Unpopular Opinions

Fiero425

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2,322
Unpopular Opinion: I don't like Jason Brown's exaggerated skating presentation.

He overdoes his presentation since his jumping ability is limited! He's lucky to have a weak QUAD when other skaters are performing multiple Quads! It's an American thing going back decades! It worked w/ Todd Eldridge! :cautious: :40beers::yawn::scream::rolleyes:
 

Fiero425

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Todd Eldredge overdid his presentation? :confused:

It's not a slight! Todd was just making up for his lack of a quad! His thing was a huge 3-A & if he failed, he was done as in '97-98, never medally at the Olympics even though a favorite! He allowed a clown, P. Candeloro to outperform him; '94 Lillihammer & '98 Nagano to take Bronze! It's all a matter of opinion! Never a fan of Todd's! He was undeservedly elevated to #1 in the US a couple times over a more skilled jumper in Timothy Goebel; esp. 2002 SLC Games! :cautious: :40beers::yawn::scream:
 

SkateFanBerlin

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There should be a ceiling on the length of ice dancer competative careers. They don`t have the same level of injuries as the other disciplines and careers go on for ever. I think its a bummer for younger teams to rarely get to worlds or Europeans. I like them but C/B have been at it since the throw double toe.
 

tony

Throwing the (rule)book at them
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There should be a ceiling on the length of ice dancer competative careers. They don`t have the same level of injuries as the other disciplines and careers go on for ever. I think its a bummer for younger teams to rarely get to worlds or Europeans. I like them but C/B have been at it since the throw double toe.
If C/B hadn’t been at Worlds, the US would’ve likely been down to two spots as it is- remember, one of those young teams had a big mistake in the RD and didn’t qualify. So who are they keeping spots from?
 

SkateFanBerlin

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If C/B hadn’t been at Worlds, the US would’ve likely been down to two spots as it is- remember, one of those young teams had a big mistake in the RD and didn’t qualify. So who are they keeping spots from?
Not talking specific situations, only a general problem as I see it.
 

orbitz

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10,516
There should be a ceiling on the length of ice dancer competative careers. They don`t have the same level of injuries as the other disciplines and careers go on for ever. I think its a bummer for younger teams to rarely get to worlds or Europeans. I like them but C/B have been at it since the throw double toe.

You can make the same argument about any skater who seems to have hung around "forever", i.e. like Jason Brown. I don't believe in forced retirement for any athlete. Compete as long you want and able to until you want to retire.
 

Vagabond

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I believe in forced retirement for Brendan Kerry, Morgan Cipres, and Nikolaj Soerensen. I hope that that is not an unpopular opinion, but I would rather be correct than to go with the flow.

Oh, and I wouldn't mind if Haein Lee and Young You never competed again either, even though I did like their skating.
 

Andora

Skating season ends as baseball season begins
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Not talking specific situations, only a general problem as I see it.
This comes up periodically, but I find it's when it involves skaters people don't like.

Where's this about the Italians? They're old and not exactly improving by leaps and bounds.

I think this should apply to Piper & Paul, but their fans tend to push back at that.
 

VGThuy

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41,100
I think American ice dance before the Russian coaching is severely underrated. This is only unpopular insofar that it seems people think American ice dance didn’t exist until the early 2000s when the fruits of the Russian coaches’ labor, such as Igor Sphilband, Nikolai Morosov, etc., started to become fully realized.
 
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Private Citizen

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I think American ice dance before the Russian coaching is severely underrated. This is only unpopular insofar that it seems people think American ice dance didn’t exist until the early 2000s with the fruits of the Russian coaches’ labor, such as Igor Sphilband, Nikolai Morosov, etc., started to become fully realized.

Interesting opinion! Any particular ice dancers / programs you're thinking of?

Aside from Blumberg and Seibert, I'm struggling to think of anything too memorable.
 

VGThuy

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Interesting opinion! Any particular ice dancers / programs you're thinking of?

Aside from Blumberg and Seibert, I'm struggling to think of anything too memorable.
Ooh, thanks for giving me an opportunity to share some videos of teams I’ve enjoyed discovering.

As @Tesla mentioned, Punsalan/Swallow’s race car FD during the 1990-1991 season is a stand out, choreographed by Renee Roca and Gorsha Sur, whom I will discuss later:


I also really liked Wynne/Druar’s tap dance FD at 1990 Worlds:


Wynne/Druar with Klimova/Ponomarenko also had the best Charleston OSP at 1989 Worlds too, and they even placed ahead of the Duchesnays in that portion too.

Fox/Dalley’s 1982 Worlds FD was pretty to watch because they moved so elegantly: https://youtu.be/pDfGJxonzjI?si=dfilYLpraUdhKmzz

I also like watching O’Connor/Millns’ 1976 Olympic bronze medal winning FD just for Dick Button’s commentary, which provides a lot of what the perspective was regarding Russian vs. “Western style” ice dance:


On a similar note, in a 1993 Nationals fluff piece, Renee Roca makes an interesting comment when Gorsha Sur was asked why did he decide to adopt the American technique instead of having Renee learn the Russian style:


I liked their Duke Ellington program above as well. Speaking of Renee Roca, she was really a beautiful ice dancer. This performance with Donald Adair really shows off her body line and movement well. The choreography wasn’t very good and Button makes some criticisms of their open skating, but she moves well:


I’m not saying the Russian ice dance teams didn’t deserve to win (I thought the Russians should have swept 1992 Albertville), but I think watching how ice dance judges started ONLY rewarding Russian style ice dance, which got worse after the Soviet break up took ice dance in a direction it never recovered from. I’m also one of those who thought Klimova/Ponomarenko were better before they got Tarasova-fied after 1991 Worlds. Maybe that’s a huge reason why I.Am became so popular after like 25 years of Russian technique dominance, although a lot of things imbedded in the Russian ice dance tradition has been institutionalized with IJS judging.

