future there could be a QR code that comes on the screen with each performance streamed, and if you want to hear the music, you click on it and pay something like three cents.
Frau Muller
From Puerto Rico…With Love! Not LatinX!
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I didn’t call Beyoncé ugly. She is not. Her crazy outfit, worn by Chiles…ahum…
MacMadame
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I think we are saying the same thing only you are using the precise industry terminology and I am describing it from a layperson's perspective.
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