Now, for a good contrast of the top American teams back in 1984:

Here’s Spitz/Gregory’s OSP: https://youtu.be/_K_ChEPi8Zs?si=I7BLZHx-x0MEcuPV

Now, here’s Blumberg/Seibert’s OSP:

You can tell Blumberg/Seibert are much better skaters and are capable of more intricacy and difficulty, but I’m not sure about that choreography for a Paso. I found Spitz/Gregory’s OSP more interesting to watch even with the mistake and lesser skill.

For a bonus: Spitz/Gregory’s FD, opening with “Paint it Black” and ending with “When the Saints Go Marching In”:


I thought this was a fun program.

Not sure if this was intentional, but I always liked that Davis/White won Olympic gold with a Scherezade FD, almost as if it was a homage to Blumberg/Seibert’s 1984 FD.
 
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Jammers

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There should be a ceiling on the length of ice dancer competative careers. They don`t have the same level of injuries as the other disciplines and careers go on for ever. I think its a bummer for younger teams to rarely get to worlds or Europeans. I like them but C/B have been at it since the throw double toe.
I guess 4 Olympics isn't enough for Evan. You have to admire the "If i can't beat the best teams around i'll just wait until they all retire" mentality.
 

vireo

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escaflowne9282

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New unpopular opinion. As wonderful and comprehensive as VGThuy 's post was, I realize that I greatly dislike most American ice dance.

Although they are OGM -D&W are the worst for me . To me , they had no grace, rhythm, timing or musicality. They had sloppy broken lines, flat feet, meh edge quality at times, no chemistry ,and soulless eyes with perpetual plastic grins. I recognize their difficulty and technique were at a high level but I definitely was not a fan.

Give me H&D and C&B any day.

I hate Coldplay to the point where I have cursed out their music in public (and probably scared people :shuffle: ) and this caused me to unfairly write off the Shibutanis . I recently rewatched their Coppelia and Blue Danube waltzes and I love Maia's use of her upper body ,her expression and carriage. I definitely think Zueva undesold them, but the talent is so much more clear to me looking back.

I can barely make it through any current skating.
 
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VGThuy

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41,100
New unpopular opinion. As wonderful and comprehensive as VGThuy 's post was, I realize that I greatly dislike most American ice dance.

Although they are OGM -D&W are the worst for me . To me , they had no grace, rhythm, timing or musicality. They had sloppy broken lines, flat feet, meh edge quality at times, no chemistry ,and soulless eyes with perpetual plastic grins. I recognize their difficulty and technique was at a high level but I definitely was not a fan.

Give me H&D and C&B any day.

I hate Coldplay to the point where I have cursed out their music in public (and probably scared people :shuffle: ) and this caused me to unfairly write off the Shibutanis . I recently rewatched their Coppelia and Blue Danube waltzes and I love Maia's use of her upper body ,her expression and carriage. I definitely think Zueva undesold them, but the talent is so much more clear to me looking back.

I can barely make it through any current skating.
I agree with you on Davis/White. That said, I remember seeing D/W live once and I was surprised how much my eyes were glued on Charlie. I realized that he was actually a great ice dancer. To me, Meryl was who I thought pushed the qualities you listed to the forefront. Marina really can’t choreograph as her dance/movement vocabulary is limited. I do think she’s probably good at editing and polishing a program someone else, who can choreograph, created though. Emphasis on “probably”.
 

On My Own

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I only have one thing to add to the D/W discussion, it's these two people claiming to be trained as judges/knowing judges saying they were equal/superior to V/M - and as someone who just doesn't care for V/M's skating, I'd found the notion laughable.


The tweet linked down there shows how much better Ilyinikh and Pechalat were than Davis, and of course Virtue was much better.

White was indeed good. Not close to "best technical skater" IMO, but here I will give I never thought that was Moir either anyway.
 
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VGThuy

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I only have one thing to add to the D/W discussion, it's these two people claiming to be trained as judges/knowing judges say they were equal/superior to V/M - and as someone who just doesn't care for V/M's skating, I'd found the notion laughable.


The tweet linked down there shows how much better Ilyinikh and Pechalat were than Davis, and of course Virtue was much better.

White was indeed good. Not close to "best technical skater" IMO, but here I will give I never thought that was Moir either anyway.
Thank you for sharing that thread. It led me to this wonderful video comparing the midline no-touch step sequences where Davis/White, Ilinykh/Katsalapov, Pechelat/Bourzat, and the Shibs did the same steps.


Comparing D/W’s quality with the others was very :eek:, and not in a way that is favorable to D/W.
 

skatfan

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Thank you for sharing that thread. It led me to this wonderful video comparing the midline no-touch step sequences where Davis/White, Ilinykh/Katsalapov, Pechelat/Bourzat, and the Shibs did the same steps.


Comparing D/W’s quality with the others was very :eek:, and not in a way that is favorable to D/W.
I always thought Davis and White biffed the short whatever it was called at the Olympics compared to US Nationals. (I knew/know nothing about Dance so that’s saying something). That they were in first was a gift.
 

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